http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence01.html

Take this into consideration: "Some scientists theorize that NDEs are produced by brain chemistry. But, Dr. Peter Fenwick, a neuropsychiatrist and the leading authority in Britain concerning NDEs, believes that these theories fall far short of the facts. In the documentary, "Into the Unknown: Strange But True," Dr. Fenwick describes the state of the brain during a NDE:

"The brain isn’t functioning. It’s not there. It’s destroyed. It’s abnormal. But, yet, it can produce these very clear experiences ... an unconscious state is when the brain ceases to function. For example, if you faint, you fall to the floor, you don’t know what’s happening and the brain isn’t working. The memory systems are particularly sensitive to unconsciousness. So, you won’t remember anything. But, yet, after one of these experiences [a NDE], you come out with clear, lucid memories ... This is a real puzzle for science. I have not yet seen any good scientific explanation which can explain that fact." "

By the way, I'm not on either side of this debate as of now.

Bullshit.

Did you notice how many things this chick is selling on that and her own website from her album to several books? She's just cashing in on what people want to hear. Also the assertion that the brain is not functioning at all is unlikely. You can't turn something that complex completely off all at once. If you or anyone you know has experimented with lucid dreaming you would know how real and vivid imagined out of body experiences can be. One of my friends has had some wicked "out of body" experiences and I've had two death experiences plus some insanely real dreams. It took me three days to convince myself that one of these dreams didn't actually happen and I had to interview my friends to piece that together and convince myself it never actually happened.

My favorite quote from that website is: "When I came back, they were playing Hotel California and the line was "You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave." I mentioned [later] to Dr. Brown that that was incredibly insensitive and he told me that I needed to sleep more."

dont know. i almost died and i didnt have any NDE

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I've had quite a few lucid dreams, but I have to be over slept and exausted to have a lucid dream. I can't make myself have them, but once I'm in them I can control them of course. Funny though, ALL lucid dreams I've ever had were possession and with exorcist style body language...quite cool too

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Possession huh? That's sounds like good entertainment.

Those dream machines work for most people and there are several other daily routine based methods that work for people I know. One thing that works pretty much every time is to wear a nicotine patch while you are sleeping (not recommended for non-smokers of course). That will give you vivid dreams all night long and it wouldn't take you long to get to the point where you consciously take over your dreams and intentionally cause things to happen in them. Writing them down or recording what happened will reinforce you mind's predeliction towards having them in the future. The first time you take active control of a dream and remember doing it the next day is usually the breakthrough point.

when did you almost die?

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I always have dreams where it is hard to convince myself they are not real, I have had dreams where I can't convince myself for a while that never happened. They usually are nightmares when I have to convince myself it's not real....like this one time I had a dream where I locked this dude in an iron maiden in my closet, and his corpse in the iron maiden has been there for a year in the dream. I always feel such joy to find out It was a dream. I think I actually checked my closet to make sure it wasn't real. I haven't had near death expieriences though.

Why are people talking about dreams?

Because the chick with the NDE was dreaming...

Here is the bottom line....

NDE means one thing.....you NEVER died.
The heart, lungs and other things can go lifeless....but UNTIL the brain loses enough oxygen to never return...you have not died.

People love drama and ghosts type stories......the sensation people speak of during NDE are likely the brain is on it's way to death.....chances are it's flooded with endorphins...serintonin (sp?) and is freaking out due to the fact it's slipping slowly away.....there is no way to tell what the fuck is going on from even the most advanced experts.....just theories as far as the "sensations" that come with NDE.

Pseudo scientist love this garbage and can easily impress the dumb with fancy words and medical jargon.....but until you have reached the point of no return.....you never died.

Now I gotta go do a rant on Wives tales and urban legends.....I hate that shit!

IOOooppen your minnd! !

I did....years ago and found a bunch of SHIT.

heh

I don't dream. Being a daily pot smoker, you sleep differently when you're stoned, BUT, if I go to bed straight, get prepared for some wacked shit lol.

On topic though - I don't think that it's bullshit, i've heard heaps of stories like that. My mother had a head injury, was in a coma for 3 weeks and had to have brain surgery, rehab for 8 months, but this wasn't her story. It's of another lady that was in there at the time and she was in a coma aswell, at some stage one of the nurses decided to nab some of her jewellery when this lady finally woke up, she asked that very nurse for it back. She said she was watching from the ceiling above her own body, and saw her take it. Needless to say the nurse shat herself.

