No, I didn't finally get to try anal sex. I didn't even get laid. It was much better than stupid fucking sex.

Well, I woke up at 10AM. My mother was going out to Taunton to visit my Grandma. Unbeknownst to me, my aunt was coming along with us, which meant I had to give up the front seat, but I didn't care. I was going to my favorite place in the world- Gertrude Boyden Wildlife Refuge , or as the locals (and myself) typically call it, "The Bird Sanctuary".

Why is this my favorite place in the world? It's a tough question. See, it's not too big of a sanctuary. It's about 1.25 miles south to north and about .75 miles wide at it's largest point. Here in Massachusetts, it's actually quite small for a sanctuary. Elsewhere, it'd be considered tiny. In fact, it's just over 50 acres. Freetown/Fall River State Forest, which is closer to me, completely dwarfs it. But there's just something special about this place. I always find something interesting here. I found my first black racers there, I found my first milk snake there. Ribbon snakes, musk turtles, red-spotted newts, wood frogs, gray tree frogs, spotted salamander... the first time I found each of those was at this dinky little reserve.

So I got there yesterday around 2:15PM. It's a weekday, so there's nobody there. I saw three people there the whole time, one on his way out, two biking on their way out through a different exit. I got to this large, semi-permanent vernal pool, and I notice at least 10 turtles basking on a couple of logs in the middle. The pool is still very large at this point- it shrinks considerably by July/August. There were about 9 painted turtles and 1 large snapper. I viewed them through binoculars for a couple of minutes and went about my way. I flanked the other side of the pool, where I found some decomposing egg masses as well as hundreds of tadpoles.

I love my amphibians and turtles, but that's not my primary purpose there. I'm looking for snakes. I always am. I get to the first snake hot spot. I lift up a board and a medium sized (around 45 inches long) black racer goes darting through my legs and into the forest brush. I look underneath some more boards- no luck. Then, I'm up to a large board that always seems to produce- it's only about 10 feet away from these other boards. What do I see? Two large black racers (48 in+) and one large milk snake (36 in+). I don't know how the milk snake and racers co-existed. They not only compete for food (they both love rodents), but both snakes are notorious for eating other species of snake. Since milk snakes tend to be smaller, I'd have thought for sure he'd have been racer meal.

Of course, racers don't constrict and therefore aren't built nearly as powerful as milk snakes, which do constrict. So, I guess a 48 inch long racer might have a tough time with an extremely muscular 36in+ milk snake. I guess that's why they left each other alone.

Well, one of the racers was already awake, probably having sensed my vibrations as I lifted a board only one foot away from this one. This alert one fled as soon as I lifted the board. The second racer seem confused and took a little longer to get away, but I let it go because, out of the corner of my eye, I saw another snake. It was the milk snake. I love milk snakes. I'm not quite so fond of racers. Unfortunately, having been distracted by the beautiful racers, by the time I got my hand around this milk snake, he was already taking off. He got himself into some brush, which usually means the snake is getting away. See, he's wrapping himself in roots I can't see so not only does he have the leverage advantage, but I can't see where the hell most of him is. So, I have to tear up the roots I can see to regain the leverage advantage nature gives a 200lb Homo sapiens over a 1lb Lampropeltis t. triangulum. After about 10 minutes of digging up roots and trying to pry him loose, I finally get him out. Now, I was a little rough, so he's both scared and angry. So what does he do? He does what any good snake should do- bite me. Of course, he only bit my shirt, which was actually kind of cute. He's beautiful.

I have a video of me lifting up the board, but the more alert racer was so fast, it isn't even in the video. The second racer and the milk snake both are, but I don't have anywhere to upload the video.

After finally getting the snake bagged, my knees were wobbly and my hands were shaking. It must have been an adrenaline rush. I got my shit together and said, "alright- 3 more hot spots to check". Nothing in the second. Just outside the third, though were two black racers. These weren't hiding underneath debris like the other three. These were out in the open. I chased one down to a stream, where he finally dove in, before finding the second, who seemed to lose me and ended up slithering right up to me to get into a brush pile right next to me. Unfortunately, the video of him coming up to me didn't take.

I also saw a beautiful, large adult garter snake (approx 30 inches) before any of the other snakes.

Then, I leave the sanctuary and my mother got me. I then got some pictures of an abandoned railroad, which was awesome. I'm obsessed with that kind of stuff.

Then, I get home and my friend calls. He wants to play catch. Now, I was beat from walking around the woods all day following overgrown railroads and chasing fleet snakes through underbrush, but I say "yes" anyway. First,though, I have to eat dinner, which is pizza, something I haven't had in over a month. I love pizza, but it's expensive so we don't eat it often. Okay, so I finish eating, and I call him to let him know I'm ready.

When he picks me up, he tells me he has an extra ticket to a Sox game for next September against the Blue Jays and he wants me to have it. I'm speechless, because I've never been to a major league baseball game before and have wanted to go badly. Awesome shit. Then we play catch and I catch not only some baseballs, but a second wind as well, because I finally figured out how to throw a good splitter. I also worked on my slider, which was looking good, and I threw a couple of curveballs, which I never have a problem with. I also found a really good grip for throwing cut fastballs as well as experimenting with different grips for a change-up. It was the best game of catch I've ever had.

The Sox ended up losing to the Orioles in a game they should have won last night, but all things considered, it's at least the best day I've had all year.

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Great shit dude

Oh, I wanted to ask you something, what are snake's natural predators? I got this question in my Biology exam asking to name a three species food chain or whatever, and it was concerning snakes and rodents.
Heh, I put "Panther-Snake-Rodent". I completely guessed that one.

Fucked up man...

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There are some birds and mamals that eat snakes, quite facinating to see

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Snakes have a ton of natural predators. It depends on the snake, though- you'd have to keep in mind that snakes are the most diverse subfamily in all of the animal kingdom. Snakes are far more diverse than any other family, nevermind subfamily.

