Havent seen a thread discussing Metal shows.


I get head bangers ball(Mt v 2) which isn't all that bad. It's the only thing decent coming on any of the Mt v stations. They actually play some decent videos of bands.

Vh1 documentaries about metal bands can be pretty good. Especially the documentary they had on about the history/present form of metal.

As for t-minus rock that show is completely awful. A bunch of screamo videos that they play over and over again.

__________________

In Canada we have a half hour out of every week for "Much Loud" on Much Music. It's usually pretty terrible. Sometimes there is a gem though.

__________________

Has anyone ever heard of something along the lines of Extreme or Underground Metal TV. I believe I read about it once upon a day and was really wanting to check it out. Anyone know?

__________________

we have one called Alta Tensão (High Tension). 30 minutes. usually starts with some of the absolute gayest metalcore bands, then 2 songs by decent to excellent bands (i've seen Behemoth, Nile, God Dethroned, Morbid Angel, Dragonforce, Rhapsody, etc) and it ends with some classic, like Sodom, Judas Priest, Watchtower, Thin Lizzy, Savatage, etc.

That is exactly how the lineup is on the show I mentioned.

__________________

Head Bangers Ball last about three hours.(10-12 on Saturday night) They play 2 old school videos during the line up as well. After that no more metal on Mt v 2 until next Saturday.

Edit:
How in hell do they even play enough videos in a half hour? Commercial free?

__________________

no, how have ever seen that queer show uranium, they play 2 songs before every commercial. sometime they just show that hot emo chick (dont no her name because im always staring at her boobs wondering what color her nips are.)

Juliya or something. She is hot, but Uranium got old too fast.

So did headbanger's ball. It was good, but eventually, all they started showing was all Metalcore or Nu-metal. With the occasional good metal video thrown in once in a while.

__________________

there's Redemption TV in the UK which is mostly goth/emo/hardcore bands playing live. there was Cryptopsy once though.

overall it's pretty bad lol.

__________________

Yea, the best band I've seen on it is Municipal Waste.

A while back there used to be '120 Metal Minutes' on MTV2 (once a month I think it was) but I can't remember anything that was played apart from Behemoth once. Sometimes they'd play videos without saying who it was.

yea i saw 120 minutes. now its something like 120 alternative minutes, and its really alternative dance/rock/electronic stuff.

i remember cephalic carnage on it and some dutch death metal band, i think it was Gorefest, thats about it.

Scuzz and Kerrang! are just a joke

__________________

I haven't watched telly in a bit, but I used to get Headbangers Ball on MTV2 every other Saturday if I was lucky. But it was never the official program, just metal videos back to back for 2 hours. Even then it would just be Slipknot and Trivium and the like, with the occasional showing of Skull Full Of Maggots, or the latest CoF video.

__________________

When Scuzz first started out, it was pretty good, but now its just laughable- although i haven't watched it in over a year.

__________________

I've never had scuzz, but the last time I saw it round a friends, it just had metalcore on it. Although my friend told me he saw Enshrined by Grace on there once.

__________________

Watchtower has a music video? For what song(s)?

__________________

Looking at the post so far seems, there aren't any real good ones left. I know we have some people from Australia here, what is the name of the music show there that most real metal bands refuse to get on?(It's like a joke to be on it)

Edit :
More like half the godamn continent of Australia.

Edit:
Happy?

__________________

Some is an understatement. More like half the godamn continent.

__________________

hrmmm


who really wants to watch metal videos on tv anyways? boring, unless its live

__________________

Yeah, at a live show you can really get into it and stand motionless against the wall with your arms folded, nodding your head ever so slightly.

Music on TV is lame unless it's some genuine event that people can't actually go to. Even still, with the freedom to put the camera anywhere and place the viewer virtually anywhere in relation to the performer, we get a lot of boring bullshit in the way TV concerts go. Most music videos for metal bands suck as well, since they rarely can afford/interest the best directors.

haha, owned. Well, I'm sure Tranz doesn't want to fuck up his back in a pit though.

__________________

I was making fun of the arms-folded people in general. Tranny at least has a reasonable excuse, which does not hold for the majority.

haha well forgive me please for wanting to fucking chill and enjoying seeing a band perform.

i used to go crazy at every show..then after a while i just started relaxing a bit more. i still get in there for some shows, but lately i've had my camera on me most of the time.. which is not something to take into the pit..or ask someone i don't know to hold.

actually i normally get front row. i have never moshed and i never will mosh, its not for me.

live videos show you the band usually more clearly, with different production and sometimes different nuances in the songs. music videos almost always suck

__________________

Most of the time they do. However, there always is the good one. I forget that some of you are metal elitist sometime .

