OK. Here we have a video-documentary on the possibility of a 9/11 conspiracy.

NOW WAIT

Before you try and flame the shit out of me, this has nothing to do with Michael Moore of Farenheit 9/11...this is merely a freelance write/directors perception of
gathered facts from what happened on that day...and besides that, it makes you think about a lot of possibilities of what really did/could have happened.

One of my friends who recently was discharged from the Army told me to check this out, and we are both highly optimistic gentleman due to the nature of our work...I'm not saying you have to believe this...but if you care, watch it and take it for what it is worth.

Also, don't think the idea of photoshop didn't pop into my head with a few examples of the information....I know it would if I was a producer of said materials.....but there IS however other evidence to back up the possibilty(s) that maybe such actions did occur.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised.



LOOSE CHANGE

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shit man that shit got me really thinking about it and thats really showing that the american government knows something about it

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1 hour?!?

dude that is wayyyyy too long for my internet!

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easy for my broadband

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NZ broadband is limited to 128 kbps because fucking telecom take monster black cock up the rectal passage, unless you go whoosh, but then I'd have to get a wireless router etc.

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God damn, I really don`t know what to think right know....

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This shit is insane. To be honest, Ive always believed that the government has intentionally avoided passing out important information, but this takes the cake.

If they photoshopped, they'd have to get rid of all the original videos, since they cite their sources. It's certainly not impossible, but it's less likely considering they hand you the means to nail them if they're lying.

Regardless of the video's truth, I'm happy that we live in a time where people do this. The alternative (living in a time where people just passively accept what they're told) wouldn't be pretty, especially if this is true.

On behalf of Transient, he wanted me to post these links to further add to the evidence....I haven't watched em yet because I just woke up though...

http://www.novakeo.com/

http://911research.wtc7.net/

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...795289075968133

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...yeah.

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Why was Transient banned anyway? Unfair!

I've been telling people this since it happened.

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Fuck, that's deep man...

shut up before we ban you too, you have no say in that matter. MTPD owns your ass.


on another note, I'm watching the docu now, it's pretty interesting, we get more and more of these conspiracy stuff. the video quality of the zoom ins is pretty crap so it's hard to tell if this is genuine. a passenger liner firing a missile? I dunno. I'm going to watch the rest of this too.

I guess he deserved it.

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Ok so if this evidence is true, say the US Government really planned out these attacks and caused national distress...why? Why would they kill thousands of innocent people, destroy historic landmarks, feed us lies...why?

To justify the usurption of trillions of dollars in oil?

*edit- The best parts are trying to explain how a 757 could fit into a hole in the wall of the pentagon nearly half the size of the plane itself and the explosions inside of the towers preceeding the collapse.

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wow this video really makes you think, although i don't know what to think of it, since i do not know too much about the events that took place, but this evidence they put forth is quite convincing

well, now that Harper is Prime minister, maybe you guys could have your own 9/11....

I am reminded of Napoleon. He would send units out for recon, only to have them murdered by their own troops. He would then awake the army in the morning with the news so they would strike out in retribution against the opposing armies.

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That video is giving almost absolute proof that this was a planned US invasion of the Arab world. This just keeps the history going of America smelling like a big turd

I wouldn't throw "absolute Proof" around just quite yet. Obviously there are some inconsistencies with what we've been led to believe. But the problem is, no offense, but people like you who hear everything they believe. When the original footage aired, we ate it up as pure truth, because we had been there, we had seen it. So decide your own opinions, don't let the news and documentaries set you up for a shit storm.

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Thats a good point to be made...but I have one to make as well.

If you remember...there was a big deal about discovering Billions of dollars in Iraqi bullion. Do any of you remember that? I'm having trouble researching it, but it was around 2003. A few sources I've found already have said it was fake....and that the "gold bars" were melted down shell casings.

Now if it wasn't fake...what happened to billions of dollars of gold bullion?

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I'm completely down with 9/11 theories, and I have done a lot of research on this subject. My thesis about American invasion in the Arab world, so this is a major part of it. I've seen a shit load of videos, read all the reports, wrote many responce articles, so I know my shit....and the invasion all started with Israel

"Roughly half of the government's (Israel) external debt is owed to the United States, which is its major source of economic and military aid. A relatively large fraction of Israel's external debt is held by individual investors, via the Israel Bonds program. The combination of American loan guarantees and direct sales to individual investors, allow the state to borrow at competitive and sometimes below-market rates."