As for Panther, I'd have to say that's probably wrong. The only large predators I would see eating a snake are canids, occasionally to rarely. The most frequent predators of snakes are mammals and birds, but reptiles, especially other snakes, frequently dine on reptiles as well. Even large frogs have been known to chow down on young garter and water snakes.

Most North American raptors love to eat snakes. Mustelids also love snakes. The only thing mustelids and raptors seem to like more than snakes are rodents, and that might just be because rodents are more common. Like I said, reptiles also eat snakes- alligators don't mind snake meat, snapping turtles will take semi-aquatic snakes as well. Varanids love snakes. And, as I've already mentioned, many snakes eat other snakes, some snakes are even cannibalistic. I'm sure you've heard of king cobras- they love snakes, especially large, 8 ft. long rat snakes, and they are also cannibalistic, taking smaller king cobras without a problem. Certain fish will take aquatic and semi-aquatic snakes of appropriate size, but some fish seem to eat just about anything, so I'm not sure how much that information is worth.

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Cheerio Chris, that helped a lot.

That's a great story Chris.
Hopefully soon...I'll have some great Florida snake pictures for you.
Meanwhile...I posted this in the photoalbum earlier...it's slightly relevant but as you'll see there's no snakes in it.....yet.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v410/biafra/rws.jpg

You've never been to a MLB game?

I lived in Ioronto durring the 2 times they won the world series, and it was a fucking blast, now they can't even sell 500 ticks a game and prices for behind the plate are 50 bucks.


I know its not the same as the green monster, but if you ever go to Toronto when the red sox are there, you can get damn good sets for 25 bucks (lower bowl by 1st or 3rd).

Still it would be sweet to see an american baseball game, in a town that eat, sleeps, and shits baseball. Thats like seeing a hockey game in Toronto or Montreal, crazy drunken fans going ape shit.

Enjoy.

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(sorry for the x2 post)

On may the 7th ill have your day beat... why?


I'm going to PEI for a show, MISERY INDEX and local bands, I'm staying at a place where MI is too, and I was told to bring my guitar because I'LL BE JAMMING WITH MISERY INDEX!!!


Bitches.

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I enjoy time alone outside as well. But when I was reading that, why did "Best Years of My Life" by Bryan Adams pop in my head?

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its good that you have wild life preserves around you. we dont really

anyways, are you in college for biology?

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Congrads Chris some of my dumb friends at school dont seem to understand that there ARE cooler experiences in life than getting laid. They are astonished when I tell them, "My mind works as follows: Metal, tits beer". Therye like "what!? for me its tits first!"

My best life moment(s) Slayer live, and Suffocation live.

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A good moment for me will be NILE in 3 days

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That sounds like my backyard before a shitlaod of neighborhoods sprang up a few years back.

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I've done a lot of shit like that in my life and have topped those moments by leaps and bounds. It's cool that to you thats so gratifying but if I had found out that something like that was the best day of my life... I'd probably shoot someone. lol, Seriousely though, there's a LOT of things i've done better than spending time in a wildlife reserve... i've had good times at places like that (only bigger, waterfalls, enormouse cliffs, etc.) but those times only come way down the list compared to everything else.... and i'm only 17.

I also don't want my life to have one single defineable moment where I can say "thats the best thing thats ever happened to me". I'd much rather be about to say that, and then something more awsome happens. And I intend for my best moments to keep topping themselves until I die.

Interesting stuff.

What course are you doing Chris?

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One of the greatest moments in my life was seeing Stricken Zero ( a local band ) play one of the local venues. It coincided with Dec. 3, my birthday, I started playing guitar, inspired by the bands performance. They sounded like Bloodbath with Lamb Of God's vocalist. Experiencing live music of the extreme metal persuasion was like entering an altered state of consciousness, a quasi-psychedelic excursion into supernatural reams. So many things that I had been reaching for through various spiritual practises and experimentations were just lying there, waiting within this music. I attribute this to the time-warping characteristics of chaotic extreme metal, it effectively recalibrates the listener's perception of space-time. I sought to then merge my study of the Occult with my studies in music. From then on I started practicing 8-11 hours daily. And I have'nt stopped since.

You're living in a paradise.



I'd love visit the Rogers Centre, or, as I'll always think of it in my head, the SkyDome. I'd love to get one of those hotel rooms that overlook the stadium during a game and pair of expensive binoculars. That would be totally badass.





Yes, herpetology to be exact, but I'm only taking taking typical classes right now. I'll take specialized classes when I move on to UMass. I'm not entirely sure what capacity I'll be working in, there's a lot of room. For example, should I be a curator at a museum, zoo, or serpentarium? Should I teach herpetology as a professor? Should I work as an environmental consultant specializing in reptile conservation? I really want to do field biology (herpetology, of course), but that doesn't pay anything. In fact, you're lucky if you can get money from the government just to cover the costs you incur in the field and for equipment.



It's like that out here, too. It makes me so angry the only thing I can do is just try not to think about it.



You aren't obsessed with reptiles. I am. That's what made it awesome. I do appreciate waterfalls, cliffs, canyons and whatnot, but I'd take the view of a riverbank surrounded by many different types of trees in early October over any of that as far as beautiful goes. We actually get a lot of tourists up here just to see that. Animals are everything for me, especially reptiles, and out of reptiles, especially snakes. There is only one snake I covet more than the one I caught yesterday, and it's one I've yet to find- Heterodon platirhinos, greatest animal on the planet.

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bastards asshole!

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SWEET!!!!!

Make sure you engage in anal sex after the show and bring a snake with you!!!


My old tom cat Tommy used to kill snakes (up to four feet long) after toying with them for a while. Sometimes it would chew them in half and toy with both semi-snakes while the post trauma muscular activity lasted. So you can go ahead and add cats to the list of predators...

I didn't know what the hell that was so I pasted it into Websters and got an error...gave me this?

"Heterodon platyrrhinos" a North American harmless snake which has the power of puffing up its body. Called also hog-nose snake, flathead, spreading adder, and blowing adder."

Sounds wicked.

