I'm a little bit curious about this, so bear with me - how many people here knew about the following minor and insignificant developments?

1. British cabinet admits Iraq war was a con job.
2. Scads of documents released within the last day or so confirming this.

P.S. If all you want to say is "who ccarez about iraq fuckerzzzz bomb tehm all!!!11" then try sniffing glue instead of posting.

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All American glue is non-toxic.
Eh, really. I always enjoy your posts and try to keep my annoying ass out of them, but this one just confused me. My brain's not up to thinking on these subjects this morning, I suppose. So gasoline will have to do.

All I know is 300 billion.

300 billion shot to hell and the working poor are the first to feel that pinch. And I am...the working poor.

interesting, but not much we can do for four years anyways.

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No offense but there is a usualy reason why people are the working poor. Lack of skill. I'm no green-blooded capitalist, but frankly, it is the working poor's fault they are working poor, and since they are pretty much the most expandable of all of society's people, should feel the pain before others.

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None taken.

Yes...I can see the fact at 12 I was forced to move into my older alcoholic dick chasing sisters apt...live with her madness and somehow graduate highschool and end up where I am now, alone and working and *poor.
The kids my age going to law school funded by mommy and daddy or a loan (that I cant obtain) should not feel the pinch at all. They deserve their luck and I, according to you...have done this to myself.

I'm going to try and contemplate this for a while.


* when I say poor I mean by the societys standards in which I live.
I'm fully aware that on a human scale....I'm one of the more fortunate people on the planet....that's what helps keep my sanity. The fact that there are millions of humans that would trade their problems for mine in an instant.

Agreed. When I see one of those starving third-world-country kids on the television set in the comfort of my unappreciated everyday happiness and health dying in incoherent pain, it makes me feel much better about myself.

Just fucking with you, by the way. I get your point. But even those "poor" people in the world have things to appreciate -- just not much, which makes it mean even more. As it has been said, "A man who wanted new shoes felt awkward after he saw a man with no shoes. The barefoot man who wanted shoes felt awkward when he saw a man with no feet. And the man with prosthetic legs who wanted feet felt awkward when he walked in on his mother having an affair with his uncle."

some poor people like a construction worker i know are simply lazy. short sighted and lazy, not unfortunate in luck.

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shimmie logic

Bia, for you to accomplish what you have so far is really commendable. You're young, smart, and you've got a lot of life ahead of you. The sky is the limit. Can't you get any grants or anything because of your past situation through Job and Family Services or anything like that? I know the one boy that stayed with me could get a lot of free education since he's been a ward of the state here, but college wasn't for him. He's making some good money now, but he works his butt off for it, too. With your background you'd probably do well as a child care worker in a receiving home or juvie hall. You'd be a positive role model that's for sure. Those kids listen the most to the ones who've overcome adversity. Just a thought.

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Shut up.. you.. RICHIE RICH!!

I'd like to see you do construction.. I did it for a day.. then happily went back to the warehouse.

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Yeah, there are no lazy rich people. It's actually a well known fact that luck isn't a factor at all. Turns out all rich people actually started out dirt poor and made it on grit and determination! They're an inspiration to us all!

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Paris Hilton?

I'm teasing. Yeah, there's a lot of rich folks that didn't start out that way. But there's a lot that are born into it, too.

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yeah but then their sons worked a little less, and their sons a little less and so on. Until they became just lazy bums with shitoads of money. Bill Gates started his company is still working hard, but whne his son comes into play hell being doing a little less work and let the trustees take care of all the dirty work, and thus the cycle begins.

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You might want to check out this little page. It's really got some interesting stuff.
http://www.globalpolicy.org/nations.../2003/03oil.htm

A thread about politics. I should post something relevant, but this war was stupid from the get go.

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yeh, fuckin minimum wage going up $1! ITS ALL SO UNFAIR!

I just watch "30 Days" tonight on FX...

he had to live on minimum wage.. he proved that its pretty much impossible.

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i agree that it is damn near impossible to live on minimum wage, but she said "we fealt the pinch" of the war... yet minimum wage goes up a dollar?

Your ignorance wreaks dude.

Your disgustingly unintelligent reply leaves much to be desired. I have an idea... support your arguments!!!

By the way, i fully agree. We did feel it... prices are going up, jobs are evaporating, and the economy is more unstable than it has been in decades. Yet, minimum wage goes up a dollar? Where is the logic in that? That is my query. I feel as if you grossly misunderstood my previous posts.

Well...seeing 90% of the replies you make towards me...are pure trolling, why should I expect anything diff?