Would someone mind telling me what kind of stuff is stated in this video please? I have no audio on my computer which makes it kind of hard to listen to.

You called it, dude.

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ive seen stuff like that for a few years, different conspiracy movies,dvds.my favorite and the one that seems on point was the one "the nation" magazine made<which was about the case for war in iraq more than 9/11>i forget the title. the thing that i thought was cool about this video was the videotape footage of bin laden admitting he orchestrated 911 because i always thought the dude in the video was a bit overweight,chubby that is, for a guy with kidney disease in the middle of a desert hiding.

Get real , and Elvis is still alive and so is Jim Morrison,
Yeah The US Government blew up the twin towers ,crashed a plane into the pentagon and another one into a Pennsylvannia field.
Smoke another one boys .
Im all for conspiracy theories , Marilyn Monroe , JFK , but seriously ,I could believe in santa claus easier than this dribble.

And yet you watched the whole thing?

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No the first 5 minutes was enough

Thats what I was thinking before I saw this, but now I don`t know anymore...... I think it`s a long shot to say that the american goverment is behind all of this, but I don`t belive they`re telling us the whole truth, and I thought the vid made alot of great points. Anyway, maybe I just missed it, but they didn`t mentione what they thought the goverment`s motive was? I can`t imagen what that would be that would make them sacrifice so many lives....... God damn, Im starting to feel like a hippie.

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Something to do with destroying some kind of wallstreet evidence, and maybe some evidence about the oil stealing and shit

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Then don't bother telling your opinion if you only watched 5 minutes.

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Shit if the US was stealing oil why is it over $2.50 to gas my chariot,
And why would we invade Iraq its a shithole , we should taken Saudi Arabia while we are at ,and Venezuela too .
Look Im not saving the government is angelic , theres alot of shady shit that goes down , But im not buying this crap. Sorry .

muffmaster, please save your comment if you have nothing constructive to add to the dispute, or if you only watch five minutes of the vid.

please, don't let this turn into a dissection-fox bitch fest

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Interesting, and it asks some good questions - but thats what conspiracies do.
Wheres Scully and Mulder when you need them! THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE!

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Saw this a while ago, and just watched it again. Yes, the guy does bring up some good points, but I'm still a bit cynical.

Eg. He mentions that the engines were made of a titanium alloy, then goes on to show that the melting point of titanium is such and such. Titanium and a titanium alloy surely have different properties. Unless he knows specifically what alloy was used and what properties it has, he shouldn't have put that in the doco.

Also, that closing statement "I know it's hard to imagine that our own government would murder almost 3000 innocent people. But once you begin to accept that possibility, you can no longer go back to the nineteen arabs, or melting trusses, or 'let's roll'. The official story becomes the conspiracy theory."
If you ask me, it's not too different from saying "I know it's hard to imagine that God exists. But once you begin to accept that possibility, you can no longer go back to all the scientific evidence, theory of evolution etc".

Come back with a stronger closing statement please.

I know it isn't impossible for the US government to have done this, but there's heaps of other ways they could come with something to use as an excuse to invade another country without killing THAT many people. Still, as Darko said - The truth is out there.

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Good point, that makes alot of sence.
I'm still undecided what to believe.

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I'm still pretty awestruck about the black boxes though....how they say those would burn up....but a passport would fly out of the cockpit....through a fireball...and onto the road so the FBI could pick it up...

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True, but stranger things have happened. That part does seem quite sus though, as well as the Osama confession video.

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Im trying to find the original version of the video's.It looks photoshopped to me,could be wrong though.

ah the magic bullet ,That was fucked up ,with that bullet in the JFK assassination.

Just finished watching it. It was intresting. Don; know what to belive. The videos don't look photoshopped to me

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Yeah, I didn't think they looked photoshopped either

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Yeah,The quality makes it seem that is been photoshopped,but that film was bullshit. There is logical solutions to every question that he raised,and his arguments were faulty.

soulinsane would know best but, titanium is usually mixed with aluminum for aircraft parts. i think the axis double pedal is a type of aircraft aluminum that has titanium in it.

you also bring up a good point with this that alot of thier refuations of "facts" requires specific educated knowledge of things like satelite communications<phones working at so and so altitudes>, engineering and metalurgy<steel structure threshholds,properties of metals> and chemistry,physics etc.<heat of burning jet fuel,how impact resistant concrete stands against cruise missles or a huge commercial jet.> anyone can crunch thier half-assed gorrilla math and make thier really stilted narrowminded case. this is why you need experts speaking in thier own words, not like some letter sent to so and so, or some university study that this documentary half explained and maybe left out something.

