ok this is mainly for the music historian guys who was the first death and black metal bands? i have heard that death was the first death metal band which i can beilive because death and deathmetal , but then i have heard some people claim that they were not the first but definitly built the death metal plat form in a sence. then for black metal i have heard that venom was the first and that the genre's name came from their album "black metal" is this true or where there bands of the same genres and such before them?

__________________

Yeah Venom was the first black metal band, followed by Mercyful Fate who are just as awesome as Venom. Possessed was actually the first death metal band, Death was still one of the earliest and most influential.

__________________

Well, I'm so glad it's that simple.

Could one of the local True Black Metal fags please take this gentleman to task, please?

__________________

Venom was the first one to use the word Black Metal, but the first real Black Metal band, wich started the entire scene (back then then all death-metal), was Mayhem.

__________________

Sanderinos, I went to bnrmetal.com it says the first Mayhem album came out in 1987, by then Mercyful Fate had already disbanded after two albums. I've also heard people say that Venom was the first thrash band, but I think it was Metallica.

Ah fuck I have 182 posts that's an unlucky number!

__________________

blink fag

and yeah, metallica and slayuer were the early thrash/speed gods.,
and then thre was pantera in 1983 with the first power metal

__________________

I thought 80s Pantera was hair metal. You're right Doc thrash started in the US with Metallica and Slayer, but let's not forget Kreator brought thrash to Europe in '85...IT'S TIME TO RAISE THE FLAG OF HATE!!!

Fuck yeah 183 posts! By the way, this is a fuckin cool thread man

__________________

Possessed, Venom and Mercyful Fate, the (un)holy trinity.

Sodom, Destruction and early Kreator also had an early impact on Mayhem, Darkthrone and the like. And I know Morbid Angel are huge Sodom fans. And I believe Hellhammer/ Celtic Frost were one of if not the first bands to regularly call themselves Black Metal. Can anyone verify or dispute this?

__________________

arent we forgetting bathory? first release was 1984, but formed in 1983.

__________________

Definatly Bathory.... Mercyful Fate were earlier then mayhem but it isn´t black metal. Bathory were the first to growl, I believe.... Oh and Doc! Pantera = Power Metal ?!?!?!

__________________

Black Metal:Venom(then Bathory and after Burzum)
Death Metal:Hellhamer(then Onslaught and Possesed)

__________________

true...

__________________

so which year did death metal start in? coz MA started in 89 if i remember correctly... but i know they wernt the first.

__________________

I think Overkill were the first thrash band. '78.

anthrax and exodus were also one of the first thrash bands. Remember where kirk came from, don't forget he was first an exodus member.

__________________

I think Anthrax were '81, and Exodus were '80.

Overkill were originally called "The Lubricunts" in '78, but Anthrax were formed later on in the same year.

You guys are forgetting that there were 'waves' of black metal.

1st Wave: Bathory, Venom, and Mercyful Fate (This wave was not really black metal but when later bands were influenced, they took the style of these bands and tok it to teh extremes)
2nd Wave: Mayhem, Burzum, Immortal, Darkthrone, Emperor, ect. ect.
3rd Wave: Krieg, Judas Iscariot, and the likes.

First death metal band? Hellhammer or Celtic Frost? Maybe even Slayer because if you really look at the riffs on Show No Mercy, they are death metal riffs.

I'd probably have to say Hellhammer. They were kinda Thrash/Black though weren't they?

Riffs dont exactly make a genre. In my opinion its mostly focused on vocals, heavyness, and lyrics. If blink-182 has some death sounding riffs, it dosent really make them death metal now does it.

__________________

I did mean Overkill were formed later on in the same year.

Bands like Immortal were making death metal at first, then came Mayhem who really set black metal...

__________________

death started in 86, also morbid, these were the original death metal bands. possessed released seven churches in 85, so these were the first death bands. slayer in their early days were referred to as death metal.

__________________

immortal were never death, and mayhem came before immortal.

__________________

that was before they released albums, read Lords of Chaos...

__________________

True, some of the guys in Immortal along with Varg were in a band called Old Funeral, which was very much death metal, but this was some time after Mayhem released Death Crush, which is generally considered the first norwegian style black metal release. And don't forget Sarcofago from Brazil, Sameal from Finland, and Rotting Christ from Greece. All three were formed in the late 80's, and releasing demos/albums which we would later identify as black metal, while Dark Throne were still playing technical death metal.

__________________

Well lets face it, Venom was not really as heavy or had the vocals of say Krieg. But they are still both black metal. I'm not here to argue about something to pointless, I was just pointing out that if you play some of thoes old Slayer riffs they resemble death metal. Thats all.