Anyway, I think it's for real.

Eww.

Cool.

Yup. For example...ya know the part in the exorcist when regan's arse is sitting on the bed, and her upper torso is being flung around in circles and back and forward? I did that a couple times, then I floated to the mirror like a spider, and start smacking the shit out of my forehead.

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That is a damn good movie isn't it!.

My friend Steve had a great one last year where he was on an alien planet and he encountered himself. Then he got into a martial arts fight with himself and at that point he was kicked awake by his wife because he was punching her in his sleep.

Unfortunately, mine are usually tamer off the wall things like high speed cross country skiing in plain tennis shoes through a city in mid-summer. I'm hoping to do some serious experimentation in the future and get into some more Matrix type shit because I've already done the flying thing...

Sure....you brain is always recording....even in your sleep....your brain hears everything yet few of us have the recall for it.....for we really have no need to recall it. However...it's still stored in there forever.....and at times.....pieces can surface for the oddest of reasons.

I drempt I fell off of some scaffolding....saw my lifeless body from above as a crowd gathered...I kept telling them I was ok but they didnt hear.
Seeing ones self from above is common in dreams and various states of unconsciousness.....this womas brain KNEW who took her jewelry...and due to the coma places it in a context she could identify with.....like watching the theft from above in a dream like state.

Sure...I could be wrong......but so could they.

slight rant....
My death dream proves that old wives tale incorrect...
I heard my entire life by MANY people..."If you dream you die....you die in your sleep"
and I swear.....many of these people believed this with fury and passion....just like the morons that believe if you drop a penny off of the empire state building.....it will kill a pedestrian due to the distance of the fall would have it going 100s of times faster than if dropped from 20 ft.
DUHHHHHH
"Terminal Velocity" people.....look it up.

or if you sneeze 8 times in a row...your heart stops.
LMFAO

Finally, metaltabs discussion is shifting towards a metaphysical slant for once. I was wondering when that would happen.

If I'm not mistaken, once heart and lung functions have ceased, brain functions ceases very shortly afterwards, and even if it did retain some amount of oxygen, it would be busy trying to revive vital organs somehow, and I doubt it would have enough to sustain grandiose near death experiences. We all know of cases of people being restricted of oxygen for 5-10 minutes and suffering severe brain damage or brain failure, so I would certainly would doubt a 45 min. out of body excursion occuring because of brain tissue surviving that long, and functioning at that capacity. Actually, after about 2 minutes, ( and this is being generous with time ), without oxygen, i.e. cease of lung function, the brain starts to suffer immense, irreversable damage, and no doubt the first functions of the brain to go would be the ones not necessary to sustain life. For instance, the portion of the brain used to project subconscious imagery and experience, and thus any chance of possible postmortem delusions of grandeur, would undoubtedly expire. Kalmahswamp summarised it very well in the next post in this thread, a flatlined patient is a flatlined patient.

Bia...in a coma, your sensory output is shut down, thus you wouldn't hear, see, or feel anything. Hence your explanation, I believe, is not legit. Your motor output continues to integrate, so you stay alive.

Yeah Bia, your points are specious.

it's simple, Beer. people just want money.


i've sneezed 13 times in a row (evilly grim) and, although i nearly lost consciousness from hyperventilation, my heart continued to pump blood and keep the animal conscious.

Wive's tales are gay. I've probably died a thousand times in a dream. And, if you lucid dream, you can actually kill yourself and find out the truth.

I can't be bothered doing the specific mathematics - particularly with this hangover - but dropping a penny from 1,000 feet is no different to dropping it from about 100 feet, as you correctly stated. However, although I doubt a penny would be sufficiently massive to induce death, it would still more than likely cut a fair way into your head. Put it this way, I wouldn't want to put the theory to the test with my own head!

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I had an "out of body experience" about 19 years ago.
I was having an operation, and I watched 99% of it as if my back was on the ceiling, or as if I was 6 inches from the doctors hands.
I remember it like it happened 5 minutes ago.

Now, I'm not saying that I did indeed actually leave my body (although I am almost certain I did) because I realize that it might have been my mind's way of dealing with the tremendous pain that I was in.

While I wish the operation had never taken place (I have never been the same since) I am glad that I had that experience. If nothing else, it makes for a cool story! lol