Hey
This is more for the more in depth musican, but do you people feel about the theory used in most black metal and death metal bands---> its really really poor, some songs dont have key signatures, but when they do there is accidentals all over the place, i believe for a band to be good, they must possess some knowledge of musical concepts- and not some guys who can play, but dont know shit about music, and having these songs that are so fast (oh wow) but being as atonal as a drum solo. Opinions please .............

well it's death metal man, come on give em a brake, they might be able to play a lil bit but u dont expect them to compose a perfect peice of music as well do u

masters like vai and clapton can compose music, but the average guitar player want even know what there C major scale is bud, so dont expect so much from these so called musicians

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exactly my point
are they really musicians than ? if they dont know theory ?? and ppl have the hide to say black metal guitarist are better than vai and other virtuosoes of amazing skill

I think it doesn't make sence to write the notation for a chromatic or halftone-fulltone composed song. Many songs are created like that. You've got just "#"s and "b"s.
And as long they have skill to play it, they don't need knowledge of musical concepts in my opinion.
Many guitarists teached themselve to play. So how should they now about the key-signatures? You can be virtous without the knowledge of noation.

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all that matters is if you can play.

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Hmm you can't make a statement without giving examples , meaning name some bands goddamit!

Try listening to Anorexia Nervosa , Furia , Ad Inferna , Agathodaimon , Melechesh and tell me if the songs dont have a key signature. Also listen to Anorexia Nervosa's cover of Rachmaninov's Prelude in D Minor... a.k.a Hail Tyranny

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i believe your dumb. The fact that you'll give up a real good band all because they didn't take the school marching band when they went to high school.

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If the guys can play, it doesn't matter if they can't tell you all about scales.

And some black metal guitarists can outplay most others, just try listen to the more symphonic bands. Ihsahn of Emperor is awesome.

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I scoff at the suggestion that i will exclude a band because they didnt make the school band, and DID i say that you had to notate to be a virtuoso, NO, i didnt- all im saying is these guys arent true musicians, they have to be able to UNDERSTAND what they are going, which most dont. i didnt SAY that they dont have key sig, i just said they dont take note of them and stick by them, hence the amount of accidentals in there songs,
Now for examples, mostly anything by COB or dimmu, changes key sig about 6 times during a song, genius ? or do they hvae no idea !!

They make a living by making music, so what does that make them?

You sitting in your room learning scales makes you a musician, but a band that has sold many albums is composed of non-musicians? You are a moron.

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Who says black and death metal bands don't know theory?

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oh my god
gigantic penis, your a idiot, i didnt say that werent musicians u freak, i said they arent TRUE <--------- hence the word TRUE, TRUE TRUE, musicians, becuase they dont understnad what they are doing, they need to know the rules to be able to break them,christ read the message before saying crap like that!!!!!!

First off you have to be able to spell musician. And just because they do not know music theory, chords, scales, ect. Dosen't mean they are not musicians. I know all the scales, chords, sweep patterns, circle of fiths, ect. and I am a musician. Mark Hopkis from Blink-182 dosen't, but he is still a musician. They may know shit, they may not, but if your into music just for technicality and knowledge, and thats all you look for and judge for then you are really missing out. Taken straight from the dictionary:

"Musician-
One who composes, conducts, or performs music, especially instrumental music."

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BLOOOOOOODY HELL
telling me how to spell the word, OH MY GOD, 'it doesnt matter that i cant spell, atleast im trying ' HA and read the post before going off, i didnt say that that didnt make them musicians, reading and understanding is also a skill u need to grasp

ok, tell me which bands have better musicians:

a) dimmu borgir
or
b) a punk band who plays in the key of Amin with chords composing of A powerchord, B powerchord and then finally D powerchord.

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Actually, you pretty much did right there dumb ass. Yes they are musicians. Look it up in the dictionary. And Weijia, Dimmu Borgir may be better guitarists, it all depends on what the listener prefers. Just because there better guitarists, dosen't make one band better than the other, its all about the listeners preference.

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i said muscians not guitarists in response to his original post. but maybe dimmu is a bad example.

