Thing is, it's almost impossible to shut up when you're faced with it. I've reached the level where I'm receiving at least three or four e-mails of pure religious hatred per week, so you're not alone with the pain.
Can be pretty fun though. Judging from one I got last week I've at the very least come extremely close to perpetrating manslaughter by means of strangling someone with his own froth.

On the issue of Iraq, I feel I must ask - are you implying that 9/11 was a conspiracy by the American government, or just that certain parts of it sizzed their pants with joy at the flames and screams?

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Seems to be the latter - they wouldn't actually do anything like that (and I'm also firmly in the camp that believes the US Government hasn't shown signs of late, if ever, of being competent enough to do everything they'd need to do in order to pull off that sort of conspiracy), but as soon as it happened they'd be damn sure to take advantage. I mean, who wants all those American lives to be wasted (i.e. not directly resulting in American hegemony)?

Hope so, I don't think I could take Paddy being in with the 9/11-morons. They did a poll here recently, showing that something like 18% percent of people around my age in this damn country think that it was a government conspiracy; inducing me to wanna take a pole of my own and drive through someone's heart. Or maybe emigrate to a pole. Nah, I don't know. Lameness begets lameness.

Yeah, how is that crowd faring these days, from an American perspective? I mean, they must have had a field day during Bush's reign, but right now?

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I wasn't implying anything that I didn't type, which was that the attack permitted the enactment of much of this plan, and that it was a Godsend to those who enjoyed membership of both PNAC and the Bush administration. Regardless of what one believes about 9/11 the fact remains that it was an early Christmas present to those in power - the 4-syllable rubber stamp for literally EVERYTHING - and my personal feeling is that their open desire to have another Pearl Harbour-style attack makes them just as sick as if they had been involved in the attack themselves. Judging them to be mentally capable of it and saying they actually did it are two very different things, though.

My stance on the 9/11 truth thing (separate from my stance on Iraq) is that I don't think there's any plausible reason to doubt the claims of conspiracy on purely moral or logistical grounds. Worse things have been done to the American people by the American government, namely the EPA farce that occurred immediately after 9/11 which will cause more people to die over the next 10 years than died on the day itself and in much more agonising pain, and the reason for the EPA's lies about the state of the air is that the Whitehouse ordered them to change its report so that Wall Street could re-open. On top of that, we have the first responders dying and being told to fuck off by the government when they ask for financial help. The Iraq war, now widely accepted to be based on lies, has killed thousands of Americans and over a million Iraqis. The U.S. government has no qualms about killing its own citizens for power and money. If you rewind back to 1962 and read Operation Northwoods you will find ample evidence in there that the government of the day was willing, right up to the level of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, to commit terrorist attacks against the American people as a pretext for war with Cuba. Many of the proposed attacks involved fake deaths, but others didn't, as you will read (it's a short document). The plan was never carried out, but like I said there were willing participants right up to the highest levels of government. Interestingly, one of the proposed attacks involved a remotely flown airliner. When you consider that this was being discussed over 40 years ago it's not hard to believe that similar and better technology could have been used on 9/11. I'm not saying it was, I'm saying that the conspiracy theories can't be dismissed out of hand on the grounds that they're improbable or impossible.

In terms of the logistics end of things, it's not difficult to imagine scenarios whereby something like 9/11 could be carried out by domestic elements. Military compartmentalisation would reduce the number of those who were knowingly involved down to the size of a boardroom meeting. The Manhattan Project which was developing the atom bomb involved hundreds of thousands of people who weren't aware of what they were participating in and never mentioned it to anyone, and this was only revealed decades after the fact. It happens. One element of the attack that I found quite interesting was the lack of response from NORAD and related agencies, and their lack of response was explained - to my mind - years later by the revelation that on the day of 9/11 there were dozens of wargame exercises going on parallel to the attacks themselves, many of them involving hijacked aircraft, and at least two of them involving said aircraft being flown into targets. The phantom radar blips and the sending of fighter jets out to the coasts for other wargames pretty much paralysed the defence system. If I were to entertain the notion of conspiracy I'd consider this to be evidence in favour of it - that many people were involved, insofar as they didn't respond, without knowledge of it or the ability to change their circumstances. When you listen to the radio chatter between these agencies you will hear repeated calls for clarity about whether or not what is happening is genuine or a wargame exercise. Whether this was planned or they just picked a really bad time/day to stage exercises is up for debate, but it could very easily go either way.

