Yeah you might have heard about it...

Fuck, how bad does this suck. way to get a nation into the shitters against muslims.

for those who don't know who the guy is, he was a Dutch filmmaker and columnist who had open opinions about the islam, terrorism, radical imams, etc. He made a film with muslim people that agreed with him on those points and muslim terrorist treathened him, today he was gunned down and stabbed afterwards.

The guy who did it was a 26 year old Maroccan muslim, the police shot him in the leg in the amsterdam park a few moments later.
He gunned down a cop on a bike and riddled several police cars with holes, sick shit, but I'm happy they got the piece of shit.

This is seriously shit, because we had the murder on the right wing politician first and now this, there's a lot of tension between muslims and born dutchies here, I can see this heading for trouble.

this remembers me of those muslims in Ede, where I live close too, on the liberation day of WWII they where screaming about allah in the minute of silence for the casualties of the war. that fucking pissed me off. and this shit does too, I think there's going to be a lot of trouble this night.

There's extra news bulletins on all day, the prime minister allready responded and he looked shocked. man, where is this shit heading too....

If these people don't respect Western culture and civilization, why don't they just fuck off back to the Middle East and other Muslim states? But that would be too hard on them: they wouldn't get their benefits over there would they?

This is getting ridiculous.

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it is. the problem is, theres going to be escalation.

there's a memorial walk in amsterdam tonight, I might go with a friend and drink some beer in memory of Theo and his openminded columns which I read every friday. He knew what he was talking about, he studied the koran and lived in marocco and shit, for telling it like it is he got shot, just like Fortuyn. Except Fortuyn would have been the next prime-minister if he didn't get killed in the week before his election...

Sick, I don't know if I should go tonight to pay my respects, there might be a LOT of trouble in amsterdam tonight.

Although I didn't had a lot of sympathy towards neither Fortuyn or van Gogh, the country's going waaaaay in the wrong direction when you get murdered on the streets for what you believe in.

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exactly, I wonder what's going to happen tonight... it's not going to be a silent march, thats for sure. Man, I allways read his column on fridays in the train, I'll miss those.

I sure as hell hope those murders stop here.
Christ, imagine if they's also murder Hirshi Ali? That would be the end of our multi cultural society.

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yeah, who knows it'll end tonight, kinda depends, for christ sakes, there a LOT of poeple going to amsterdam tonight!

fuck it, I'm going too, I want to be part of this anyways. If there's trouble I'll get my ass out of there.

damn man that sucks

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The world is just circling around the shitter these days.

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agreed. this sucks. anyways, I'm going to take the train now to amsterdam, I'll get back about this tonight. laters.

this is why i hate muslims

Religion is crap, it only makes problems.

You went too DEF?

I think I spotted you... did you wear an hatebreed sweater?

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i dont know about the guy involved here ,but this is a pretty good reason to think about this: wouldn't we be all better off if we lived in our own countries? this doesnt go for america, because it is based on the "melting pot" basis of our government. but for muslims in the netherlands to be making any kind of fuss is ridiculous. wouldn't it be best if all countries became racist and isolationist?
dont get all pissy here either, im just offering one point of view that you dont hear much

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Thats kinda weird comming from a guy that wants to move to Iceland or Norway.

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Good idea!

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Sucks man..hes sounds like a Dutch Micheal Moore

And Transient.. your idea sucks..

"wouldn't it be best if all countries became racist and isolationist?"

OH YES! CAUSE THAT WOULDNT CAUSE ANY PROBLEMS....


And John... your statement surprised me and disgusted me at the same time, I would of thought a man of your stature would have a different, more optimistic view on such an affair.

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what people need to understand is that todays society does not have room for such archaic and violent religions, and we need to erm... shit, for lack of a better word, "purify" and fucking kill islam, the religion founded on violence and hate.

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Wow this thread is just full or B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T

None of you practice Islam, thus have NO fucking idea what it was founded on... but i can guarantee it was not hate.

