Who watched it? What did you think? What do you think the next one will be like?

My english teacher assigned us to write a brief paper one what we thought about the debate, ect. So instead of typing something up I'll just post the very rough draft.

Lucky are we to be able to become intoxicated with this intense and provocatively commoving policital debate between the two people that may end leading our nation for another four years. I watched this event with a mind set on analyzing facts with a nonbias filter that I hope will help me in determining the right and most logical conclusions. The impromtu scenerio of hasty two minute responses that must have seemed like ages between the two canidates I surmise that Senator Kerry did a more competent job in securing the faith of the people, attacking the most imporatant issues at hand, properly and precisley pointing out Bush's faults from his presidential term, and in his way of persuation. But it is without a doubt a necessity to realize the fact that these things as of now are only spoken by this man and he needs now to somehow install faith that he can live up to his promises. It is also an issue at hand to become aware that Kerry was incontrovertibly on the offense while Bush was on the defense. This is due to Bush having fabricated an attackable past that can be used to judge him on and on the future he asseverately promises us. Kerry has a queue of bad choices made by Bush to attack him on and to catch Bush off gaurd and make him appear inadequte to our country. On Kerry's thoughts that appeale to my political palate include his views on homeland security (which I imagine will be rediculed as being "to broad". But we must keep in mind that both canidates only had a brief two minutes to anwser a question which clearly isn't enough time to fully elaborate on his plain which I hope he does indeed have), his ablility to pinpoint Bush's faults in this war, and his plans for us in the future. Kerry's faults where pointed out by Bush on his uncertainty in the past which is a bit damning. His vote against the 87 billion dollar fund for the troops also stunned me since he was prosecuting Bush on not aiding the troops enough.

As for Bush, I will elaborate on this faults and effectiveness. I did like how Bush was able to point out that Kerry was in a suttle way admiting to siding with ad populum when considering attacks and was impressed by this as for I over looked it. He also stated in his closing speech that he wasn't for a draft which relieved me abit as for I am soon to be 18. But unfortunatly that is all I could find that pleases me enough to mention. Bush seemed insecure in alot of his retaliations and was unable to comment on much of the accusations brought forth into light by Kerry unless asked directly about by the questioner. He seemed to so whore the term "wrong place, wrong war, wrong time" that it became almost cliche and meaningless to me and I soon became desensitized to it. Bush too often made remarks about "inaccuracy" and "mixed emotions" that would pest the American body and benefit our enemys in this war, yet he too has sent many mixed emotions and an admitted inaccuracy in the war that he claimed to be "miscalculations". The war on terrorism was at first targeted at the Al Quida forces and Osama based in Afghanistan. But soon after failed attempts to thwart and wither their power he shited to Iraq and their weapons of mass destruction that he so diligently insisted that they had, even though the 9/11 commsion said where nonexistent. Soon after his seek for those hiding weapons failed, he then went after Sadam which leads us into the present day problems and opalescently blurred promises of the future. And towards the end he commented about his views about how one shouldn't change views or values. But if the situation calls for it, somethings must be changed. We don't need a closed minded president.

These are my insignificant views on the debates and the persuation that I have felt only so far. There is to be one more debate session sometime in the future and untill then I cannot have a fully developed opinion on this dillema. But at that debate like this one, I will keep a complete nonbias state of mind to allow me to filter out the truth from the false and to hopefully guide my logical reasoning to the right choice. With this myriad of facts, promises, and political babble that is being spun out I hope whomever is elected, for the sake of our country, is the right choice and will lead us into a peaceful equilibrium that we can be proud to call our own.

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I didn't get to see it, but I was wondering if Kerry still looked like Orange Man?

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So whats this with Orange Man?

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Some of Kerry's PR dudes thought it would be good if he got a tan about a week ago so that he didn't look like a corpes next to Bush. Problem is that it's a fake tan and it turned him into Orange Man.