That's because we are talking about natural predators, not irresponsible owners allowing their cats out to decimate local wildlife.



Yeah, that error is understandable- platyrhinos is the old spelling, it has since been fixed and is now recognized as platirhinos. The two rr's is an error on somebody at Webster. For what it's worth, you'd do a lot better copying and pasting into google than you would copying and pasting into an online dictionary.

Common name is Eastern Hognose(d) Snake. The other names are all local layman's misnomers at various parts of it's range. It's non venomous.

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Allowing a cat to do something? That's funny. The cat did what came naturally and fended for himself in the great outdoors as all cats should. To think that I or my parents owned that cat is comical, he was more like a friendly neighbor who helped keep our property free of annoying pests at no charge. If he had been a pest himself like certain female cats who kept having kittens all the damn time he would have been shot like so many other unwanted cats, snakes, etc... No offense, but I personally lost count of how many snakes I killed myself for various good reasons when I lived in the country.

Damn snake murderer!

I've seen these redneck guys more than once...they'll take a shovel and chop a snake in half...you ask, "Why did you do that?" and they reply, "Caws its a snaik" and you say, "But it's only a little Corn Snake or a Garter Snake" and they say "uhhh, but it's a snaik"


But this is the South...pretty much ALL animals are treated badly except the thousands fucknuts with their inbred crosseyed pitbulls.
Slobbering Mutts.
heh heh

Stop badmouthing Rednecks! They're funny and cool.

Easy for you to say....
You dont live jamed in with oh say....about 700,000 of them...do you?

Heh

Haha ok, I would like to live in such a place for a while, to see if rednecks are really as bad as most people think!

Back on topic, so how about them snakes?...

...which is the exact ignorant response I should have expected. No, the cat should not have done what came naturally and fended for itself in the great outdoors, because the cat did not fucking belong there. Housecats do not belong outdoors at all. Animals should never be introduced where they don't belong. Cats do not belong there, they have no natural predators there, and will destroy local wildlife that otherwise would not have had to worry about them.



It's not quite so hilarious when you consider the fact you referred to it as your cat. So, did you actually own the cat? If you didn't, don't refer to it as yours. If you did, you or whoever was responsible for it and you was being irresponsible by allowing it to prowl an ecosystem in which it does not belong.



Various good reasons? Let's hear them. There are no good reasons to kill a snake unless you are being physically attacked by it (which, by the way, does not include a snake 5 feet away from you striking in your direction to scare you away). The only reason people kill snakes is because they are ignorant, lazy bastards who are so fucking selfish they feel the need to alter the world surrounding them so as to make things convenient. It's bad for the ecosystem, although I guess if you knew anything about your ecosystem you wouldn't encourage your cat to devalue it.

The only animals you or anybody else has any business killing are game animals and livestock.

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Yes...snakes N Sox
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...eleventpost.jpg


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Picture if you will...daily for 19½ years I've seen things like...

300lb woman...stains on her sweatpants and holes in her Spuds McKenzie T-Shirt in the grocery store yelling to her 3 daughters with koolaid stained mouths and candy goo mixed with cheese dust from chips on their faces say to them,
Mercedes..Lexus...Porche....git over here now before I BUST your ass!
OR
A guy with 8 teeth and tobacco juice dribbling down his chin in his wire and bondo pickup truck pull along side me as I ride my bike to the Library or Quikee-Mart ask, "Hey missy....you wanna ride or sumpin?" and there is deer blood all over the hood of his truck where he just last night shot a deer and cleaned it and brought it home tied to the hood with fucking bungy-cords.

Yes...they're a HOOT!


Sorry Chris...I simply couldn't help myself.
But that is a cool pic up there...eh?

Haha thanks for spoling my ideal image of a redneck! That was very informative and rather disgusting.

Heh, I always pictured rednecks as decent, hardworking people who happen talk in a funny way, use funny slang, have mullets, hunt deer to bring home for supper, and listen to kick-ass country music. Fuck, I've been listening to too much Lynyrd Skynyrd.
You got any "good" rednecks^ ?

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I've loved all reptiles since I was a kid, especially lizards. Heh, I know jack shit about them, apart from the fact that they're cute n' cudly!

Housecats? WTF are you talking about? They're CATS. Animals like cats and dogs should not be caged in a house and in my opinion should never set foot in a house. That is bordering on abuse not to mention the fact that animals are careless slobs and can't be trusted near valuable items, food, babies, etc... unless you beat them into compliance and that is definitely abuse.




Unpedigreed cats serve no financial purpose and should not be considered property since they are of no intrinsic value. The cat enjoyed our company and we enjoyed watching it torture worthless snakes that trespassed on our property. He was free to come or go as he pleased and was just as natural as any other living thing on this earth. He lived there, hence that was his environment or ecosystem if you prefer and since he homebased on our property he was OUR cat. It was your ridiculous use of the word irresponsible that initiated my response in the first place. Get off of your low horse and realize that people don't really need to give a shit about what a cat does to a snake because it is trivial and not worthy of assigning responsibility of any kind.





Reasons for various disposition of animals:

1. Any animal on our property which poses a threat to livestock and is not the property of a neighbor will be killed (shot, knifed, beaten with a baseball bat, stomped, knocked silly and fed to a pet, etc...)
2. Any animal on our property which is annoying to me or interferes with my chores, etc... and is not the property of a neighbor will be killed.
3. Any animal on our property which is of no value to me outside of target practice will be shot if I am holding a loaded gun and it doesn't make a lucky getaway.
4. Any animal on our property which poses a threat or is annoying and IS the property of a neighbor will be shot with rock salt.
5. Any snake I run across anywhere on or off my property will likely be killed because it is a worthless and annoying snake and that is a good enough reason for me and should be no concern of yours.