Just cause their Brown dosent mean their terrorist. I hope Atif reads this thread and can explain thing more in depth to me (Sorry for singling you out Atif )

Bush has made you all so paranoid and afraid of any Arab's, its quite sad.

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i am very anti-muslim too, but its because this is a two way street. its unbelievably easy to call someone racist against muslims, oh dear poor muslim they got bombed boo-boo-hoo but as i said it is a two way street.

muslims almost certainly hate us westerners more than we hate them. thats the one thing my hatred is based on. i know a couple of very pleasant arab guys at school (funnily enough, non-lebanese) and some not so pleasant arabs (even more funnily enough, lebanese, although this is the wrong thread for a leb-hating discussion).

i think most of the hatred between muslims and westerners is because of the media. you look at any news channel. any good news about that particular race, the word "muslim" will not be mentioned. they will be arabs, or they will be middle-eastern, but 99 times out of 100 they will not be tagged as muslims. look at bad news, terrorist attacks etc, conversely 99/100 times they will be "muslim" rebels, "muslim" extremists, muslim this and that.

i will re-state my case: i dont hate all muslims because they have different skin or customs or accents, i hate the ones that portray themselves as idiots by blowing things up and hating westerners.

EDIT: all that said, i personally wouldnt give a flying fuck whether or not islam became defunct, although for the most part i think it may be better.

Wake up, its basically the truth. The fuck up their own countries and then move to more stable countries and fuck them up with their intolerance. When it comes to islam, fuck optimism, they've had 1482 years to make us feel optimistic. Within months of starting the Islamic religion, Muhammad and his followers were killing people in Arabia.

Face it, although the basis of Islam (and Christianity, Judaism, etc.) is revolves around peace and kindness, the corruption and evil in mankind turns the followers into hypocritical twisted fucks. In the Koran, it stresses that there is only one god, Allah, and that only by following the Islamic principles can you reach heaven. Sure, the same applies in other religions, but it isn't stressed as much. Everywhere where a significant percentage of the population is muslim, there are problems. there are muslims fighting christians (US, western world, Armenia), muslims fighting jews (Israel), muslims fighting hindus (Jammu & Kashmir), muslims fighting buddhists (Thailand, nice work Thaksin) and muslims killing black people in Sudan.

Its sad to see what has happened to the Dutch. The europeans' over-tolerance of muslims and muslims' lack of tolerance for non-muslims (in this case the europeans) will lead to severe problems in europe if it continues. Maybe even WW3??? Tighten your border policies or you're fucked. I'd rather be racially prejudiced than be fearing for my life.

RIP Fortuyn and Van Gogh.

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not to mention what the muslims are doing in australia (and apparently now nz according to some of my gf's mates over there), although its different. busting caps, running drugs and the exact two-way racist points i brought up in my other post.

islam is without question the disgrace of the world. other religions, judaism is frustrating, christianity is petty, but none are a threat to the general world like islam, and i believe the only one capable of starting WW3.

yes i agree with cloaca, im afraid that something has to be done about islam. whether it is tightening borders like is needed, or genocide (like yugoslavia/macedonia ) something has to be done.

the australian, british and USA governments are supposed to be tackling terrorism, but they need to get off their high and mighty, "peaceful" world views (bush destroyed that anyway) and realise that the problem lies within the islamic community.

please....

we had muslims over here way before you guys even knew what they where, they lived in Holland as workers and they started to get their families over for social benefits. That was all years ago before we even knew Bush.

theres been a lot of hatred between etnic groups before, but it's only the radical motherfuckers that stand out, and we have a lot of those HERE.

simply because only the FUCKTARDS come over here to enjoy our social welfare system, the friendly marrocans are all back home in marocco, I can tell you this, because I've visited marocco and spoken to people there, the guys coming here are all 'berbers' which are basically 'the assholes from the hills'

Cloaca has a valid point, because we are SO social and open here, we got fucked up the ass by people who took too much advantage of it. see, we've got 16 million people in a small ass country, theres bound to be trouble. Our border policies have been much tighter after Fortuyn was killed, but they're going to be even more tighter now...
A LOT of people are going to vote for right-wing politicians next elections, you can bet your ass on that.