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I didn't get to see it either, but I think it is rediculios for Kerry to worry about supporting gay rights. That isn't something that is going to help out the country a great deal, we have "bigger fish to fry" right now, yet at the same time they should be able to do what they want. I don't think either canidate is worthy of being president, just like the last election. As far as people making their dicisions on what the guys look like, who gives a rats ass? As long as they do good for the country, they can look like a retard and I could care less. I read in your report that Bush was against the draft, I thought he used to be for it and I thought Kerry was against it. Anyways since I will be 18 in basically a year I find this pleasing. The MAIN reason is because I think it is wrong to MAKE people such as myself go fight for this country seeing as how we will not be able to have any vote in this election. Basically our elders our deciding our future. I say we get Clinton back

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LOLZ OMG SUINSAEN LIEKS BUSH!!!111 WTF LOL HE MUST B GAY!1!!11 OMG WTF LOL

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No Kerry is supporting the gay thing, not Bush. I like Bush... get it... Bush!!!!!! Buahahahhhahhaa

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"I believe you forgot Poland."

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I think you need glasses

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Republicans are crazy religious people.

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I have them.

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Well use them this was what I said "I didn't get to see it either, but I think it is rediculios for Kerry to worry about supporting gay rights." which means I understand that Kerry is the one supporting gay rights.

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lolololololololololololololol

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K.... I know what you posted... and what about Poland Myownsavior?

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One thing I noticed about the debate is that Bush really stalled when they asked him questions. He picked up after a few seconds though. I just feel as though Kerry did much better.

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I was watching the Daily Show when I posted that. It was something Bush said. I think it was a stalled response like CC mentioned.

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Bush kept emphasizing Polish involvement in the war on Iraq when Kerry intimated that we'd attacked with very few allies. They did not discuss gay rights, as it was mostly about foreign policy. Kerry was no longer orange.

Both candidates spent a lot of time repeating a few key phrases - Bush more than Kerry, and as more of a nonsequitor. I kept yelling at the screen whenever either of them took the opportunity to say something that had nothing to do with the question asked, or much else - the most glaring example is of course Bush's repeated statement that 'A man who says it's the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong can't be commander in chief,' though Kerry kept telling us how a 'fresh start, a new credibility' that he will presumably bring to the presidency will solve all our problems. In the end, Kerry came out more articulate but didn't show us anything to back up his claims, and Bush came off like Bush; he made faces during Kerry's turn, smiled as he talked about 'whippin' the Iraqis, and brought up quotations from Kerry at inappropriate moments and well after they had been explained satisfactorily. That is, he got by on charm. They both kept slipping into indirect ad hominem attacks that the love-fest after the 'character' question did nothing to dissipate or dilute. It was frustrating to watch sober, but would have made an excellent drinking game.

High point: Bush trying to say 'vociferously.'

Oh, and no worries Riggs: Bush said the military would be strictly voluntary, so no one will be forcing you to go fight anywhere. Little known fact, for some reason: Republicans took out the draft. It doesn't make sense, but it's the truth.

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Wow, I hope this is the first intelligent responce. In light of your notion that Kerry brought confidence, I whole heartedly agree. I'm a hardcore republican, and I was very blow away by his non condencending manner in which he presented himself. Though, on the other hand I thought Bush did an amazing job also. I was never really into politics before about a year ago, so I started watching this debate waiting for the "bushlexia" to come in. Other than a few "mexed missages" I thought that he did pretty well. Though I have to disagree with Kerrys standpoint on Sudan. He stated that we should not just be sending humanitarian aide to end the suffering of the people, but rather send military aide to help speed of the process of the African Unions intervention. I seriously doubt that this will work for two reasons. In more simple terms hes saying that we should send out more of our obviously overstreached military forces to help aide a country with absolutly no politcal stance at all. The second is that, if the African Union is waiting for western influence to act, then is there really a matter that is worth spending hardworking American's tax dollars on? Let us not forget the (20?) million dollars in humanitarian aide we are already sending over there. But then again from a more humanitarian standpoint, 1.5 million people are dying and or being killed. In light of the military issue, I strongly agreed with Kerry that we need to create another branch of the military just for these terrorist/insertion type offences, and we need to get rid of the current bunker buster nuke programs. How did you feel about what he said about North Korea darko?