__________________

why wouldn't someone want to see a video from a band they like?? sure not all videos are great..but videos > no videos.

Enjoying music being performed for you is letting yourself go and letting it do its work on you. To pretend that you're somehow genuinely 'enjoying' the music in a way that the people who've let themselves go over to it can't by listening to it as you would to a recording at home is, at the very least, a tad dishonest.

I tend to think that concert pics are incredibly silly, with the exception of those done of rare events (i.e. not one in a series of hundreds of concerts by a given band) or by great photographers. I've been happy to have caught my own performance once or twice when it was filmed or photographed, but I had a richer experience of it onstage. Exempting yourself from living a moment in order to record it when we're talking about a concert strikes me as ridiculous.

A bad video can detract from a song. And, when it comes down to it, I'd rather just listen to the song and come up with my own imagery than see another by-the-numbers music video of some metal band.

Concert videos are rarely worthwhile at all, and I have to doubt many people who think they're worth watching (with some exceptions) have ever had a genuine concert experience. Which is odd, since that's incredibly easy to do.

well i don't believe you HAVE to do a damn thing at a show. its about enjoying yourself for everyone. (except maybe the people working at the venue) if you want to stand on your head in the front row..i could give a fuck less as long as you aren't kicking me in the face. hah. i generally don't let what others do at shows get to me unless it is completely out there, or physically causing me to not enjoy the show. standing with your arms crossed and nodding your head to the song has nothing to do with pretending anything. that is your assumption...plain and simple.

as for recording the show via video or photo being ridiculous...come on man...where is this rule book you are getting this shit from? while most of my photos suck and i don't post them or even delete them immediately...i have been improving at each show and have had some pretty nice pics. nobody goes out and snaps off a bunch of pro quality shots without practice. low light and taking the pictures by hands basically means crappy looking shots taken with the flash..or blurry ass pics taken using the available light.

to say people in general, or myself bring our cameras to "exempt ourselves" is another baseless assumption.

haha and i guess while i'm at it..i still disagree with the video thing. i can see what you mean about it distracting from the song. but at the same time...i can always go back and listen to the audio and create my own mental imagery.

if you like a band..you should at least be open to see their videos as a step beyond simple audio. it allows them to further express what the song is about. yea, not all videos work out for the better...but i can't agree that all videos suck. there are some good live videos...many are lacking in quality. i enjoy them much of the time. i've been to a lot of shows and had great times at many, but i still enjoy the band, i still like seeing them play, and so a video is just an easy way to do it from my living room with whatever food i want to make right there as well. its great! not to mention better than most shit on tv hah.

+1 bro.

__________________

i have the same problem watching a live show video and music videos in general as i have listening to hi-fi, digital,protool cut and paste,super compressed recordings with the bassdrum triggered all by itself.

its like foriegn movie translations where you know the dialogue really captures the essense and emotion, but all you get is the straight text and something important<but not entirely>is lost. connotation, double meanings and literary references are sometimes distorted or lost.

music video is worst of the 2. i havent sat down and watched mtv vids in like 7 years or so, but when i did, the videos rarely did much but advertise gear,clothes,cars,bling,trends in everything from the way your hair is cut or the interior design of a luxury home.

only the rarest of conditions allow a dude with a video camera to capture the correct levels<without to much bleed> and get a good view to really do a live show justice. and its even rarer that the recording is better than the release.<in a live show recording>

there are exceptions and the video phenomena can be used to great effect to stand on its own, like those tool videos<metallicas "one" was excellent>and so on. it just so happens that alot of bands, metal included, dont really have a message and a video to correctly portray whats being put across, let alone music that actually reflects the emotion of the message.

and what i mean by "emotion" is like what movie scores are about, which is ironic that classical music scores and an intellegently picked soundtrack can do a movie wonders. but then again, the movie has to be saying something with the music coinciding with the general emotion of whats being conveyed.

so you have the sound, the message and the image to contend. all of it usually unwatchable/unlistenable for me.

sorry to rant here.

this past halloween i sat behind the kit with a goddamn klieglight in my face from some ass filming my band........the video will most likely suck too.

__________________

I can see most of your points on the actual video not seeming to contra the true message behind a song. I mean we make up our own meaning to most songs anyway. Most of the time our meanings of a song are way off from the author. So the video just contras his view. However, I've seen videos of song that appeared to me as way off especially in the cases of this new screamo music, this seems to me the norm for these bands.

