2007-04-10, 02:49
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You gamma-minus fucktards
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Would you have stopped?
This is the best newspaper piece I have read for two years. And I read a lot of newspapers.
If you can't be zarked reading it, then firstly: fuck you. You're a semi-literate piece of shit. Go and read it, you cross-eyed halfwit dicklicker. NOW.
Anyway, it's a great premise for a thinkpiece - possibly the best classical violinist in the world sets up shop in Washington train station, puts down his hat, takes out his Stradovarius and proceeds to play some of the most transcendant violin music of the last 400 years. Does he get any money? Does anyone even stop and listen?
It's hard to draw a metal analogy, it's unlikely you'll come across Suffocation in a train station. I'll try something similar...
Having nothing else to do, you go to a bar with a metal night, 4 band lineup. The headline act is a local act you've seen before, nothing awesome but a guaranteed thumping good time.
Unbeknownst to you, the second band is a side project that you've never heard of before with a generic bullshit name (Morbid Deathly Kill Death Death Stabbitty Kill etc.), consisting of Mikael Akerfeldt (everything), Luke Jaeger (Sleep Terror), Paul Bostaph (everything else) and some bass player comfortable with technical BS, maybe Dick Lovgren (Meshuggah). They're wearing masks, you can't tell who they are. They didn't publicise it for the same reason as in the article - they're planning a big fucking ambush on you.
The music is good (well, probably spectacular) - limited by the equipment at hand and the average-sounding club PA, of course. However, it's the second band and you're not on the floor, you're still talking to your ugly fucking friends and arguing about whether or not Metallica sold out.
I still think you'd notice that the quality of the music was superb. Instantly. At the very, very least that you weren't listening to some half-arsed pub band. As much as you're all a bunch of diseased and feeble simians, I think you'd know the moment you heard a drum fill, or a weird modal guitar lick, or just the inevitably complex yet crushingly heavy texture that my Dial-A-Supergroup would have. Why it's different to our subway violinist is that you're in that place specifically to listen to music, and if someone significant enough happens in that music, you'll probably notice regardless.
But! The removal of context... you didn't pay $80 + booking for the ticket, you aren't in a room full of screaming fanboys, you can't recognise any of them... I wonder how different it would sound?
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far_beyond_sane - contributing to the moral decay of your children since 1982
"It was some kind of evolutionary glitch, she figured; no different than the other unreasonable side effects of consciousness and emotion, like religion and rap music."
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2007-04-10, 03:20
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Slayer of dumb cunts
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I got up to
Quote:
No one knew it, but the fiddler standing against a bare wall outside the Metro in an indoor arcade at the top of the escalators was one of the finest classical musicians in the world, playing some of the most elegant music ever written on one of the most valuable violins ever made. His performance was arranged by The Washington Post as an experiment in context, perception and priorities
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I was like god damnit i have to read the whole fucking thing now...
*reading......
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
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About requiem. Aint it the truth...
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2007-04-10, 03:39
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Post-whore
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Fantastic article.
Genre has a lot to do with it I think. Classical music all sounds the same to a lot of people, and perhaps is boring to the average person. Yes, the average person will recognise someone who sounds like he has some skill, but they wouldn't be able to tell if what they're hearing is something extremely special and worth standing around for. Of course that Mortensen guy is a glaring exception, which is why I say the average individual.
If you were to place an unrecognisable yet amazing rock band, or something similarly popular in the exactly same situation, and get them to play never-before heard songs, the reception would be totally different.
Last edited by blizzard_beast : 2007-04-10 at 03:41.
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2007-04-10, 03:52
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Life is pain.
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Am I average if I think that classical is boring, impersonal, unmoving and cliche in sound?
I would have stopped though, seeing peeps do shit is awesome.
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2007-04-10, 03:56
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Post-whore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinity
Am I average if I think that classical is boring, impersonal, unmoving and cliche in sound?
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Nothing wrong with being average though. It's only music.
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2007-04-10, 03:58
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Slayer of dumb cunts
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Read the entire thing. Most definitely one seriously kick ass worth a read article.