I was there yesterday on the Dam Square, it was like Amsterdam was one big mass of people, the two minutes silence where incredible, suddenly those 10.000's of people all stopped making noise.. some political leaders gave speeches and boy, some where really sharp. I think there's going to be some serious changes now, I hope Van Gogh didn't die in vain.

yeah I went. and no I don't wear hatebreed sweaters, lol. I wore a grey cap and a Arkangel sweater. I stayed till 1 at night, drinking beers with friends and girlfriends, on Theo's death. It was all pretty sad man. but those 2 minutes where impressive.

Very interesting. The berbers were those pricks that gave El Cid shit in 10th century spain.


Yay! I have been thinking about moving to Holland in a couple of years, this would encourage me.



For the sake of your country, I hope there are changes. There weren't any chanting towelheads at the square I bet.

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I haven't seen any. But I heard there where chanting towel heads in Rotterdam, I don't know if its a rumor but I heard they got their asses kicked and their car with Iraqi flags hanging out of it was burned out. But well, that was asking for it...

If muslim extremist showed their face in Amsterdam yesterday they would probably get killed, seriously, there was a lot of tension there.

Oh, for your information, Pim Fortuyn won the elections last year but he was shot before the polls closed. his party took the seat but didn't do well at all without Pim. so they had re-elections... But, I'm sure Geert Wilders has a big chance (new upcoming politician.) the thing is though, he's in hiding now because he recieved treaths too.

I seriously hope that rumour is true. Dirty cunts have no respect for the Netherlands, they should be bashed again and deported. Same thing goes for those ones you mentioned earlier interrupting your WW2 rememberance day. That fucking disgraceful. In Australia, on our WW2 day (ANZAC Day, Apr 25) there was going to be an anti war protest near the Shrine of Rememberance (big war memorial) in Melbourne. It was cancelled when the old war vets threatened to kick their uni student hippie asses.



I remember how it all happened. It was some animal rights cunt that shot him wasn't it? (not that i'm against animal rights). I haven't heard much about Geert Wilders, but if he's anything like Pim, i'd back him.

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Yeah, he was killed by a mentally insane left wing fucker. seriously, I think there's more behind it...

cool story about those war vets lol, those guys here at the WWII stuff got arrested but I'de rather see some old folks running Abrahams tanks over their asses.

yeah, i see what youre saying, but this is the reason i want to move to norway or iceland. because i cannot stand the US culture and what it stands for.

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well thats noble... but its not fair to judge people on the country they live in, hell, I don't run around screaming that all americans are hillbilly rednecks with a thirst for war now do I?

I'm flattered that you hold/held me with such high regard, BLS, but my statement was designed to reveal my view of how hypocritical some of these radical Muslims are. They are happy to live amid 'the infidels' and enjoy the benefits of a capitalist culture, but how do these Muslims then conduct themsleves? By shooting a man?

I would really, really like to hold an optimistic view on the relationship between the west and Islam but above all, I am a realist and I can't see an end to this feud. The Islamic terrorists will just find something else about the west that they can harbour hatred for. These terrorists hate western culture, it's as simple as that. I don't see why we should walk around on eggshells when it doesn't make a difference how we act.

The worst thing is that there are British Muslims who support people like Osama bin Laden and even some British Muslims who actually demand that we change our culture to accommodate their beliefs. The English flag is now considered to be racially offensive to these people. The English fucking flag! On the other hand, Westerners can't even fart the wrong way in a Muslim state without reprisal.

How dare they come over here as immigrants and then expect us to change our way of life to suit them. I'm sorry, but if you're a Muslim and you want to come to Britain, you accept how we live and just get on with things - feel free to practise Islam all you want, but don't expect Britain to become a Muslim state at your behest.

May I make it clear that the vast majority of Muslims are regular folk who don't find it necessary to wage a war against the west. Once again, the majority are failed by the minority.