Is Rotting Christ that Old? I thought that those bands were from after Mayhem...

BTW I´m listening to Mayhem - Live In Leipzig at the moment (with Dead as vocalist) and its awesome!!!

__________________

i wont consider old slayer death metal, thrash/speed with metallica.

__________________

Rotting Christ started releasing demo's in 1989 I believe. So not as old as Mayhem, but definitely one of the first. And any black metal fan who has not heard Sameal's first two albums "Worship Him" and "Blood Ritual" definitely owe it to themselves to check them out.

So Sanderinos, you recomend "Live In Leipzig"? I have yet to hear it. I was thinking of buying it, but I am pretty cynical when it comes to live albums.

__________________

Live In Leipzig is Mayhem's best. Dead on vocals and it has that very grim live feeling.

Definatly....

__________________

Ok, here it goes...
The first real metal band was Black Sabbath, sure Steppenwolf used the words heavy metal, but give me a fuckin break, sell that shit to the mall kids. Zepplin really were never metal to me, but definetly influenced metal bands that came after them. Pentagram started around the same time as Sabbath, but were influenced by them, not before them. Anyway, if Sabbath started it, were they not the first of all the genres? Sabbath were influenced by the beatles, who were inspired by blues, who were inspired by gospel. So in essence, the first black metal band was a church choir. Ironic, no?

Now that my shit storm is over, here's what I really think:

First death band: If you mean TRUE, cookie monster, blast beats death, easily Napalm Death.

First Black metal: Probably Venom or Slayer lyrically, but Slayer first imployed that music style.

First thrash band: They sprang up out of nowhere, but the first couple where Slayer, Metallica, Anthrax, Exodus. Overkill however, was probably the first.

__________________

You guys have it all wrong. Study your metal history people, it is a lot more important in life than the shit you are forced to learn in school!

First thrash band: Overkill did not come out in '78, on the liner notes of Feel the Fire it says "Serving America since 1981" and even so just 'cause they were around longer than some of the other thrash bands doesn't mean they were the first thrash band. In their early years they could have just been doing Priest and Motorhead covers. The first thrash band was either Venom or Metallica, depending on whether you consider Venom thrash, which I don't.

First black band: Not Slayer, they are pure thrash. Venom was the first black metal band, and notice their second album was called Black Metal.

First death band: Napalm Death was one of the earliest death bands but the whole thing started with Possessed.

I've read this info in 2 different books, and I'm sure you'll get the same answer anywhere on the Net.

__________________

Anubis... Slayer and Black metal.... that is the dumbest thing I´ve ever heard....

__________________

"Overkill are the first thrash band. They were formed when a previous D.D. Verni/Rat Skates (real names: Carlos Verni and Lee Kundrat) project, a punk band called "The Lubricunts", broke up in 1978. D.D. quickly wanted to form a new band, so he put out an ad which was answered by vocalist Bobby Ellsworth. He was also a bass player at the time, but in the new band he would concentrate solely on vocals. He brought with him a guitarist from his old band (a punk/classic rock cover band), whose name is forgotten. After rejecting several names, including "Virgin Killer", this new band finally settled on "Overkill", naming themselves after a Motorhead album.

Early covers (especially those done under the Virgin Killer name in the very very early days) were punk songs for the most part, including selections by the Ramones, and The Dead Boys. By 1980, they had recruited two guitarists (names forgotten over time) and the setlist included songs by Motorhead ("Overkill", half of the Ace of Spades album, and others), Judas Priest ("Tyrant" was their closer for a while), and later Iron Maiden and Riot, as well as a smattering of punk covers, which were played with extra distortion, intensity, and concentration on riffs, thus marking Overkill as the first thrash band.

In 1981, Dan Spitz (later of Anthrax) left the band and Rich Conte entered, along with Bobby G. At this point, they started writing originals, including "Grave Robbers" (later renamed to "Raise the Dead"), "Overkill", and "Unleash the Beast Within". This is the first thrash metal original, predating James Hetfield and Hugh Tanner's "Hit the Lights" by several months."

That's where I got it from.

I know I know

__________________

DIO!!

seriously though, all bands can be any "genra".
fucking hell, we just read CC was called punkrock.
we should ban all genras.

__________________

Death Metal: Possesed, or from what Ive HEARD FROM OTHERS, shit like Celtic Frost, etc. From what i know, Possesed.


Black Metal: Venom, easily.

Dissection > Venom
Venom > Overkill
Me > Overkill

Overkill blows. They should be shot

__________________

Overkill rules so shut the fuck up

__________________

You should be shot motherfucker. And by the way, what's your name? I want to know who I'm lookin for in teh obituaries. Die motherfucker die!
You



You suck
you









































Bitch

__________________

Isn't Motorhead the first thrash metal band?

