How do explain, why metal lyrics are the way they are. I know that agressive music is aggressive music but you cant just say to your sister "this is so brutal!"
I thought about it for a sec and couldn't really come up with an answer. Give a post or two on your thoughts on metallyrics. this thred in no way questions the lyrics themselves, (i like them).

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Wouldn't cryptopsy sound funny singing about flowers?

what the hell are you talking about

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Um ... this is kind of a vague question. I'm not exactly sure what the question is ... you've got everything from Meshuggah to Mortician, two completely opposite ends of the lyrical spectrum in metal. So ... what is your definition of metal lyricism?

Most death metal lyrics are poorly written.

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Not Lord Worms.

Half the bands are poorly educated!

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Well i mean you're saying metal and your thread title mentions death metal. So which is it?

As metal as a whole, i think its not too shabby. Ok overall, some parts horrible, and some parts pretty solid. I think this is almost too open ended of a question to ask. As for me, i generally listen to bands that in my opinion have very solid and meaningful lyrics, that generally I can relate to. Which is why the expressionist lyrics of Melodic Death metal and some of thrash generally create teh proper atmosphere that i want to get out of music.

Sure there are some bands that i don't really listen to for the lyrics, but personally they don't reach the bands that do.

Edit: And Proaz.. haha i'm going to highly dissagree with you. I'm not saying all.. by any means, but there plenty of metal "bands" out there with guys who have phd's in music, or college degrees and what not. And it would appear alot of people leave the music scene to finish their degrees as well.

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This is true.


Lord Worm? He sounds like a stalled lawn mower...and like his lyrics are really necessary anyways.

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I said half not all of them! As for this lyric thing when i listen to thrash metal (OverKill, Vicious Rumors,ETC) and 80's hair metal (WASP, GNR, ETC) i get a pretty uplifting fill from the music. Seems to me alot of the songs speak about partying so i guess thats why.... is this even what where talking about?

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What i meant to say was, how would you explain to a non-metalhead (specifically death metal that im talking), why they are singing about killing people. i can think of an explanation for every other genre but death metal (even black metal)

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You can't explain it. Death metal bands are just caught in a paraodx. They want to immerse themselves in every fluid that humans have to offer, but at the same time, they want to follow the law (can you imagine having long hair in a maximum security prison?). So, they just sing (read: belch) about it, rather than doing it.

Most of it is just too explicit to try and convince someone that there is a deeper, more profound meaning behind " I want to stick glass up your bleeding cunt."

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fuck if i know, but i find brutal lyrics gross and stupid, so i also dont care. are you sure you arnt talking about gore lyrics. some people told me "its a joke"... but like ive said before, i dont like jokes in metal. if it is all a joke, then thats pretty ridiculous. if it isnt a joke, and they really dream of killing people like that, then thats just fucked up and disturbing.

my favorite lyrical topic is norse mytholgy. i find it very interesting. so yeah, i dont have an anwser, myself, because i fail to see how such a large number of metal heads would really be interested in mutilating humans and animals.

I agree with you about your points.

"gore and brutal" lyrics are empowering to the seemingly powerless, average metalhead. They can be the toughest motherfucker with such musical elements.

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I don't.

Jokes are funny.

Just because you cry to Iron by Ensiferum, doesn't mean we all do.

Here's the why: A vegetarian band from the UK chose to make a political statement by reducing man to meat, having fun while doing it by using a medical dictionary, thereby following in the footsteps of many an acerbic British political humorist. Next, a successful idiot from Buffalo, NY liked this formula, but hadn't an ounce of wit in his body, so he took all the external trappings and lost the organs under the skin (ironically while writing songs about the same). Because both bands were successful and influential, and the successful and influential bands in any genre dictate what will come after, we're stuck with a lot of pointless gore lyrics.

I'd like to say that I can't imagine the mind of somebody who thinks that 20th century men taking Norse mythology seriously aren't an enormous joke, but that would be doing discredit to my imagination. In any case, there are many times when the person doing something seriously is a joke, whereas the person making jokes is serious.

HAHAHHAHHAHAHAahahaa

Great post all up. Is that really how it all started? What genre were the bands?

The british band= Carcass; The Buffalo NY band = Cannibal Corpse. You better thank your lucky stars this wasn't a history exam.