OH YEAH BUSH STOP FUCKING BLINKING IN YOUR FUCKING CLOSING STATEMENT YOU CUNT

Im more looking forward to the homeland debate on the 13th

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BWAAhahaha, I noticed that too.
I didn't watch all of it but the last 10 minutes. I was drunk at the time, so I can't really remember any actual "quotes" by the guys in suits so I'm going to say I agree with Mr. Credit. A draft wouldn't matter to me because I'm a student and students don't get drafted.
Hey Darko, that was a good paper. I'd like to say I could do one that good but wow.

"But soon after failed attempts to thwart and wither their power he shited to Iraq and their weapons of mass destruction that he so diligently insisted that they had, even though the 9/11 commsion said where nonexistent."

heh, I'd fix the "shited to Iraq" before the teacher sees it, hahaha.

BTW...

rediculios = ridiculous

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A good polemic. However, you're being too even-handed. I did not watch this debate, naturally, but somehow I don't think that disqualifies me from helping. Try this:

"...When this farrago of lies and political drivel was over, I repeatedly beat my head against the kitchen table until I drew blood. Lying on the marble, with blood gently congealing against my shattered forehead, I reflected on the sorry state of this country and on the nature of truth itself.

In post-modernism, the idea of truth becomes fluid and irrelevant. This can be seen as a reflection on the conduct of public figures and the pervasive development of the media-centric world. Truth becomes nothing more than the most recent association or the most recent assemblage of words. Words start to divulge from meaning, and we are left with communicative methods that are in essence futile.

This is the malaise that lies at the bottom of modern culture, which stems from this lack of meaning. Without a basis of meaning we cannot form understanding, and without understanding we are groundless consciousness searching for a point of reference that does not exist. Politics is the best example of this. Political debate fills me with a wave of fury, as words are crafted and spun rather than spoken, as associations are created and context is delivered, and everything is so controlled.

That was what frustrated me, the futility of the entire NutraSweet spectacle. This was why I lay bleeding on the bench waiting for Spongebob to come on, so I could get those pinstriped goons out of my head and fill it with something equally meaningless but far more entertaining.

Postmodernity is enough trouble without odious bovine morons like President Bush and transparent hypocritical fucktards like Senator Kerry."

Give that to your teacher. She deserves it.

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Great words from Sane.

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That's how the draft used to be, but when Bush was supporting bringing back the draft he said it didn't matter if you were in College, that you would be allowed to finish the semester you were in and then you would have to go fight anyways, pretty ghey eh?

-Of course obviouisly by the debate last night you can tell George Bush doesn't know where he stands I still stick beside my theory of giving them both guns and locking them in a room, and the last one alive gets to become president.

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I thought Kerry slaughtered Bush in that debate, then again he used to be a prosecuting lawyer.

There was a cartoon in my local newspaper which had one of Kerry's PR's saying that John Kerry practiced his debate to a turnip.

You could tell Bush felt defeated by his remarks and expressions.

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I don't think the draft will ever be used again unless the country was being invaded. There are lots of poeple ready to join if needed so there should be no worries about the draft. It's a dumb ideal anyway and I can speak for many other members of the military in saying that I don't want anyone that is drafted into the military fighting or working next to me. They don't want to be there so that makes them a danger to everyone else because they are not as commited when things get scary. Bush has kept the military busy the last few years but he has also taken very good care of military members and their families. Life would just go to shit for the military if Kerry takes office, I think.

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Life would go to shit for the military if Kerry was in office? Are you fucking retarded man? I'm sure they would much rather guard America than fight in some unjust war.