Sounds like DC. Its busy and people gotta move. Its most definitely a very intense place at times.
The question, would i stop? I may have stopped for a few minutes off to the side to listen probably, i doubt i would give up money though. Although at the very LEAST walking by i would keep turning my head again and again.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
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About requiem. Aint it the truth...
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2007-04-10, 04:00
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Post-whore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by far_beyond_sane
It's hard to draw a metal analogy, it's unlikely you'll come across Suffocation in a train station. I'll try something similar...
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How do you plan on doing that?
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2007-04-10, 04:02
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Post-whore
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Quote:
Interview magazine once said his playing "does nothing less than tell human beings why they bother to live."
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for some reason this made me laugh.
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2007-04-10, 04:11
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Slayer of dumb cunts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low-tech
for some reason this made me laugh.
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Yeah that was a good line haha.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
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About requiem. Aint it the truth...
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2007-04-10, 04:12
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wigger/redneck/drunkard
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I read all of it. The final film clip reminded me of some scenes from "requiem for a dream" or some shit. Good article FBS, thanks for sharing.
I try to take time out to smell the roses. I think the article made a nice point about how people program their own Ipods which limits their exposure to music, but this really doesn't refer to me because I'm constantly downloading new music. I'm definatley going to check out a couple of these classical pieces mentioned in the text.
IF A GREAT MUSICIAN PLAYS GREAT MUSIC BUT NO ONE HEARS . . . WAS HE REALLY ANY GOOD?
...neat stuff. thanks for sharing.
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2007-04-10, 04:20
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New Blood
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Wow. Incredible. Just incredible.
I work as a cashier at a restaurant, people wont even wait 15 minutes for a grilled Hawaiian plate.
Go to MCDONALDS THEN
sorry went off an a tangent
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2007-04-10, 04:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matamoros
Wow. Incredible. Just incredible.
I work as a cashier at a restaurant, people wont even wait 15 minutes for a grilled Hawaiian plate.
Go to MCDONALDS THEN
sorry went off an a tangent
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Grilling shouldn't take 15 minutes. It's the restaurant's own damn fault for being so fucking inefficient.
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2007-04-10, 04:35
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Senior Metalhead
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I liked that, brought a tear to my eye for some reason.
It doesn't suprise me in the least that he wasn't acknowledged, especially in that kind of situation, that country, and especially with the sort of music he was playing. However, I'm sure if some mainstream top 40 singer pulled the exact same stunt (dressed down and singing arcapella), it would still eventually garner much more attention regardless of the context. Real shame.
The part about Evan reminds me of when I went to Sydney on a holiday when I was 12. Being from a small town and not at all familiar with city life, I was always intrigued by the great variety of buskers around the streets and in the train stations. I held my mum up so many times because I always wanted to watch, emptied her change purse a few times too.
Good reminder that we all just need to take a big step back and have a look around sometimes.
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2007-04-10, 04:53
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Die Young.
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Good article. I'm sure I would have stopped; I want to be more affixed to the allure of classical music. I probably would have gave the guy a few bucks if I was not busy, but not $85..
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Bitches, Hoes And Corn Rows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moe_blunts
you done told me lots of thangs bout beer n shit and canada. have a grand ol cunt of a good time.
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RIP moe.
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2007-04-10, 07:25
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Good article, worthwhile, I just wish I was a speed-reader.
I probably would've stopped. I usually stop for your typical street-stuntmen, for at least a couple of minutes, to see at least one stunt (as their dragging on pisses me off). I haven't stopped for violinists before. But this is because their violins sounded like shit. This guy obviously is an exception, I think I would've recognised his violin is not scratchy or disjointed and his technique exemplifies the violins perfection. It also depends on when I came. If I came during a "boring" slower part, I might've not stopped. If I came during that part when he was shredding in a minor scale ( ), I 99% would have stopped. It all depends on situation I guess.
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2007-04-10, 07:43
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Throbbing Member
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So, that's the piece Bell started with. Ha!