I guess these even brakes down to the genres of music we listen too.

__________________

Most musicians aren't visual thinkers and don't know how to express themselves visually. It follows from this that their videos might suck. There are occasions when this isn't the case; low-tech named two in his very good post on this theme. In the case of Tool's videos, not only are some of the members of Tool visual and cinematic thinkers, but the whole band is conceived as a multimedia project and a lot of care is given to the non-musical aspects of it. That's unusual. In the case of the video for 'One,' most of that video is footage from the film that inspired the song to begin with; also, at the time metal musicians performing angrily in dark rooms wasn't yet a cliche, and somebody doing something for the first time almost always has a different feel than somebody doing something that's been done 1,000 times, because it's been done so many times and he has no idea what else to do and hasn't hired somebody who does. Most metal videos are visually unimaginative and copied off of one another, and I'd really rather just listen to the song 99 times out of 100.

Anyway, you asked why somebody wouldn't want to see a video by a band they liked and I answered your question. If you don't like my answer you can always sit on a spiked fence.

You yourself claimed that one reason you can't mosh is because you have a camera. If that's not exempting yourself I don't know what is. An observer is not a participant. Don't bullshit yourself or me. But the fact that something's silly or ridiculous doesn't bar anybody from doing it. There's nothing I could possibly do to make you stop taking pictures if I wanted to, and I don't care enough to want to.

Again, enjoying yourself by being outside the music rather than being caught up by it makes actually going to a concert, rather than listening to your album over and over again at home, a pointless exercise, a pretext to later talk about it and show pictures of it and otherwise have experiences around, but not in, the concert. If the music makes somebody want to stand on his head in the front row, that's one thing, but no music makes somebody want to stand in a corner, lean against a wall, and cross his arms as an expression of how good it is and how much he's enjoying it. That's his right, sure, and I don't think anybody should be barred from doing that. I just think that those people are letting some bullshit keep them from enjoying the concert fully. Whether or not they were ever capable of enjoying a concert as fully as people without those inhibitions is another matter.

By the way, ask people who've played shows what type of audience response rewards and what kind drains them.

I will admit that there are some filmed concerts that are perfect, maybe even better than being there, and when that happens it's extremely cool. But some douche in the audience with a handicam's tape is almost always worse than not experiencing the concert at all (if you can claim that watching some poorly lit video with garbage sound quality shot from a vantagepoint that's far from ideal is experiencing the concert in some way, that is).

I guess my final point is just that I really don't care if you're persuaded by what I'm saying. You're going to do what you're going to do anyway, and I'm really not going to care. I'm just sharing my thoughts on the only portion of what the thread's about that I find worth thinking about, since I don't watch TV and especially not any of the music shows. When you fit so easily into a dumbed-down and over-engineered format, you have to wonder if it's really you in there, and if it is, you have to wonder what the fuck is wrong with you.

ive seen just about all of my favorite bands live and i still routinely check youtube for concert videos, even just bootleg digi cam recordings. it goes hand in hand with my love of demos and stuff too. when i like a band, i like getting demos and bootlegs too. i can think of guys that are like me in that respect (guitar demon, MTM) and not (human waste, amerok)

__________________

exactly...when i like a band...i am eager to check out all media that is produced by or about them. yes, i often check crappy videos with shitty sound that were made on some guys cell phone...and many times i don't even watch 20 seconds of them...sometimes i do.

well i admit you make good points about musicians not necessarily being visual thinkers..however i don't use this as an excuse to bash or not even give a video a chance. i have seen many bad videos..i've stopped watching many of these..and i've finished many of them as well. i think your cynicism is getting the best of you.

having a camera with me, and so not moshing, could be defined as an exemption...but the way you are using the word infers a negative connotation. as in i am bringing my camera as a crutch to not be seen as a pansy hiding from the pit?? moshing was not involved in my decision to bring the camera...practice taking pictures, having something i can always look back on, and even sharing pics of concerts with people like you ..or at least those who might appreciate it were some of the things i did consider.

i bring my camera to shows lately because i relatively recently got my camera (a nice one too ) and have been learning photography on my own, in my own time. i take it with me to many places if i feel there is a subject worth taking pictures of. the low light and constant motion presents me with a great opportunity to practice and learn techniques for these situations. i'm not sure how much you know about photography, so this all might not mean as much to you.

in the end...i agree people will do what they want at shows and that is great. my main point is that there is no rule about what you should do (as long as it doesn't cause harm to others) and if you are busy worrying about what other people are doing..perhaps you have some internal questions that need answering.

i am not trying to convince you to agree with me in full or change your beliefs...simply trying to point out that some of what you are presenting as fact...is really just your opinion.

example: "Again, enjoying yourself by being outside the music rather than being caught up by it makes actually going to a concert, rather than listening to your album over and over again at home, a pointless exercise, a pretext to later talk about it and show pictures of it and otherwise have experiences around, but not in, the concert."

