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  #1  
Old 2005-05-22, 00:55
KevC KevC is offline
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666 or 616?

supposedly 666 is not the number of the beast

Chris Wattie of The National Post has issued the following report:

Satanists, apocalypse watchers and heavy metal guitarists may have to adjust their demonic numerology after a recently deciphered ancient biblical text revealed that 666 is not the fabled Number of the Beast after all.

A fragment from the oldest surviving copy of the New Testament, dating to the Third century, gives the more mundane 616 as the mark of the Antichrist.

Ellen Aitken, a professor of early Christian history at McGill University, said the discovery appears to spell the end of 666 as the devil's prime number.

"This is a very nice piece to find," Dr. Aitken said. "Scholars have argued for a long time over this, and it now seems that 616 was the original number of the beast."

The tiny fragment of 1,500-year-old papyrus is written in Greek, the original language of the New Testament, and contains a key passage from the Book of Revelation.

Where more conventional versions of the Bible give 666 as the "number of the beast," or the sign of the anti-Christ whose coming is predicted in the book's apocalyptic verses, the older version uses the Greek letters signifying 616.

"This is very early confirmation of that number, earlier than any other text we've found of that passage," Dr. Aitken said. "It's probably about 100 years before any other version."

The fragment was part of a hoard of previously illegible manuscripts discovered in an ancient garbage dump outside the Egyptian city of Oxyrhynchus. Although the papyrus was first excavated in 1895, it was badly discoloured and damaged. Classics scholars at Oxford University were only recently able to read it using new advanced imaging techniques.

Elijah Dann, a professor of philosophy and religion at the University of Toronto, said the new number is unlikely to make a dent in the popularity of 666.

"Otherwise, a lot of sermons would have to be changed and a lot of movies rewritten," he said with a laugh. "There's always someone with an active imagination who can put another interpretation on it.

"It just shows you that when you study something as cryptic and mystic as the Book of Revelation there's an almost unlimited number of interpretations."

The book is thought to have been written by the disciple John and according to the King James Bible, the traditional translation of the passage reads: "Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

But Dr. Aitken said that translation was drawn from much later versions of the New Testament than the fragment found in Oxyrhynchus. "When we're talking about the early biblical texts, we're always talking about copies and they are copies made, at best, 150 to 200 years after [the original] was written," she said.

"They can have mistakes in the copying, changes for political or theological reasons ... it's like a detective story piecing it all together."

Dr. Aitken said, however, that scholars now believe the number in question has very little to do the devil. It was actually a complicated numerical riddle in Greek, meant to represent someone's name, she said.

"It's a number puzzle -- the majority opinion seems to be that it refers to [the Roman emperor] Nero."

Revelation was actually a thinly disguised political tract, with the names of those being criticized changed to numbers to protect the authors and early Christians from reprisals. "It's a very political document," Dr. Aitken said. "It's a critique of the politics and society of the Roman empire, but it's written in coded language and riddles."

found it off www.bravewords.com
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  #2  
Old 2005-05-22, 03:16
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hahaha, stupid christians
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  #3  
Old 2005-05-22, 05:43
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This is getting old news.
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  #4  
Old 2005-05-22, 05:52
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Maybe it's 919 or 999 and it was written upsidedown.

My favorite mark of the beast is USDA Prime and that's the only one I care about at the moment.
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  #5  
Old 2005-05-22, 06:53
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My favourite mark was Gary Moorcroft's screamer against the Western Bulldogs back in 2001. Shame though, he was never the same player after that mark....
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  #6  
Old 2005-05-22, 09:59
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anybody see a slight resemblance between 616 and BENEDICT THE 16th. Just a little too perfect for the new pope eh? my opinion: its bullshit, just like christianity. =D
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  #7  
Old 2005-05-22, 10:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bleeding
anybody see a slight resemblance between 616 and BENEDICT THE 16th.