Like I stated at the outset, while I don't necessarily believe one side over the other (the waters are far too murky for me to have a dip), I don't think it's reasonable or right to dismiss the theories for reasons such as "they'd never do such a thing" or "someone would have saw something/talked", and certainly not because "they're incompetent". I think that's the greatest lie the Bush administration has ever put out there - that they don't know exactly what they're doing. The so-called mistake of Iraq is in fact unfolding pretty much as they wanted it to, and this "we wanna leave but can't" crap is just that: crap. Permanent military bases in countries with oil isn't an accident or unforeseen consequence of a badly planned war. That said, if 9/11 was an "inside job", to coin a phrase, it's not likely to me that Bush would have been involved, because he does seem to be a genuine sub-mental.

I don't think I'm any more conspiratorially minded than the next person, but perhaps being Northern Irish I'm a few degrees more inclined to such ideas than most. The reason for this is something called "the dirty tricks department", which is the N. Irish nickname that was given to what most people refer to as "False Flag terrorism". For instance, British agents blowing up water treatment plants, blaming the IRA and having the loyalists respond accordingly, invariably with the brutal murder of civilians who were technically British citizens. There's an incredibly dark and murky underbelly to The Troubles which has parallels with The Strategy of Tension and Operation Gladio (Google 'em!). Collusion between the security forces and paramilitary groups here was rampant, too. It's extremely tiring and depressing to absorb all of that shit, and it's extremely tempting to side with the sceptics and just accept the official line, but that doesn't make it right. I feel similar about 9/11 - I wouldn't be even remotely shocked if it was revealed to be an insider conspiracy, despite the thick depression that would come with it.

I'll gladly discuss theories about the attacks, and have no problem being shown to be wrong about things, because I'm not invested emotionally or otherwise in "9/11 Truth". I have an interest in it ("it" being the conspiracy angle, not trutherism), but I do my own reading/thinking and try to stay open minded about both sides. For instance, I'm satisfied that 90% of the claims in support of a conspiracy that I've read have been dealt with and debunked, but other things are yet to be challenged to any significant degree. In these respects I feel that I'm a far cry from the truthers. If you lose respect for me for even entertaining the possibility of a conspiracy I can only hope that you do so without lumping me in with those bleating sheep, flag-sucking numb-nuts! haha

The issue is really with the lack of thought I see in these matters. Personally, I haven't seen a single piece of actual evidence that would seriously push me towards calling it an inside job. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not denying that it was a welcome occurrence in the minds of aforesaid bastards. But I see this conspiracy theory spread like a waft of methane at a cocktail party in the same circles that, for example, claim that the moon landing was a hoax. It's this knee jerk reflection to see government conspiracies in absolutely everything and then tweak and select among fact and speculation to support it that gets me and I honestly haven't seen anyone in that crowd not succumbing to that level at some point. Regardless of how well they started out.

And no offense, but I don't take random (from my perspective) internet sites presenting what they claim to be government documents as evidence for anything! Not saying that I disbelieve you, but if we were to take this discussion to the level where I start changing opinion, we'd have to up the ante a bit on the factual side.

Nah, I certainly don't lose respect for anyone because they are prepared to entertain a possibility. Look at me, when pressed I'll freely admit that I cannot disprove the existence of a god, and I'm probably as arrogant and aggressive an atheist as you could hope never to lay eyes on. What I meant by that is that often you'll find the most reasonable person holding some notion - such as a conspiracy theory - and, basically, being a moronic jerk about it. It's always such a let down.

But hey, the current president has laid out a plan for complete withdrawal, and to my mind his administration seems to have the right basic idea; namely that Iraq should be run by Iraqis and that everyone else should just get out. Who knows, it might even work out that way - the chances of it seem hell of a lot better now than they did three years ago. I'm not sure how that rhymes with the claim that they're building permanent bases with the intent of staying around, and as a matter of fact I don't even know that that is actually the case.


Sometimes I can't help but to feel that one of the many gems out of the quote hoard of Ross Scott applies here too. It went straight to my physics inundated heart; he brought up the question about why measuring the position of a quantum particle changes its momentum and vice versa.
And the only correct answer is to get drunk and set fire to things.

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That's the thing though, I feel that the sceptics are just as prone to errors in thinking about conspiracies as the conspiracy theorists, they just come at it from opposite ends. Even I was like that. I remember sitting at a dinner table in Mexico a few months after 9/11, and someone said "did you hear about the theories that Bush did it?" and I laughed at it, and said "not even Bush would do that!". It took a few years and a lot of reading - mostly of history, rather than of the attack itself - to lead me to at least accept it as a possibility. In the same way that the theorists see conspiracies everywhere the sceptics refuse to see genuine conspiracies and dismiss them a priori, ignoring any evidence in favour of them, presumably out of a fear of being lumped in with the tinfoil hat brigade, and will always opt for the coincidence theory or the incompetence theory. In the same way that the tinfoil hat wearers will try to incorporate every little piece of questionable evidence into their theories, so do the coincidence/incompetence theorists. With that in mind, I think we can all agree that such labels are largely meaningless, and that cold, honest, passionless discussion is the only way to go. It is indeed a slippery slope, but that's no reason to just forget about it, you know? Even the term "conspiracy theorist" carries a connotation that blunts the intellect and makes people roll their eyes with impatience. The truth is, everyone is a conspiracy theorist about 9/11. If you accept the official line completely you are a conspiracy theorist, given that a conspiracy is simply an illegal act carried out by 2 or more people which involved planning, funding and all the rest of it, and that any theory about that arrangement is by definition a conspiracy theory. The question is "which theory best accounts for the available evidence?" I have a "let the chips fall where they may" attitude about it, which I don't see as being inherently problematic.

