the third debate is set to take place tonight. tweedle-dee vs. tweedle-dum. any pre-game thoughts?

I hope kerry wins.. i saw a snippet of the last debate, bush took a slating from that kerry, haha classic..

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Same here, ...too bad I didn't register in time...oh well

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they're both idiots. good thing im not old enough to vote... o wait, it doesnt matter because i wouldnt vote anyway

How is Kerry an idiot??

Huh?? How?

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Kerry is a legend, he tells it how it is too bush. rather him than bush.

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i dont like either one, but i prefer Kerry. i was forced to watch the first debate in American History and it was funny. Kerry kept coming back to him serving in Vietnam and Bush kept repeating some dumb phrase.

WAFFLE!

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thats the one...

And you're not?

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that was mature... there was no reason at all for you to reply to that, but if the urge was that great, you could have at least given somethign a little more. disagree with his opinion, then call him a cunt. but dont just interject in a decently intelectual conversation to be a bitch.

yeh well.. he is a retard.

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Yeah, hes also a CUNT!!!
LOL!

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im pretty sure BLS was talking about you, which, in effect, means you just called yourself a cunt. congratulations, you're an idiot

i dont care enough to watch this next one

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same, but i do enjoy watching CSPAN's after coverage, because they cut out all the bullshit and just give the important stuff

yeah, *shrug*

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Wrong. Me and CC are home dawgs, ya dig?

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i stand corrected. i apologize, i am a cunt

nah, but Transient is

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Your a cunt?! Awesome

Pretty much all of the reasons why people have major doubts about kerry is because all the crap bush puts out about him, I just watched this documentation on bush and kerry's political history, and in 2002 kerry said the exact same thing as now so he didn't flip flop at all.

But I want a 3rd party, im sick of this 2 party system

Then CPUSA is the answer to all your problems!

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thats the soccer team i play on. (CPUSA)

Good for you...

Cool...

hows Communist soccer working out for ya?

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Bush and Kerry should both be decapitated with chainsaws and thrown into a fucking pit with hungry rats.

I want some guy that's gonna make the drinking age 18 and legalize weed.

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YESS!!! CAUSE THEIR IS NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT THEN GETTING DRUNK LEGALLY AT THE AGE OF 18 AND SMOKING WEED!!!!



People like you shouldnt be voting either way.

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agreed. nice use of the sarcasm

I was goofing around. Chill out.

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One day they're going to draft us all, then they're going to ban beer, and then I will accidently kill some people.

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I wish I watched. It would have taken away the torturous dread of watching ALCS game 2. It was total bullshit.

By the way, I really think this thread would have better if it were named, "The Masked Debators". Hahahaha... I kick ass.

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Not me

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The government really wouldn't be interested in me. Since I don't blindly follow the leader or accept propaganda as fact, I'd be immediately labeled "subversive". It will be like McCarty all over again.

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I'd manage to get labelled insane if drafted, and not in a way that would make me seem a better candidate for being made a killing machine. I wonder if there would still be the 'conscientious objector' option, where you serve by not serving. Though I consider the reinstitution of the draft as remote a possibility as every single sci fi movie set in the future coming true. The president can't do it and no congress would push that through and mark themselves in history's eyes as dickheads of monumental proportions, especially as even Nixon saw it should be done away with. Although a recent move to get Canada to actually extradite Americans hiding from the draft up there might make it a bit more likely, I still consider it a remote possibility.

I watched the tail end of the debate. Kerry's more aggressive than he was at first, and Bush slightly more on-topic, but still equally adept at deliberately misunderstanding and misrepresenting whatever Kerry says. I also liked how he dodged mentioning any particular minority by name when asked a question directly about them. Still, something about Kerry and the impossibility of backing up any of his claims bothers me. Not so much that I would vote for Bush over him, but so much so that I would wonder what, exactly, I was voting for as I did so. Though he's finally given me a clearer concept of it than I previously had, which is good. It's all moot, however, as I'm not registered in this state.

