I have a problem here. I basically began listening to music because people were able to make me free copies of cds, which caused me to buy cds (sometimes from the same bands I got copies from). I began that almost 4 years ago, and since then I've bought about 145 cds, and I have maybe about 15-30 copied cds.

About illegal downloads and cd copying, I've always taken the side of "this doesn't hurt the band! Fuck the greedy record companies!". While I've taken the side of illegal downloads as being it's fine to take one or 2 songs from a band just to hear what they sound like (or thier particular album sounds like for that matter) is perfectly fine, the action of copying cds is starting to bother me. Even though I know that cd copying on a personal level, meaning someone buys a normal cd and copies it for a couple friends or so, has in the past proven not to harm sales at all and in fact sometimes improve general sales which was the point of my rant in the first paragraph, your still taking a damn cd from a band, which is essentially stealing, even though in the long run bands and companies aren't really hurt. Its a very odd thing. And even though they aren't hurt in the long run, when you copy cds you still didn't pay for it, but then the other side of my brain says its fine and blah blah blah blah. Should I have to go back and look through my cds for cds I didn;t pay for and go ahead and buy the cds or something?!?!!?!

Could someone help me out here???

and also, for those who need it repeated for them, Im talking about CD COPYING, not illegal download services, so don't tell me about how its not true that it doesn't hurt bands or companies because record labels have been recently losing cash, because now they blame it on people going on the internet with thier ipods and sharing music so people get all thier cds off illegal downloads and never actually spend a cent on music.

if i like the band and cd and have it copied. then it i have some spare cash and theres nothign else the store has that I want ill pick up the real copy. but in this music the artists get pittle shit from cd's and the copying burning dl of songs/albums can greatly help then get none. which will make people go see them and buy other merchandise which is realyl where the band makes their money

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somebody said this recently-

if you like a band and want to support them, buy their t shirt and download the album. its more beneficial to them


i get mp3s of bands all the time, more than i intend to buy

heres a couple of my points/rationalizations


-if a band i like comes to town, ill go see them and spend 20-40 bucks at the merch booth
-sometimes ill buy the actual cd just to have it, evne if i have them mp3s
-a good portion (50% or more) of the mp3s i have are by bands i wouldnt buy albums from. ill listen to it becasue tis free, but i wouldnt pay 12 bucks for a lot of the stuff i listen to

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i download a song to see what it sounds like and sometimes make a cd. but its only from bands that i think sound cool and are new. cuz i couldnt do that to somone like jason becker. i buy albulms if i know their good, i guess its like saying u listen before u buy it.

haha didnt read this part, but its the same thing weather you dl it or get it copied from a bud. both ways its illigal and both ways started with someone having the original cd to get the songs from. so why should it matter if its copied or dl

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Like 90% of my money goes to CDs, I have a pretty vast collection. I still download stuff though. My vindication is that I buy waaaaay more CDs than anyone I know (I usually get atleast like 3 new ones per week), so I have no reason to feel guilty.

Agreed. If I feel a band is worth supporting (i.e., if I like what my buddy downloaded for me), then I'll go out and buy their CDs. I have all of the Godspeed You! Black Emperor albums on my computer. Since really getting into them, I have since bought 3 of their 4 albums. And agalloch? Same thing. Personally, having the CD makes me happier than just having the music, because you miss out on alot (IMO) when you don't have the artwork and such.

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Speaking of Agalloch albums...I finally have their entire discography as I blew 50$ on their first demo. Yep thats right, even all the LPs (except The Mantle, but I have the CD)

which one is their best

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Depending on the mood I'm in, I'd say either Pale Folklore or The Mantle.

hah wtf, those are the only two albums they have haaha

For more Black/Doom Metal: Pale Folklore
For more Progressive Metal, while still remaining partially black, and still very doom metal: The Mantle.

I've always been torn between the two. 'Pale' gets my vote on the fact that the last 4 songs are my favorite that they've ever done. Well, fuck. The entire album is incredible. Period.

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Guilt is for suckers.

They also have:

The Grey ep
Tomorrow Will Never Come ep
From Which of this Oak
Agalloch/Nest Split LP
Of Stone Wind and Pillor

dont ep's usualy just have songs from their 'read' albums? or 'differnt' versions of them?

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Not always (thats usually "singles")

The Agalloch EP songs aren't on the full lengths. They have a very unique writing style, hence the reason they don't release very much at a time.

ah ok thanks then

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hey dissection I just realised that one of your old avatars came from their album cover for mantle haha

way to hijack a thread eh

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The Mantle is so fuckin good

do you have their split with nest pic lp?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Agalloch-Nest-s...1QQcmdZViewItem

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Yea, got it from TER the first day it came out. Hah I've tabbed "Wolves of Timberline"

ok, alot of people will get the actual LP and not realize theres pic disc too. thought i'de mention it

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Thanks for the look out

But all they released was the Pic Disc, no LP or CD. My current rarity search is the Katatonia Jhva Elohim Meth red transparent cassette (100 made). I already have the Blue one (100 made) and the clear one (50 made). Expensive fuckers

I just drool over vinyls. tapes are rarer alot of times but I dont care about tapes. where do you check for this stuff just ebay?