That's why, if you care, you follow up on their references. It wouldn't be hard to check out the original videos with some editing equipment, or look into these studies yourself. It's what you would, or at least should, do if this were any essay, so why not here? They give you all the references, it would be easy. Not as easy as simply believing it or being skeptical, but not as hard as if they hadn't.

That's if you care, though.

not to be controversial , why cant people accept the simple fact that 9/11 was not a conspiracy orchestrated by the US government with Israeli backing.The plain truth is that 9/11 was done by 19 Islamic radicals who were funded and trained by Osama Bin Laden and Al Queda .
that 9/11 was just a continuation of the first WTC bombing in 93 and the furtherance of other global terrorist acts.

I think and I hate to say that simple.

That's the least controversial thing you could say. Most people do accept that. Only a fairly small amount of people find something fishy about it.

I've came to a conclusion (a very lazy one, mind you) that I'm just going to stop trying to figure out who'se fault it is, what actually happened, because... and I'm sorry if I offend, I'm beginning not to care anymore who did it/who'se fault/who'se in on it.. ect.

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This video raised some good questions, but there's also a lot of bullshit about it.
The main thing that bothers me is how they say "Make your own conclusions" and then force hardcore theories down your throuat. This video is one extreme, the official government explanation of the 9/11 events is another. Somewhere in the middle is the truth.
I remember reading about this vid on the Megadeth boards and some people making really good points about it. I've even seen some sites that call bullshit on some of the things in the video and offer proof to back it up such as links, photos, all kinds of shit. I don't remember these sites, and I don't have them written down anywhere, sorry.

I do recall seeing how the hole shown in the video is a hole in the internal wall of the Pentagon, whereas the hole in the external wall is much larger, or something like that.

Also, the people saying "It sounded more like a cruise missile than a jetliner". C'mon. To rougly quote Maddox: "When did these people become experts on the sonic signature of a cruise missile?".

And while this video might to some extent be full of shit, thank God there are still people out there who are willing to question the official answers we are spoonfed daily.
I personally don't think the U.S. government necessarilly orcherstrated the whole ordeal, but I'm fairly sure they knew it was gonna happen and they let it happen on purpose. The minute those planes hit those towers, the government officials started yelling Iraq. Next thing you know, they're pulling Saddam out of a hole and taking over his country. And while this may not have been an altogether bad thing, ( I mean let's face it, the man is a class A scumbag ), who are we to tell them how to run their country? The people of Iraq could've overthrown this guy, yet they never did. They also never asked for our help, so why are we there? Look what happened now, the prisons were opened, and now instead of dealing with one big scumbag, we are dealing with hundreds of smaller ones.

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It's 2.50 because the U.S. is stealing oil that they want no one to know about. Also another reason is profit. If they can charge that much, hell why not? It's more money in their pocket for next to nothing.


Mainly oil. However after 9/11 the Bush administration probably felt weak from the attacks. Whats a good way to stimulate the economy and make the people forget what happened? Create a war. Also, invading Iraq gives the US more influence on the Arab world (already having troops there ect)


However they did only find one of those engines, and it didn't even match the plane they had on the radar.



Because oil is money, money drives greedy men. The US saw an oppertunity and took it. All the stories, everything about the 9/11 attack/invasions reeks of fish. And one more thing. If the planes that flew into the WTC contained those 19 terrorists, how the fuck are they still alive?

im talking about thier presentation, i know you can check into who they cite, what im saying is how they use the information, i should of been more clear. you can still stilt and spin stuff to forfill your own conclusions upon data that not necessarily flawed. they should of interviewed people qualified to speak on behalf of those crucial points.

another thing. the steel in that structure doesnt necessarily need to reach the melting point. the narrator forgot the fact that steel is not silly puddy and for every piece of steel there are many welds to hold this steel together and the fact that the stress,trauma,vibration upon said structure and welds factors greatly into its stability. those building were swaying back in forth, maybe a few feet that you couldnt notice by eyesight alone but there was alot of strain on the framing. i know from forging steel that heating recycled shit re-bar up about 800-1000 degrees, the shit get real bendy like <silly puddy> which is all thats needed, welds will seperate from the steel. vibration is the greatest threat to a weld, this is why on occasion carnival rides,rollercoasters fall apart with people on board. had the narrator had a expert on board they could of maybe hashed these things out.