I'd gladly discuss the things I feel are evidence of a [possible] conspiracy/cover-up with you, but I'm not sure how in depth you wanna go or if we should start another thread haha.

Sorry, I hastily found a link to Operation Northwoods without thinking about sourcing it properly, so I just took the first URL I found haha. Here is the Wikipedia article which has numerous external sources at the bottom:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

It was hosted on a government website when it was first declassified but I can't seem to find it at the moment.

If you were referring to the PNAC document, the link I supplied directs you to their own website - can't get a better source than that!

I agree 100%, which is why I wanted to make a distinction between me and my research and the mentalities of the truth movement. It's not such a big deal to me to believe that there is a possibility of inside involvement for the reasons in my last post, so it's quite easy for me to update my opinions as new evidence emerges or is debunked, which is obviously vital to the success and validity of any research.

The permanent bases thing is discussed in the PNAC document, and I was under the impression that it was common knowledge; it was widely discussed and debated in the mainstream media. That said, if Obama's administration is truly seeking to undo the mayhem of the Bush administration there's no reason why they can't just close them down. I'll reserve judgement until I see it happen haha. The fact remains, the intentions and the plans were there.

Hahaha no arguments here

Mainstream media has a tendency to pass me by. I've more or less given up on 'em as a source of information - my own experience of them from a political viewpoint is that you can hardly spot the facts for all the tweaks, half truths and tips on how to loose another three pounds. So, I tend to stick to my books and guitars. They're filled with equations and metal, not lies.

Fuck, if we keep this up we'll soon start hugging and shit; I've gotten so used to talking with Mr. and Mrs. GOD IS GRACE AND GOODNESS aaaaaand HE SHALL STICK A BURNING ROD UP YOUR ASS FOR NOT AGREEING WITH ME lately that this feels kinda like walking into pink candy floss. Just keep in mind, I'm not a midget and I saw a Jackie Chan movie once. I'm not defenseless.


Indeed, let facts show the way. And as far as I've seen, the core of the matter is what we have a fine example of in that document concerning planned terrorist acts against their own people:
Despite the fact that so many so high up were prepared to consider it seriously it was never actually done, and furthermore, it was later made public. Same thing with that cute little neo-conservative paper - it was made public. And if they were really so stupid as to do that while seriously planning to bring down WTC, I think that automatically implies what PST88 was talking about. They were just too damned stupid to pull it off. And if the handling of the Iraq war is anything to go by, I'd say that is a pretty likely conclusion.
Of course, this could all just be an elaborate ruse to make smart sods like me THINK we're intelligent as we're unwittingly made to act as the Devil's advocate. Now we're onto something.
But we're completely on the same level. My only actual emotional response to the whole shoddy affair is a deep sense of sadness at the losses and the human idiocy that led up to it. Let's face it, those fundies flying the planes weren't, in a clinical sense, mentally impaired. They were just doing what they thought was the right thing, and in all honesty, there's things I'd be prepared to kill and die for. I like to think I've at least made more of an effort at having a sound and rational basis for it, but it's not so very different at the heart of it.

Well, I prefer to keep the term "conspiracy theorist" reserved for the tin foil hat crowd. Just like I prefer to keep the term "atheist" to simply mean lack of belief in any presented claim of divine existence and nothing more what so bloody ever. Miring things up in semantics is never very productive.

There is a reason for not just rushing out of there. Call it a matter of good style. The only way the US can possibly claim victory in that mess is to get a stable Iraqi state going, with a competent police force and army. As far as I've understood, the plan is to have all combat troops out in a year or so, but maintain a large presence in the form of advisors and instructors. Imagine if they just ran off with their tail between the legs and Iraq crumbled, becoming a second Afghanistan. Then we'd have to come charging in there again pretty soon to root out whatever network has decided to shout Allah'Akbar and blow something up this time.
I do feel vaguely optimistic that they're moving in the right direction and that something good might come out of it. To put it this way - if any administration could ever accomplish it, it'd probably be this one.