__________________

Motorhead wasn't necessarily a thrash metal band, however no other band had a bigger influence on thrash metal than Lemmy & co. If it wasn't for them thrash never would have existed.

__________________

It´s a bit late but thise post caught my eye...


It took very long before Mayhem released Deathcrush.... the time before that they did a lot of concerts so they played black metal long before their recording...

__________________

a.) I dont like Motorhead
b.) Mayhem are good... but over-rated. De Mystiriis dom Sathanas is a great cd though.

__________________

Another fuck you to Dissection, just because you don't like Motorhead doesn't mean they weren't one of the first, if not the first thrash band.

Motorhead was one of the first to really use the double bass drum, double picking style in almost every song, and therefore, yeah, I could see tham as the first thrash band. They were very influental at least.

__________________

Sanderinos- I remember in atifman's "bombshell about weijia" thread somebody was saying that black metal actually originated in Italy. Do you know anything about that?

__________________

In Italy?! Man, people in Italy are lovers, not God Haters!
Well, that could be possible....

HEY MY POST ARE NOW 666....Wow! What an awesome number!

__________________

It would be pretty friggin cool if it actually started in Italy. I mean in Italy they have the best food on the planet but there have never really been a lot of metal bands there.

__________________

True true.

you don't listen to much Cream do you?

__________________

The fast picking kinda started with surf rock

__________________

Black Metal would be bathory; a great band. And death metal I'm not sure I would consider Death to be the first one, and Slayer would be the first thrash.

__________________

Mayhem was started in 1983. Their first album came out in 87, but before that they had a lot of demos like Deathcrush, Pure fucking armagedon, Screams of a tortured scull, and sevral demos with other bands on the same tape.

Mayhem was maybe not the first black metal. But they was maybe the first band who was not posers. Bands like Venom was just a stage-show like Dimmu and Cradle is today, they was even called "Cheerleaders from hell"...

__________________

English tip; Use the word "were" a lot more.

__________________

First black metal band id say was Hellhammer, lateer renamed Celtic Frost. But venom came out around the same time...

__________________

repulsion came out pretty early, they kind of influenced cannibal corpse.

__________________

Oh yeah, Repulsion. I think they were called Genocide before they chose Repulsion, in about '84.

Napalm Death still win though. They formed 2 years earlier.

*sarcasm*

some of you guys should really start listening to Blink 182. "What's my age again?" *hint hint*

*sarcasm*

__________________

Napalm isent death metal there "Grindcore" .... dont ya love fuckin genres???? Why are the grindcore??? ... whats the difference between grindcore and detah metal??? dont ask me.... but sum how i can name quite a few "grindcore" bands

__________________

Who cares. It was still "extreme" metal.

bathory, released their first album in 1984 "bathory"

saxon, which isn't black or whatever metal, released their first in 1979.

__________________

Hellhammer is the vocalist's name in Mayhem. right?

__________________

umm.. i believe it "was" Euronymous.

__________________

Euronymous may have done some vocals is very early stuff... Like in 1983 or something, but he did not do vocals on any albums.

Mayhems vocals:

Messiah: Session Vocals 1986-1987
Kittil: Vocals 1987
Dead: Vocals 1988-1991
Occultus: Vocals/Bass for a short time in 1991(after Dead's death and Necro's leave)
Attila: Vocals on the "De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas" album
Maniac: Vocals 1986-1987, 1995-Present

__________________

Mayhem was one of the first? I didn't know that. They rock though nonetheless

There are a few theories of the birth of BM.
One is that first BM band was born in Italy, under the name "Death SS".
It is true that Venom was first to use the term "Black Metal", but many consider Death SS was the original one, which gave a lot of Influences to others, like Venom. I'm not really an expert in this, but thats what I Know.

__________________

No one is ever gonna know the first of anything. My grandpa could have dressed up in corpse paint with 3 buddies and jammed satanic music but Venom just got signed first.

__________________

True

__________________

I don't really know about black metal history, but Venom was talking publicly about black metal because that days' metal scene was talking about "satanic metal" as "black metal".

If we talk about one of the first Satanic music bands it would be Jacula. Italian Satanic Progressive Rock. But we were talking about Hard Rock/Metal.

EDIT: Jacula was formed in mid 60's

Venom were the 1st to talk about black metal but they were playing speed metal
the 1st black metal band would be mercyful fate or bathory

__________________

i dont know alot about napalm death but 1 song - necessery evil wich is not grindcore but death metal
id say grindcore is non-stop agressive death metal
listen to origin and youll know what i mean

__________________

Anything punk distorted and in overdrive=grind

__________________