Funny little experiment. I would have expected a bit more attention to Mr. Bell but in a situation where its early and people are rushing to work - especially in an area where street musicians are probably farily common (and not all are great which may lead to a dismissing kind of bias) I can understand the results. Me? I would have stopped. I'm a sucker for street musicians as sometimes you can find a gem. I wouldn't have known who he was or that his instrument was a Stradivarius. Again, I would have expected more people to stop, but I don't think much can be said about the people as you can never know for sure what was going on with each individual or if they're even into the violin. If the situation was reversed and Joshua Bell was rushing to work and happened to pass David Gilmour sitting in the Subway singing and playing or rushed past the exhumed, refurbished, and possessed corpse of Da Vinci painting people passing by on the sidewalk, would he stop to listen or watch? If not, would it mean anything at all? No.
In response to Jim's "thinkpiece": I think knowing who is playing what you're listening to (especially if it is someone you admire or even know) has an impact on how you're percieving it. For instance, researching/becoming familiar about a band or individual, their backround, personality, intent, meaning in their work, etc will intensify my experience because I've grown to respect or admire the person/gourp. Example: The first time I saw Isis last year I was only strongly familiar with one album and had heard only a little bit of others. I was still a Isis fan, but, I hadn't really dived as deep into them as I am now. Last night I saw Isis again, this time with a strong knowledge of their past work, members, and admiration for Aaron Turner and, while it was just as powerful as the first performance it had a different attribute about it that made it even more enjoyable. So what if next month I witnissed (unbeknownst to me) Isis wearing masks and playing different material? I'm sure I still would have been into it.. but on a different level and lighter connection. This is similar to that example Mr. Leithauser used.
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Last edited by Darko : 2007-04-10 at 07:46.
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2007-04-10, 09:32
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i probably would of stopped, i always check out who's doing what in the boston subway since the route i take to go to my parents incudes the park st and government center stops where musicians are common.
i dont necessarily give money tho, only if i really like what the musician is doing.
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2007-04-10, 10:04
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Denimwearinghillbilly
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this is just magnificent, i wouldnt have guessed somebody recognised him
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2007-04-10, 10:16
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El Diablo sin pantalones
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I would love to say I would stop and listen, however, that is what everyone would say, and that is where Variety Bias comes in, where all people think they are above-average.
However, I do sometimes stop to listen to street musicians now and then, when it strikes me as either very good or something I've never heard/seen before.
It isn't realy that mind boggling when you think about the context.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem
Why would you sig that?
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Why not? Why would you sig me saying that I hate you? I was serious there, too.
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I'm in despair! The internet has left me in despair!
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2007-04-10, 13:21
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You gamma-minus fucktards
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainsforbreakfast
I would love to say I would stop and listen, however, that is what everyone would say, and that is where Variety Bias comes in, where all people think they are above-average.
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It's not all, it's generally about 70-75% percent (domain-specific), and I've never heard it called anything except an overconfidence effect.
That being said, you have three thousand eight hundred and fourty one posts on a board which is ostensibly concerned entirely with music. You know how powerfully ignorant your average cloth-eared chump from the accounts department is... are we a biased sample here? (I give you people too much fucking credit, so help me...)
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far_beyond_sane - contributing to the moral decay of your children since 1982
"It was some kind of evolutionary glitch, she figured; no different than the other unreasonable side effects of consciousness and emotion, like religion and rap music."
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2007-04-10, 13:30
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El Diablo sin pantalones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by far_beyond_sane
It's not all, it's generally about 70-75% percent (domain-specific), and I've never heard it called anything except an overconfidence effect.
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Yes. The overconfidence effect. Got my terms mixed up.
Quote:
That being said, you have three thousand eight hundred and fourty one posts on a board which is ostensibly concerned entirely with music. You know how powerfully ignorant your average cloth-eared chump from the accounts department is... are we a biased sample here? (I give you people too much fucking credit, so help me...)
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We are all musical elitists here, one way or another.
So while the average cloth-eared chump from accounts department would go 'meh' because the street musician doesn't play radio friendly classic rock,
the snobby metal musiscian would go 'meh' because they think they are better musicians.
Most people don't care enough about music that is outside their alley, be that 3 chord punk or virtuose Bach.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem
Why would you sig that?
