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Old 2005-05-03, 04:43
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I see the light! r.e. The Conversion Disc...

...So, another day, another woman. This one I like about 50,004 times more than the last one (don't ask) but there's one little problem - her sum total experience with heavy music consists of seeing me sing death metal songs. This is not so bad, but it gives me an idea...

We all know songs from bands that everyone knows are blisteringly heavy. WE know how they sound, and why it's so darn corn-poppingly great. HOWEVER! Most of this stuff sounds like gibberish to Yer Average. But! Amongst all this angrypants music are genuinely good songs - undeniably heavy without being face-melting, well-composed, skillful, soulful and easily approached.

These are the ones I want your opinion on. I need to make a "Why you should listen to heavy metal" disc which rules over all possible others. Might try to narrow it down to about 10-12 tracks.

Pantera's 10's sticks in my head as just about perfect. In fact, all the mellow stuff off Trendkill is perfect. Other bands that immediately stick out as having track possibilites:

Black Label Society
Sabbath
Death
Devin Townsend
Down
Dream Theater
Evergrey
Hypocrisy
In Flames
Katatonia
Nevermore
Opeth
Symphony X
Testament
Type O -
Waylander

So, help out, cunts. Bear in mind also this could prove significantly useful to many of you. Think of this as a collective love project. Aww.
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Old 2005-05-03, 04:59
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I've tried this before and only had a little success, but to your list I'd add Iron Maiden during their Bruce/Adrian period, the very best of Priest, Metallica at their most epic (I don't know why, but this for some reason works quite well), and probably something like CoC ever since Pepper joined, which is not so far off rock as to be unrecognizable. Plus it rules. Especially their latest. A lot of fame-era Pantera's reasonably accessible, especially before FBD. I haven't listened to it for a while, but I think Countdown to Extinction goes pretty damn easy on the ears even if you're not too used to this metal thing. That's about all that comes off the top of my head. If I get more, I'll be back.
 
Old 2005-05-03, 05:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PST 88
....but I think Countdown to Extinction goes pretty damn easy on the ears....

Nice example...

For myself I'd simply say Type O has an effect indescribable in words.
Type O also varies greatly from the other bands listed IMO on the mood it puts ones self in.
 
Old 2005-05-03, 05:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bia
For myself I'd simply say Type O has an effect indescribable in words.
Type O also varies greatly from the other bands listed IMO on the mood it puts ones self in.


Stop trying to talk like that. You're not intelligent, and it shows quite clearly in your attempts to lie to us. I don't like being lied to, and your whole attempt to sound like anything more than an ugly, fat, slimy primate is one big disgusting lie.
 
Old 2005-05-03, 05:44
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My opinion on this may no longer count, as I have drifted to far into abhorently excessive listening to grind, but from memory of all those years ago, you could go with some of the softer songs by Morbid Angel (specifically something like God Of Emptiness) and some Obituary. I love Obituary.
'Melodic' Metal is always good for getting people hooked too, as they can not easily pass it up straight away as shit, like people do with death metal. Something like Earth (Aus) (The song 'The Undead' is quite catchy) or Gardenian ('Selfproclaimed Messiah' is quite good) if you are after In Flames make sure its something mid range, like 'Jotun'.

I Think the main goal to get people into metal is to get them used to more harsh vocals, since peole tollerate all sorts of 'heavy' music in modern pop-culture. So why not tack on something simple like Blood Duster. Their newer stuff is awfully rocky, but still maintains deep vocals, so that should be somewhat of a smooth transition.
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Old 2005-05-03, 05:50
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Now, now, play nice if you're not going to add anything of substance to the thread. Remember, this isn't some stupid thread about whether or not we like emo started by an unreflexive newbie, which we could run off topic as much as we please, this is a genuine thread started by Jim, so kindly suggest something for his 'Conversion Disc' or keep your shit in the RTT. I don't give a shit who you like or dislike, just keep the flaming within the acceptible boundaries and chances are I won't even see and be annoyed by it. Though, of course, if you both flame and act helpfully, I have no complaints.