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It's just. Lets fight it out somewhere else so the US citizen don't have to worry as much. I think its a great ideal to take the war to the enemy because it takes away their ability to build up and organize a force. Keeps them fighting there and not here.

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According to CNN, Kerry was the winner in the eyes of swing voters. Thats good.

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Then my life is about to go strait to hell, but I still think Bush could very well win though.

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Going straight to hell? Fuck, if Bush gets reelected then the USA is going farther into hell than if Kerry wins.

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Why do you think so?

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Well, Environmentely, very far into hell. Besides that, Bush is an idiot and I bet he'll do something else stupid that'll fuck us up.

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I don't think he could do anything right at this point because poeple will just pick anything he does or doesn't do to death. He has had a hard term in office having to deal with all the shit going down with terrorism the last few years.

Yea, he does seem like an dumb hick but I think it keeps him simple and to the point. Beside, you don't have to be smart to be the president, just likable and Bush after all is funny. There are many poeple running things behind what the media and the pudlic sees that make bigger impacts on the US.

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Unfortunately true. Neither Bush nor Kerry strike me as possessing the heartfelt inspiration needed to run a country successfully. Bush is comparable to an amoeba (at the risk of offending amoebas the world over) and as for Kerry, well, what did he do other than fight in Vietnam?

However, I think my stance is changing due to the surprising logic of an annoying, buck-toothed antipodean bint... Better the Devil you know.

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Bush is a moron, and thats my opinion. Debate that if you must, but the man is more worried about a dictator who had no intention of doing anything to the US, than the people in this country. The intel was bullshit, and I think the war in Iraq is a waste of good american lives, and american money. 87 billion could easily be used to better this country.

Kerry, I have little opinion on, but my motto is:

Anyone But Bush 2004.

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Agreed. Any one but Bush 2004.

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I agree.

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Are you planning on voting illegally, Behemoth? I bet you could do it if you got onto a liberal campus and only had a few forged documents.

John: Kerry fought in Vietnam, then came back and fought against Vietnam, then aged, bought a suit and a red tie, and ran for president. Something else may have happened in the middle bit; something having to do with cooking breakfast foods, I believe.

Anyway, what I'm interested in is this: Soulinsane, why do you think life would go to shit if Kerry took over? I'll admit to not paying as close attention to the goings-on in the military as actual members and veterans, but I remember reading about Bush cutting combat pay and pensions. Also, I don't see why somebody who came back from one of the most uncelebrated, unrewarded, 'I didn't even get a parade' wars in the country's history would make things so much worse when it comes to taking care of members of the military and their families. But, again, I'm not really keeping my eye on this issue, so if there's something I missed that indicates otherwise - and I'm away of everything Bush and Kerry said about each other last night - let me know and I'll adjust my thinking accordingly.

Also, as to your reasoning of why a pre-emptive strike would be just: true, but that doesn't necessarily apply to this war.

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The American people have the right to abolish the governemt if it takes away their Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness. Why the FUCk aren't we acting yet?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! The next President in any case should run the White House for free to pay off the mistakes and decisions made in the past. Hell, I'd fucking run the government for free!!! I've always admired the idea to work only for housing, food, and supplies. Not like a bum I mean, but damn, if I worked a high paying job I'd do it for free, and in return recieve housing, benifits, and food.

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But then you couldn't buy things like guitars. That would suck.

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blablablablabla( i didn't bother reading the thread), bottom line:
vote kerry

check this out:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5993610/

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Vote Kerry, or Atif here will be sent back to the Middle east.

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True dat foo!

Fucking conservatives.. fuck em'

Bush has yet to make ONE good decision.. hes just a fuckign rich kid who was able to cheat his way into presidency. I myself will NOT be voting for either because either way all our votes are a complete waste as long as the Electoral College is in place.

Im voting CPUSA, rather communism than bush.

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Agreed. And soul, life would not turn to shit if he got elected. You acted like every right wing fuck will be burned at the stake...