Christ, jews sure do complain a lot! Can you imagine the cruse words coming out of Jesus' mouth at his crucifixion.

__________________

yeah, i do too and the live youtube stuff does wonders to show how high end metal acts dont get thier material across to the audience, or at least its presented as such thru the stock audio recorder attatched to the camera.

a good example.

those necrophagist live vids from rumania or bulgaria or wherever.

you get to see them when the ditigal magic is gone.

no bassdrum,cymbal wash

all the guitar interplay and volume dynamic contrasting/counterpoint sounds flat,counterintuitive to what it sounds like in the album, tempos rushed, bass too thin, solos washed out.

its like looking at the mugshot of a coked up supermodel.

i like necrophagist but those videos dont do thier album justice, cant say much of the live show in person, which im sure is better than what i witnessed.

__________________

In person their actual presence and your direct involvement can make up for the fact that it doesn't sound as good as it does on the album. Sound quality's almost irrelevant in person if the connection of energy's maintained, which depends on both you and the band.

Of course, you can also just convince yourself that the experience is awesome without it necessarily being so in any notable way. This isn't particularly hard to pull off if you go into the concert having decided how great it's going to be in advance.

I'm not busy worrying about what other people do. I don't care. But I think about the difference between a live and a record performance and write accordingly. You won't see me say this at a concert, because a concert isn't a place for lengthy discussion, and I care less than virtually anybody if I'm the only person getting into the music or not. I just think and then write about the things that concern me. This happens to be one of those things.

Wasn't calling you a pansy. The 'exemption' thing has a negative connotation, but not that one.

A demo and a concert vid are worlds apart. A demo shows you how the band progresses creatively. It's a little glimpse into their creative process and maybe into their minds. Cool stuff. A concert vid is usually just a crappy recording of them playing worse than they can in a studio environment. I understand that you mean you get both due to being a completist, but they shouldn't be lumped together.

yeah, true.

im very particular to sound quality,if a band uses alot of volume dynamics, harmonies,subtle chord changes,crescenzo/dimuendo, tempo buid-ups/slowdowns etc.. its just important as doing the gravity blast, the 5 string sweeped arpeggio, all the techniques that have to be exectuted,all the notes that are correctly hit.

for me,they better deliver. i have a high standard but not one even i cant live up to,

im not the guy drinking from the keg,half-cocked and flailing about, nothing wrong with that, but some people are so drunk they act on impulse of just the bombast, decibel level of the music. alot of bands are much more than aggression.

i stand where the music sounds best and try to internalize whats going on, even if its just raw,minimalist and quite straightforward. thats just me tho.

the arms crossed thing, i see it as a defensive posture so it may indicate discomfort......alot of people into metal are introverts,passive aggressive types, people who dont fit in well socially. so you get alot of the stoned faced,aloof,humorless types and sometimes just straight-up insecure assholes.

im not that comfortable in crowds either, but i try to talk to people,relax and enjoy myself anyway.

i see it as you clear your head,forget yourself,submit to each moment of the music and you move anyway, not necessarily moshing but anything.

__________________

"fuckin Mel Gibson will come one fuckin day to smite ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL your candy asses, jabronis!!!!"

that's how i picture Jesus. he had long hair, therefore, he was badass.

The Eldritch.

pst... well i can't debate too much of your last post heh. looks to be solid opinion. i agree on much of this..and part of me has just been playing devils advocate. you just seem very black/white, while i happen to see much more gray.

hah i have to admit...one of my favorite shows ever was a hardcore show i went to back in 96 i think. i went by myself, didn't bring shit..just me. i knew most of the lyrics to the songs from a few bands there...went fucking nuts in the pit (aka the whole place at this show basically) and was jumping off the small ass stage and singing along....it was fucking amazing! and no...i've never had that much fun while at a show with my camera or hanging out with a girl or other people that didn't want to get mixed up in the ruckus. but i cannot deny that i have seriously enjoyed myself at shows where i wasn't involved in the madness in the middle of the crowd.

and i didn't mean to almost put words in your mouth...wasn't thinking you were saying i was a pansy..but that was an easy word to sum up the negative connotation heh.