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his forthcoming movie will go big time, thats for sure

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if im not mistaken BLS it says specifically in the koran that you can get passage into heaven by killing "infedels". Hell, there are even rites for beheading infedels. Fuck that, eradicate those animals.

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fuck man he was killed when he was going to the filmset

shot, stabbed and shot again in the head.

the assasin left two knives in him, one with a note in arabic.

the guy wore a muslim robe and one of those headcap things, fucking sicko. the cops shouldn't have shot him in the leg but in his fucking head.

no, you dont. thats part of the problem, is that it is using generalizing. but by the same token, all of science and chemistry is based on generilizations. "he who bends over backwards, breaks back". the idea of countries made of purely one race will not happen ever again, but it is still an interesting idea and worthy of debate

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exactly, I won't say -fucking retard american, you voted for the same donkey again!- but I might think it. In this case I know you're not one of those 'retards' so I adjusted my opinion about you on that aspect.

On another note, I might think most americans are retards. public opinion is heading strongly towards that way over here now. Though I think that's kinda silly, I like america and the americans I know are great guys, but then again, those aren't hillbilly rednecks with shotguns.

If people are not killing other races and groups their killing eachother. Isolation won't solve a damn thing, it will only make people more xenofobic than they're now. They'll just find another "different" people to hate amongst themselves.

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Brains is right on about that... Isolation wont solve a damn thing. What we need to do is blow islam to peices and then annihilate every peice.

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haha, I think you guys allready tried that and failed.

yeah, they called it "apartheid", probbably the worst dutch word in history.

You guys try looking up what it means if you don't know.

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no we havent, America is full of pussies, IE people who dick around too much, if we would grow a pair and fucking destroy the middle east, alot of the worlds problems would end, but thinking forward, theres always gonna be some douchey religous nuts fucking the world over, so whats the point?

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I would just like to point out that if the US completely killed/nuked/destroyed/take your pick, the middle east that it wouldn't solve the Islamic extremist problem. Most of the worlds islamic poeple live in Asia anyway. I'm not in favor of mass killing just becasue of a few fucktards.

In fact having the military in Iraq to help police their country is a bit harsh. It's the wrong tool for the job. A military force isn't designed to do what needs to be done in Iraq. It's like using a slug hammer on a finishing nail. The military completed it's major operation objective of freeing Iraq from Saddom's reign and waiting for a new government to form. I think Iraq will be better off in the long run, but now is the time to remove the miliary because the military is doing more damage than good now.

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well, by middle east, i meant every eastern religion, for the most part, they were created out of need for protection and assurance and the need not to fear death. Now that people no longer fear death, religion is useless as far as im concerned.

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If we nuked the Middle East so completely that everybody there was dead, wouldn't that do some terrible damage to Northern Africa, Southern Europe, Asia Minor, the Balkans, and anywhere else somewhat near it?

Anyway, as for the complete racial state: It doesn't solve any problems. It leads directly to nationalism, which does not know how to assert itself peacably - and has hundreds of years of territorial disputes and memories of fallen glory and whatever else it takes - and leaves us with exactly what Europe and the world fortunately have moved away from. The solution to new problems is never to be found by treating them as though they aren't new problems, but rather faulty solutions to older problems which need to be repealed. In any other field that wouldn't be a tolerable attitude; why should it be in world politics?

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One day, if poeple survive long enough, all races will just eventually get blended together. We won't have so many racial differences. Hopefully we will also share a common culture too and some of this fighting shit will stop.

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My comment was directed towards my fellow Americans that seem to hate all Arab's because of course, all Arabs are muslim extremist

And Soul... im glad we have people like you in the armed forces, you seem to know whats going on unlike those other fucks that humilate our POW's by stripping them and taking pictures.. id be pissed to if I was an arab.

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yes, because being stripped naked is sooooooo much worse than beheading people and shooting innocents...

