supposedly 666 is not the number of the beast

Chris Wattie of The National Post has issued the following report:

Satanists, apocalypse watchers and heavy metal guitarists may have to adjust their demonic numerology after a recently deciphered ancient biblical text revealed that 666 is not the fabled Number of the Beast after all.

A fragment from the oldest surviving copy of the New Testament, dating to the Third century, gives the more mundane 616 as the mark of the Antichrist.

Ellen Aitken, a professor of early Christian history at McGill University, said the discovery appears to spell the end of 666 as the devil's prime number.

"This is a very nice piece to find," Dr. Aitken said. "Scholars have argued for a long time over this, and it now seems that 616 was the original number of the beast."

The tiny fragment of 1,500-year-old papyrus is written in Greek, the original language of the New Testament, and contains a key passage from the Book of Revelation.

Where more conventional versions of the Bible give 666 as the "number of the beast," or the sign of the anti-Christ whose coming is predicted in the book's apocalyptic verses, the older version uses the Greek letters signifying 616.

"This is very early confirmation of that number, earlier than any other text we've found of that passage," Dr. Aitken said. "It's probably about 100 years before any other version."

The fragment was part of a hoard of previously illegible manuscripts discovered in an ancient garbage dump outside the Egyptian city of Oxyrhynchus. Although the papyrus was first excavated in 1895, it was badly discoloured and damaged. Classics scholars at Oxford University were only recently able to read it using new advanced imaging techniques.

Elijah Dann, a professor of philosophy and religion at the University of Toronto, said the new number is unlikely to make a dent in the popularity of 666.

"Otherwise, a lot of sermons would have to be changed and a lot of movies rewritten," he said with a laugh. "There's always someone with an active imagination who can put another interpretation on it.

"It just shows you that when you study something as cryptic and mystic as the Book of Revelation there's an almost unlimited number of interpretations."

The book is thought to have been written by the disciple John and according to the King James Bible, the traditional translation of the passage reads: "Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

But Dr. Aitken said that translation was drawn from much later versions of the New Testament than the fragment found in Oxyrhynchus. "When we're talking about the early biblical texts, we're always talking about copies and they are copies made, at best, 150 to 200 years after [the original] was written," she said.

"They can have mistakes in the copying, changes for political or theological reasons ... it's like a detective story piecing it all together."

Dr. Aitken said, however, that scholars now believe the number in question has very little to do the devil. It was actually a complicated numerical riddle in Greek, meant to represent someone's name, she said.

"It's a number puzzle -- the majority opinion seems to be that it refers to [the Roman emperor] Nero."

Revelation was actually a thinly disguised political tract, with the names of those being criticized changed to numbers to protect the authors and early Christians from reprisals. "It's a very political document," Dr. Aitken said. "It's a critique of the politics and society of the Roman empire, but it's written in coded language and riddles."

found it off www.bravewords.com

hahaha, stupid christians

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This is getting old news.

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Maybe it's 919 or 999 and it was written upsidedown.

My favorite mark of the beast is USDA Prime and that's the only one I care about at the moment.

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My favourite mark was Gary Moorcroft's screamer against the Western Bulldogs back in 2001. Shame though, he was never the same player after that mark....

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anybody see a slight resemblance between 616 and BENEDICT THE 16th. Just a little too perfect for the new pope eh? my opinion: its bullshit, just like christianity. =D

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Nope. How are you accounting for the first 6?

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here here

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this news has been around for a bit, but it wont change shit everyone will still belive its 666. because maidens NEVER wrong

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Exactly, Iron Maiden > Christain scholars

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The man speaks the truth

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well does this change anything? is this going to revolutionize my life?


maybe they missed the part that said "add 50"

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I bet slipknot feel pretty stupid now....

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Fucking A right!!!

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hahaha

This is the most important quote of the article.