Not that that would be such a bad thing.

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I have a good felling (and it is a good feeling) that if Re-elected, Bush will be assasinated.

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You know, with that stupid fucking Patriot act, you can be arrested for even joking about that kind of stuff.

Its the fucking soviet union under Stalin, is what it is...

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Damn, this patriot act thing is gay.

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Please dont compare Bust to a tactical genius such as Mr. Stalin

The Soviet Union did wonders for Russia.

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Bwahaha.

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don't listen he's a commie. he said he's gonna vote for the communist party in the elections

plus he doesn't like meshuggah

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Communism CAN work...

I KNOW IT CAN IF I BELIVE!

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Don't like Meshuggah?!!?! Have you heard their 23 minute EP "I?" 1 song. Amazing, from start to finish.

You sir, are Commie-Jew. Good Day.

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hahaha! a Commie-jew!

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No, ive heard a few songs.. all the same nu-metalish type sounding shit. Gets repetitive. OF COURSE ITS MY OPINION OMG!!!

And neither my mother or father are jewish.

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then how are you so jewish?

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dunno..

ask Dissection hes the one with the brains around here...

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Meshuggah is good but they do get pretty repetative.

haha, everyone should vote for a write in candidate. And that write in candidate should be Chuck Schuldiner

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I could have been Jewish....yet I'd have to take into account the demons I talk to. My mother's mom was a Jew, so therefore she could have been Jew hence my ability to become a Jew. Instead my family became Methodist hence my non-belief. BTW, only the women can pass the Jewish heritage.

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I'm like mostly german or something, so im the opposite of a jew.

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or worse.......*nervous laugh*

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Atif... i saw you at toys r us the other day!!

BTW is flight simulater any good??

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It's not so much Kerry himself as it is his party. Bush hasn't cut any of my pay and in fact he has raised my base, combat, and special pay 6 times in the last 4 years, plus my family has better benefits too. Before that the military hadn't been given a raise since the early 90's when the other Bush was in office. I just don't get a good feeling about Kerry when it comes to his military decissions. He never gives a answer that I trust and seems more a puppet than Bush. I know Bush is a dumb fuck but I think he means what he says and believes in his heart about what is know to him. Basically, he hasn't pussed out on me even though he wasn't right about everything, but still keeps going on with what he said would be done. He has allowed me to do my job and has given me what I need to do it. I fear Kerry will just forget all about the military once in office.

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No, but I do care about who is President.

Hmm, I should become an American!

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We should elect Dimebag. That would kick ass.
\m/

Indeed it would. NO!, Chuck should be!

and Cooler new name man

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Whats up with ur signature?

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Ah.. I was hoping this thread would get abit more intellectual. Oh well. To help decide your stance just take a look at Atif's link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5993610/

Whos trying to make this a country with freedom and whos not?

By the way Sane, your revised version of my paper was great. Too bad I already turned it in!

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hard one. it seems like this thread has a low IQ compared to others. heh.

but anyway, I don't have any clue about who's the best president, Kerry seems the better party, but I guess I have some prejudice, I don't like Bush much, he just seemed like a retard to me all the time, I'm sorry to say it.

if it makes you feel better, our prime-minister looks like harry fucking potter.

at least we have a queen too

One time when I was at the beach in New Jersey, this kid asked me for an autograph because he thought I was Harry Potter.

My stance is probably "for the common man." So I guess I'm a Republican? But I don't like Bush, and if Kerry takes office, it seems he has the better economy plan. If I voted I'd vote Kerry...except I don't like his social security plan, but I'd still vote for him. As for the gay thing...if he's in office and there's still a shit load of gay....hell more women for me.

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Communism is great on paper but it can never work for two reasons... human greed and hunger for power. Communism is flawed beyond belief and is no more than an unattainable ideal.