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i have to admit BLS makes a good point there, with the US soldiers humiliating the iraqi prisoners like that. maybe that contradicts what i said earlier, maybe it doesnt.

but fucking oath, i think deportation is a good idea, whether or not they have lived within the country long enough to be citizens of that country. in fact i think its a great idea it would definitely lessen some problems here.

they dont like it cause its crowding their countries, boo-hoo, they should have thought of behaving themselves beforehand.

a completely different example of citizens shooting themselves in the foot is china's children policy. the chinese government saw a problem with overcrowding and introduced the one-child policy but the chinese citizens are fucking that too (by most of the people having only sons instead of daughters). sorry to get off-topic there but meh.

back on-topic, hey maybe this will teach the arabs a lesson if that is performed.

but one thing we have to remember. sorry for sounding so blunt and pessimistic here, but really, we have spineless leaders and none of us is going to get into the parliament anyway so we may as well sit here and wait for death.

i still stand by my point. Id rather be stripped naked and chained than beheaded.

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Well me too, but I can still understand Iraq's poeple being pissed about it's citizens, some even innocent, being striped down naked just for the fun of the occuping countries military. They thought we were uneithical before; well that just gave them proof. That shit was wrong but it was brought to light and responded to correctly.

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True. I think most people would. But Soul brings up a good point: the context of each action is different, and you can't just pretend they came to be from similar motives. In the case of abusing prisoners, there's a dynamic of the betrayal of trust and duty that is as, or more, important than the physical act perpetrated.

If you want to bring up a more comparable situation, go back to immediately post-9/11 when random people who vaguely looked Arab were being beaten up in 'retribution;' there, again, our random, unjustified violence comes out looking a bit better. I'm not sure how proud to be of that, though.

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A Christian American i know and one of his friends camped on an iraqi families porch for a week, holding shotguns and rifles just to protect them.

I find it really in-fucking-furiating how arab/muslim people can move out of their own country, and into others, taking advantage of the better oportunities they recieve, and then act as if they are better than people who are different to them.

I used to really hate Arabs, but a mate from Poland convinced me of how stupid and narrow minded that was. It's like hating all the Germans because a small per centage of them are/were Nazi's. You just have to keep an open mind, and remember the fact that you may be misinformed, or completely wrong. I'm not saying i'm right, because i don't know all the details, and even if i did, it's still a matter of opinion.

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Muslims often do this sort of thing. There is a rather large Iraqi population in an Australian town called Sheparton (jesus, thats not how you spell it). Most of them are refugees or family members of refugees from the Gulf war. Anyway, they recently started bitching about how the local public swimming pool didn't have allocated times for each sex (you know how youre not supposed to see women semi-naked unless they're your wife). The council bowed to their demands like the spineless cunts they are and now for 2 hours each afternoon all males have to get out so that muslim women can have the pool to themselves. Sure, this isn't a major issue in itself, but the principle of it all is sheer bullshit.

And to whoever it was that said the world's leaders are spineless, you're both right and wrong. Most are spineless, but your leaders are always going to be spineless when the people themselves are too.

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like ol' dubya!

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You know, if the world could get along like the forums I'm on it would be terrific. We all have our opinions about religion and other stuff, but we don't push it on anyone or say our way is totally right. Why they can't do something that simple is probably due to greed more than religion anyways.
I don't think wiping out an area of civilization is the key. If it was just in a certain area, then sure , it might. But not when they're scattered all over the world. It's impossible.
Not all Islamic people are terrorists either. I think a universal culture would diminsh a lot of the cultures there are today. If they don't infringe on another's rights, let them live in peace like the rest of us want to. And let us learn about each other.
I can't believe how small the world has gotten for me since being here and at tc. I've learned more than I ever did in school and from people who have lived the life.
There's an old song - "I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony" . It was used for a Coke commercial back in the 70's. I think that should be a shot heard round the world. But we gotta do what we gotta do. We aren't perfect by anymeans. Well, nomad might be close since he's our fearless leader.

How come nothing has happened in South America? It's everywhere else.