edit: i actually dont know how hot that heatbox i was using when forging was, but the thing is the metal was maliable well before it glowed orange and yellow

before I say this, No I didn't watch it but I am going to put this logical argument in here:

if I was a government and wanted to invade another country and use a pretext such as 9/11 to do so, I would not have an end result like 9/11

here is my reasoning:

if you sell the line that another country made a terrorist attack on your own it causes the following problems:

Your defence sucks if a couple of arabs can sneek on an airplane the means to crash is into a building.

why take out both towers, and a section of the pentagon? why not fly a lesser plane (a turboprop freight plane for example) into one of the towers, causing enough of the desired effect without the huuuge loss of life.

why not do it on a day or time when there might be less of a human loss of life? rather than broad day light on a working day?

why not allow the attack to be partially intercepted? this not only gives your armed/police forces a credit boost (The SAS after the Iranian embassy sieg anyone?) but also allows the justification to invade other countries, and if it half intercepted the huge life toll is minimized yet all emotion of a terrorist attack is continued

the GLOBAL downturn in the economu and US.

The Huuuuuge Financial loss suffered by the Airline Companies


all these factors make it unlikley that the US government would do it, I mean they could, but they would have to be pretty fucking dumb.

oh wait.......

but seriously all those factors from a terrorist POV are great, even the invasion of Iraq, gives strength and Matyrdom to the Islamic Anti US sentiments, Yet from the US POV even the trillions gained in Oil, would make such a move very VERY risky etc.

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That wasn't my point, my point was that he wasn't presenting the right facts. My guess is that the melting point of the titanium alloy is actually higher than titanium, but still, you have to be specific and accurate. If he can fuck that up, then there's a chance he's fucked up other "facts" in his doco as well.

But someone summed it up pretty well already: There's the government's version, this version and the truth is most likely somewhere inbetween.

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Hysteria like this always comes out of events like this.

the pentagon is shaped the way it it because its an occult symbol of power, its also a runic gate..............it holds a creature called yog soggoth beneath, when that cruise missle hit the side it broke the seal. so the demon/robot/oracle has been unleashed, its currently watching porn movies at kim jong ils mansion, baking some yellow cake for iran. if only the usa can stop it!!!

There are things I know I can call BS and others I know different about. Much of this video is BS but other things that have deeper explanations. Some of the things brought up in the video I have asked about myself, mostly about the Pentagon. Much of this video is just taking a simple fact and exploiting the hell out of it to lead people believe shit that is indeed a conspiracy theory. Darko said it best.



I don't have the interest, the time to explain, teach the needed knowledge to understand, or confront all the total BS I seen in this vid. Does the "government" system cover/lie about things? Yes. Yes the "government" does cover some mistakes and I know it but "they" learn from it at the same time and there is PR at stake for unification. Does the whole fucking world need to know that "so and so" made a decision that turned out bad? Believe me, they get delt with on a personal level. Did all those judging people watching TV on the couch think they could have done better? After the fact the decisions looks easy. Unpretty things happen to protect many others sometimes. Their are not large nunbers of "they", "government", or "tyrants" that are working to control the US people so just give that ideal up now. There is no "THEY". The people run this system and the people are just like you, if not actually you, or will be you.

But lets talk about facts!

Here is a man that I can leave an realistic example with...


You got it perfect here. You people need to listen to this man. A building on fire may not fall on its self but they do fall a natural specific way once enough trama is applied to the structure. Has anyone ever seen a building fall over on its side, and I don't mean a moble home or a 3 story ancient art? These types of buildings, like the WTC, are made to withstand fire damage for days maybe but not fire and structural damage at the same time and once they start to fall they don't normally stop and the metal doesn't need to reach melting temperatures to weaken. No one dreamed that someone would ever want or might be able to fly a funking jet at full speed into buildings. THAT IS FACT! Tell me one building designed for that? How do you plan for that? Why not plan for a volcano erupting under it? I don't even want to get into the science of metals and melting. There is more to it then most people know. If you want to level a building the easy and fast way is to take the main structural supports out and let gravity and mass do the rest. All the mass on top will do the hard work for you. They all fall about the same. If you want to take longer to destroy some steel built structure then take out some supports and set it on fire. The result will be the same. It will fall with time.