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I don't cry during any music. I didn't say I favor norse mythology lyrics, I said I agreed with most of his points.

But certainly I don't favor lyrics about fucking eye sockets either. The "shockingness" of it just pretty stupid and repetitive to me.

Some bands I listen to are out of pure drunken enjoyment, such as Finntroll, and any band/song that makes you drunkenly jig around a room/open snow laden, wood fir3.

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But its isn;t about the gore that im asking. Is the only way to justifiy it, that it is aggressive sounding music and can't be accompanied by anything other than aggressive lyrics?

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you got me wrong. i said i find it interesting. dont change my words. and then i said i fail to see how so many metalheads would be interested in the disgusting gore lyrics. get it? furthermore, i also said that many of these sort of metalheads have told me it is a joke.

yes they are. but you are missing my point. this:

strangle the baby, rip its intestines, grip them in your hand, and fuck the bundle.

this is not a "joke". the fact that it isnt what the person really wants to do may be considered a joke, but it is not a joke in itself. sort of like what PST was saying.

Yeah, I love death metal, but I sorta agree with timedragon. The lyrics in lots of death metal are beyond explicit and not presented in a joking manner. If the band is really trying to make a joking statement, then they must be masters at doing it without ever cracking up through their whole career. I have yet to see a photo of a death metal band where they are doing anything but frowning. Anyone ever seen Chris Barnes smile? What about Mike Smith? Didn't think so.

Then again, out of all the sub-genres of extreme metal, the lyrics in death metal are probably the least paid attention to, and the least intelligable, cause they are all so similar and over the top. Speed and riffage are the most important things.

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In reply to Blood red bass, you're about right in the riffage statement. I'm the kind of person that good "riffage" and technical ability only goes so far with me, and without serious hearty lyrics, the music doesn't do it for me. And on top of that presentation, hence why i don't like death vocals. But i think the entire idea of it being a joke, is probably more stupid than anything. There are plenty of bands out there that probably do it for shock value, and in reality nobody who it would matter to shock listens to that music, so in a way its a self-defeating idea.

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watch the dvd that accompanies the wretched spawn, they explain why the lyrics are the way they are...

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I have watched that DVD before, and the closest thing Corpsegrinder had to an explanation was about 2 sentences saying that it "is a beautiful thing when someone can take something negative (lyrics about stalking, raping, and mutilating some random lady for instance) and take something positive from it. That didn't really help me at all.

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bloodredbass, i agree, that is no sort of explanation.

i hope you guys arnt getting me wrong. i am much more concerned with the musical aspects of a band rather than the lyrics. ive only said what i have because of the thread topic. and what ive said wasnt meant to be offensive. its just my observation... and honestly, its just quite... true.

EDIT: honestly, no offense, guys. im not trying to talk shit, im just discussing the thread topic.

I took your words about 'not liking jokes in metal' and 'liking Norse mythology,' and I don't believe I changed them. If you want to turn yourself into the righteous 'you can't joke about that' guy, that's fine. But you didn't start out that way.

Anyway, to address your new position: the majority of gore lyrics aren't jokes of any quality and only get passed off as such because we don't want to believe how dumb some of our heroes are (that far I think we agree); however, their origins are in good satire along the lines of 'A Modest Proposal: For Preventing the Children of Poor People from Being a Burden to Their Parents or Country, and for Making Them Beneficial to the Publick,' and those jokes are funny if you're open to them.

Chris Barnes was the idiot, and the rest of the members of Cannibal Corpse continue to be idiots for deciding to keep writing shitty and shittier lyrics in his dumbass box while being perfectly willing to stop playing music that's restricted to pre-92 conventions. Everybody who thinks that death metal bands suffer because their lyrics are 20 times more dumb than their music could ever manage to make up for with complexity is right. Until they learn to write reasonably competent lyrics they'll always be cripples. But good lyrics are actually possible within the gore genre; aside from the satire of Carcass, an example that immediately jumps to mind is the surreal violence of Acid Bath. Rare as hell, but not impossible.

Frank Mullen, I'd like to point out, smiles quite a bit during a performance.

BassB... I wasnt replying to you directly. Im saying Timedragon cries to Ensiferum.