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This is the sort of thing that is happening here every day. During the European (football) Championships, many pubs were ordered to remove the Cross Of Saint George from it's windows because Muslims complained that it was 'rascist.' It's our national flag for fuck's sake - if you find it rascist, go live somewhere else. It's funny how you never hear of Christians complaining about flags containing the Islamic Crescent as being rascist or offensive.

Why is this you might say? Because we go to their countries and pay the due respect to their culture and way of life. Our women cover up in Islamic states so as not to offend, yet when a Muslim pupil is ordered to remove her Burkha as it goes against the school dress code we are pilloried as rascists.

We need tolerance, but when it's one rule for us and another for them it cannot possibly work out to a fair conclusion. We have to be ultra-careful to observe their culture and religion whereas they don't give two hoots as to what the majority of us Westerners/Christians believe (or don't believe) in.

In England, as part of our Religious Education class, we have to learn about all the major religions of the world and, for the main part, I think this is an excellent course of study. But how many schools in Islamic states will teach about Christianity or Judaism or any religion you care to mention? None. They don't care.

All these points imply, to me, that it is not the west (as a whole) that is intolerant towards Islam but the exact opposite, and while Islam holds such beligerent ideals towards the west, this situation will not change in the forseeable future.

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What hasn't happened in South America? Almost everything's happened there.


I'm not sure why you emphasize 'Christian.' An honest Christian, or anybody, should have done the same.

John gave a pretty good example of extreme concessions; Cloaca didn't. Two hours isn't too much to ask so that they don't have to break any precepts of their religion. I suppose it depends on which two hours, but it's not a bad thing to allow them to practice. It's a bad thing when anybody starts demanding more than that, like the British flag being removed. Though the cover up/burkha thing is, again, not that good an example. You wouldn't recommend going around forcing Jews to eat pork just because the school happens to be serving it. An exception like that doesn't hurt anybody, and it certainly doesn't offend anybody to be barred from seeing somebody in a schoolgirl outfit. It's a hard line to walk, but there's nothing wrong with not dictating behavior and forcing somebody to break with their faith. There is something wrong with using a position like that to dictate behavior to anyone else, and that has to be addressed. Unfortunately we haven't yet come up with an example of that happening, but I'll try and come back with one later.


Wait, did I just say that?

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holy shit thats seriosly my nightmare

THINK ABOUT IT! no culture! no special heritage! you wont have something to swell your chest about, so to speak. who wants a race with one common background? theres no more individuality.

i , for one, will fight that "grey race" with all my power

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And by pride in one group or culture comes paranioa and fanatism. If people weren't judged on what ethnicity they belonged too, such an world with different cultures wouldn't work. And I think that, when these differences are lessened and cultures are blended, people will judge each other on different grounds.

And transient, why pride in things what you didn't achieve yourself? What other people have done in your culture? You say there would be no individuality, but is an indifidual defined by his culture? Are you excactly the same as all the other people in your heritage? There will always be differences between people. Always. But if its not ethnicity, its bound to be something else.

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That's a complicated topic.
Variety is the spice of life. People fear the unknown. etc.


John, you say how it's funny you never hear of Christians complaining about flags containing the Islamic Crescent as being rascist or offensive. I hear about christians complaining about every other church all the time.

Seein how none of us practise the muslim religion. None of us know what the fuck we're talking about when it comes to this religion. I think some study in this subject would benefit us all.
Look what has been done in the name of the christian god!

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I only read the first page. I don't want to read more of this bullshit. Some of you guys are expressing opinions that are IMO completely fucked up.

I'll just add this much:
One person killed this Theo van Gogh (RIP). One guy. Not "muslims" or "islam" or "the religion based on hate and violence". One guy did it.

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HAHAHA!!!

YOU LOSE Innards-Decay AHAHAHAHA

YAY!1111 GARBLE

I remember after 9/11 i saw some retarded fucks who should be sent to Iraq and be beheaded instead of these innocents. They were tormenting a Arab friend of mine, calling him a sandnigger, terrorist.. and such.

Im a Pretty big kid and of course im known as the "Metal Head" which scares people I guess lets just say I took care of the problem. Thats just bullshit, human filth they are...