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My input: Blink 182 stays in the same key for most of their songs. They must truly understand music theory and be TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE musicians. Stravinski doesnt stay in a key for many of his. He's a fuckin' hack.

By the way, if you keep up insulting back and forth, this is getting closed. This is your warning especially, onceinalifetime.

So remember folks: Mark Hopkis > Igor Stravinski

Thank you for your time.

Still the same.

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Maybe all of these "untrue" musicians are just big fans of chromatic scales...

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hmmm most punk is simple guitar, it doesnt make them some form of a poser musician wannabe shit

RALPH WIGGUM WITH A FUCKING FLUTE IN HIS NOSE = MUSICIAN

and another thing, some punk does take alot of talent, for example, the band my cousin, todd kowalski belongs too, Propagandhi, some of that shit gets pretty hard!!

example song, "purina hall of fame"

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possessing knowledge of theory wont make you a good musician......musicmanship is not only about knowing how to play......its more about wot to play & where to play.......and IMHO for a band to be good they should share a common chemistry...and ofcourse kickass music
as weija said.....would you rate the punk band above dimmu just cuz they know their chords & progressions??? this is METAL dude...you have to play with feel...and not with a textbook in front of you

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a) a band playing in a minor would not be using a b5 powerchord thank you.
b) the thing is stravinski KNOWS he is changing - u just proved my point thank you, he understands what he is doing, so yes he is the 'hack'
c) why can u mock me and get away with it (eg TRUE TRUE TRUE) and i do the same and i get 'warned' scoff

it's Mark Hoppus

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Do you know that they don't understand the music? I don't think so. I don't know it as well.
It's the same thing with interpretations of poetry.
Just a few people know the truth.
So, that's all bullshit.

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Unlike a lot of people I've taken a few classes on the theories and knowledge of
musick in general, and guitar classes.

The beauty of metal though is that you don't have to know a lot about composing
to be able to play- cannibal corpse, exodus, and dark throne.
but it still sounds good. And bands that do know musick and composing,
also sound good- children of bodom, nightwish, CoF.

Ok onceinalifetime, I got this for you.

musician - One who composes, conducts, or performs music, especially instrumental music.

If your word is higher than the dictionary meaning, than you are right. Otherwise, you are wrong. The whole "True Musician" thing makes no sense, so don't even try to argue about it.

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I can mock you because you're being an ass and I'm a mod, onceinalifetime. But the difference is I'm making fun of you, while you're yelling at people. Do we understand? I'd hope so.

Stravinski does know what he's doing. But you have to assume that. For all you know, black metal bands know exactly what they're doing as well. You just assume they dont. I knew what I was doing when I made the example, and no I didnt make your point for you. Anyone could say "Stravinski doesnt stay in the same key all the time. Listen to The Rite of Spring. It's all over the place. Obviously he knows nothing." Would they be right in saying it's all over the place? Yes. Would they be right in saying he knows nothing? No. There: my point.

Also, I said 'most,' not 'all' of the time, with Blink 182. Thank you to DELETE79 for the correction, as it really means shit to me how his name is spelled.

And, since MetalPoldi mentioned poetry, I'll run with that. e.e. cummings, just to take one example, does know all about prosody, rhythm, meter, and anything else you'd like to say about poetry. So does William Carlos Williams. Yet, their poems dont even demonstrate an understanding of punctuation. Stupid or intentional? Finnegans Wake is full of spelling errors, and the book begins with an uncapitalized letter its final sentence has no period. Is Joyce just ignorant? According to you, yes.

Now, there's a difference between a brilliant man's disregard for rules he knows and a black metal band's. So Stravinski and Joyce are obviously different. However, just because they ignore theory for no reason nearly as good as Stravinski's doesnt mean it's accidental. I'm not calling it brilliant, but intentional. It might be a dumb thing to do, but not demonstrating something is entirely different from not knowing something. I know a kid who could tell you all you want to know about theory. However, what he writes, guitar music, is not following the rules. It doesnt make him ignorant, it just shows a choice he made. If you cant understand that (and I know you can, because you do with Stravinski), then that's your problem.

Complain again and see what happens to your thread. If you want to respond, respond. If you want to complain, keep your fingers away from the keyboard.