BloodBass... I have seen Mike Smith smile. On the Roadrunner United dvd. However it's a gay album and dvd, so it could've been a smile of homosexual triumph.


You guys are way to serious. PST, I believe it is humor, i.e. Black Humor. So you're all telling me you guys have never looked up Anal Cunt or Devourment lyrics just to chuckle at their obsurdity?
It's shocking, its ridiculous, it's burlesque; like many funny things in life. Can anyone here deny it? We have all laughed at something outrageous before.

JOAMdude:Of course you can have non-aggresive lyrics accompanying aggressive music. I think it gives a whole new light onto certain songs. The answer is right in front of you: Death. Any songs on Individual Thought Patterns (E.G Destiny, The Philosopher); some of the most powerful lyrics i've ever read.

On another note, Necrophagist. On Onset Muhammad wrote plain gore, but Epitaph is different. Epitaph is better. Some of the notions within the (short) lyrical booklet are excellent. For example on the song "Stillborn One", obviously about a stillborn baby, quite a gruesome topic, he describes it as "A book without a page". Excellent aswell.


So, I guess most bands do the whole bland boring ass (now) shocking "Entrails ripped from a virgin's cunt" lyrical deal but there are the golden moments. I don't read lyrics often, but when I do, I am neither shocked or disgusted by them, I just take them in in the way they're supposed to be, or aimed to be, and many times I am surprised by the techniques or expressions. It's all good.

i was talking more about the section where webster talks about how they continue lyrics like that because of the style of music, he says you cant have extreme music without lyrics like they have. personally i dont even listen to the lyrics, i look at death metal vocals as an instrument as opposed to singing, considering 90% of the time you cant understand them anyway. death metal vocals arent used the same way as vocals in say power metal, where they carry a melody. they are more of a rythmic thing, IMO.

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ha, I know..some of their songs are pretty powerful. At least he's deeply into the music he listens too.

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That's not deeply into music; it's being an unaware poser.

Most death metal bands aren't Anal Cunt or Death. Most gore lyrics aren't funny and aren't meant to be. You can't explain why most bands write shitty gore lyrics by saying 'Well, some bands don't.'

And it's a shame, by the way, that your lyrical expectations have been so lowered by the shit you consume that the bullshit on Epitaph actually seems more than pretentiously mediocre.

In all fairness give some examples that do not fit the mold and in YOUR opinion are well written? And why.

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Ha! Finally someone who doesn't whack Necrophagist off every time the band is mentioned. To me, the only death metal band who's lyrics are more than a 2 minute novelty is Behemoth.

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They're ok. But i most definately don't get all googlie eyed over their stuff.

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what the fuck is wrong with you.

unaware about what. im AM very emotionally impacted by the music i listen to. at least sometimes you are justified. now you're just being an ignorant asshole. that was probably the dumbest thing ive ever seen you post.

and by the way, i make music myself. doest this equal "poser". your blind negativity is astonishing.

Who cares.

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ACtually on that note. Who gives you the right to critize and obviously subjective answer to anything? How good lyrics are, is a personal determination, that doesn't have any real right or wrong answers. You make it as there is a forumla for "good writing", and i've yet to see you post one example of this from the thousands of times you've commented on writing and lyrics before.

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Oh boy. Absolute relativism and art. If there's any justice in the world, you're going to cop it now.

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Sounds more like an intuition than an actual arguement.

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A poser is absolutely concerned with image. You are concerned with whether or not there is humorous content to the music you listen to, regardless of the skill involved. Connect the dots.

As Jim said, absolute relativism is a problem. Believing that taste is subjective is a good thing, but believing that the quality of some piece of art is absolutely relative is some of the more damaging bullshit post-modernism's shoveled into our heads in its attempt to counteract the other damaging bullshit that's been shoveled in there. What I can't say is 'You're wrong for enjoying those lyrics.' But I've got every right in the world to say that they suck. And I especially have the right to, when some specific use of metaphor is held up as being particularly good, point out that it's unoriginal and pretends at intelligence - or in other words, that it sucks. I suppose that that's a question to what, rather than who, gives me that right, but since I don't know who specifically to credit with giving me literacy, an unusually broad background in poetry, lyrics, and aesthetic theory, and the ability to type on the internet, hopefully that'll do. If you really want me to get into the finer points of why taste is not absolutely subjective, you'll have to give me a few days until I can have the time for a detailed post.