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You know what i found funny.

When talking about the iraq war, bush said that he would hunt down and kill the terrorists to save people's lives.
But when it came to the question of stem cell research. Bush said something along the lines of
We don't have the right to kill a life to save others.


kill to save
kill to save.


How come the media didn't notice this hypocrisy.

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.... damn good point man.

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You know the answer to that.

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the sad part is.
I do.

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True, but killing known terrorist and killing unborn babies is kinda emotional to me. I could understand stem research if it didn't involve women getting pregnant just to abort and further the project.

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Do they really have to do that? Aren't there enough abortions as is? Or did drunk college students start using condoms?

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There is a control in all research. For the right $ many places can get what they ask for. I know that much research takes place under the so called "table".

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soul, there's thousands of embroes in stasis right now.
They can either be destroyed or used. Think of fertilaty clinics. Not abortion.
Though abortion happens, and will happen. I support it actually. But if a fetus is to be aborted, then it should be used for the "greater good"
and don't bother getting into the abortion issue, because if you think a life is a life, then you're a fucking mass murderer every time you jack off into a kleenex over your sears magazine

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and the whole terrorist issue has become disgustin now.
Bush has made it that if you are a muslim, you're a fucking terrorist. He's fighting a holy war (jihad) of his own. Just listen to his fucking debates.

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yeah, bush has made the line between "War on Terror" and "War on Muslims" very fine. quite paranoid time for muslims these days

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fuck religion
I believe in god.
and jesus
(spare me the "flaming")

Jesus himself walked out of a church in protest of organized religion.
fuck that. Respect a mother fucker for his/her beliefs.
be it buddah
allah
god
slayer
atheist

if someone wants to have faith in something, at least they have faith in life.

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Word.

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I believe that is the greatest thing you have ever said here, dude.

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once and awhile sensability conquers my stupidity

but i worship beer
and you do too!

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Dont worry, if you ever need a shoulder to cry on im availible for $5 an hr.

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and every time i read this post i think it says
bush and kerry master bators
.

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tis the point, good sir.

bnhbgv


^^^THAT'S what my head looks like when mashed against a keyboard

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uhy7j

mine looks cooler!

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oh yeah!
here's my left hand:




4gtyh

my right hand:


76ug

my left foot:

Z

and my right foot:

2we54gtyujik
and my cock

klahsdflsadlfjsdal;fjsdafjsdla;jflsdjflsdjfoagiang;lkanglsadfgklsadngl;nsda


....lol
the cock one wastn real but the rest were. I can just imagin my gf coming home with me rubbin my cock on the keyboard .. lol

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Hehe, yeah I agree about the abortion bit, except some would argue that by the second trimester the pre fetus has already developed some bodily organs, but i hate people who are so adiment on pro-life because they actually did have methods of aborting pregnancies in biblical times, yet there is no metion of it anywhere, so how can they aregue that a fetus has the same status as a baby?

I'm aware of that arguement.
Just comes down to your opinion really.

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Why are republicans against abortion if theyre all for being able to carry a gun around, the death penalty, and going into poor countries and bombing the shit out of them?
Republicans are dumbasses.

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Why are Democrats for killing unborn babies if they're all about not having weasons, hunging trees, preserving life, and giving poor countries money they use to kill Americans with?
Democrats are dumbasses.

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KILL THE FUCKING BABIES!!!
Hugging* Trees. Fuck they give us OXYGEN last I checked, we need that to live.

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Well, there are not that many trees in the poor countries the repubilcans are bombing so I guess that evens things out.

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If a babies not wanted, why should it live? Theres enough people in the world..
KILL THE BABIES!

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Not all Democrats are for abortion.

I am. This world needs less people. Overpopulation is a very real thing. Drive through the country one day. Drive through once a month. Every time you go you will notice it is less and less country. Woods are constantly being mowed down because of development. I fucking hate people. Sometimes I really do. I hate that people think that it's okay to have as many children as they want because, hell, God wants them to!