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Sure did. Not that I didn't explain that 30 times...

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like i remember anyting you say

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Yea, I have my fair share of rare metal vinyls too. And because I like to brag, I'll name a few of my favorites heh.
Katatonia- Jhva Elohim Meth (Blue Vinyl)
Katatonia- For Funerals To Come Pic Disc
Katatonia- Dance of December Souls
Diabolical Masquerade- Nightwork
Ulver- Bergtatt
Primordial/Katatonia Split
In Flames- Reroute to Remain

My dream is to get the Katatonia- Brave Murder Day red Vinyl...but only 1 was made and Mikael Akerfeldt has it

Why would you want reroute to remain on vinyl?
And why would you want Brave Murder Day at all. I think that album is utter shit, as I think I have already explained.

As far as copying of CDs. None of my friends even get CDs, the cheap fucking bastards, so that isnt an option.

Vinyls cant be copied (in any conventional way - its a pain in the ass to do it).

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where the fuck did you get that?! the only one I have ever seen outside their vinyls box set is nattens madrigal

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Jonas from Katatonia had 3 of them, sold one on Ebay, then someone told me he had 2 more, so I emailed him and he sold me one of the others. From what I know, something like only 20 were printed. I could be wrong though.

I'm going to send you some agalloch (GD). I'll start with a personal favorite.

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Why did you quote me for that?

yea really, and why even mention it just send me the AIM message

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It's Dissection.
That's why!

Now where did the topic at hand go?

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hmm on topic...uh im dl mantle!

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Because I was going to ask if you had it on CD/Computer, but then I forgot. I'm really tired, man. lay off a little.

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Hear hear.

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aside from the ticket price, i usually buy 2 t-shirts every concert i go.

that way, i know the money is heading straight to the band.

as for copies and downloads, i buy like, 1 original for each 20 burns.

Sure, buying merch is more directly beneficial to the band, but if you don't support the labels as well by buying the CD's, then there is no/much less money for touring and therefore no/much fewer chances to sell merch.

I'm like BoC, I'm the only one amongst my friends that normally buys CD's. Getting a CD-R off them is basically never an option.

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this topic got raped and pillaged.

Yes, but would you have rather chatted about whether or not he should buy CDs he owns burned? No, that would've died at the second page. Oh wait, it did.

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Even though you guys have mostly convinced me that cd burning isn't so bad as long as you make an effort to support the bands you can, this guy has a point, even though the record companies get more money than they should, they still should get payed.

I can't decide between the 2 agalloch albums which is my "favorite", they both are incredibly good.

Haha,

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Bill, when is that quote of M=L from? Fucking ancient!

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its from that, "how big is your cock" thread

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*uses the search button*

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ive been considering pushing a spoon up my ass...any suggestions?

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Put it sideways. Make it more interesting.

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well, theres no solution to this problem. ever.

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I agree that guilt is for suckers haha. But if it were up to me, id buy nothing but cds! Some of us dont have money to go around buying cds all the time. But whenever i have money ill be sure to buy stuff.(Cds,Merch) As long as you truly support that band and go out to their shows and present your enthusiasm.I think that alone will be worth more the money. But yeah, the bigger bands cant always succeed with fan's enthusiasm alone. If that made any sense...

Which side of the spoon...the bowl, or the handle

In the 80's record labels were worried about people taping vinyl on to cassettes but it didn't kill the industry.

Labels see artists as commodities, they deal in sales and figures not the creative process. They are a business.

The record labels do more harm to music than us punters do.
They forced out vinyl by reducing the quality of pressings so CD's would sound better, plastic got thinner, extra tracks and lyrics appeared on CD's only, sound quality dipped. They claimed it was because albums were getting longer and vinyl couldn't support the longer running times and maintain the sound quality. This is a lie as vinyl can support up to 60 mins of music on one side without any lose of sound quality. They claimed CD's would last longer. I have vinyl that's over 30 years old that still play better than CD's got 3 years ago! What company in it's right mind would manufacture something that would last forever???
Isn't it funny that dance DJ's still use vinyl and that in this digital age, software has been designed to put the life and crackle back onto recordings to emulate vinyl characteristics!?

