I can't fucking decide which amp I will buy.

I have a Boss GT6 effects processor, I guess that matters.

I need to be able to play both greasy, deep, agressive deathmetal and hollow, cold tight blackmetal.

Of course it's all in the boss, but if there's any amp who can create that on itself, even better... I dunno.

Budget max is 2000 $/euros.

__________________

for 2000 bucks, I would go out and buy a marshall 1960 cab or something similair,

that'll set you back like 4/500 if you find a good deal.

then, get a good preamp and poweramp, just go to stores and try shit out, I love my Engl preamp, for the 1500 you've got left you can easily buy a good pre and poweramp plus a nice rack flightcase....

you could buy a mesa boogie 50/50 poweramp and a sweet preamp, you're from belgium, just check around the used circuit, I've seen belgian stuff on www.gitaarnet.nl (go to gitaarnet)

theres a engl savage 120 with a mesa cab for sale for only 1600 or something. that thing sounds so good it makes me get a hard on, it just owns most amps.

first of, I would suggest you try everything around, play the stuff yourself before thinking about making decisions, you do want to spend your money right and have fun of your amps for the years to come, right

you could look into a peavey 5150 II head, only $900 u.s.

__________________

yeah, new. but why spend all that cash on a new amp if you can get better used stuff?

I mean, its not a bad amp, jcm's and tsl's aren't bad either, but there definetly is better stuff out there!

the best thing you can do is go to Musik Productiv, its in germany, close to the dutch border, you can easily find their website, they have got EVERYTHING, its the biggest music store in the world, if you wanna try out amps, go there and spend 12 hours playing amps, its what I did :P

a used tube head like a 5150(II),jcm,recto,powerball, ect. will run you anywhere from $400 to $1400 if its in good condition. i think a 5150 II is just as good as a recto for metal and its almost half the price, just because an amp is cheaper doesnt mean it aint as good.

__________________

sure, but compare a powerball to a 5150 and you'll know what I mean

it has nothing to do with price even...

also, the II sounded less good then the original 5150 to me (???)

Alright I'll be sure to check the 5150 (II) out...

Def, you ever heard of Piens? That's one badass store close to my place... Pretty big as well...

www.piens.be

And oh yeah I know how to play guitar (a bit ) but I know jack shit of all that amp/guitar techniques...

So what exactly is/does a "nice rack flightcase"?

Also preamp and poweramp? Are they like head & 4x12"?

Thx

__________________

ok, a rack amp is a flightcase (you know those right) loaded with a pre and a poweramp

it has a preamp to shape your sound and a poweramp to make stuff loud.

a normal head has the same principle but I found out that most rack stuff is of better quality and preamps are often more versatile.

so yeah, they are different, but rackstuff is more expensive most of the time.

this is a rackhead with cab http://static.marktplaats.nl/fotos/...rkers/15260.jpg

get the picture


I've heard of piens, its kinda like our dutch 'feedback' (www.feedback.nl) but they don't even come close to the ammount of stuff musik productiv has, that shop is just insane. (its a pretty long drive for you though...)

if I where you I'de just play the shit out of all the amps you can get your hands on, see which ones you like and just orientate a bit!

Alright man, thanks a lot.... Yeah I've seen those racks pretty often on gigs.

But... Heads are tubes ("lampenversterker"?) but aren't those racks digital? Nothing against digital, just wondering....

Although I have never seen any racks/flightcases in shops...
Would you advise me those instead of a regular head then - particular good brands?

By the way I want 300 watts (never mind that lol)

__________________

you can get tube preamps and tube poweramps for racks, they rock... I've got a Engl tube preamp myself, extremely happy with that one

you want 300 watts huh.

what about 200 watt tube? shop for a marshall 9200 or el34 100/100.

you do have the cash for it so, just look around :P 2x100 watt tube power, you just need a descent preamp to power it.