By the way, nobody is for killing unborn babies because you can't kill something that isn't even alive. I suppose it all depends on how far into the pregnancy abortion is allowed. I think they should shorten it up, personally.

Maybe if so many Republicans didn't think sex was evil we wouldn't have these problems. Not all of them feel that way, but when you consider that most Republicans are Christian conservatives, obviously most do feel that way. They are keeping good sex education out of schools. They are keeping condoms away from kids. Then kids have kids. Conservative Republicans think they are doing a good job by protecting the innocent children from evil sex. Good fucking job, dipshits. Conservative Republicans don't get a chance to see the damage they do because the damage is mostly done in urban areas. Let's ask a legitimate question- how many Republican conservatives live below the poverty level? These people are so submerged in their own little worlds they have absolutely no regard for what happens to the poor or basically to anybody outside of their own little happy Christian worlds.

Ask any conservative Republicans how they feel about Iraq. What will they tell you? We "saved" Iraq. We liberated them. We gained an ally. No we didn't, dipshits. We created more terrorists. How do terrorists recruit new terrorists? Through propaganda, that's how. The same way leaders trick people into thinking a war is justified, through propaganda. Thanks to Bush, these terrorists have more propaganda than they ever needed. Every time an innocent Iraqi dies, that's propanganda for the terrorists. Every time a tale of prisoner abuse because public knowledge, that's propaganda. It's recruiting material, and thanks to Bush, they have tons of it. Thanks to that worthless piece of shit, we are creating terrorists faster than we can kill them. But the conservative Christian Republicans are so deluded in their own little world that they really think we did good.

Dubya couldn't get Bin Laden. Instead he tried to appease the American people by pretending Iraq was a threat. Unfortunately, people are easily brainwashed, and most Americans are so fucking stupid they thought Saddam actually had something to do with 9-11-01. Bush kept throwing out words like "terrorist" in order to trick the public. Why? Because by throwing out that word, he is indirectly insinuating that Saddam DID have something to do with 9-11. He never said it directly. But he knew he was tricking the American public, and he didn't bother to stop it.

In order to try to appease the smarter end of the public, who knew that Saddam had nothing to do with 9-11, he created a false threat of Iraq developing weapons of mass destruction. Where are they, dipshit? I want Bush to die a terrible death, and that's all I really have to say about the guy right now.

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good point Chris...and I highly advise you not breed.

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I don't agree with everything you believe Chris. Some say that Iraq is all about the oil too... but where is the oil? Have you seen gas prices?

Iraq isn't making terrorist as much as terrorist are just coming to Iraq to die fighting the great evil of the world, that including you. Terrorist lose people just as fast as they recruit them, due to it's members realizing that the western world isn't out to take over the world. Young terrorist recruits are the ones that are brainwashed. Most are afraid of change because they are told it means their whole system will be shot to hell and they will lose their faith.

Dubya hasn't got Bin Laden and he never will, because it will be someone like me that will find him. I have friends looking for him and his peeps right now and they can't hide forever. Those terrorist will answer for what they have done someday. Plus Iraq was a treat. Given enough time, just a few years maybe, Iraq would have attacked the US just as soon as it could have and so will Korea. Iraq was a treat to both itself and the world. Sure innocent people die during conflict. I don't care how careful you are not to kill them, you are going to kill them no matter what. If the war were within our boarders the same would apply here. It's not unreal that war could be brought within our country even in this day.


And sex is great

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man are you drunk?
What the fuck has happened to your spelling ability?

I'm not gonna bother getting into this "debate", due to the fact that i've spent hours argueing with people in real life and on the net, and what i've found is that there's no point. Both sides don't listen to each other.

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Spelling fixed. Have you seen some of the things you have typed lately?