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I think with communism there is no antagonism so
there wouldn't be any progression(or if there was
it would be done very slowly).
Also noone gets what he deserves in communism.
As for human greed and hunger for power that's
in man's genes(survival of the strongest,I think
the main reason why communism can't work is because
it's against man's nature)
Well that's my opinion about communism.

Marx presupposed a radical transformation of consciousness, then defended it by saying 'Nyah nyah! You're still stuck in the wrong point of history, so you can't criticize!' Which is, admittedly, a good defense if people buy it. I expect it would work on Seventh Day Adventists and people who'd read too much Hegel and Feuerbach.

Soulinsane: Kerry's entire reputation's based in the military, and he's going to be like any other president and have an eye on re-election. Even if the military's not high on his agenda, it's obviously an important issue to voters, so I doubt he'll publicly back down from his promises on the issue. I realized that Bush had raised pay, but I remember reading that he had more recently reduced, or attempted to reduce, combat pay and benefits to families. I guess you're a more reliable source than the papers though (I say this without a hint of the sarcasm that seems so obvious in it). Anyway, it's interesting getting your opinion on these things, since everyone else I've known in the military has been out for a while now.

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Incidently, my buddy has been discharged. , he never made it passed training.

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The ideals of communism are just as much myth as are world peace and an end to world hunger. In other words, it will never happen. And no, I'm not referring to communism like that we've already seen in USSR, China, Cambodia, Vietnam, Afghanistan, North Korea, Cuba, etc... Those governments don't even come close to representing the communist ideals. I love the way the communist ideals sound, but I also like the idea of world peace and an end to world hunger, and none of those things will ever, ever happen. Our 'democracy', as blatantly flawed as it may be (and is), is the closest thing to perfection we will ever find, so I can't complain much.

By the way, good job in the debate, Kerry. He's forcing the American public to realize how stupid and flawed Bush's plans are, despite how hard most Americans are trying to ignore it.

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We were never a democracy.

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We were never intended to be one.

All those governments Chris mentioned tried to force Marxism on people and found themselves in a dictatorship. Marx would say - watch now as I put my higher education to good use - that this is because they ignored the necessary progression of the dialectic - note that Russia skipped over the capitalist phase and tried to make it up afterward with the Five Year Plans - rather than sowing the seeds that would sprout the consciousness that man is a social being and therefore has to see society and nature as extensions of his own person, and that he has an intrinsic need to be involved with the product with his labor. Ignoring the necessary progression of the dialectic is for proles and mongoloids who can't see out of their own time period into the glorious future. I, on the other hand, find Marx dry and somewhat nonsensical, and don't even much like the ideal he was working towards.

To give a serious opinion on the debate: Bush didn't say anything, except that he was absolutely certain he would win. Aside from that, all he seemed to do was paraphrase things Kerry had said on the record and explained as though they were some kind of new information he was revealing for us. Of course, Bush didn't really have to say anything, as we already know what he'd be like as President; the burden was on Kerry to show why he should be President. And, finally and between reminders that he fought in Vietnam, he did. He outlined an intelligent plan for involving America in the world without charging into it like a skinhead in a moshpit, which was, in my opinion, the strongest part of what he said. He also made a lot of unverifiable claims - my favorite was 'I will hunt down and kill the terrorist leaders' because it evoked images of an elder Kerry in combat fatigues creeping around mountainous areas like Solid Snake, coming upon Bin Ladin, who would immediately have a flashing exclamation mark blink on over his head, and shooting him - but, again, that was his role. To be perfectly honest, Bush argued like someone with no respect whatsoever for his opponent - he even made faces while Kerry was speaking - and suffered for it, as the polls - which aren't exactly reliable - show that Kerry's closed the gap between them by appealing to the undecided voters. Bush didn't do anything to persuade people who were undecided, though I expect he will in the next few debates, because not to do so would be politically unsavvy, and though he may not be the smartest person you've seen on Fox, he's smarter, politically, than your av-e-rage politician.

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Then why the hell do people still say that we are a democracy here?!?!