Incidentally, almost everybody here lies and tries to come off as intelligent, or clever, or tough, or funny, or whatever. If you're going to be consistent in calling people on that, you're gonna have a hell of a time on your hands. It's an annoying board home to many unpleasant people; if you don't accept that as one of the ground rules your time here will be very unhappy. I don't care if you want to insult Bia - I'm certainly not doing this to defend her - but what you're accusing her of is pretty pandemic 'round here. So chill.

Iced Earth can be pretty catchy/accessible, but really you should be trying to keep people away from them rather than introducing them. Control Denied might serve as a decent replacement for Nevermore, since Warrell Dane, much as I love the man, is a very difficult vocalist to get used to. Something like Graveflower by Acid Bath is pretty accessible, as is about half of Paegan Terrorism Tactics. It also rules.
 
Old 2005-05-03, 05:58
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I've converted people with stuff off Ride the Lightning and Powerslave in the past. One particular song that always gets people is the instrumental Cremation off of King Diamond's Conspiracy album. Of course once the King starts singing all bets are off. Another one (and my personal favorite) is The Sails of Charon by the Scorpions from back when they didn't suck balls.

I'm drawing a blank now. I've almost entirely forgotten what it's like to not understand all this crazy metal.
 
Old 2005-05-03, 09:53
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I just gazed over towards my old CD rack, and low and behold I was struck with an idea. This verges on nu-metal, but I think that old Fear Factory and Machine Head stuff is quite good still and borderlines on metal. Say for example, something like Replica by Fear Factory and Davidian by Machine Head.
I'm not sure how you envisiage this conversion disc to happen though. The idea that I have in my head, is it starts of as something somewhat easy on the ears, then works its way up to more and more 'extreme' (or tr00 neKr0 kVlt if that makes more sense ) as the disc goes along.

As always fbs, I would like to know your refined list at the end too.
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Old 2005-05-03, 10:02
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I noticed alot of my friends who don't listen to metal like "Quo Vadis - I Believe".
 
Old 2005-05-03, 10:13
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arch enemy, most songs from wages of sin. they seem to have fast heavy, and extremely likeable songs.


the first track should be the heaviest loudest fastest nastiest most unpleasant assault on the ears you can find. then the 2nd track can be anything with a tune and your subject will like it and be thankful it isn't track 1.

i did this to somone I know, but they listened to soil very early on in their conversion and then never again. now they think that soil is heavier than most (non deathmetal) bands you can think of.
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Old 2005-05-03, 10:20
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I make my average friends listen to Cannibal Corpse and Spawn of Possession. On the other hand, you should show her:
Death-- anything from SOP.
Sepultura-- Kiowas, Inquisition Symphony
Pantera-- This Love, Cemetery Gates
Any Iron Maiden
Any Iced Earth
Children of Bodom-- Wrath Within, Children of Bodom
Any Helloween
Dio!!!!!!
Slayer-- South of Heaven, Tormentor
Maybe Dream Theater...like Change of Seasons
Dimmu Borgir-- Raabjorn Speiler Draugheimens Skodde (questionable)
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This is my band's page
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Old 2005-05-03, 10:28
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Seasons in the abyss by slayer!!!!

erm Any power metalis good (dragonForce, Rhapsody etc.) erm lots of old school classic metal stuff, not too many tracks with extreme vocals, I find for most people that is the biggest turn off, not hearing the words or lyrics, or not hearing a voice as such (eg dinging notes rather than growling) Probably an opeth track or 2 I would suggest one from any album, and one from damnation (okay its not metal, but its fucking awesome)

good luck dude!!!
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Old 2005-05-03, 10:52
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Some darkane as the perfect mix between brutal and melodic
 
Old 2005-05-03, 13:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapture
Stop trying to talk like that. You're not intelligent, and it shows quite clearly in your attempts to lie to us. I don't like being lied to, and your whole attempt to sound like anything more than an ugly, fat, slimy primate is one big disgusting lie.