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I would support the "right to life" if they promoted contraceptives, and actuallt attempted to fund orphanages. I would support pro choice if they didn't treat the fetus like it was nothing, and attempted to put a little more restrictions.

Sometimes this isn't because of overpopulation. I spent enough time in the Blue Ridge, Great Smoky, and whatever the hell else names they have for them, mountains in North Carolina to see a lot of the woods there being levelled, not for the houses people need because of overpopulation, but for the part-time, time-share lodges and golf courses they want, because they can. It doesn't change fucking hating people, though.



I don't think that's quite what Christ meant. The war in Iraq makes very good propaganda; so good that it comes out almost effortlessly. It's very, very easy to get people used to seeing Arab deaths in terms of a religious war after decades, particularly the most recent one, of Israel kicking the shit out of its neighboring countries to see an attack on an Arab country as an attack on Islam. 'Don't look now to Israel, it might be your homeland,' right? This happened almost immediately, and when you've got people twisting it with propaganda, it's not surprising it's effective. We're the U.S.; people pay close attention to what we do. (A good example of this is when, during the prison abuse scandal, Russia and France took leading roles in criticizing our actions without anybody batting an eye, despite Russia having to deal almost contemporaneously with a similar scandal in Chechnya, and France being one of the very few Western countries whose government authorizes and endorses the use of torture.) Our actions will be scrutinized, in and out of context, and there's almost limitless fuel for propaganda there. You're right about how they feel their world will crumble if it's changed, but it's much easier to get them afraid of that change if they're bombarded with images of us killing them, and hear how our leader called this a 'crusade,' and so on.

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i dont know if im gonna vote at all because im pretty much fed up with politics and government. but if i do im voting for kerry to vote against bush because bush is a complete moron. bush is a cunt. cunt, cunt, CUNT! there i said it loud and clear. george bush is a CUNT!!!

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No, he's a rectum that's been sodomized many, many times........

your degrading the beautiful pink spot of a woman by saying that

that sounds funny.
I like a cunt without a big bush.



and my excuse soulinsane, is that I was drunk. (Obviously, look at the damn post )

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How could Iraq have ever attacked America? What long-range weapons do that have that are capable of even reaching America? And let's pretend for a moment that Iraq actually DID have long-range weapons capable of reaching America. How many of those weapons could Iraq possibly have? Certainly not enough to wage an effective war on the US. The fact it, Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction. No evidence has been found to even insinuate that they were trying to develop weapons of mass destruction. Iraq is not a threat the the US at all, nor would they have been 5 years from now.

What does (North) Korea have to do with this argument? Why would you even bring up North Korea in an argument about Bush? Perhaps you haven't been informed that the reason North Korea withdrew from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty was because Bush did first. North Korea were rolling back their nuclear weapons programs because they had been convinced to do so by the US. A friendly US. Then some warmongering right winger takes over office and withdraws from this plan. Why would North Korea bother? From their view we could be a possible threat, and that view could be justified by Bush's aggression, coupled with his withdrawal from that plan. Going by that, it would be in North Korea's best interest to keep whatever nuclear weapons they have just in case they need them for self defense.

North Korea will NOT attack the US first. North Korea alone can't wage a successful war against the US, they know that. However, if Bush decides all of a sudden that North Korea is being aggressive (when in fact, they are being defensive, following Bush's example of withdrawing from the treaty), and like an idiot decids to attack North Korea, you can rest assured that the US will not stand a chance. Why? A little country to the west of North Korea that is known as China. Do you think for an second that China would allow North Korea, a friendly communist state to the Chinese, be leveled (I'm sure Bush would say 'liberated') by the US? No. North Korea has quite a formidable military, and while it's not enough to take out the US, what in the world would make you think that the US could take on both North Korea and China at the same time? I'm not so sure we could handle China alone. I'm 100% sure we couldn't handle China AND North Korea.

I'm still not sure why you brought up North Korea, but it doesn't really matter because Bush's hostile aggression has turned that into a bad situation that didn't exist until he took over office.