In my opinion, the heirarchy of American christianity, when speaking of Revelation is completely without knowledge. Protestants borrowed the single-mindedness of Catholicism whilst denouncing the actual rituals and practice of the Roman Church at the time of Martin Luther/John Calvin. However they simply exchanged one orthodoxy for another no better, they are still restricted to essentially the same mode of thinking : Literal Interpretation of marred and hackneyed European translations, of Jewish Scripture. The doctrine stands that any sentence in the bible is an ineffable objective truth. However, when you start reading that a dragon is going to appear in the sky and attempt to devour the baby being born from a woman, also in the sky, you are obligated to believe only the most obvious and simple interpretation of that thought : That literally a dragon is going to try to eat a new born child while he's being born in the sky. This is a model of thinking which obviously disables itself as it functions, but the orthodoxies of Christianity can think no other way. On these grounds I declare the interpretations of American christians to be illegitimate. If I were to point to any one sect I would have to claim either the Freemasons or the Jewish Rabbinical clergy, as only they ( in my opinion ) can shed light on what that text actually meant from the author's point of view. But incidently, to know that requires induction into their highest ranks.

I predict that even in the face of this the christians will continue to announce the arrival of a beast whose number is 666. If the proliferations of the free sciences, superior philosophies and sects of belief/practice actually producing supernatural experiences, of the past century have'nt silenced the fundamental base of xtianity, then nothing will.


"Organized Religion is a safeguard against Religious Experience."

- Dr. Carl G. Jung.

I believe that 100 percent.

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just dont think about religion and that shit. you arent going to stop it, just leave the christians and the rest be. you wont stop them. they will not stop themselves.

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unless we had a reverse inquisistion (how the fuck do you spell that!?)
raise pagans and take back your land

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If you can't spell it you can't do it. Go to the back of the class.
I think you should have left out the second 's.'

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aaahhh.....at least I didnt get hit with the ruler

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Would ya like to? I've got a metal one that's 13 inches instead of just 12.

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kinky

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No, actually it's rather flat. It woud be hard to measure with if it was kinky.
Silly metalhead.

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We could just "leave christians alone", if they behaved like Scientologists or Davidians. Their rationale for belief may be just as non-existant, but as a potent cultural and political force, the impact of the Christian institutions of America is far reaching. The fact of the matter is, we are not left alone enough, as it is.

Any "good" Satanist knows that. Satan's number is 2, not one as Anton Lavey spoke of. Satan the almighty "one." That is bullshit, Satan is the prince of darkness and the bringer of light. Any "good" Satanist such as myself knows this. I do not conjur shit up, I don't kill animals, and I support veganism. I am a Satanist, and I am nice to christians. Satanism is bastardized to the core, so any nonsense like 666 is going to be a falsification in the eyes of the true satanic legions. Then again, if 666 scares away no good whores of god, then I support the number 666. The original Satanists were a group of nihilists in the 1200-1300's who would pretend to practice devil worship to scare away the crazy witch hunters, or any of the god worshippers that killed pagans. For further reference, look stuff up.

Hail Satan.

Where can I find one of these uh, 13 inch rulers you speak of.

uh, what is this emoticon for? is it the I'm wanking off, you'll have to wait or take a piss outside emoticon? If so, I have been looking for one of these.

i can spell "getting laid" but its not happening! :P

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All the girls I could fuck right now, are taken. I don't like fucking my buddies girlies, but then again I like Dave Mustaine and he boned kirk hammetrs girl. HAHSFDHASF

Satan...Santa...Jesus...Easter Bunny
concern for evil numbers
is always funny.

Believing in no gods or devils.....the only numbers that bother me are my monthly bills.

My second grandfather was a salesman for a big advertising company. He had all kinds of neat gadgets and stuff besides the typical pens with logos on them. We had a 4 foot yardstick around here for awhile but I think it got broken. It was wooden.

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Alright LBXXX. Uhm, what about the though?

You'll have to talk to Tranny about that. lol

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Tranny? Uh!?

transient

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Well, Jitter', you were talking about it looking like whacking or taking a leak. He was handy so I figured I'd take advantage. Besides I didn't have a clue what you were asking about if it was me you were asking!!! I warned you about that.

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cool.

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i dont mean to back track, but as we all now, newsweek is not the most... accurate of of the news paper, for intsance, there little " kuran in toliot" got many people killed, but never the less, if the Antichrist is a "great deciver", i do not think he'll have a 666 or 616 or pentegram on his forhead.

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I politely disagree.....reporting it didnt get people killed.....the fact it was done got people killed.

Excellent Cliche... Dont shoot the messenger.

This was something that was festering within the theological community a long time before Newsweek learned of it.

what is a toliot?