Yes all people are selfish and yes they like to alter their environment. That is who we are, that is our nature, it is perfectly natural. Our ecosystem is under our control to the point where we can rid it of irritating creatures like mosquitos, snakes, mountain lions, grizzly bears, and the smallpox virus with no major consequences. If you want to coexist with nasty creatures that is your own selfishness in action and you are more than welcome to do so as long as the people in your environment allow you to do it. Please don't push your personal selfish values on me and call me or my parents irresponsible for allowing worthless animals to fight their own fights or for ridding our environment of pests.
Another annoying quote of yours which I see a lot variations on in your overly verbose and unnecessarily high and mighty attack style posts is "I guess if you knew anything about your ecosystem....", etc... I knew damn near everything about my ecosystem at that location and you know jack shit about it. Snakes were not critical to anything in any way and were therefore worthless. Don't try to pull out some bizarre example from parts unknown and apply it to a farm community in the mountains of Northern California that you've never even seen.
How can you say it's OK to kill game animals and not snakes? Endangered game animals are licensed for the sport of future generations and snakes and such are not because there are more than enough of them already and not enough people rely on snakes as a source of food so most people will not miss them if they are wiped out of populated areas entirely. I personally never shot any game animals because I was not bothered by them and did not get off on tracking them or gutting them, etc... Everything I killed was something which was unwelcomed or unnecessary in my environment. Since I was among the dominant species, that was my natural right.

Please, let's not have a pet-centric pissing match. That would be boring.

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i got two stray cats, one is the color of concrete and dirt, evilest fucking cat you ever seen, they roam my area here. i see them on occasion, fucking sinister looking spiky, matted, pint sized hyenas. all i can say, cats are very adaptable to anything, like i'll feel bad for a lost dog, but a stray cat is born to die hard with a shit eating grin

i dont know much about critters,snakes,turtles and stuff. maybe i'll check out that preserve some time in the summer

about rednecks, in that movie snatch, the whole piker,pikey, whatever trailer people thing going on, that seems close to the redneck culture here, not a direct parallel, but close, i lived in central VA for a few years, i never had serious problems with far out rednecks, i always though it was a bit exaggerated, up here in the north its the same shit, rubes, man.....rubes

what the fuck is this stupid thread. A snake isn't a massive adrenaline rush. About as interesting as watching paint dry.

Oh, and you people stop faking that your interested for Chris's recognition

Had you even thought that maybe they are interested?

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Who are you to say that?A snake is wayyyy more interesting than anything you have ever posted here.

In all honesty, I doubt that every single one of them is genuinely interested.

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Speak for yourself please. Animals are very interesting....most people are boring dull and moronic....
Watching spiders spin webs is amazing. Watching a bird build a nest outside your backdoor in a close tree is awesome. Watching lizards stalk and catch small insects is too cool. Watching a gator troll along in the water with only his eyes breaking the surface is wicked. Watching ants dismember a large insect and carry it away piece by piece is more entertaining than sitting in front of a TV and watching the garbage that spews forth out of it.

As for the cat thing... I agree...cats should be allowed to stalk and kill whatever they wish...they are part of our world...no turning back on that now...so they are part of the eco system. I love birds....but I also love watching a cat stalk and kill a bird...no biggy....that's what cats do. Even though our pets are well fed....millions of years of programming cant be washed away with a bag of Meow-Mix or a can of catfood.
My cat isnt a big bird hunter but often catches a tiny lizard...do I get upset? no....is there anyway I can convince her to not do it...no. LOL
Is my cat fixed where she'll never make more cats...Yes
Cats - Animal instinct...killer supreme!

Hunting is cool...IF you do it for logical reasons IMO
Alot of the guy I went to highschool with killed many deer...most ate the meat. It was the few that would kill anything for the "fun" of killing it that I disagree with....but like mentioned above...we cant control what a person does on THEIR property.

THE ONLY WAY OUT OF HERE... IS PIECE BY PIECE!!!!

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A domesticated cat is a housecat. A domesticated cat does not naturally occur in California. So, despite your misguided ignorance, they do not belong in the woods or any other natural environment in California. Introduced animals wreak havoc on ecosystems and domesticated cats are among the worst offenders.



This is possibly the dumbest sentence I've ever heard. This is one of the most twat-reeking copouts I've ever heard. If it makes you feel better to come up with lame excuses as to why you shirk responsibility, be my guest. You are still being an ignorant, irresponsible douchebag.



It's pretty obvious you think you are riling me up by calling snakes worthless or bringing snakes up over and over and over again when they aren't the real issue. The real issue is the ecosystem and the fact that your irresponsibility encourages your cat to destroy it.



No, he wasn't just as natural. He's not from California and doesn't belong there, no matter how many times you purposely ignore this FACT.



WOW! He was part of the ecosystem since he lived there??? COOL! I guess we should call Guam and tell them Brown Tree Snakes aren't so bad after all, even though they've wiped out birds, lizards, and mammals since they got there. Hell, Kylito says since they live there, it's okay! I sure am glad you gave me this lesson on how ecosystems work, because I sure needed it.



It was my accurate use of the word irresponsible that bothered you, since you don't want to be confronted with the truth. You are an irresponible little twat, and immature crybabies never stand for being called out for their faults.



Oh, gosh? You mean people don't care what a cat does to a snake or the entire ecosystem surrounding it? Gee... is that why there are so many feral cats and house cats destroying ecosystems?! No, way! I totally didn't know that.

I'm glad you let me know that most people don't care, because obviously what's important is based on what the typical American cares about. Going by your logic, I now know that I should spend more time worrying about Jennifer Aniston, because people care about her. I also know I need to throw that Morbid Angel shit away, people don't care about them. I need to get some Britney Spears up in this house, thank you for showing me the way, o' great one!

Obviously I shouldn't worry about ecosystems being destroyed, because it doesn't matter that when the environment finally collapses due to our meddling, we will be the ones to suffer. After all, why should I care when Kylito and the average American doesn't?



So, why don't you just say, "I am a selfish, lazy, irresponsible prick who enjoys destroying the environment for my own inbred amusement".



There are no major consequences? My mistake. I didn't know entirely removing animals from an ecosystem was safe. Again, I'd better alert officials in Guam and let them know Kylito says everything will be okay. I'm sure they'll be relieved.