I wouldn't suggest digital crap as preamp, or an SS poweramp for that matter!

if you gig a lot, a flightcase amp is nice, I like it more then a seperate head, and its easier to get the sound you like since you can combine different brands with each other (for example a marshall preamp and a peavey poweramp)

you can also put a nice racktuner in those racks if you want, but I only have a pre and poweramp so it doesn't take up too much space (HEAVY as fuck by the way, but since you work out you can incorporate that in your work out scedule )

anyways, 50/50 watt tube is more then enough really, 2x20 is allready loud, comparable to a 100w solid state even, the sound just cuts through way more, 2x50 is enough and a bit extra, 2x100 watt tube is just insane, but its nice to have loads of reserve I guess (you can run it on 100w mono and have the left channel of as a reserve, so if you blow a tube you can run the other 100w mono side if you need too)

it just depends what you do with it and what you demand from your sound, rackgear is expensive but most of it is real good quality, you can find a lot of great rackgear used (mesa boogie, peavey, engl, marshall) but ofcourse it depends on your taste of tone, just go out and play those amps

racks are great, i have a mesa vtwin tube rack preamp, and a separate power amp for each 4x12,one is 100w all tube and the other is 200w valve. but there is more to my rig than that, i also have a power conditioner, which is very important for any setup. a rocktron hush super c(noise suppressor). and an ibanez msp 1000, that has a compressor,2/3 octave eq, and a notch filter all in one.i don't have a rack tuner, because i've decided i like pedal tuners better than rack mount ones.

i'm thinking about selling my vtwin and getting a different preamp, but i'm stuck on which one i want to replace it with, a jmp-1, an engl 530, or an ada mp 1 with a three tube mod.....

i like rack setups because if i your in my situation where you might not like the tone of your current preamp as much as you'd like to, its cheaper to change just your preamp, than it would be to buy a whole other head if you had a head.

plus with a rack i can get that "me" sound alot easier.

__________________

Nice man.

Btw can you explain this please:



What does it do and why is it that important? Thanks

__________________

its kinda like a rack mounted power strip, it will protect your rig from gettin fried from surges and shit, plus alot of models have bonus features like lights on them so you can see your settings, or a tuner, ect. and they don't cost much even for new ones, i'd probably say furman makes the best imo.

__________________

Duh, The GT6 IS a preamp. All you need is a power amp. You don't need to be too special about it either. Just match you watts with your speaker and don't buy anything that's too cheap. I would suggest looking at a Crest, if they have the right watts for you.

__________________

the gt6 can be used as a preamp, but with the cash this guy has, why settle for that when he could buy a nice tubepreamp?
as for the poweramp. you don't need to match the watts with your speaker cab, you just need to make sure your speaker cab can handle as much or more than your poweramp will give it.
and he does need to be "special" about it, a nice tube poweramp that is ment for guitar will work and sound way better than a crest or crown power amp that is ment for a PA system.
a gt6 to a crest poweramp to any cab, good or bad isnt going to sound good compared to a setup like an engl 530 into a mesa simul class 2:90 into a marshall 1960a 4x12.

__________________

The Gt6 is a pretty damn good preamp. It has quite a few bells and whistles on it, which kinda overshadows the fact that a tube preamp can get 2 maybe three tones. Now, if one kept using the GT6 as an effects pedal for the preamp, you still can only do 2 or three tones with effects, but maybe you could use the eq on the GT6 to shape a couple different variations of the same tone. I'm sorry though, I don't buy the hype on a tube power amp geared especially for guitar. I've heard them, they sound good, but they don't sound $300-$500 better. As for the watts match-up on speakers, it's actually better to have twice the power amp you need for the speaker cabinet that you are using. It increase efficiency and headroom. The way you blow a speaker cabinet is to send a clipped signal to it at peak power, if you only turn it halfway up, it won't clip.

__________________

Alright...

I already decided I want the Mesa Recto stereo 2:100 poweramp. Good?

As for the matching of the watts with the cab, wtf? All I need is a decent 4x12" cabinet right?

So you're saying that I can use my GT6 as a fucking preamp (instead of an Engl 530, Marshall JMP-1, ...) ?????