The arms crossed thing is more to do with comfort for me tha n anything else. Where else am I to supposed to put my handswhe I'm standing up!/?

Yeah, that's it. I'm not talking about moshing. Just feeling the music. Moshing's just one thing you can do.

I'm more concerned with them delivering the energy than the sound quality and technical ability they exhibited under ideal situations. A recording's a very different thing than a live performance, with virtually everything under the band's control to a degree that's impossible to replicate live, so I can't judge based on the quality of the sound (which is probably not under their control at all) or even, within reasonable limits, if they manage to pull everything off live without mistakes (even King Crimson has the occasional clam crimsonique). But if they music is played reasonably well and the band genuinely connects with the audience, I'll put back into it what I get out of it. If they could play everything perfectly too, that'd be nice, but I have the CD for that.

Like I've said, being involved in the moshpit isn't really the only way to move to the music. There are lots of ways to do that and I don't really care what gets done so long as nobody gets hurt (that includes not caring if people hide off in a corner). I just don't see the point of going to a show if you're not willing to give back to the band what they've given to you, and continue to give. It's pretty much the only chance you'll ever get to collaborate with the bands you love.

very true. i think you recognize this more than myself because i am not in a band, nor have i been in one that played any serious shows. i do recognize the situation of a band giving their all and not receiving feedback from the crowd. it is frustrating to watch..much less feel as the band performing.

last time i saw darkest hour they were playing their hearts out and you could see amongst the crowd the desire to let loose...yet for some reason people weren't...i think because dillinger escape plan was next and people were waiting for that ( which i don't agree with) ....hah and before you ask what i was doing. that was actually the first and LAST show i went to on shrooms. too many fucking people. i was itching to just start a pit since i could almost feel the potential energy. i voted it down since i was tripping and a mosh pit is probably the last place you'd want to be during that hahaha.

i cross my arms when im packed in with people, thats more about personal space, but there remains discomfort for me, i dont want to involuntarily elbow someone in the side or something, drunks are the worst....they lean on you and shit.

every metal show has folks who stand off to the side and just maintain a pretty severe, made-of-stone, scowl thruout the show, alot of times the atmosphere is very hostile and folks who dont look the part get kinda eye-fucked and frowned upon.

alot of folks miss the point on what a live show is about.


some people are there just to party,drink and socialize. they will,almost like an obligation,mosh to whatever the hell is playing, mac on the honeys and represent alpha-male insecure aggression towards thier competition, call out a few art fags,posers,yuppies. hell, even band members who played act this way.

its just the nature of having a bunch of humans in close proximity, some folks act more aggressive than they usually do, some become really on thier guard and are so self concious that they ruin it for themselves, others like to draw attention. alot like to not watch the bands and socialize....after they paid.

i try to watch every band if my ears permit, sometimes im seriously going deaf and have to excuse myself. other times i already know the band thats playing, i dont like them and im not open for giving what they do another chance<this is rare and usually includes acts that dont have drummers>.

__________________

Has Metalocalypse been mentioned yet?

That technically isn't a music show. It's a cartoon about a band that MAKES music, but I think we're talking about shows that advertise bands not formed by pencil and ink.

__________________

Hmm...well, I dunno if Beavis and Butthead fits that criteria perfectly, but if they do, then thats definitely my favorite music show

i have a confess something i watch metalmania every saturday morning on vh1 clasic

We had Heavy Shift on channel V. Mostly nu metal though. We have Rage, which at about 1 in the morning onwards gets pretty cool. Anything from Christina Aguilera to The Berzerker on that show, plus heaps and heaps of crazy indie art rock alternative bands which I don't mind either. No real shows dedicated to metal. John Safran is fucken awesome though, too bad it's over.

Oh and about Rage anyone and I mean ANYONE can make a vid for their band [the vid can be anything from fucking porno to a blank white screen they accept any vid of any band!!!] and send it in and more than likely get air play.

He, thanks for the tip. What channel do Rage go on?

Thanks PST, you put it very well. Personally I go to shows for the mixture of hearing and having fun to good music and meeting people; there's this thing in the city of Lund called Metal Café once a year, lots of usually unsigned bands, starts in the afternoon and keeps on until late in the night. After you've paid for the ticket you can come and go as you like and between the acts there's time for socialising and a well stocked cafeteria. Alcohole- and drugfree but for some reason the mood is generally very high and as for myself I think this is a much more fun type of concert-event than those large-arena gigs.