Nope. How are you accounting for the first 6?
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  #8  
Old 2005-05-22, 10:10
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here here
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  #9  
Old 2005-05-22, 10:14
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this news has been around for a bit, but it wont change shit everyone will still belive its 666. because maidens NEVER wrong
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  #10  
Old 2005-05-22, 10:35
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Exactly, Iron Maiden > Christain scholars
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  #11  
Old 2005-05-22, 13:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar_demon
this news has been around for a bit, but it wont change shit everyone will still belive its 666. because maidens NEVER wrong


The man speaks the truth
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  #12  
Old 2005-05-22, 14:36
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well does this change anything? is this going to revolutionize my life?


maybe they missed the part that said "add 50"
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Old 2005-05-22, 14:39
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I bet slipknot feel pretty stupid now....
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  #14  
Old 2005-05-22, 14:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar_demon
this news has been around for a bit, but it wont change shit everyone will still belive its 666. because maidens NEVER wrong


Fucking A right!!!
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  #15  
Old 2005-05-22, 16:15
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I bet slipknot feel pretty stupid now....

hahaha
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  #16  
Old 2005-05-22, 16:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevC
"It just shows you that when you study something as cryptic and mystic as the Book of Revelation there's an almost unlimited number of interpretations."



This is the most important quote of the article.

In my opinion, the heirarchy of American christianity, when speaking of Revelation is completely without knowledge. Protestants borrowed the single-mindedness of Catholicism whilst denouncing the actual rituals and practice of the Roman Church at the time of Martin Luther/John Calvin. However they simply exchanged one orthodoxy for another no better, they are still restricted to essentially the same mode of thinking : Literal Interpretation of marred and hackneyed European translations, of Jewish Scripture. The doctrine stands that any sentence in the bible is an ineffable objective truth. However, when you start reading that a dragon is going to appear in the sky and attempt to devour the baby being born from a woman, also in the sky, you are obligated to believe only the most obvious and simple interpretation of that thought : That literally a dragon is going to try to eat a new born child while he's being born in the sky. This is a model of thinking which obviously disables itself as it functions, but the orthodoxies of Christianity can think no other way. On these grounds I declare the interpretations of American christians to be illegitimate. If I were to point to any one sect I would have to claim either the Freemasons or the Jewish Rabbinical clergy, as only they ( in my opinion ) can shed light on what that text actually meant from the author's point of view. But incidently, to know that requires induction into their highest ranks.

I predict that even in the face of this the christians will continue to announce the arrival of a beast whose number is 666. If the proliferations of the free sciences, superior philosophies and sects of belief/practice actually producing supernatural experiences, of the past century have'nt silenced the fundamental base of xtianity, then nothing will.


"Organized Religion is a safeguard against Religious Experience."

- Dr. Carl G. Jung.

Last edited by John Holland : 2005-05-22 at 16:25.
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  #17  
Old 2005-05-22, 16:36
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If the proliferations of the free sciences, superior philosophies and sects of belief/practice actually producing supernatural experiences, of the past century haven't silenced the fundamental base of xtianity, then nothing will.


I believe that 100 percent.
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  #18  
Old 2005-05-22, 18:21
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just dont think about religion and that shit. you arent going to stop it, just leave the christians and the rest be. you wont stop them. they will not stop themselves.
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  #19  
Old 2005-05-22, 18:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transient
just dont think about religion and that shit. you arent going to stop it, just leave the christians and the rest be. you wont stop them. they will not stop themselves.

unless we had a reverse inquisistion (how the fuck do you spell that!?)
raise pagans and take back your land
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POW MIA NEVER FORGOTTEN
no one can tell you to turn down your amp unless they're of higher skill or in your band
Why not make shit up as we go-fox
Ok. You're literate, intelligent and funny-FBS

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"you suck the cat-avatar-guy doesnt"-The Doc
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  #20  
Old 2005-05-22, 19:38
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L,B'XXX L,B'XXX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar_demon
unless we had a reverse inquisistion (how the fuck do you spell that!?)
raise pagans and take back your land


If you can't spell it you can't do it. Go to the back of the class.
I think you should have left out the second 's.'
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Grimm:I could read your mind but its in font size .5
Amadeus:Oh, and was there a cesserole (never mind spelling) involved?
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