As for good lyrics in death metal:

Within a gore (used somewhat loosely) mold I like Carcass for the humor, Acid Bath for the surrealism, and Pig Destroyer for the raw dirty shit, which matches the music perfectly.

Outside of gore but within death metal (and environs) I like the later Death, Meshuggah, Cynic, Lykathea Aflame, Isis on their latest, maybe another band or two. Sleepytime Gorilla Museum if they count as being vaguely death metal.

All that said, if I had to make a list of the people I have the most respect for as lyricists, metal as a whole would be fairly poorly represented, and death metal more so. Early on in its development, some decisions were made that would make a genuinely talented lyricist, a massive rarity in virtually any genre, exponentially more so. Shame, because the music often deserves some lyrical richness, but few of the people involved would know what that was.

I'll only listen to gory metal and be able to take it seriously if the band gives me the impression that they'd really do what it is they're singing/growling/whatever about if they could. I remember mentioning Mortician earlier in the thread, and that's a band that I can NOT take seriously. Poorly done gory death metal has about the same effect on me as a B-horror film with obviously fake blood and gore and obviously feigned terror.

Just like any other lyricism related to a given genre within music, I think it can be well done, poorly done, and sometimes just a joke. Sometimes the jokes make for good music too. Goratory anyone?

And I agree wholeheartedly with PST on Pig Destroyer. As desensitized as metalheads in general are, it takes a special group of minds to create something that's still unsettling and disturbing listen after listen.

Ha!!! I haven't even really been here that long but even I have learned that arguing with PST 88 is like arguing with a room full of well-educated carbon monoxide molecules. You'll never win!!

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Haha you may ACTUALLY win, but you'll never know it by the way he posts.

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haha +1

wrong. is this the only way you can make points? saying that i am saying things ive never said. i am NOT absolutely concerned with image. 3-4 years ago, i heard what was then, and is now, my favorite band. i didnt know what they were saying, what the looked like, or even what their name meant. it was the music that grabbed me. suddenly, your poser statement is WRONG. i am also not very concerned with whether or not there is humorous content, that was only concerning the people who TOLD me that gore is a joke. i appreciate very many musical acts on skill alone. im not even reading the rest of your post, because so far, all you are doing is making incorrect observations, putting them into offensive words, and then making it look as though you have god sent facts.


exactly, hes already changed enough of my words to lose any credibility there might have been.

and then what does all this come down to? people thinking i am being oversensative because i am defending myself against PST's ignorant accusations.

so go ahead PST, whip up another one if it makes you feel all high and mighty. but no matter how many words you use to force a wrong cause, its still wrong.

I only like Viking metal because it makes me look cool and I fit in with the other children.

There are definitely more brootal DM posers that listen to specific bands just because of their reputation. Especially girls I've known.

And then in a few months they've seem to "grown out" of the bands they once adored.

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Hahaha, 'force a wrong cause.' I forgot I was promoting the spread of AIDs to white Christian babies in the South and Midwest. You fucking self-righteous pussy. You're getting insulted on the internet. Take the fucking icepick out of your scrotum and wipe away the tears you exquisite Mary.

For somebody complaining about twisting words around and misquoting, you're doing quite a bit of it yourself. First of all, every poser in the world claims to love the band for the music. Self-reporting after the accusation is immediately suspect, so you can 'prove' nothing by saying 'You're wrong because I actually like the music and am not concerned with the image.' If that's all it took, nobody would be a poser.

Second, I didn't say 'timedragon is absolutely concerned with image.' If you want to say that I implied something, which is what I actually did, I implied that 'timedragon is too concerned with things outside of the art of music,' with 'image' being a synechdoche for all sorts of things that have nothing to do with the music. If you will, out of hand, dismiss a band for including humor in their self-expression (and it's a shitty world where your expressive art should be turgidly morbid), then you'll do so even when the music is good. Hence non-musical things count too much for you. Hence you're a poser. Follow? If you're going to deny dismissing all music with humorous content out of hand and the other violations against your 'I love the music for the music' claim, you're going to have to twist your words a lot more than I 'did' to do so. You'll have to go back and edit at least half of your forum posts. Have fun there. In any case, I'll discuss this with you in a PM or the RTT - or, hell, a 'timedragon's problems with PST' thread - if you want to keep going, but it's being kept out of this thread from now on.