Or, to be more accurate, if I want there to be a healthy, functioning environment, you want me to keep it to myself. It's funny you would use the word selfish- what is selfish about me wanting to preserve the environment for the benefit of the human race? I'd love to hear you try to explain that one. There are no 'pests' in the environment other than humans. Everything else plays a specific role that keeps the world functioning in a way that allows us to live in it. As soon as the environment is gone, so are we, whether or not you continue to purposely ignore that fact.

I will call your parents irresponsible because they were, and even worse, they raised an irresponsible piece of garbage.



Yes, I suppose I should trust the opinion of somebody flaunting his own ignorance and irresponsibility over my own educated opinion. I'm curious how much of your ecosystem you've studied. Why don't you give me a breakdown? Let's see how much you really know. I'm sure you won't give me a breakdown, though, because it would only further expose your already blatant ignorance and you know it.



Game animals aren't endangered, you imbecile. The fact that you would insinuate that they are only flaunts your ignorance. Game animals are animals that have regulated hunting seasons. They are animals that either tend to overpopulate or have a large enough population to be able to withstand a hunting season. They are also animals that are valuable to humans either for food or fur.

It's not okay for you to kill snakes because you obviously don't know your ass from your elbows when it comes to it. You could be killing abundant snakes, which wouldn't be a big deal, or you could be killing rare snakes, which would be a huge deal. It doesn't matter to you because you are a selfish, irresponsible little twit. All you care about is your convenience and your amusement, and it doesn't bother you that you and animals you are responsible for are making things tougher for future generations of humans.

Apparently, you seem to think that since we live in an ignorant, irresponsible society, it's okay for you to lower yourself to this country's extremely low standard. It's not okay and you shouldn't settle like the rest of these simpletons. It's a shame this country is that way- it's a bigger shame to lose people who should know better just because the rest of the country is doing it.

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Ouch



You really went off there Chris.

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Yeah, but this is a subject Chris is really passionate about, I guess. Kylito and Chris have opinions at opposite sides of the spectrum, and you know what they say, opposites attracts and get into a big argument in the process.
Meh, I'm not getting involved.

On the subject of pleasant experiences in nature, I just came back from a long walk around a large park near my area, and just walked around London. I'm feeling so mellow right now, kinda' stoned even. Just walking and seeing new areas makes me feel like I'm on holiday. Ah, and the weather, a beautiful evening breeze. Ah.. I feel strange. Usually these kinds of walks would make me feel sad, thinking about some depressing shit that's been going on, but today, I was just "at peace" so to speak. Fucking hell I feel strange.

Sounds nice...hope to see London one day perhaps.
On the subject....
These were taken about an hour ago right out back....75 ft from the back door.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../wldlife/l1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../wldlife/l2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../wldlife/l3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../wldlife/t1.jpg

Aww cute little things.

I saw a Gator two days ago...they're cute to...kinda...I'm headed out back again to see what I see.
It's 4:17 pm and the sun is bright....might find something.
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4:51
Same stuff...
Lizard
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../wldlife/l4.jpg
Duck
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../wldlife/d1.jpg
Stuff for them to enjoy...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...ldlife/sar1.jpg
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Chris...it's cool I post this stuff?

When I lived in Idaho I killed a few rattle snakes with a 40 calibur glock. There where little kids running about the property, up the mountains, creeks, ect. If one of them had gotten bitten it would have been very bad for everyone. (the nearest Mcdonalds was an hour away. Imagine how far the nearest hospital was) As for the dogs and horses... We had plenty of Vaccine for them. I'd say that protecting the kids was a good reason to kill those potentially deadly snakes.


What would you have done?

Cool stuff, Chris. Its nice to see that some people are still interested with the small things in life. Makes me wonder why I, myself, never seem to make time for such adventure.

It depends on the situation, honestly. It's my understanding that prarie rattlesnakes are quite common out where you are, so killing a few here and there really doesn't hurt a population, and because of that I honestly don't find much fault there.

As far as what I would have done, I probably would have employed a method frequently used by some in areas with vens- a large, plastic trash can. What people generally do with this is take a broom, rake, stick, or snake hook and use it to force the snake into the can. Generally, the snake will prefer the can to the stick it's being harassed with and will go in quite calmly. As long as the stick is long, you really don't stand much of a chance of getting hurt. The only problem is that you'd need to find a trash can with locking lids. They usually use the kind that are about 4 feet tall, which means any snake up to 4 feet and change won't be able to get up and get out. You still want a locking lid, though, in case the can gets knocked over.

What they do after that is drive out maybe 30-60 minutes to the desert, mountains, woods, or whatever secluded, seldom traveled areas you have out there, which would mostly be plains, plateaus, valleys, and mountains in Idaho. Then they release the snakes where nobody will be bothered by them. We have no dangerous snakes where I live, but I do employ a similar method to remove spiders from my house.

Of course, like I said, I understand prarie rattlesnakes to be quite common in Idaho, and unless I'm wrong about that, it's not much of a big deal. It gets to be a big deal when people kill them in significant numbers or go out specifically looking for them to kill. It gets to be a huge problem when people gas or dynamite their dens.

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well I saw several elsewhere off my property, but I only shot two on my property... because they where by the creek and on my drive way. we had a shit load of sweet animals out there too. A family of Quail wandered the land... A bull moose (fucking enourmouse).Pretty wicked shit.

Wow, what a giant pile of blind bitchass insults and twisted B.S. you have wrought this time. I really didn't want to get into this, but using the word "irresponsible" in the context you did pissed me off just as much as snake abuse bothers you. There is too much crap in here to bother with and I'm in a hurry, so I'll flip a coin... Heads I respond to your erroneous statements, tails I watch "Blade: Trinity" before I go out tonight (stand by)

Thank god, it was tails... I will just pick one especially retarded thing to respond to and be done with this...