__________________

Reading this made me realize why I probably wasn't enthused with the Metallica concert we went to a few years ago. I wasn't feeling it. Where we were sitting was like watching it on a video and the sound didn't grab me. And that's probably also why at the same venue Godsmack did. It had a pulse whereas Metallica didn't. Live and learn.

There's lots of bad videos out there that ruin songs, but some artists I personally would never see if it wasn't for the videos. Some are really cool though.

__________________

so, what "other ways" are you getting at? headbanging? or possibly the ol' fist shake, heh. as for me, i dont stand against a wall, but i definately stay about 10 feet away from the pits, or to the side of some huge guy that will knock the shit out of a stray dance/mosher, so im not bothered to. ive never moshed at a show. wouldnt it be pretty hard to pay attention to the music and the band that way? a friend of mine told me that he saw no moshing at the necrophagist show he attended. at that point, i assumed that a band like that might enjoy the fact that people are more concerned with checking out their playing, rather than running wild and possibly not stopping to take visual notice of what the band does best.

i dont know about the shows other than here, but after the set, we go out back and meet the band, get autographs and pictures, when we remember cameras. its a pretty fuckin sweet ass cherry on top of the whole night.

The only time I watch the band play is when I'm too exhausted to be in the pit. Or if I'm at the front I might hang on to the rails and watch them..while headbanging or fist pumping.


It's seriously all about the fist pump. Fuck the "d3v11 hornz"...It's all about the fist pump.

I fucking hate metal videos with people wearing gas masks.

__________________

well there was plenty of moshing going while they were playing here..but i agree with you on the next line. since i play guitar..i enjoy watching the guitarists do their thing. its pretty tough to catch it if i'm busy keeping track of flailing limbs and making sure my feet are still underneath me.

The Elderich?? I can't spell it but you know which song I mean.

you're all saying that music videos bring negative connotations to songs if they're bad: true. But if they're good (staring through the eyes of the dead, god of emptiness) then the music is (for me) enhanced to an extent. For some this may just mean a mind-trap for musical art getting interpreted into the physical, which connotates that song with images, which could be bad. But i like a GOOD vid

__________________

Just about any artform can, in theory, be linked to another art form, with great results. Theoretically.
Anyhow, can anyone explain what got into MTV this last weekend? A Headbanger's ball deluxe, covering just about every prime time hour. And with bands like Iron Maiden, Dio, Sepultura, Dragon force, etc., you get the picture, in abundance; plus a couple of actually interesting and positive documentaries.
Whatever got into them? Not that I'm complaining - they put it on one of the very few weekends where I had time to watch.

__________________

My goodness! It sounds like pledge drive time on PBS! Full of good stuff for a whole weekend. With exception of last weekend when they took off my beloved Britcoms to put on Johnny Mathis. Maybe they're trying to get a "better crowd of people" than the ones that watch some of those dipshit shows. Insulting to people's intelligence and I only see a few seconds at a time changing channels. And that's too much!

__________________

Are you implying that MTV is trying to get back their old audience of metalheads again? As you all understand, I derived this from the wording "better people".

__________________

You're a smart one. Look at the activities of the metalheads here and look at the ones of the Britney/boy bands types? Do you think they'll make more money from metalheads that appreciate music or bubble gum wannabes?

__________________

Haha Dragon Force good music??!?!?!?!?!?!?




Anyway, ive seen some decent stuff on MTV, and VH1 lately. Always good to know they belong to the same damn company.....Aslong as they show the bull shit like Road Rules, Flava Flav(how ever you spell the dirty niggers name), and Your Momma, they will never get the "Better People" back.

__________________

MTV= Black music for white people.

__________________

Bubble gum wannabees would be my target group if I were after big and fast money.
CTL, I'm only partially agreeing with you. I am myself by definition a hip-hoper, and the examples of dumb worthlessness they show as R'n'B and hip-hop on MTV have very little to do with the music I listen to. To my mind, MTV-hiphop and the 80's hair- and glam metal fit very well into the same category, because of what they are and represent visavi their respective genre.

__________________

"The only good thing to come out of the 80's was me." --walpurgis

My mother periodically asks me if I watched Flava Flav. I think I did once just to see what she was talking about, but I'd rather waste my time here than watching that. Those shows are just too.....*sigh* indescribeable.

__________________