An absolute relativist can't actually win an argument. You've disqualified yourself, and anyone else, from doing anything but not losing. And if you people paid more attention you'd notice that I'll admit that I'm wrong when I am (though sometimes it'll take months or years for me to see it). More often, though, when we're arguing we're arguing about the shit about which I've thought for hours and hours, usually exponentially more than the person with whom I'm arguing, and I seem obscure because I'm nuanced and stubborn because I've already thought of your position and rejected it months or years ago (and also because I've let my time here teach me to think very little of you people, sometimes without good reason). But you can ask Jim; I'm not just playing with words and making sophistries for you guys. I'm trying to throw you some hard-earned pearls (and yes, a brusque rejection can be a pearl) and I get frustrated whenever I see them rejected because they'd require a similar level of effort from you.

There's nothing wrong with growing out of bands you once adored unless there's anything wrong with developing as a person. It just depends on why you 'grow out.'

Oh, and talk about death metal lyrics from now on.

*ahem*



oh yeah, melodic death metal lyrics are much better.

EDIT: wait, you, calling someone self rightious.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!

Much metal is ruined for me by the complete lack of care and attention to the lyrics in it. The sound is more important than the meaning, it seems. A semioticist might applaud the honesty at work there...



Pretty true. He actually tries to tell you stuff and gets frustrated when you're too dense to read, you know, the words.

(Me, I think you're a pack of weeping herpes sores and yell at you until I lose interest or everyone else starts laughing at you.)

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I do not believe timedragon has much to "pose" about..yet I don't want to go into detail about anything really, because I'd rather not want to waste the time.


Summing up, you're all gay.

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In regards to Psts post:

You are right about the relativism statement, but that still doesn't remove the validity in the statement i said. (that is if you at least mildly agree that something as broad as art can be purely relative. Which deep inside i seriously think it is, but thats another argument for another day)

If you dont' think thats the case, you gotta bring up some pretty logical and solid arguments (without relying on intuitions) to testify to whether one piece is better than another. (this is obvious, although in many ways hard, or impossible as it relates to objectionably rating music or art in general)

At least we have one thing in common PST and thats hours beyond hours of "outside homework and analysis" of things such as this. (not claiming i have put ALOT of thought into this one) But generally (even at mt) i'll think about something for at least a week and rerespond, or not rerepsond because the topic has ended but definately have solid responses to this every day dribble.

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so surely you dont agree with the people that say not to take the internet serious? i know i dont.

He'd be pretty frustrated at this, then:


Sounds like ignorance to me.


Definantly nigga!

Fair judgement. In hindsight I see I was over hyped about the Necrophagist lyrics. They're alright, but not gobsmacking.
Death lyrics are still great, though...

To be honst i came back to jump on you for saying this but i completely misread what you wrote basically as the opposite to what you just said haha. Derrrrrrr

For the most part i completely agree with you. There is a very similar parallel you can draw between the "real world" and the internet or an "open forum." Sure at times you can have people who post under the protection of obscurity and post ridiculous things just to piss people off or things that don't accurately reflect their views, But don't people do the very same in the REAL world? I know people who do...

Also another point would be, that in an all honest debate such as this one (sorta) actual ideas get presented that would be presented in the same way that would be (or at least similar) in a face to face conversation.
With these two points it would be just as arbitrary and backward thinking to think that arguing on the internet is stupid especially in light of a "real" conversation with people.

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these are the same ways i feel about it. perhaps this thread shows why i dont want to take the time to explain why i feel that way. in fact, this thread shows how im nearly restricted from saying alot of things, on here, without consequence.


so. all your posts sound like ignorance to me. big fuckin deal.

I actually laughed out loud to that one.