Read your post again and compare it to mine. If you honestly can't see that you are in fact the immature crybaby who can't stand being called out for his own faults then that is a shame. Hopefully you will mellow out with age and see more of the world with your own eyes instead of blindly discriminating against people from different cultures who have valid subjective opinions and present them in a non-hostile manner. Your failure to accept that people are part of nature and that everything they do is therefore natural is what makes continuing this "argument" pointless. You seem like a semi-smart guy but you have a whole lot to learn before you can go around talking blind shit to people who are far more experienced than you. Your constant need to use insults to combat simple logic is sad and really reflects poorly on the educational system in your area and on your family and friends too for that matter. (And I'm not talking about the good-nature shit talking and flaming that most people engage in here, I'm talking about the mean-spirited self-righteous personal insults that you hand out like candy around here and you can't blame it on PMS so you have no excuse outside of ignorance). And you ARE being selfish by trying to protect the ecosystem because you are doing it in an attempt to please yourself. If you aren't aware that the scope of the word selfish is subjective then you have clearly never really thought about it much.

This one part really stuck out to me Kylito...
It's true...of the 6 billion+ humans on the planet...MOST are not scientist.
Most go with what they know of growing up. There cant be a blame for that in and of itself.

Chris you're a scientist despite any degrees or experience...it's plain to see you strive for the truth and are a purist when it comes to matters in your field of study....like any good/real scientist should.

Just some food for thought for everyone.


I'm Buying!!!

God damn you Chris and Kylito I have to say something here.

We have had words before Chris and I droped the issue out of good grace, so I feel that you can never just let someone have a different point of view in contrast to yours without having the last post. Both of you are could just snap at each other for the rest of Metaltabdom but it would just ruin the whole forum. Who is right and who is wrong?.... Who the fuck cares! It is a forum, so disagree. It happens, but do stop trying to E-slay each other with insults no matter how factual they are based. I am taking sides with the continued members on metaltabs that hate to see shit like this carry on. I know this shit happens and most people just let it go after time. It really doesn't matter who is right. I understand both of your views. Kill what threatens your homestead but preserve natures balance... There are is no real extreme here.

I know you like reptiles, Chris, but you had to know that it some people would have to disagree with the best day of your year so far. I would be happy if I could take you back to my home in Southern IL. My home is inside a wildlife refuge that measures >100 square miles. Indians lived there before the government ran them off and most of it is still very wild. There are reptiles like you wouldn't believe. There are old snapper turtles in some lakes that people over 80 years old remember seeing as a kid that can still be seen today. Some scientist believe that some of those old snappers have been around since the US Civil War. They are monsters with many fish hooks hanging out of there mouths. Not to mention the amount of snakes that live there. You would be in Heaven.

I would love to show you those places someday. If you ever travel out that way once I'm free of the Navy in a few years then I would be glad to show it all to you, but if you are going to be a mean ass E-flamer like here, then forget it. My friends back home might make you disapear within a day for flaming them like you do people here. People are never right about anything and they disagree about everything. That is nature. You are a smart dude. Be calm. Kylito said something you don't like but you made it much worse imo.

2 words, Good grace.

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all i have to say on the subject is, it is good to see some non-australians to have something to say on snakes other than "AHHHHHH SNA3KXORZA R T3H B1T35." not to be racially biased, but traditionally a lot of people not from australia are terrified of snakes, i find to be the case, simply through lack of knowledge. i know if i was in, e.g. america and came across a cougar or a bear, i'd be probably frozen stiff with fear whereas the locals would laugh at me saying "it's no harm to you, silly boy."

i don't live near snakes unfortunately, but whenever i head out to the countryside, i'm aware of them. they are insanely beautiful creatures that pose no harm to humans without aggravation. i would never kill a snake. i'm not sure why i'm a fan of them, but they're certainly very pretty things.

Aussie Snakes are the most deadly in the world but they are not that aggressive and they are slow to temper compared to others in to world. N. Americian snake are a completely different story. That one Aussie dude named, Steve Irwin, came here and got the hell bit out of him by fucking with snakes. N. Americian snakes may not be a deadly as a Aussie snakes but if you grab one by the tail it IS going to take a bite out of your ass. They are fast as hell. Not to mention that once you let go thay chase your ass too.

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soul: that ridiculous, over-enthusiastic yobbo is a black glitch on our country's otherwise normally fine reputation. you are right though, we got some pretty filthy snakes but, you can simply just stand still and they will probably just slither right around you. once again, beautiful creatures.

I figured that Steve dude was out of his mind. No sane person, reptile loving Aussie or not, would fuck with snakes that are world renown to be the fastest, bad tempered in the world. Many US snakes will leave you alone if you give them a chance to leave first, but that crazy fuck just grabed them by the tail!!!! Well he got bit and yes they can kill you quite fast if you don't get to a hospital within an hour or less.

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he doesn't have a mind that he can be out of in the first place

I thought as much. Seems TV owns him too. He will do anythings for a rating point or two.

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we should post in the RTT now soul. don't want to hijack chris's thread, i'm still iffy about breaking the rules just for a while yet (i'm going to the footy now anyway). but i'm quite happy to discuss him there once i get back.

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My aunt lives in texas and my grandmother visits every year or so this year she comes back and tells this sick story how she sees this baby snake and crushes it. I was pissed as hell when I heard cause I've loved snakes since I can remember but I wasn't mad cause it was in my aunts driveway. The only animal I like better than the snake is the mongoose and it's been like since I saw a movie a long time ago called riki tiki tavi. My favorite snakes change all the time right now it's the inland taipan the atom bomb of the mouse world 275,000 mice in one bite or 100 people and even if you live there's and good chance of permanent nerve damage. I never gone snake hunting but I might considering my family owns 99 acres of land in missisipi. canebrakes racers cottonmouths all that good stuff.

I have been very close to a Taipan snake. Thank god glass was between us. They have 3 at the zoo in St. Louis. In fact, they have one of the greatest snake keeps in the world. Taipan snakes don't look like much at but they ARE the A-bomb of venom indeed.