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Why not? Why would you sig me saying that I hate you? I was serious there, too.
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I'm in despair! The internet has left me in despair!
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2007-04-10, 14:23
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Slayer of dumb cunts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainsforbreakfast
I would love to say I would stop and listen, however, that is what everyone would say, and that is where Variety Bias comes in, where all people think they are above-average.
However, I do sometimes stop to listen to street musicians now and then, when it strikes me as either very good or something I've never heard/seen before.
It isn't realy that mind boggling when you think about the context.
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Not to mention one must look at the circumstances that this is in.
If i'm not mistaken the only people that have replied to this that have been to the DC metro area would be me and bassb. Its a fucking animal and a half. To think that somebody would stop for well anything outside of their daily routine is pretty unbelieveable. Granted i can't comment on the lack of looks other than its possible they may have heard for a bit, (not enough for it to mean anything) get up there go ok some random musician is playing and moved on. (depending i guess from where they came into the area from).
I think if you did this at another place you would find drastically different results. Such as a street corner during the day.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
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About requiem. Aint it the truth...
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2007-04-10, 14:52
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Post-whore
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I just watched Fantasia and rediscovered my love of classical music
Rites of Spring=
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2007-04-10, 15:16
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Forum Daemon
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I did an experiment once with a bum in the South Loop. Both he and I tried to hail down random people walking down the street, usually the same people within a block of one another, he obviously a bum, me acting just like some tourist looking for Millennium Park. While everybody stopped for me, only a few people even acted as though a person was talking to them when he tried to talk to them.
Point? The majority of people walking through an area where there are bums and street performers do so regularly and so are conditioned to ignore them. It would take something very strong to overcome that conditioning, and classical music is in this sort of limbo where everybody believes they know it, so it's lacking exotic appeal, but are really unfamiliar with it, so they might not be able to tell when a performer is world-class. My guess would be that a similarly skilled musician in a more 'exotic' genre would get more people stopping.
I also think we have a sample bias, not because we're mostly musicians but because we're very few of us jaded citydwellers. And, of course, it's easier to imagine being the type of person to stop than to be that person, but it's very easy to be that person if you're not constantly in a stupid rush. Since I tend to stop to watch/listen to street performers and talk to bums I'd probably stop for him, but does that mean I'd recognize that this was an extraordinarily talented musician playing a unique instrument? I'd obviously like to think so, but I don't know.
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2007-04-10, 17:09
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Post-whore
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i agree..that was a great article. makes me miss dc. i figure the metro there is not much different than any large city.. theres people sitting asking for change, some people playing music, some just doing random routines. it happens all over the city. i take notice of them all, and will usually give someone a dollar or my spare change if they ask or are doing a good routine or playing some nice music. after that donation, i generally don't give out anymore if someone was to ask me a few minutes later. helping out is fine..but i can't support the whole block. most of my interaction with the homeless in dc was giving them money to buy us beer and then buying them something..food, socks, booze, whatever as long as its not too much money...
its tough to blame most of those people though. if you are on your way to work and don't have any time..you have a choice of being late and watching someone perform, or you can be on time and keep your job. i don't know about any of you..but my boss could give a fuck less who the person was playing the music. if i knew i had time to kill i'd probably stay and watch a minute. i really like classical, and the violin is one of my favorite instruments. ha i can't play it for shit, but its a very expressive instrument.
i have to admit i was expecting a bit more of a response from the commuters, but at the same time i am not very surprised at the general reaction. like most metros, people aren't there to hang out or interact. they are on their way to do something and don't want to get involved in anything they don't have to.
in the end i have to also agree with the overall idea put forward by the article...there is something saddening about the state of life where everyone is just eyes forward with a one track mind..but thats the way it is, and the best i can do is try not to become too much of a mindless part of our society.
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2007-04-12, 01:45
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You gamma-minus fucktards
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far_beyond_sane - contributing to the moral decay of your children since 1982
"It was some kind of evolutionary glitch, she figured; no different than the other unreasonable side effects of consciousness and emotion, like religion and rap music."
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