HAHAHAHAHAHA
 
Old 2005-05-03, 13:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapture
Stop trying to talk like that. You're not intelligent, and it shows quite clearly in your attempts to lie to us. I don't like being lied to, and your whole attempt to sound like anything more than an ugly, fat, slimy primate is one big disgusting lie.


Jesus Fart-Pilfering Christ, is this at all necessary???

Some really solid suggestions so far, for which I am grateful. Ideas are forming.

[Doc, Darkane is just too damn aggressive - that, and the music just isn't that good. Won't do.]
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Old 2005-05-03, 13:33
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My Suggestions...

-Pain of Salvation
-Dark Suns
-Perhaps some Farmakon since they have those jazzy/blusy interludes
-Catchy In Flames stuff (particularly from the Clayman era)
-Agalloch
-Woods of Ypres
-New Suidakra?
 
Old 2005-05-03, 15:05
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I know ya'll hate power metal, but some Angra would do nice. And Blind Guardian, perhaps something from "Nightfall". I've got to second the Iced Earth suggestion, and also say that Dark Tranquillity might get the juices flowing.
 
Old 2005-05-03, 15:34
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Try out 'Leviathan' by Akercocke, it has sung vocals as well as gutteral and it's just a great song.

I find that Fear Factory are a great band if you want somebody to progress to and actually like heavier music. Start off with something like 'Descent' and work back through the albums to incorporate 'Replica', 'Zero Signal' and 'Scumgrief'. Before you know it she'll be on to the likes of 'Leechmistress' and 'Lifeblind' which are straight up death metal. Then she'll be gasping for, "More of those whatsi'calleds... blast beats!".

Also try 'Realms Of Reverie" by Martyr. The main motif is top notch, memorable and exceptionally hummable, but the song is itself rather complex. But due to that main theme this will be in the back of her mind and she'll love it.

I'm trying to keep it heavy (ie, er, 'nice' death metal) but the old classics are great, too. Give her a listen to some older Metallica such as 'Fade To Black' and 'Sanitarium' and maybe even some Megadeth with the likes of 'Lucretia' and 'Hangar 18'.

There's quite a bit there but I'd definitely get her hooked on latter day Fear Factory and gradually work backwards to Soul Of The New Machine. I suppose you could even get hold of some of the remixes from Remanufacture or Fear Is The Mindkiller to emphasize how basically music is music and the only difference is tempo, growling and a little (!) distortion.

Hope that helps, me old cobbler.
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Old 2005-05-03, 19:15
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Thumbs up

Metallica- One (there are 3 people on the entire planet that don't like this song)
Metallica- Wherever I May Roam or Sad But True
Megadeth- Symphony of Destruction
Megadeth- Trust
Anthrax- Among the Living, One World, or Efilnikufesin (NFL)
Anthrax- Lone Justice, Madhouse, or Medusa
Exodus- Deliver Us to Evil or Bonded by Blood
Exodus- Fabulous Disaster
Testament- Practice What You Preach, Blessed in Contempt, or Nightmare
Testament- Absence of Light, Love to Hate, or One Man's Fate
Slayer- South of Heaven
Slayer- Seasons in the Abyss (especially if you have the flute version)
Sepultura- Refuse/Resist
Black Sabbath- Paranoid or Iron Man
Black Sabbath- Sweet Leaf
Ozzy Osbourne- Crazy Train (See Metallica- One)
Ozzy Osbourne- Flying High Again
Pantera- A New Level, This Love, or, even though I can no longer stand this song through repetition, Walk
Pantera- Shedding Skin or I'm Broken

Anthrax's Among the Living and Slayer's South of Heaven were albums I bought the same day, listened to the same day, and the albums that without question turned me onto hardcore metal. So, you might want to squeeze some Anthrax songs on there. Cannibal Corpse grabs a lot of crossover, too, especially on Tomb, Vile, Gallery and the latest album. The song "Nothing Left to Mutilate" has a lot of crossover potential, so I'd probably stick that on there. Also, Deicide's "Sacrificial Suicide" (the redone version on Amon, not the original) was the first death metal I ever heard and the reason I listen to death metal today. I can't honestly say there's a lot of crossover potential there, but it hooked me before I was into this type of stuff.