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I am not convinced yet. I'll wait until they find 10 documents that testify that 616 is the number of the beast. However, the number of the antichrist is not extremely important. It is not life or death information.

It is to slipknot fans...

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Probably. My drummer likes slipknot, but he also likes Death, Morbid Angel, Origin, Dissection etc.

The most important thing to know about Satanism is it's origin, where Satanism came from. It came from many places. In the 1200-1300's a group of Satanists wrote a book called the Al-Jilwah, the all black book of Satan and started a Satanic Cult to not only frighten the bastards/whores of god who kept slaughtering pagans, but to perhaps preserve their dark practices and parts of their religion.

Another form of Satanism comes from way before Christ walked the earth, from before Egyptian times, and before African stone age times. It is originated in Summerian and Annunaki writings, which are very ancient. The Summerian's believed in a dark presence....

Palestine Pagan Gods, were given names such as Beezelbub, Azgoroth etc. to Bastardize their religion. The jews and hammites were a fierce people in their time, and were very powerful. I think christianity is a defense mechanism for the people of israel and their racial and spiritual beliefs.

i still stick by the maiden refference

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i think religion in general is stupid (i dont mean to offend)... its just a waste of time IMO... i mean your just sitting there, listening to some old guy read an old book that doesnt really make much sence or sacrificing a small dog to better yourself in some after life that doesnt exist, or some other crazy ritual, when you could easily use this time for better things like playing guitar, spending time with family and friends or making money...

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I could make that one agrument...Shit I forget who came up with it, but it goes something like;

"If there is no heaven and hell and you do not believe, when you die you have lost nothing and have gained nothing.

If there is a heaven and hell and you do believe, when you die you have lost nothing and gained everything."

I wish I could remember the guys name...

But anyways, religion remains a personal choice. Whether you choose to believe or not is your choice and any one who ridicules you for it should get punched in the face.

Then again, any ego tripping religious zealot should be punched...and the guy who comes to your house at seven in the morning to ask if I've found god...

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Robert Pascal.

And his argument is beyond flawed. The drawback becomes immediately obvious, as Pascal excercised Fallacy : He gave the listener one of two choices, when in reality there are many more choices. To be "safe", by this man's reasoning, you would have to be an adherent of every religion. And by the very restrictions that Christianity's 'salvation' hinges upon, adhering to every religion is impossible.

And I'll wager that Jittery Sniper's rendition of old-world pagans as Satanists is a bit skewered. "Satan", or Satan-El, is an essentially Assyrian concept. It seems that being antagonized by the Christian church, as a collective demographic, somehow brings you under the umbrella of 'Satanism', which I believe is quite unfair ( talk about taking credit for a movement you had nothing to do with! ). Yes, the Catholic churches did work to eclipse the pagan traditions by incorporating their practices and "Christianizing" them, which was an atrocity. But to say that pagans sought to better conceal their practices by openly identifying themselves with what the Church/witch hunters were accusing them of ( i.e. Worshipping Satan ) is rather unfounded ... and illogical. That's like saying that Arabs tell the F.B.I. that they're cold-blooded terrorists to "scare them away" ... And as far as Satan even existing within the Pagan pantheon of deities ... Its difficult to make a correlation between "Pan", the god of sensual mischief and horseplay, and "Satan-El", the Epitome of all that is Unholy, or what have you ...



Jittery Sniper likes to have his Hebrew Angelology cake and eat it too

Jittery Sniper both likes to eat and have other things too... Speculate on that.

The actual irony is that the "bringer of light" is a characteristic attributed to Lucifer, the angel, which is listed among the ranks of the angelic choirs found in the Hebrew tradition. Hooray for hack occultism ...

Dude I was thinking the same thing when I read about it. Now the're going to have to get new coveralls and change the lyrics of the one song that mentions "666" a lot.

Am I the only one here that finds you or any other guy for that matter speaking about how many girls they have "fucked" or "could fuck" annoying? I'm not saying I believe or not or even that I care, just keep it to yourself because bragging about your sex life gets old quick.

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You know...even though I once long ago had a slight argument with you on that ADD subject.....which I now regret.....you say some really witty things.
I admire that greatly.


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MyOwnSavior....I agree on the bragging thing....I care not who can get laid or not. Screwing is over rated anyway....heh