Well, thats just because i dislike you entirely. But that has nothing to do with this thread. You seem to have a strong opinion on the matter, so i attempted to spark a debate. Apparently, you aren't interested.

I'm not going to debate a troll boy that lives at home with starfish, Mermaid and dolphin blankies on his bed that we clearly see in your pictures. (go ahead and claim it's not your bed....mmmmhmmm)
When you start acting like a young man....I'll debate you until you turn blue.
Otherwise you really should stop following me around making snide comments....no one is impressed.

Well, obviously my attempts to leave my disdain for you out of this thread went unappreciated. It will not happen again. Shoo, rover.

my apologies to FBS for bring this riff raff into his thread. Im done.

construction workers arent poor, its a trade, in 15-20 years you can become a contractor, run crews, make good cash and run a profitable business, its hard work but its not a minimum wage life sentence like working at walmart, as far as construction workers being lazy, it all depends on what kind of construction. i sparred recently with a guy who was a mason, the dude picked my ass off the ground straight from a guillotine choke, you dont get that strong from sitting on your ass

as far as the war goes and how the UK or US portrays it, everyone knows its a sham, iraq hold 1/5 of the worlds oil supply. the US has been bombing it,plans to invade set into motion before the showdown with the UN, all the US and the UK wants now is iraq to be stable eough to export its oil and self govern by thier decree, its more of an imperialism of resources and trade than liberation, thats my opinion

The real reason that Blair agreed to the war in Iraq was that he thought it was going to be a two-way street with Bush, ie, we support his invasion and in return he puts in place policies that improve America's foreign finance policies concerning trade with the UK/Europe.

Well, it's still very much expensive to export to America and Bush's shocking decisions regading the importation of British steel have resulted in loss of trade and major contracts over here. The dollar is still trading at around $1.85 to the pound and Bush doesn't seem to be in a hurry to propose policies that will reduce this and lighten the load on European exporters.

In other words, Bush sees the 'special relationship' with Britain as dependable support with no added costs or obligations. Even within the past week Gordon Brown (Chancellor of the Exchequor) has held meetings in Washington attempting to get America to contribute more aid packages (in line with other countries' percentages of GDP) for Africa and was sent packing.

Bush still also refuses to sign up to the Kyoto protocol concerning pollution when the other seven coutries of the G8 (including Britain) have already done so. There is a repeating pattern of America taking and not putting very much back in return. And Bush wonders why his nation is hated.

Nice two-way street, huh?

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I trust what you say here is accurate...and have not heard any of this.
It's shameful.

Thats becuase Australia is getting all t3h shit with the US.

Free motherfuckin Trade!
As well as the limits on our exports to them have already been lifted.

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Yay, suck on that one, bitches of the motherland!

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That's crap, you two. Our FTA is a pretty damn small bone to be thrown.

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They removed the limit that they had on importing of meat products [specifically beef] into america (we usually hit this at 2/3 of the way through the year).
This is a good thing.
The FTA still needs to get through congress/parliment (though the latter shouldnt be too difficult).

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I think you missed my point.

I'm not talking about kiddies who have trust funds and such.

Not to burst your bubble, but not everyone who goes to elite colleges are rich. Ever hear of that magical word called scholarship? Yes, if you work hard and do well in school you can ahve your tuintion paid for you. And don't tell me grants are inaccessible to you, being that you are in the finacial situation you are in, you should be a canididate for finacial help plus student loans. I'm not trying to pick on you but you got incredibly defensive. You graduated high shcool, yippie. To graduate all you need is Ds, thats right below average. All a high school deploma says is "Hey, you are atleast below average!".

I can use your same logic for my point:

As we all know, thoes in difficult finacial situations all had a terrible upbringing in dirt poor familys. They are all hard working, and all are being held down by the rich white men that run our goverment and school and purposefully exclude the lower class from higher education admission since they want to keep all the wealth in the world contained into a select 5 familys. Nigger please.

Face it, a majority of the people who are successful today deserve it. They worked thier asses off one way or the other. And the majority of people who are in bad finacial standing earned it. I'm not saying its bad, because money isnt everything, and perhaps thoes people had different goals in life.

DISCLAMER #1: Notice I said majority. This means there are exceptions.

DISCLAMER #2: I'm lower lower middle class. I recently graduated high school and could have had my pick at many high ranking schools, not because of where I live or who I am but because I worked my ass off to get good grades in my Honors and AP classes. But instead I'm going to Luithery school, since I rather do something I love than smething that rakes in dollars that I hate.

Sorry I hijacked the thread.