Not only has Bush done so many things wrong, he hasn't really done many things right. If you care to continue this discussion, we can, but I'll tell you right now I have so much shit on him, and unfortunately for the right-wing extremists, it's not shit I got from left-wing extremists (which seems to be the defense of any conservative right winger any time you say something bad about Bush- "You're a left wing extreme liberal! You love Michael Moore!"). I have many scientific reports to prove how awful Bush has been on the environment, and these are coming from scientists and environmental workers, not liberal extremists as I'm sure some would probably accuse me of.

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well put you bastard!

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Iraq obviously wasent a threat to anyone, they had little to none armor vehicles cause we blew the fuck out of all the soviet tanks Sadaam bought during the gulf war. We just plowed right through Iraq strait to Bagdad... man what a fuckign threat!!!

Its a waste of resources, money, and lives. Gimme ONE good reason why AMERICANS should be in Iraq... just ONE.


Only Bush could turn me into a Hippie... and I fucking despise hippies.

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Bush didn't actually care whether it was an iminent threat or not, he just wanted to cover for the things his dad did about 10 years ago and he wanted oil, yet that was a small part of it. He was still convinced that Iraq was part of the "axis of evil" and he used the 9/11 attacks as a reason to go in, since he was planning an iraq attack since the 2nd day he got in office (no joke).

I can't believe how people can be so optimistic about our president, if he's so "tough" on terror, then why did he let osama get away when he performed the REQUIRED military function of going into afghanistan, and why didn't the force we put on the taliban come anywhere near the force and military power we used on saddam's regime?

"The World is better off without Saddam", well maybe it could of been, but there are so many dictators just like him who torture thier own people, and the world is much WORSE off the way we invaded Iraq.

KILL BUSH!!!!!

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yep..

When we had Osama cornered in the Hills instead of heaving elite AMERICAN soldiers patrol and seek and destroy.. we payed some untrustoworthy warlords to do OUR fucking job... pretty surprising that they escorted Osama and his buds into Pakistan isent it??

anyone who allows that to happen shouldnt be president and should have fucking been impeached. Im still amazed at how much this guy can fuck up and not have ANY threats of impeachment. We all know he did win the election anyways...

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i don't care if the guys a fucking saint.
anyone who can't pronounce "nuclear" shouldn't be a president.
I mean it's not even one of those "hard" words like spaghetti or aluminum.
I want the motherfucker to get an iq test first. and i'm not even american.
(but i'm duel cit. so i've got the right to bitch )

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If he gets impeached, Dick Cheney will be in office, and things will be just as bad. The only hope is to overthrow the whole administration, since Bush obviously is going to make an attempt to do the same thing as last time in some winning state.....oh well if we go through a third world war or have a really bad time in american history, it will eventually END.

i'm just glad i'm not american.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again, the american population must overthrow the govt. We have the right to because it's in the fucking Declaration, and if we did, we should ban the 2 party system and envoke just one. It should be called The Liberal Republican. Do you know why he's going to win Texas? Because of the electoral college. Historically, the electoral college was conveined for the sole reason that they didn't trust American voters. Nice try at democracy guys. Even if the majority of Texas votes against Bush, Bush still would win Texas. Is that not fair or what?!?!?!

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ban the 2 party and have only 1?

I don't get you . Do you mean like a dictatorship?

Hell i say make 20 fucking parties. give everyone a choice!

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No no no, not like a dictatorship....well yes. I don't understand how 20 parties would work. There's only 2 sides that I can see, "for" and "against."

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Do you really trust American voters? You talk about how Texas will have Bush forced on them, but do you really think the majority will vote against him anyway? He's going to win Texas because it's Texas and will not suddenly stop voting like Texas because you think it should. Blaming the system rather than the people is easy, but sometimes the people are at fault. I certainly don't trust American voters; there are way, way, way too many who will vote as a personal response to a specific, often largely irrelevant issue, or because they feel one candidate reminds them more of themselves.