Record labels have ripped us off. How many times have you bought a CD on it's release date to find 2 months down the line a digi pack version with bonus material comes out? Or a band signs to a new label and their back catalogue gets re-issued with extra material!
Over here in the UK CD's are over priced. Extreme music is priced higher in the High Street stores than other chart fodder.

Record labels have split more bands than a bus load of Yoko Ono's!
How many bands have called it a day because of label pressure or politics?
How many bands have lost control of their music or recordings?
How many bands have been signed as a tax loss and recieved no label support? (Most of Motorhead's career springs to mind!)
How many bands have been unfairly dropped?
How many albums have been delayed or failed to surface because the label didn't like what the artist has produced?

Labels at the moment are shitting bricks because they failed to latch on to the market share of downloading sooner and realise it's potential.

I find it funny that Lars bleats on about illegal copying when Metallica's early career relied on the underground tape traders! Heck I had a poor quality recording of 'No Life Till Leather' before 'Kill 'em All' came out!!

Record sales make up a very small per cent of the bands income the rest is tickets and merchandise, so buy a t-shirt and get in the pit next time they come to town!

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Dahmer has alot of good ideas. Makes some good points.

Now, as for getting ripped off, the bigger labels will shit all over you. Most major indie labels have artists of a certain genre or style, and do not interfere with the music.

And yeah, CoF got dropped from Sony, didn't they? I know they are on Roadrunner now, but I'm not sure exactly what happened.

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Yep, I enjoy buying cd's, getting a collection is nice. I like to think that it will support the band in some way (which it does, more money to record companies means more advertising, recording sessions, and tours) I rarley ever burn downloaded music onto cd's, as do i rarley ever download music. But if I hadnt had downloaded Onset of Putrefaction, then I would have never bought that or Epitaph, because I wouldn't have known how good it is. Hell I used to download entire disco's to see if I liked the band, if I do then ill buy their shit, If I dont its not like anyones lost anything, it just saves me a pretty penny not to go out and buy a shitty CD I wont like, so in actuallity it doesnt steal money from the label it just doesnt gain them money from shitty music you would have never bought in the first place.

Now I will go sit in my corner shove limes and spray tabasco in my eyes because of my terrible punctuation and spelling, and massive rambling on about random shit that really had no point to what cloaca posted i just quoted him to partially agree with how he deals with cd's.

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yes, because in actuallity, most people like to have MP3s, but feel empty without a music collection. Because thats exactly how I feel. I wish I was even able to download my own music, because so much less of my money would be wasted on shitty albums that I unfortunately own *coughVADERcoughREVELATIONScough*

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haha well now I know not to get that vader CD. I havnt heard much vader but ive heard that they are like decapitated, plus they use rans Whats a good vader album

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litany.

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Wanna know a good Vader cd? Cosmic Genesis by Vintersorg.

sounds good

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personaly, i dl bout al my music, i own a few cd's, but i dont like most of em, i mean, i dont like every song on an album, i mean.. lol.... say i buy a necrophagist al;bum, wich is an awesome band to me, il oprobaly ionly like 3/4 song from the album, qmaybe just some parts of those songs, i can honoustly say heres isnt i single song i completely like, theres always some part that bores me, doesnt sound col, whatever, so i wont pay 20 or whatever euros for a cd, if im not gonna like 30 % of it, i usualy skip everysong through to the solo (if i like those), its been a long timew since ive listened to ful songs, or albums... maybe im just a lunatic

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....

yep.

No, I think you are just DRUNK. That paragraph looks butchered, and you usually type just fine.

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I know. It is literally the only Vader CD that is in stock ANYWHERE around here. I got that two years ago, and seriously, have never seen a different album of Vader's. I can't believe it.

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Well, I geuss I made the good choice when I blindly bought a vader cd cuz I heard it was good...I've never heard any other vader cd.

But a problem I still have is alot of the bands I like DON'T have real criminal record labels like the pop artists do...so if I go on a corperation rant big business blah blah blah then I am just forgetting about the indie labels who ARE try to preserve good music.

Even though Dahmer's Fridge did make a pretty good point.

dahmers is a wise old man. dont ever forget that


litany rules and is the best vader cd but i like revelations and the new one too so who are you to trust me :P its generally agreed as the best vader cd though

anyways

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Remember that a lot of indie labels or 'metal' labels are often owned by majors.
In this day and age with the internet and computer software it will be so much easier for bands to record their own tunes how they want, create the art work they want and sell it direct to the fans via their own web site. It's just a 21st century variation on the punk ethic of 'do it yourself'.
And I think music will be healthier and more diverse if it's done this way.

Mmmm, wise old man eh! I shall grow a long beard and sit in a temple high on a mountain
I ain't wise, I've just seen too many bands get shafted and too many scenes get polluted or killed off because people who know nothing about (nor care about)the running of such things get involved.

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