Cottonmouths are the amoung the evilest of all snake as well. Just nasties fuckers. I thought I got bit by one once but it was only a rat snake, thank God!

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I don't want to get bite by any snake rat or taipan or any animal. I would love to see a taipan but I live in chicago no good snake exhibits that i've seen. But snakes in the zoo tend to bore me that's why I love animal planet.

Actually, snake abuse is a minor nuisance on the scale of things that irritate me. I extend to it no more importance than the Red Sox losing a baseball game. What does bother is the destruction of this planet by humans for their own convenience. Whether or not you continue to ignore this or take offense by it, that's irresponsible, just like letting loose a predator where it does not belong. You're hung up on the whole snake thing when that really isn't my deal.

If you really want to argue which of us is the most immature, it's really a moot point. Perhaps I did go a little bit overboard, but you specifically added things just to irritate me- I hope you won't insult anybody's intelligence by insisting that your constant reference to snakes, how you think their worthless, and how you kill them for fun wasn't just your anger getting the best of you and/or you trying to get on my nerves. Why? Because you thought the reason I said you were irresponsible is because you let your cat kill snakes. In reality, I said you were irresponsible for allowing an unnatural predator to prowl an ecosystem in which it did/does not belong. This is a huge problem all over this country- and when I say that, I mean both invasive species in general as well as domestic cats in particular. The fact of the matter is that lots of animals can be invasive species, and, in fact, the worst example I can even imagine is that of a snake, the aforementioned brown tree snake in Guam.



Australia has a ton of snake diversity, and it's too much of a generality to say their snakes are more passive than ours. Actually, they have some exceptionally aggressive species, some of which are highly venomous. In the US, on the other hand, the most aggressive species are harmless, such as racers, whipsnakes, and water snakes. Our venomous snakes consist of two coral snakes and 35 some odd pit vipers, all of whose defensive behaviour ranges anywhere from normal to downright docile.

Australia has more fast snakes than we do, our fastest snakes are the aformentioned racers and whipsnakes. There are no North American snakes that will chase you. In fact, the only two snakes in the world that would chase a person are irritated black mambas (an African species) and nesting king cobras (an Asian species). There are also many North American snakes that either bite rarely or never, something you could say about the snakes of any continent where they exist. There's too much diversity to accurately compare an entire continent's species, really.

As far as Steve Irwin, he always gets bitten by non-venomous snakes because of the way he handles them. Most snake catchers hold aggressive or dangerous species just behind the head so they can't bite. Steve contends that this can be potentially harmful to the anmal, and therefore handles non-venomous snakes in a way that allows them to bite him at will. He is far more careful with vens. As you probably know, Australia is the only continent where vens outnumber non vens, so that would explain why he gets bitten more in North America (he also gets bitten a lot by non-vens in Asia and Africa).

To change the subject a little bit, I like Steve Irwin, but nobody beats Mark O'Shea.

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I'll be damned. I didn't know some of that. I do disagree about N. American snakes not chasing people though. I have seen and been chased by cottonmouths a few times. They don't chase you very far but they will run you away a good distance. As for being chased by a Black Mamba, that would be a nightmare come true. Those things just need to be kept away from people areas.

I think that Steve and Mark are both out of their minds but I do enjoy watching them. The snakes they catch must be really freaked out that a person would try to catch them.

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I didn't know we had two coral snakes matter of fact isn't the coral snake our only elapid. I do know we have an abundance of pit vipers bushmaster rules them all. Getting chased by a mamba would be hell on earth and the king cobra 18ft long your a dead man cause the likey hood of you making it to the hospitle in those areas in time are slim to none. Australia they have the tiger snake and as far as i'm concerned he's the worse extremly agrressive. What is wierd is that australia has the most venomus snakes or animals in the world but more people in india are killed by cobras and russells. Just proves wear your damn shoes.

Tiger snakes are cranky, but Taipans are fucking evil. I've heard all sorts of stories (most of them apocryphal, but hey) about what they've done. Whoever said Australian snakes were docile and pleasant is operating under a serious misappre-fucking-hension. Even pussy species like the red-belly will quite happily bite you if you go near enough to them.

Oh, and what you call the central/inland Taipan is still called the Fierce Snake here. It is quite possibly the cuntiest snake in the world. Like some Australian spiders, some evolutionary fluke has endowed it with neurotoxins which are so savagely damaging to humans it's almost comical. However, they're actually pretty rare and live only in a very limited area in central Australia. Thank fuck. If they lived around here I'd pray before leaving the house.

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I've heard it being called the fierce snake before. But from what i've heard they don't bite many people there not that common. Brown snakes and stuff like that is what I hear you guys have problems with. They are edowed freakishly powerful neurotoxin but it get worse they combine it with hemotoxin I use to think hemo was restricted to vipers and some rearfanged snakes. So no wonder the stories are so apocalyptic. It's and horrible way to die bleed from evey part of your necrosis blackouts dizziness suffocation you name.

Agreed. I was not intentionally trying to rile you up over snakes, it just subliminally happened since that was the main creature under discussion. Bringing other animals like coyotes and brine shrimp and such into it seemed unnecessary. It's not like I was on a 24/7 killing spree because most of my free time was spent listening to metal since I was a city slicker trapped in redneck paradise for 7 years. To this day I have never bought a gun myself, it's really just a part of everyday life in certain communities. I take back anything I might have accidentally said that was overboard or personally insulting and will remind you that your taste in music is excellent IMO.

And Bia, I also am a scientist, but in the consumer electronics field which is why my consciousness has little room left to care much about animals these days since it is overloaded with constantly evolving circuitry and computer programs. Different factions of science always seem to be getting on each other's nerves for one reason or another and it will always be like that. I am constantly in the middle of battles between hardware designers and firmware designers because they can't relate to each other and they are constantly blaming each other for product bugs, etc... I typically have to investigate with my arsenal of test equipment and determine the truth of what the root cause of the issue is and assign blame to the guilty party without pissing them off or making them look like total idiots. It's very amusing sometimes how bitchy grown men can be when you tell them they are wrong and they caused the company to lose X amount of money due to customer returns and complaints.