Now, there are definitely faults with the electoral college, and they're pretty obvious lately since last election showed them fairly clearly, but quit railing against it just because you live in a state that will vote for Bush, just like New York will invariably vote for even the most blatantly flawed Democrat. It's a flawed system, but it's not going to do anything to you until you move to a swing state. Besides, if you understand much about federation, it makes much more sense. It's not like we've got the 18th Century British Rotten Boroughs system.


Firstly: The Declaration of Independence doesn't allow us any rights. It's not a government document in that sense, and it's certainly very dated at this point.

Secondly: Even if it did allow us the right, it doesn't supply us with the means. At the time that was written, there was little to no plan as to how to have a government, and when one did first appear, the confederated government had no army or real power. Even when the Federal government got an army, it was an army that could probably be matched by any really dedicated and persuasive individual. It was musket against musket. Compare that to the modern state and the discrepancy between what the military has and what kind of guns the people are allowed to have. It wouldn't work. Plus, though many are disatisfied with Bush, I don't think they want to throw away the whole 'Constitution' thing.

Thirdly: You complain about the limitations of the electoral college and then say we should have just one party to choose from? Crazy talk. Not only would it be effectively impossible, and not only is it ridiculously Utopian to beleive everybody would just become centrist when they'd overthrown the government, but putting one party in power is historically disastrous. It would be worse than what we'd fought against. I'm personally glad you're not in politics.


He has to have broken a law, and somebody has to have the balls to stand up and accuse him of it - which would of course be traitorous and Unamerican, since it's treasonous to criticize the government or its leader when there's a war on, apparently - and then the majority of the House would have to have the balls to convict him. None of this is likely in the current political atmosphere, and that atmosphere isn't likely to change unless we find something so blatant it's impossible to ignore. Considering what he's gotten away with so far, I doubt that's possible. Plus, it would just put Cheney in direct power.

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but it's not about black and white
different parties. diffenent ideals

You may be against abortion
but for stem cell research

against war
and against abortion

see what i'm getting at

more parties give us more options
have a green, black and neon pink party for all i care.
just give people more options than
evil,


lesser of evil

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kofi annan has stated that what bush has done is technically illegal
(the war)

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Definitely. Seeing politics only in terms of 'for' and 'against' the current government is making a very, very simplistic picture out of a complex one. That's what a two-party system does. A one party system does the same, just more disastrously. A system in which more than two parties somehow manage to become feasible, which happens, it only means more options for dealing with the various issues voters care about. Ideally.

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Explain to me, "federation." And thanks for bringing those points to my attention. Obviously I was never good at politics....

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True, but, so long as we can deny International opinion if it conflicts with domestic opinion, that won't count.


I'm not a history teacher, and right now I'm a bit burnt out on having to think about and explain things (through no fault of your own), so no. If you're interested, they still publish all the papers of the Federalists and Anti-federalists, so you can see the debate at the time this was decided. However, what I meant there was that there has to be some kind of balancing out of pure democracy in order to allow the balance between states, which was one of the major stumbling blocks in creating a country once we'd fought off the British, and things like the bicameral legislature and the electoral college were means to provide this balance.

Anyway, it's a state by state basis as to whether or not the electoral college is required to reflect the popular vote. The fact that a large number of states chose to put no constraints on the electoral college puts the states, and not the system, to blame.

They definitely distrusted the electorate, but you just have to study it to realize there are reasons to distrust our electorate. Or any. Think of the number of people who only vote on one issue. Think of the people who start voting because MTV and Comedy Central tell them to. Think of the Danes who wrote-in Donald Duck so much that he won a national election. And, finally, again, don't blame a system for your own electorate; Texas is unlikely to be screwed by the electoral college.

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Im telling ya guys..

Communism is the only answer.

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CPUSA! YEAH!

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