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Actualy, this guy had some friends. On the press conference, they reported (warning: corny ) "...that there may be a link to Al-Qaida"

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Once again, Al-Qaida dosent represent the Islam majority..

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does the al-qaida even exist? what actual evidence is there for it?

Well, I don't realy believe it had anything to do with Al-Qaida. They just seem to say that everytime some extremist blows up something.
But that guy who shot Van Gogh, he had some extremist friends (one of them got in the news a few months ago because he planned to bomb the parliament). Also, he lived with a few dudes some time who were involved in the Madrid bombings.

Sure, the majority of muslims are peacfull people, but there are a lot of extremists out there. Its not just one person.

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no bls, i dont believe trendkill "pwned" me as you would say, I meant ALL douchey religious nuts, not just crazy islamic bastards who behead innocents. That was directed at all, even ol' bush, hes an ugly bastard anyway.

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first off, im not at all saying that everyone should stay white. i will ensure that i and hopefully my family will remain the way they are. taking pride in the achievement of others may seem silly to some, you either do or you dont, i cant explain it or make you even care about it. its like hearing a song by a scottish composer and knowing that its from your culture and there is a bond with it and yourself.

an individual is not defined entirely by his culture, but partially, especially the more he emerses himself in the literature and music and other culture of his heritage. he/she will draw on that influence, though. there will always be differences but im not interested in mixing races. its that simple, and its how i am (not how i was raised). its a personal choice, much like being a vegan.
you want to marry that cute latino up the block, go ahead.

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yeah, just go look in Iraq, haha.

seriously, Iraq was taken to lightly, 1119'th US soldier got killed today I think. After the war that is, I mean something needs to change there, US troops are getting their ass bombed every week or so, how long will it take to solve the problem there? Maybe get the UN in? (I don't think the UN wants anything to do with Iraq though, can't blame them anyways, the safety council allways opposed the war.)

meh, you cant complain though, since they signed up and knew there would be risks though. But that doesnt keep it from being sad.

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Don't worry about it. It isn't going to happen for about another 10,000 years. You will not have any control over your kids or your kid's kids kids kids anyway. They will breed with who ever they want and besides, I don't think there is a pure blooded race in the world as it is. We are on our way to having the "grey race". It is inevitable that there will be a "grey race" and cultural differences will be ancient history. Everyone will have all ethnic and cultural backgrounds to be proud of and swell up their crest about. That is of course if the human race can survive that long. If not then ethnic pride isn't going to mean shit if there isn't anyone to remember.

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good point. But still i plan to help preserve my genes, i hear that in a 100 years, blonde haired blue eyed people will be extinct.

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Maybe. I think there will always be a few poeple with blond hair and/or blue eyes because the gene will technically not be extinct. Those are recessive phenotype genes and they only show up anyway when you have both the genes from both parents. It is still possible to carry the gene and have brown eyes and brown hair and your children to have blue eyes and blond hair. Nature is just funny that way.

I guess what I'm saying is the your genes will never die as long as you have just one child and they have one and so on. Your future relatives may look different but they will be all you. Besides genes mutate slowly over many generations anyway to adjust for environmental changes. Why do you think insects are so resistant to dieing out.

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oh i know that my attempt to preserve my genes will be in vain, but i will still try.

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Just impregnate everything you see and you will be in the green

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When I remarked about South America it was because I'd not heard of anything to do with the Iraqi terrorists there. It seemed to be more of the rest of the world. I know they have horrible problems down there as far as the drugs and all that. A friend is coming back from going to school in Ecuador in a couple weeks. I'm curious as to how his time was there and if there was any trouble where he was.

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fight till death, brother

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That's all very well, but I find it completely unacceptable to emigrate to a country and then regard the flag of the adopted country to be rascist. It's hypocritical at best, arrogant and intolerant at worst.

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words to live by my friend... words to live by

on a side note i have blond hair and blue eyes innards i'm with ya on this one.. one last hurrah

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well that makes three of us.....