That would make it a lot cheaper (don't need to get a footswitch too then ).

__________________

that's a hella good poweramp. you wont be dissapointed.
any 4x12 should do, but dont buy a cheap one that sounds like ass.
a jmp1 or an engl 530 will kick the shit out of a gt6 as far as tone goes, but yes, it will work just fine, and the fact you'd be playing it through a tube poweramp would color your tone a little which would help it to sound less 'fake' like those line 6 amps or something.

__________________

a gt6 might be able to get more 'tones' than a nice tube preamp, like say, a mesa vtwin. but the tones on the mesa are all usable, most people don't even need more than three tones. multi effect units all try to emulate tube amps, for a good reason, those tube amps have great tone.
the reason people buy low wattage tube amps is so they can get them to clip, because it sounds good when tube amps clip. if you have a 100w tube head clipping,like say a jcm 800, then say instead of a 300w 4x12 cab, you have a 25w 1x12 cab, you'll blow the shit out of that poor cab.
i understand what you means buy efficiency, and more power, but when people buy certain power amps, they want them to clip, and in order to do that, they need to crank em up. they don't need a 600w poweramp to push a 300w cab, about 100w is plenty for most people which is why most heads are about that.

__________________

the fact you said that "line 6 is fake shit" makes me think you just hate digital heads/preamps/simulators?

for the moment I can get some nice sounds from my GT6 through my shitty amp, and the Vetta from Line6 has some good stuff too.
It might not be at the same level from tube amps, but what the hell, it's close.

I'm gonna try just with the Mesa 2:100 (as you said, that's one part with tubes) and my GT6. If it sounds like shit I will just have a tube preamp added.

__________________

ahem did anyone mention the fact that a tube preamp sounds like a tube preamp?

and a gt-6 just doesn't?

haha, just listen to both and hear the difference


great choice on the poweramp exodus, if you ever sell it, you know who to call

line 6 IS fake shit, i don't necisarrily hate digitalshit, but any body who isnt completely def can hear the difference between a dual recto head and a line 6 head on recto mode.
its not even close.
if tube stuff wasnt all that great... why would all the s.s. people try to emulate it?
you don't see brands like mesa,marshall and engl,making heads that try to act like the s.s. competition do you?

__________________

Exactly, no matter how high tech amps get they will never recreate a tube tone. Its like the same reason acoustic guitars are still around... they just sound good. I have yet to heard a Modeling amp that was worth the money, maybe when the amp acually soudns like the amp its supposed to be modeling then it will be worth it

__________________

Alright... I get your point Guess I'll have to get a tube preamp anyway then.

By the way, Xdislexicx, what type of power conditioner do you use? Any good (and preferrably cheap) Furman model you would advise me?

And what about footswitch/floorboard (whatever it's called)?

__________________

footswitch: you get one with your preamp most of the time. or buy the one that you can get with it, depending on what preamp you get... if you like a lot of tone shaping options and don't mind semi-digital look around for a hughes&kettner acces preamp (used) they're still not really cheap but they're the shit, I liked those more then the triaxis (its the same concept though)
if you want all tube, check out the new engl series with 4 channels... sicko shit but I don't know the prices for those (and I don't think I wanna know either )

you don't HAVE to get a tube anything, i was just stating facts about how digital amps just wish they were tube. play what you like.

and a good, cheap, and dependable power conditioner would be a furman rack rider, they're only about $50 in the u.s., and for like $10 more you can get the version with lights. very dependable and high quality, but it wont kill your wallet either.
if you buy a preamp, like say a mesa,marshall, engl, ada,ect. just go to their website and order a footswitch.

__________________

Thanks!

By the way, does everyone here replaces their stock tubes with better ones cause I read everywhere that stock tubes miss definition...

And just out of curiosity, what do they cost?