I'm sure I don't need to clarify this for your sake, but just so nobody else gets any ideas, when I say North American vens aren't aggressive (and are sometimes docile), don't take that as a sign that you can touch one if you see it. Whether or not they are less likely to bite you than other venomous snakes, the fact remains that it's still a possibility, and some of our snakes are extremely toxic.

Getting back into general snake discussion for a moment, we are lucky to live in the US. Only about 1 people per year die of snake envenomation because of all our excellent hospitals and ready supply of antivenin. Of course, antivenin is extremely expensive, so if you get bitten and need it, you could be paying for it for years. Another interesting thing about the US is that Copperheads (Agkistrodon contortrix) are responsible for the most venomous snake bites in this country, and they have extremely mild venom. I'd be curious to find out when the last person died from a Copperhead bite. I'd be surprised if it were anytime within the last 50 years.



Yep, coral snakes are our only elapids. We have two species, a medium sized one that's a couple of feet long known as the Eastern Coral Snake (Micrurus fulvius), which inhabits southern states, from Florida to Texas and then southward, I believe. The second is the Arizona Coral SnakeMicruroides euryxanthus), which is very small, about a foot long. I'm not sure how dangerous it is, coral snakes already have small fangs, so I'm not sure one that's only a foot long would be able to even break skin. I've been meaning to look into that for a while.

Just to clarify, these snakes wouldn't be chasing you over much of a distance, just enough so that they are comfortable knowing you don't intend to harm them. It's still an extremely dangerous situation if, by chance, you happen to find yourself in it. Of course, you'd have a better chance of winning the lottery than ever finding yourself in that scenario.

As far as more people dying in India, third world countries always have a much higher rate of death resulting from snake bite than well off countries, even when the well off countries have a large amount of highly venomous species. There are a lot of reasons for this. First off, in Australia, everybody is wearing shoes. In Australia, people aren't living in rural villages overrun with rats, and as a byproduct, snakes as well. Also, on the chance that somebody gets bitten in Australia, their hospitals and clinics are excellent, whereas those in places like India try their absolute best, but lack the funding to be anywhere near the level of well off countries.



The worst snake bite on the planet would be either a boomslang (Dispholidus typus) or one of the more venomous Echis species. The venom of Echis species varies greatly even within a single species. Of course, I've heard that snakes with almost entirely neurotoxic venom such as Naja naja aren't painful at all- in fact, the late Karl Kauffield described a bite from which he lost consciousness as "not at all unpleasant". Of course, some Naja, such as the black-necked spitting cobra, Naja nigricollis, have considerable amounts of hemotoxic and cardiotoxic venom, which would be very painful.

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I do know that a coral snake has a powerful neurotoxic in it's spit, so you don't even have to be bitten through the skin to die from it. It seeps through your skin. Most people don't even know they have been bitten by them.

Also, I think more people die in India from snakes because they have so many people and there isn't enough hospitals. There are so many people there that they are taking up the snakes area and paying for it.

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Well, coral snakes don't have venom in their spit in a practical sense, but literally speaking, venom itself is nothing more than modified saliva. They have two seperate glands for producing saliva- normal, harmless saliva, and venom. Of course, the gland that produces venom is called the 'venom gland' for practical reasons, but like I said, literally, it's just producing a second form of saliva. You know some herpetologists contend that many snakes use venom more to aid in digestion than to subdue their prey? Interesting idea they have.

The reason I bring up the question of whether Micruroides would cause serious damage in the average bite is because as a kid, I remember reading that a large percentage of people bitten by eastern coral snakes aren't envenomed because it's fangs didn't break the person's skin. I figured since Arizona is much smaller than the eastern, the likelihood of being envenomed in the rare case of an Arizona coral snake bite. Like I said, I've been meaning to try to look up some serious statistics on that, you know- how many people per year are envenomed, how many people in the last 100 years have died because of Micruroides envomation, etc. I've been curious about this since I was a kid.

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I wouldn't think very many people would have died from Coral snake bites. I never even hear about them biting people for that matter, but back home seems like people are always getting bite by Copperheads and Cottonmouths. Even after you have been treated the venoms effects last for years to come from thoses snakes. My guess is that the damage the venom did is the caused of the problems years later. It hurts like hell when you get bit too I hear.

I think the most painful bite would be from a Gaboon Viper. They have 2 inch fangs

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I think maybe a small child who lotions there skin often would get evenomated me My skin is tough even when lotioned so not much to worry about. Elapids are the low species here. I had to look up alot of what you said but saw-scaled vipers from what I read would be easily survived. Boomslangs never thought of a rear fanged snake as a threat but bleeding from every part of your body is not even fun. Mojave rattle snake is a good exaple. Hemotoxic bites are the worst bites muscle tissue blood cell destroying but neurotoxic bites are far more more deadly both can take permanent effects. The gaboon viper 2 inch long fangs thats like taking a small medicine cup of venom in your arm but a snake so exotic rarely kills people. The king of snakes are the constrictors with a cobra you have a chance of taking antivenom and living reticulated pythons there is no medicine that will save you. Anyone know how many species of snake there are exactly.

Gaboon Viper would suck, but I'd be a lot more worried about the amount of venom than the size of the fangs. Besides having huge fangs, they have huge heads with huge venom glands.



Saw-scaled and carpet vipers cause more deaths than any other snake on the planet. Like I said, the venom varies greatly, even within a single species, and it's something that baffles scientists. It can range anywhere from moderately toxic to extremely toxic. Their bites can cause the same symptoms as boomslang bites, which would be extremely painful. You would bleed from every orifice of your body.

Nobody can say the exact number of species of snake because of the frequency with which species disappear, as well as the frequency with which new species are discovered. This is further exacerbated by taxonomists constantly arguing the validity of certain species. It can be said, however, that approximately 2800 species exist.

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