Once it starts the mass will force air downword in the building and if the windows are not blown out and the building is sealed ( like most large high buildings are ) then the air pressure can flash into a spark, explode, and blow shit out like an explosion. The same thing happens infront of large high speed objects about to impact, which explains the flash infront of the planes before they hit the WTC. Air doesn't just move out of the way as easy as it seems. It DOES flask. There is a tiny shrimp that makes it happen under water. Its call the Pistol Shimp. It creates a air bubble that collapes, creates a flash, and uses the sonic shock wave to kill pray and enemies.

How do I know all this? On a sub there are pressures outside that want to come in. If they find even a small way in then the air can compress so fast that it will flash into a fireball so hot that it kills everyone within seconds. If you don't believe me then do some research or try it.

I'm done here. I avoid threads that demand me to doublethink ( yes, a 1984 reference ) so here is a fun fact:

To destroy a small home/structure then see if it's got a basement, wait until there will be freezing weather, open a pipe that will fill the basement with water, once it reaches freezing point it will expand dramatically, bust the foundation, and the place will fall or cost a ton of money to repair.

Have fun, I'm drunk and will be deleting this tomarrow

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delete all you want sarge, I like what you said, and I'm keeping it. (BTW, I'm drunk too.)

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Cheers

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I only believe a few things from that video...

1: Stuff like that wouldn't surprise me, because I know how the government treats service members...so what's 3000 innocent lives them? Its not like we are under-populated or anything.

2: The passport/black-box thing still trips me out, I hope to god that isn't true.





I'm drunk...thats it for now

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There are some who believed that FDR knew about the Japanese attack on Pearl harbor in 1941 before it happened and allowed it to happen to get America into the war . Not that I was around but my pops tells me the country at the time prior to Dec 7th 1941 largely wanted to stay out of "europe's war ".So what better way to mobilize the country have our fleet at pearl harbor be bombed.
Now history tells us our aircraft carriers were conveniently out to sea ,and the truth be told what was attacked was old mothballed battleships like the arizona that was built in like 1911, Many of the ships that were atacked were raised and refitted and saw action later in the war.
Now for some reason I can believe that they knew the Japanese were going to attack but for some strange reason I seriously doubt that Bush had advanced knowledge of 9-11 .
I dont know , I just feel that way.

And Jack the ripper was a royal who killed the prostitutes to silence them because the Fenian ( Irish ) Whore Mary Kelly was pregnant with a Royals baby who could have possible ascended to the throne . Same reason why Diana was murdered to keep her and her arab boyfriends baby from the British Throne.

Audio cut out at 53:00, kind of funny/ironic, its the part wit the cell calls and all i heard was "i see trees... and water... oh my god.... OH MY G(BEEP)!" it was the narrator reciting it, but it was still pretty weird, cause he put like felling into it.

EDIT: The audio didnt cut out, it just got extremely quiet.

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Diana wasn't in succession for the British throne. Any children she had fathered by a non-Royal wouldn't be either. And, if she were, the British throne these days is purely ornamental and worthless, certainly not worth murdering to protect from getting into the wrong hands. The only thing her children would be in line for is the Earldom of Spencer, which is even more worthless. I wonder how the hell that rumor got started.

You're right in saying that the presentation is sloppy. It is, and I would want any kind of essay on the subject to hold itself to a higher standard. But this is somewhat mitigated by the inclusion of source materials to which we have access. When I come across something like this, which is imprecise and makes extreme claims, if it interests me at all I'm going to research it. For example, all this talk about the melting point of a titanium alloy has gotten me to look that up and find that it's typically 1668 degrees Celsius. This doesn't strike me as particularly precise as in my research I've learned that there are a variety of titanium alloys out there of different properties, so I keep looking and see that this number is probably the average of the melting points of the various alloys. Now I have the answer to a question I wouldn't have asked unless I watched the video. So, while I think the video itself is somewhat worthless, it's valuable in that it doesn't hide its sources and raises questions that have to be answered. That is, if we care and aren't too lazy to find the answers. Everybody in this thread so far is too lazy to find answers, but not to post an opinion.