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lol party at my place, this area could use some of us :P besides cloaca you had my back, i owe ya for that one thanks.

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and four....

dumb blondes....

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If your only concept of 'individuality' is tied up with your ancestry, you don't have any. Letting your culture or ethnic background define you is a dangerous proposition, simply because you give up any other attempt to define your individuality. The loss of individuality you're talking about there is very common in racially pure states, though. And the 'swelling of the chest' expresses itself, in those cases, in ways that are much worse than what started this discussion. I, personally, don't need to know my ancestry to feel a swell of pride, I just need to have done something.

And, again, even if you read up on the culture of your ancestors, that has nothing to do with you. Seriously. If you're defined by a culture, your culture is classic mutt American. Sorry. You can't escape it and it's impossible to give it up. Even your beliefs are defined as being against what you conceive of American culture. Any attempt to move away from it is only negative contrast. No matter how much you try to immerse yourself in another culture, your character was not formed in or by it and you can't simulate that effect any more than you can change your skin tone. I don't care how much of the literature you read, music you listen to, films you watch, philosophy you argue, or if you move, learn the language, and stop speaking English; your character was formed in and by America.

Like you said, it's a choice, but your criteria for decision doesn't make any sense. You're already mixed. You couldn't fuck your way back to purity if you tried, and even if you did that would be based on an arbitrary decision as to which culture to adopt. You can't just pretend not to be what you are, but you seem to keep doing that. Like myself, and like many, you are American, and you are a mutt. Again, sorry.

By the way, don't impregnate everything in sight. For obvious reasons, though gene determination is often more complex than Punnett squares, your chances at preservation are better if you find a blonde, blue eyed lady. I'd probably have those traits if my father had done that. I don't miss them, though. My eyes are like mood rings.

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Punnett squares are cool and are correct most times but like you said, it's just a little more complex. Genes mutate and there for you have mood eyes as do I. Genetics are cool as hell I think.

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You are correct, sir.

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I fully agree. I was just giving you an example coming from a primarily christian province.
One problem with canada is that we try too hard to be multicultural. We change laws to accomadate immigrants beliefs and opinions. Generally, this is great. But in other circumstances, it's destroying canadian traditions.

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sick, four of us. yeah, punnet sqaures are decievingly primitive, and dont show the truth about mutations and such. I will probably get with either a blonde or a brunette, or a redhead, whatever, if shes cool thats fine.

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intersting ideas. i think we've both expressed ourselves to the best that we can on this topic, and youve given me some things to ponder and i hope ive done the same. i will continue my search for all things pertaining to my heritage, and encourage you to do it yourself, if youre intested. if i major in anything, itll be history, and seeing that tied to a life that was led by my ancestors makes it much more interesting than learning about,say, south america

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I already know the cultures I came from pretty well, and have visited most of them. Some impressed on me why my ancestors left; others were very interesting and worth pursuing.

History's a good major. European history is fascinating. A lot of it ended up working itself out in South America.

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yeah european history and asian history are both pretty cool.

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yeah, i find myself reading ancient books and being intersted in them, but i can imagine trying to show a friend one and having his/her eyes glaze over

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Okay, some are talking about culture and some genetics. What about someone like me that has knowledge of neither from my past ? I LOVE that classic American Mutt idea, but hell, I don't even know if I'm that ! haha Canada is right across the big pond, Erie.

Actually it's sort of cool that way though.

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well, what part of canada are you from, if youre from the french part, you could probably have some french in you, but the same could be true if you were in normal canada.

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I'm American but there's a lot of port travel across the Lake between here and Port Burwell. At least there used to be. It's just a matter of a few hours east or west by land to get to Canada.
My adoptive mother is part French Canadian though.

I could find out what I am by DNA testing but don't quite have the money for that.

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yeah, thats definitely not worth it.

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why? how much is it? i think its definitely worth it

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thousands i think, could be less.

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i take it health insurance doesnt give a rats ass

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yup, since its not vital like getting a heart transplant.

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