__________________

www.drtube.nl



I order all my tubes there, great service and good prices....

anyways, mesa even has chinese tubes in them stock. most stock tubes blow, but if an amp still sounds good with crap tubes... it sounds even better with good ones. thats probably mesa's philosophy.

my mesa vtwin had stock tubes that were a year or two old in it when i bought it, then i used it for a few months like that, it still sounded pretty awsome, then i slapped some new sovteks in it, and i almost cummed in my pants.

__________________

If there is no validity in solid state amps, why the hell do they make them? Because they just want to confuse and piss people off? Maybe, it has something to do with giving the option of something different than a tube sound. I have heard very few (actually 2) tube amps that I like all by themselves. It's more like, buy this amp, buy this piece to make the distortion better, buy this piece to make the tone better, buy that piece to make the tone better, then by this piece to suppress the noise, blah blah blah. The 5150 II head I see on here touted as such a great sounding amp is one that I don't happen to like at all. It's got a boost at about 80 Hz that sounds fake as shit to me. Bogner makes one of the amps that I have liked, the Uberschall, if you tube guys want to cum on yourself, try one of those. I forget how much they cost but I'm pretty sure over $2000. I'm not into selling a kid to get good tone, especially the bloated prices for tube amps. When you buy a Mesa, your paying about 10-20% for the name on the amp. Fuck that. I'll get my tone somewhere else. Solid state offers me flexibility of volume and tone. You can tell me I don't have good tone because I don't have a tube anywhere near my rig and I won't believe you, because all I have to do is turn it on and I'm in love.

__________________

the bogner uberschall owns, but $2,500(u.s.)..... and people talk about mesa being pricey.
if you like solid state so much then keep playing solid state.
tube just sounds better to most people. warmer and fuller tone, tighter low end, tone that instead of turning to shit when you crank it to 10 it sounds twice as good.
sure there are a few tube amps that arent to great, but how many more s.s. amps are there that completely blow?
i do like a few s.s. amps but they're nothing special compared to the tube amps i love.
nobody is telling you that you don't have good tone because you have all s.s. shit, we can't here your shit so we don't know if its good or bad. so quit getting all defensive over your rig.

__________________

Your more likely to need a distortion pedal for SS amp then a tube. And the 5150II sucks, go play a 5150. The preamp tubes in the 5150II are shit.

__________________

wash your mouth! the 5150 II doesnt suck at all! in fact, i like the 5150 II better. the distortion sounds just as good to me, a little difference in tone, but just as good imo, especially seeing how i'd just replace all the stock tubes with sovteks or jjs anyways. to make it sound way better.
but its the fact that the 5150 II has a separate eq for each channel so you don't have to sacrifice good cleans just to have killer dist. that makes me like it a bit more.

__________________

Ill take a 5150 with the bias mod over 5150 II any day.

__________________

I agree that there are alot of s.s. amps that suck, in fact most of them do. But the tubes are just as bad to me or worse. Amp manufacturers are just not getting it right for me, so I don't use one. Almost all my rig is pro audio gear.

__________________

the thing is for me... i've owned several s.s. amps in the past,head&cab setups,combos,rack rigs... and with all of them i had to use pedals, i must have had a dozen... dod grunge...dod deathmetal....ibanez ds7... boss metalzone...ibanez sm7.... marshall jackhammer..... blah blah..... because the distortion on most s.s. amps suck... and the cleans turn to shit on most of em too.... so if you want to be loud, you can crank the amps dist channel and have it sound like ass, or play a pedal through the clean channel and have it sound like ass because the cleans fall apart and pedals sound thin and weak with no presence.
when i went tube...all of a sudden instead of having a good tone at low volume that fell apart when i cranked it.... with the tube setup i had good tone at low volume... and when i turned it up it sounded even better.

in order to make a pedal have good presence at high volumes, and sound warm and colorful most people need a bunch of shit like sonic maximizers,compressors,graphic eqs,notch filters, and so forth, in the end all that shit will cost you about how much a decent tube preamp would.. plus all that shit would take up more space in your pedalboard and rack than a 1 or 2 space preamp... either way you go... in the end you should be able to acheive good tone. one way may be better for one person than the other, but to each his own.

__________________