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One of the highlights of Barnes' career (with a little help from Ice-T) This song makes me crack up:

ll kill all the haters
They'll nerver stop their deaths
We'll bread and burn and murder
Each of you to the last
Return to make it final
One bullet to your head
I know it just won't happen
A world that's free from pain
So I'll just use my freedom
To fucking kill and maim them
Reduce their heads with lead
Not ever gonna stop us
Not 'til the last one drops off
Not 'til they die and rot up
Not ever gonna stop
Not 'til the last one drops

One bullet left - one bullet left - one
One bullet left - one life to die - one
One bullet left - one bullet left - one

For some reason you motherfuckers think this is
Some kind of motherfuckin game
You ain't gonna realize until I got some fucking
Steel pointed at your faggot-ass face and blow your
Motherfuckin dome off your goddamn shoulders
You motherfuckin critic-ass bitch motherfuckers
Catch you comin out your motherfuckin house
Bleed!

I put the gat to your face and head and blast
Blow your fuckin face off, rock you with the
Sawed-off, blow guts all over your bitch
Leave your stankin in a six foot ditch
Run up in your house with a tek out
Duct tape your spouse with a gun in her mouth
Smack your dids up you think I give a fuck
I'll call the fuckin pigs on myself
Barricade the black with the ATF
I don't give a fuck bitch I pray for death
Grab your little girl by the neck
Bust her in the chest
And throw her on the lawn
Call CNN it's on, get this on TV
The last one's for me
Aim with the pipe down dead in my head
And squeeze
Leave the whole wall red

One bullet left, one bullet left - one
One bullet left - one life to die for
One bullet left, one bullet left - one
One bullet left - one life to die for

Always got one bullet left
One of fifty to their fucking chests

............BITCH!!

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There are people out there who actually give two shits about the lyrics in metal music?

Not average death metal, I care about melo death. Suits me and my line of thought very well.

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you're not joking, are you. read this, and tell me what you think.

Citadel of Dreams

When the cerulean sky
Is painted over with crimson
And the sun descends into the horizon
When the moon sings oneiric serenades
And we are coaxed into lethargy
Its seductive power enchants us
And opens the gates...
To the Citadel of Dreams
The bastion of illusion
Engraved with the elaborate
Archetypes of wisdom
Primordial designs embedded within
That inspire mythos
Bathed amongst pillars of light
Its ivory towers shine like bright stars
Submerged in subconscious
Within sapphire halls of deep blue
We drift and float as we slumber
Carried by the tides of languor
One by one we extend our minds
To receive precious fantasies
Infused by the lyre of the muse
With the enchantment of obscurity
Like delicate snowflakes
Melting upon flesh
These fragile memories
Are dissolved by consciousness
(And yet traces remain)
The imprints of another world
Reached only through the psyche...
The Citadel of Dreams

-Garden of Shadows.
They are melodic death, with really deep growl vocals.

......WEED ALERT

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haha. i think they're nice lyrics. good imagery and interesting topic.

holy fuck!!!! i just noticed how FBS edited my post on page two. AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! i fuckin laughed pretty hard at that... for some reason. its not even that funny. bah, GOT ME! although, thats a pretty weak ass burn. but i'll leave it.

Ha weird... and yet so subtle..

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Aww shush. You loved it.

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'Wrong cause' = self-righteous. I'm all sorts of things, many of them negative, but if you know what 'self-righteous' means, you'd know that's not me. It's the guy who actually thinks that being labelled a poser is such a transgression that he describes it in the language we reserve for atrocities.

The internet is the ultimate place to pose, and there's nothing better to pose as than the guy who takes everything more seriously than the punks around him. That said, timedragon and I agree when it comes to the opinion that the internet can and should be more than a place for douchebags to talk shit.

tmfreak: If you're going to make the assertion that art is absolutely relative, based on the fact that you 'think it is,' you're not exactly in the place to down other arguments for being intuitive. Generally speaking, I tend to think that the burden of proof is on the person making a statement like that. However, if you'd like, I'll give a brief adumbration of my argument: The human brain is wired in a certain sort of way, and most successful art actually responds to this. Because there's so much art out there, people can glom onto what's successful and imitate it to better or worse effect. While our brains are wired in a certain way, they don't come with manuals and we're often content with something mediocre; we also tend to overvalue the familiar and want to keep giving our attention to things that won it once. So there's a lot of room within this framework for relativism. However, there's also a lot of room for shitty stuff bouncing about and preying on our confusion. Basically, the ability to choose between any number of options doesn't imply that all the options are of equal value, which is the claim of absolute relativism, and with which I disagree.

Melo death lyrics (usually) do nothing for me, but at least they have to work harder to go by the numbers.