Now, we've been talking about how there's an official 'truth,' this 'truth,' and the truth, somewhere in between. This is probably right, but there's something that recommends this 'truth' as being closer to the truth: that we're given the sources from which this hypothesis was supposedly assembled. We're usually denied access to those that form the government's 'truth.' If I actually wanted to have a legitimate opinion on the subject, I'd go and look this shit up. I don't feel I have one now, so I've tried to limit myself to saying that the best thing about the video is that you can check its facts. Somebody go check them, or just shit-can the out-of-hand skepticism or belief. Don't half-ass curiosity.

Don't fuck with the P-S-T.

Its great to see somebody actually check the resources. Hell the guy could have made the video with false facts just to insult conspiracy freaks.

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[QUOTE=PST 88]Diana wasn't in succession for the British throne. Any children she had fathered by a non-Royal wouldn't be either. And, if she were, the British throne these days is purely ornamental and worthless, certainly not worth murdering to protect from getting into the wrong hands. The only thing her children would be in line for is the Earldom of Spencer, which is even more worthless. I wonder how the hell that rumor got started.

I just stated that to show the retardness of this bogus film.Theres no way to keep a plot like that a secret without someone blowing the lid .
Another conspiracy is that TWA flight 800 was shot down by a USS warship doing excerises off Long Island

You shouldn't have included the FDR/Pearl Harbor thing in that post. There's actual legitimate evidence in that case, not just the paranoid interpretations of conspiracy theorists. These kinds of files get released periodically, but only decades after the fact, when nobody involved can any longer be hurt, so it's not entirely absurd that something would happen without a leak.

Basically I don't find the situations analogous, because that claim can be refuted out-of-hand based on the fact that the goal is neither worth attaining nor something the players involved would bother murdering and lying to attain. In this case, we have some instances in the past of our government lying and even allowing terrible things to happen as a pretext to start a war that wouldn't have had popular support otherwise. So there are only the questions of whether there's reason to believe the government wanted a pretext to become involved in the Middle East, and whether they'd be willing to go to such extremes. From what I know, the former can't be proven or dismissed (certainly not as easy as Diana's non-Royal child being in line for British succession), and the latter would involve a certain level of ruthlessness (calculating that a catastrophe on this level would be necessary, as the suggestion brought up here of a prop plane resulting in little loss of life wouldn't do the trick; we needed something shocking enough that the rest of the world would be shamed by our loss until they became overwhelmed with disgust for our actions. If you remember 2001-2 very well, we had a lot of international sympathy we would not have had with a half-assed tragedy) of which I have no idea if the people involved are capable. Summation? I don't know enough to say 'this is bullshit' or 'this is the truth.' I'd have to look into all of this myself, and I really hate burying myself in a mound of conspiracy theory evidence, so I'm sticking with 'I don't know.' Everybody else do the same, unless you do know. Then let us know. Then everybody can know.

There is evidence that the British broke the Japanese code and knew they were planning on attacking pearl harbor , and they knew we would be drawn into the war. Furthermore it is suggested that Churchill elected to remain mum and not tell us. who knows , What I really want to know who killed JFK , and it wasnt Lee Harvey Oswald at least by himself.

And where's your undisputable research on that subject?

Well, I finally saw the video.
That sound cut out at 53 minutes was a little interesting......ans so was the part on the bin laden confession tape.

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Have you not watched history channel ?, actually I dont know if thats true or not , but that was the point for all those who actually believe this little ditty about how the US government plotted this attack for some nefarious reason which I find fucking retarded ,
Im not saying the Government is polly pure bread , Gulf of Tonkin incident anyone , The battle ship Maine which was probably blown up by some sailor smoking in the magazine room , or even there is a suggestion the US government after being warned by the Germans that all ships believed to be carrying war materiel to England would be sunk allowed the Lusitania which was allegedly carrying armourment to the british under guise of a passenger ship to be sunk , thus drawing us in the war in 1917

Again the point I dont know , but there are a few MT folks who believe this film as much as if it was written by god and bought down by Moses on Mt. Hebron.

Just this po boy's honest opinion

Recently I've noticed that your well thought-out opinions really hold up prestige around here. Not to mention clarity! You are a contribution. Thank you!

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It must be true then...

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Very interesting, does make you think..

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I'll say it one last time. If those planes that crashed into the WTC and Pentagon contained those 19 terrorists they showed to you on the film, how the fuck are some of them still alive?