Metallica, Megadeth, and Black Sabbath were my gateway to metal. Anthrax and Slayer were my gateway to hardcore stuff. Deicide and Cannibal Corpse were my gateway into underground stuff. So I'd probably represent these bands at least once. You also need to get some Iron Maiden and Judas Priest on there as well, but you're probably familiar enough with those bands to figure it out yourself.

I'd also suggest putting on some heavy 70's stuff that was once considered metal, but today is largely considered hard rock. Stuff like Ted Nugent. Make sure you get some Led Zeppelin on there, popular stuff like "Immigrant Song" and such.
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Old 2005-05-03, 21:07
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If you're gonna talk 70's metal, 2 that come to my old mind as heavier are "21st Century Schizoid Man" by King Crimson and "Helter Skelter" by the Beatles. KC kicks ass for edginess on that song. Beatles just for the attitude and drone in the song.

But from some of the bands you mentioned in the first post, knowing Sabbath could go from "Fluff" to "Crazy Train" sold me on them. Maybe what you should consider is doing a more extreme metal compiliation with the more 'noisy' stuff and also one with the more melodic songs to show it isn't just noise. And throw in "Drum Check" by Morbid Angel just to show what a passionate drummer can do. "Desolate Ways" and odds an ends from your line-up. Might be a nice 'romantic' touch, too.

Is she into playing any instruments or anything? That helps greatly in appreciation. Or does she write lyrics? Death has some great ones as does Opeth. I try to encompass all aspects at some point when I start getting into a particular type music including the why's if there's a story behind a song.
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Old 2005-05-03, 21:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapture
Stop trying to talk like that. You're not intelligent, and it shows quite clearly in your attempts to lie to us. I don't like being lied to, and your whole attempt to sound like anything more than an ugly, fat, slimy primate is one big disgusting lie.


Chris doesn't like unprovoked personal attacks anymore than you like Chris talking in the 3rd person. You're going to play nice around here, got it?
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Old 2005-05-03, 21:34
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And some Motorhead ofcourse. But no Ace of Spades, better give em some Bomber material like Dead Men Tell no Tales or Poison!
 
Old 2005-05-04, 02:28
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Ministry - Psalm 69 or The Mind is a Terrible Thing to Taste albums are perfect examples of something popular with heavy guitar that can warp people over to the dark side.

You might pull out some Opeth with the clean vocals.

A personal favorite of mine is the first 24/7 Spyz album "Harder Than You" which has a Living Colour vibe without being quite as mainstream (The other 24/7 Spyz albums pretty much suck). Speaking of Living Colour, put the song "Time's Up" off of "Time's Up" on your list (Fast, heavy song and Vernon Reid is the shiznitobamsnipsnapsnappy X 99338388838 on guitar!!!).
 
Old 2005-05-04, 02:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PST 88
Now, now, play nice if you're not going to add anything of substance to the thread. Remember, this isn't some stupid thread about whether or not we like emo started by an unreflexive newbie, which we could run off topic as much as we please, this is a genuine thread started by Jim, so kindly suggest something for his 'Conversion Disc' or keep your shit in the RTT. I don't give a shit who you like or dislike, just keep the flaming within the acceptible boundaries and chances are I won't even see and be annoyed by it. Though, of course, if you both flame and act helpfully, I have no complaints.

Incidentally, almost everybody here lies and tries to come off as intelligent, or clever, or tough, or funny, or whatever. If you're going to be consistent in calling people on that, you're gonna have a hell of a time on your hands. It's an annoying board home to many unpleasant people; if you don't accept that as one of the ground rules your time here will be very unhappy. I don't care if you want to insult Bia - I'm certainly not doing this to defend her - but what you're accusing her of is pretty pandemic 'round here. So chill.