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Because we're a democratic republic, and we have actual democracies in the smaller circles of our federated government. For example, town meetings. Also, in theory everyone except blacks in Florida has a vote, which is democratic. We were just smart enough to realize that an actual democracy would suck and that, again in theory, electing competent people to run the government would be better than leaving it up to the general populace of idiots. Unfortunately, the idiots got into the government and reality bent over another political theory.

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Just as long as they don't keep butt-fucking the constitution and Declaration of Independence. That's very annoying.

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again, i refuse to accept that you are a newbie. u live in FLorida? where at

I don't live in Florida. I was just commenting on how blacks in Florida were disenfranchised - ostensibly because they were criminals, as all blacks must be - in the last election, providing those of us who never had a chance to live through them with a nice reminder of Antebellum times.

The Declaration of Independence isn't actually an official policy document, but the Constitution is a beautiful thing of which I'm a huge fan.

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Kerry, I'm sure, would do a good job. I'm just alittle concerned about change in this very delicate time. It can be dangerous to moral to change leadership during conflict. Bush may have tried to cut my pay but I have only seen raises myself. I will try to give you my outlook on things but I'm far from knowing everything about politics. I do know that I'm up to my eye balls at work with changing the way the Navy operates in todays warfare. The enemy is far harder to nuke today because they hide like roaches around innocent poeple.

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That's why your opinion's interesting, since I never really encounter people in the military. I'm not sure that morale will slip if there's a change in leadership, but the simple fact that you, and presumably the people around you, are worried about it means there's probably something there.

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im not in the military, so i wouldnt call my opinion valid, but i have friends in the marines and im a fairly intellectual person, not to mention my interest in the military. anywho, heres me 2 cents

i would judge that a change in leadership would indeed hurt morale. for a more accessible example, last year in world history, our teacher got hurt half way through the year and we had a replacement. he was a great guy and a good teacher, but most of the people in the class pretty much lost the will to learn. however, on the other hand, i would imagine that if people dont like their leader morale would actually rise after a change. hopefully most can see the logic in that. one thing that Kerry could do to botch everything is to try and change how things operate. if the soldiers have gotten used to Bush's way of working things and Kerry comes in and mixes it all up, it may hurt not only the morale, but the efficiency. from a military standpoint (which i am not qualified to give) i would say sticking with Bush would be better. from a more domestic standpoint, Kerry does seem like he would help the US.

Well said. Not only would Bush be gone but the Sec of Defence and the Secs of all the different force branches would be gone too. When in the heat of things it can be difficult to change by the directions of someone that doesn't know you.

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Allegedly, several pencils were also sharpened in that period. The occasional game of golf. And probably the occasional congressional blowjob.

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..................Lets know all the facts before we jump on the "BUSH IS THE DEVIL" circle jerk band wagon. Kerry said that he wants to go into Sudan, a country that has no ties to attacks on Americans, nor has ever attacked American soil, to spend 27 billion dollars to end genocide. Hmmm sounds like, no, could'nt be. Thats not that a few militants havent made a few attacks. Personally I think 114 billion dollars could better go to cancer research or another more worthy cause, but lets not OMGASH I HAVE AN OPINION BECAUSE I SAW FAHRENHEIT. Michael Moore is a brilliant film making fat piece of shit. But he stresses the wrong points. Go watch this movie and answer me this question, Have people forgotten what the military is for? It isnt a lets go train to kill people then sit around for 30 years with our thumbs up our ass's and collect benefits. YOU ARE SIGNING A CONTRACT TO DIE FOR YOUR COUNTRY. That little itty bitty paper you sign claiming that you understand the risk of personal harm and possible death isnt just a little obsticle standing in your way from seeing the world. It means that you run the strong risk of dying if a major conflict is to break out. The biggest irony in society in my eyes is only ones who arent free in this country are the ones who fight to defend it.

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So true.

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Perhaps that's why the word read 'democracy' in my post.

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