Whose still alive , why have you seen them at your local convenience store lately ????

, so true.

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I watched the (cough) film....

My opinion with very little actual research is.

My gov did not participate nor help in the attacks.
However...many in my gov knew within seconds after the attack....it was PERFECT for forwarding agendas that would never be possible without such an event.

So...many crocodile tears were shed....and ALOT of money was made and is still being made. Also new idologies (sp?) that were unpopular are now reasonably acceptable.

Like I said, official government documents have been released that suggest FDR knew. This happens every now and again; the last time it happened famously were the publication of the 'Pentagon papers.' You don't need to watch the History channel and rely on it to tell us about what Churchill may or may not have known.

But I wonder if powers was asking about your evidence for the JFK assassination, which is oddly analogous to this one on the tape. We don't know in either case, but in both cases, the official story seems suspect, and for good reason, regardless of your personal feelings on the matter. The other funny thing about the JFK assassination is that you're never going to prove anything definitively about it, there are always people who're going to feel that any solution but Oswald is fucking retarded. Either keep clear of the conspiracy theories altogether or learn some consistency; we don't need lazy skepticism any more than we need lazy curiosity.

Ideologies.

Oh, and I'd like to make it clear that I don't actually buy into this film. I just think you've either got to put in the effort to address it seriously or shut the fuck up. Preferably the latter. Hell, you can shut the fuck up even if you put in the effort to learn about it. That's perfectly acceptable to me.

Yeah, I was thinking of that. The point was that the JFK assisination will never be changed from the verdict that already exists. The one thing that might change anythng is a stupid woman who was recording it in one of the buildings neaby, but she was so shitty that the camera bounced all over the place, and no investigators could get a clear sight of the shooting. The main evidence was probably pure circumstance.

Come to think of it, I think I may have gotten that from a history channel show years ago.

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Jo Moore, a political adviser to then Transport Secretary Stephen Byers famously remarked in a memo to Byers that 9/11 was "a very good day for burying bad news". At the time, Byers was under enormous pressure regarding the performance of Railtrack, the UK's main rail operator at the time.

(Unscrupulous) People will always seek to further their own agendas no matter whether they had a hand in the "diversionary event" or not. The act of doing so does not associate by implication, or at least it shouldn't.

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the biggest problem is the pentagon it seems to me. the rest is up to science and not me to speculate on. but the pentagon, visually and conceptually (270 degree turn, inches above grass, amt of reckage) seems very sketchy

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yeah, thats what caught my attetion too.

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The Pentagon seems more bullshitty, but it also seems consistent with the government hitting themselves for effect without doing real damage. The towers is where the meat is, because doing that would be extremely fucked, rather than just extremely opportunistic (the speed with which they hit the pentagon not withstanding).

the whole "losing communication" thing also seems quite odd. as in not being able to contact or shoot down the plane for an hour as it redirected itself

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On 9/11/2001 - Three WTC towers collapsed from fires which were not hot enough to do what they supposedly did. Each tower fell at the speed of free fall into their own footprints. Larry Silverstein owned all 3 buildings. Buildings closer to the collapsed WTC 1&2 which were not owned by Silverstein did not collapse. Convenient.

Larry Silverstein collected 3 BILLION DOLLARS in an insurance payout he took out only months before the attacks.

Larry is VERY close friends with Bibi Netanyahu (fmr Israeli PM who on 9/11 said that the attacks were 'good for US / Israeli relations')

Larry is the guy who went on PBS and said that WTC7, (the 47 storey building who's offices included that of the CIA and FBI and Rudy Guiliani's 'bunker', which collapsed 'controlled demolition style' after a few small fires) was 'pulled'.

'i remember getting a call from the eh, fire department saying they couldnt contain the fire, so i said the smartest thing to do is to pull it, and thats when they made the decision to pull'


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1...LL_wtc-7_1_.gif

Notice how the penthouse collapses first. This is how demolitions are carried out. This way the building collapses in on itself forming a neat pile of rubble.

WTC7 is THE smoking gun of 9/11. If 7 was brought down in a controlled demolition (which for a building of this size, would take longer than 6 hours to rig) from a 'surprise attack', is it not safe to say that 1 & 2 (which both came down 'demo style' were rigged to go too?

We live in dangerous times, with very shady people in very high positions of power. I think ive just defacated