Iced Earth can be pretty catchy/accessible, but really you should be trying to keep people away from them rather than introducing them. Control Denied might serve as a decent replacement for Nevermore, since Warrell Dane, much as I love the man, is a very difficult vocalist to get used to. Something like Graveflower by Acid Bath is pretty accessible, as is about half of Paegan Terrorism Tactics. It also rules.



Point noted. I apologize... not to Bia, but to the rest of you.
 
Old 2005-05-04, 02:39
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Anything by Anthrax!
Judas Priest
Iron Maiden
Basically any power
maybe some Exodus..
Some slower Insomnium
Everyone seems to like Unearth and Lamb of God (I dont understand the Lamb of God obession though..)
Mastodon
Motorhead
Sepultura
S.O.D.

Thats all I can think of right now.
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Old 2005-05-04, 02:58
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Into Eternity, Maiden, and selective Opeth. Can't go wrong with those.
 
Old 2005-05-04, 05:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapture
Point noted. I apologize... not to Bia, but to the rest of you.


Hahahaha, you big grumblebum. (Into Eternity is a GOOD IDEA.)

OK, I'll start putting this baby together soon.
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Old 2005-05-04, 13:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by far_beyond_sane
Hahahaha, you big grumblebum. (Into Eternity is a GOOD IDEA.)

OK, I'll start putting this baby together soon.



I would personally put the songs "Distant Pale Future" and "Unholy".
 
Old 2005-05-04, 15:32
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At the Gates,something off Slaughter of the Soul would be good.
 
Old 2005-05-05, 01:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapture
Into Eternity, Maiden, and selective Opeth. Can't go wrong with those.

fuck yeah. i never hear anyone talk of into eternity. i love into eternity. oh yeah and i agree.
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Old 2005-05-05, 05:06
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I can't believe I haven't heard the most painfully obvious examples of conversion material. Nothing Else Matters and The Unforgiven by Metallica are damn near foolproof. Hell, last night I was at a party with a total of three metalheads there , (including me), and we put on those songs and even the girl with the crappiest fucking taste in music, (Linkin Park would be a quantum leap forward), liked them.
Also, I would suggest the following:
Metallica - One, (As close as anyone got to a perfect fucking song)
Maybe Metallica - Fade to Black
Dream Theater - Pull Me Under, (This song got me into DT, and I got laid listening to it, so it definitelly rules)
Iced Earth - Melancholly
Iced Earth - Dark Saga
Pantera - Hollow
Judas Priest - Angel
Ted Nugent - Cat Scratch Fever, (especially the Pantera version)

That's it for now, I can't really think of anything else at the moment.
 
Old 2005-05-05, 05:54
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I sure "Teabagging the Dead" by Gutrot will get her in the mood...

Like BOC said, Gardenian is a good melodic death metal band. Throw in some Orphaned Land, Into Eternity, At The Gates, Mercenary, Type O Negative (Bloody Kisses & October Rust era), possibly some Insomnium and you got yourself a good old fashioned "forget everything you know about metal" cd.
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Old 2005-05-05, 06:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyOwnSavior
I sure "Teabagging the Dead" by Gutrot will get her in the mood...

Like BOC said, Gardenian is a good melodic death metal band. Throw in some Orphaned Land, Into Eternity, At The Gates, Mercenary, Type O Negative (Bloody Kisses & October Rust era), possibly some Insomnium and you got yourself a good old fashioned "forget everything you know about metal" cd.


I can't believe I forgot Type O Negative. That's some good shit right there, boyee!
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Old 2005-05-05, 07:29
Kylito
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i_hate_nu_metal
Nothing Else Matters and The Unforgiven by Metallica are damn near foolproof.