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hey assholes you guys are quick to jump to conclusions. what i meant by my point was that some people with crappy jobs are just too lazy or unmotiviated to go through futher education, be it getting an associates or even graduating high school. i didnt say all rich people worked hard either, that was completely drawn from no where. i was providing a second view, and i didnt scoff at bias situation either. i was just saying that not everyone in shit jobs is a victim

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This is a very simple topic. Assholes running a country which sits on top of 25% of the world's known oil reserves were running it into the ground and torturing and killing their own people and supporting terrorism, etc........ Team America steps in because Iraq's neighbors are too lazy and or broke to do anything about it. America suffers the financial burden and gets scoffed at for acting in a responsible and forward thinking manner. America suffers even worse than they should because the sitting president is a retarded redneck who can't defend his actions verbally without sounding like a retarded redneck (which is bad). The world and Iraq's neighbors and Iraq's citizens eventually see a benefit and Team America paid the price for it. Fuck all y'all in the rest of the world. If your bystander primadonna bitchass countries ever become oppressed by tyrants you had better hope that you haven't exhausted our charity.

Woo! Power to the people!

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Yeah, it almost makes you wonder why we didn't invade, say, Rwanda? After all, this country obviously cares about people needlessly suffering at the hands of warlords and oppressive tyrants. Doesn't it? Of course, then you suddently remember that there isn't a whole lot of oil in Rwanda and simultaneously notice that Rwandans are too dark to look partially responsible for 9/11 and then it becomes much more clear as to why we weren't as concerned with Rwanda.

Obviously, though, we were just concerned with those poor, poor people in Iraq. That's why we needed to bomb them.

For what it's worth, there is periodically something identical to the situation in Rwanda happening in one African country or another, so while the time frame for Rwanda obviously doesn't fit that of Iraq, it's just as easy to replace it with Ethiopia, Somalia, Uganda, etc. The problem with Africa is that it hasn't been profitable to the US since the early 1800's.

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Exactly.

We should ask this girl what she thinks, she was liberated by our Shock & Awe volley on the opening day of The War pt.II in 03
When I heard King George II say "mission accomplished" I remembered her, when I hear the words "liberating Iraq" I think of her. And just like Chris said....when other parts of the world are as or worse off than Iraqs situation, I wonder if she'd prefer to take her chances there.....if she ever had a choice. But she didnt.
I wonder what she's doing now and thinking....and what she'll think in 25 years.


The image is extremely disturbing, clicking the link is your choice but just know....it's beyond horrible.

GRAPHIC (12 yo)

Okay, it's time for me to post something serious in this thread.

I don't know how many other Metaltabbers I speak for, but I think it is wrong to go up root another culture's way of life. Especially when it is marketed as liberating. Saddam Huessian was taken out of power. I believe that is good. But we went to war on grounds that the Iraqis had biological weapons. This has been proven false. This war is invalid. Why does it persist? I'll tell you. Because of oil. Oil that America wants. America is advertising this view that Americans have special rights above the rest of the world. I think last time I checked, America is horribly in debt to many European countries. Most notably Great Britain and France.

Recently I took a poll on my fellow students. Out of the 30 people interviewed,only 9 knew that Tony Blair was the current Prime Minister of Great Britain. It is disturbing how apathy is running the future. America has the power to make peace, but we are pissing it away on materialistic and blind ideals.

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Damn straight!
But as long as we have cell phones and cable TV with "who want to be a moronmillionaire/stupidass survivor" and TacoBell/McDonalds every 1000 feet and any fool can lease a car.....the majority is happy with not knowing or caring what happens outside their neighborhood.

It's going to get way worse...before it gets any better.

Has anybody heard Carl Marx's Antithesis Theory?

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Sure, I don't agree with most of the methods, reasons, or motivations behind it, just the eventual outcome.

As far as Africa goes it would be nice if the world lent them some real help instead of the Sally Struthers waste of time bullshit method. We actually do help out Africa quite a bit, but you don't hear about it in the news. When I was in the Navy we stopped in Eritrea and supplied them with medicine and weapons and shit shortly after they staged their revolution. That sort of thing goes on all the time on a small scale out of the spotlight.

Back to the Middle East, I've been to several of the countries there and many of the people really do want the world to bring democracy to them because they don't have the means to do it themselves and they don't like risking their lives when they score pornos and other western entertainment on the black market. I had some long conversations with an armed gate guard in Jordan and you wouldn't believe some of the shit they have to deal with over there. It's kind of like they're crying out "It's bad enough that the weather totally sucks ass here and there is nothing to do, but do we have to suffer cruelty and censorship on top of it?" but no one is really listening if you know what I mean.

ehh? what?

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