I thought you hated nu metal? I personally wouldn't wish those songs on anyone, but whatever works I guess. That theory does seem mildly similar to the time I used Ratt to convert someone and then had them listening to Killing Is My Business, Ride The Lightning, and No Place for Disgrace within 2 months and then I finally got him onboard with the reality that Ratt pretty much sucked ass and was just a gateway band. But despite their faults Ratt was way better than nu Metallica...

I would suggest "Step Down" by Sick of it All
 
Old 2005-05-05, 07:46
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PST 88
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Nothing Else Matters and The Unforgiven aren't metal songs, even if they're by a metal band. If you play somebody Planet Caravan, they might dig it, but it doesn't really give them a sense of Sabbath, does it? You really can't play something other than metal, pretend it's metal, and think that'll acclimate somebody to it. It's like, I don't know, giving somebody who's never tasted beef some cheese to get used to it, because, y'know, it's from a cow too.
 
Old 2005-05-05, 16:00
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i_hate_nu_metal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PST 88
Nothing Else Matters and The Unforgiven aren't metal songs, even if they're by a metal band. If you play somebody Planet Caravan, they might dig it, but it doesn't really give them a sense of Sabbath, does it? You really can't play something other than metal, pretend it's metal, and think that'll acclimate somebody to it. It's like, I don't know, giving somebody who's never tasted beef some cheese to get used to it, because, y'know, it's from a cow too.


hahahahahahaha. cheese, hahaha. that's too fucking funny, man.
However, you don't like Iced Earth, so I will not take your opinion on Nothing Else Matters and Unforgiven seriously. hahaha. I'm just saying to get them started with 'Tallica, and then move into some of the heavier shit on that album, and then backstep to maybe Sanitarium, Fade to Black, and then, of course, the entire Kill 'Em All album.
 
Old 2005-05-05, 16:49
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L,B'XXX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PST 88
Nothing Else Matters and The Unforgiven aren't metal songs, even if they're by a metal band. If you play somebody Planet Caravan, they might dig it, but it doesn't really give them a sense of Sabbath, does it? You really can't play something other than metal, pretend it's metal, and think that'll acclimate somebody to it. It's like, I don't know, giving somebody who's never tasted beef some cheese to get used to it, because, y'know, it's from a cow too.


Awesome explanation.
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Old 2005-05-05, 16:53
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Anything Megadeth, the album Countdown to Extinction has many many songs that kick alot of ass and are easy to listen to
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Old 2005-05-06, 12:59
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seriously consider I Am The Black Wizards - Emperor.... That song definantly showed me the way fromNu-Metal.. its also quite mellowy, melodic which is crossover potential. I wouldnt REALLY recommend the cd vrsion though.. its a bit too dark for a new-comer

try finding the Live version if you consider the song
 
Old 2005-05-11, 13:31
andrewc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapture
Point noted. I apologize... not to Bia, but to the rest of you.


You certainly don't need to apologize to me, I'm in total agreement with you.

Anyway, back on topic now. Would Dream Theater suffice? What you described for your CD, I am thinking some tracks off "Train of Thought," though leaning slightly towards nu-metal, have some good lyrics, and "As I Am" and "Endless Sacrifice" might be a bit of a help to you if she's totally clueless about guitar, say "listen to this guys guitar work" and watch her jaw drop. Just be wary of the lengths of the tracks, at 7:48 and 11:24 respectively.
 
Old 2005-05-11, 13:39
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Here's a good comparison:

Play her No More Heroes by The Stranglers and then play her any brutal/tech death song. Convert the keyboard part to a distorted guitar in your mind and I swear the only differences between the two are double bass/blasting drum work and gutteral vocals. The Stranglers rule.
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Old 2005-05-11, 17:26
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Bia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmansley
Here's a good comparison:

Play her No More Heroes by The Stranglers and then play her any brutal/tech death song. Convert the keyboard part to a distorted guitar in your mind and I swear the only differences between the two are double bass/blasting drum work and gutteral vocals. The Stranglers rule.


What ever happened to Leon Trotsky....

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