Let's do like this - we'll just keep on going, and when someone decides they want the thread back to discuss penises, we'll move over to a new one.

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I'm sorry. I couldn't help myself. You know I <3 u.

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WOAH! WOAH! WOAH! WOAH! woah WOAH!!

I was just kinda kidding about the dicknoses (Shwitzgarr) plus, I WAS stoned, but when you talk about us torturing/killing thousands and millions of "Innocent brown people," brah! We are giving them 3 full-course meals after we bust 'em planning Jihads! We don't even treat pot dealers that nice.

Obama is giving the gray bearded mother fucker a "Fair trial" when he's damned guilty! My only guess is that Obama is sending a "Message" which basically says, "You fuck with us and 10 months later after we bust ya, spent a lot of money and time, we MIGHT execute you, with a proper burial, lots of flowers, fully paid for; of course. And a creed song of your choice to be played at your funeral!"

To be honest I just got pissed, while I was stoned, over the clit cutting or whatever. I get hyped up over terrorism, because it fuckin' pisses me off. But yeah w/e about this "debate" (nor need I explain why it is not really a debate, hence it already explained been has did)

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Not very mature either way. It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.

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I completely agree with you, which is why I tend to take notice when they actually discuss or reveal something which seems to have weight. I rarely listen to their analyses of these matters, but the "official acknowledgement" of them is enough to satisfy me.

I tend to get my news from alternative sources, but many of these have a solid core of tinfoil, so I guess it's the same problem we have with the mainstream outlets - sifting through the bullshit haha.

All I'm gonna say is this: I have an erection with your name on it (in big print). Take what you will from that, preferably via a slurping, sucking action.

MetalTabs is truly one of the strangest forums I've read, simply because of how quickly and smoothly the discussion can shift from circumcised midgets on tricycles to something like the horrible massacre on 9/11, with the required change of tone and proper sentences and everything!

This is where things get murky - we're left with a massive hole in the available evidence, and we have to speculate to fill the hole as best we can, in this case by imagining the thought processes of certain groups. My view is that, if there was a conspiracy, they didn't really fuck up by publishing/declassifying these documents. The reason I say that is because I've yet to hear anyone on the mainstream media discuss the PNAC document, and everyone I speak to about it for the first time has never even heard of it (nor indeed PNAC itself). It's "hidden in plain view", as the old saying goes. With regards to the Northwoods document, it was declassified after 40-odd years, which is the law in the U.S. They didn't really have a choice about it - secrecy has a shelf life.

There are documents which were laying in the National Archives for much longer than this which proved that Bush's grandfather, Preston, was involved with laundering Nazi money and was aiding the development of the Nazi party in America. He was even charged with these things and ordered to cease trading with the enemy. These documents were found by accident when an author was rooting around in the Archives looking for material for his book. When they were uncovered they had a very brief mention in the media, and that was the end of it. The Bush family's finances are at least partly made up of Nazi loot, and no one seems to give a shit haha. This is what I mean by "hidden in plain view" - it's there to be found, but you have to want to look for it first.

The attacks were very difficult to watch, especially after the 900th action replay. The hardest thing I've experienced about the events other than watching people jump to their deaths is listening to the phone calls from people trapped within the buildings, and in 2 of these calls in particular you can hear the beginnings of a scream just as the building starts to disintegrate around them. It felt like a punch in the stomach the first time I heard that shit.

I agree (again!). I don't enjoy being called an atheist. Like I said a few RTTs ago, I don't believe in unicorns either, but no one has a label for that lack of belief. It's bizarre to be seen for something you don't do or don't believe in. Using that logic the labels should never really end, because there are far more things we all disbelieve than believe haha.

Assuming Obama's desires for Iraq to be authentic, I agree that simply leaving might not be the best option for America's image, but I'm not so sure that it's the best option for the Iraqis. Yes, their country is a fucking mess right now, but they're not imbeciles; they can make their own way and rebuild their own political and social systems, certainly without puppet politicians being installed by the West like Saddam was. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see, because it's extremely difficult to try and forecast what will happen, given the sheer unpredictability of the Iraqi resistance and the religious fundamentalists who will no doubt be vying for control.

The sanctions placed on Iraq in the early 90s killed over a million Iraqis, half of them children, and only served to prop up Saddam and his brutal regime for the following decade during which he enjoyed the weapons he was sold by the U.S. and Britain, with Rumsfeld himself paying him several friendly visits. The current war has killed over a million civilians (according to The Lancet), and their oil is being milked by invaders and the rebuilding of their infrastructure being contracted out to friends of the invaders. If I was an Iraqi the last thing I'd want is further involvement in my affairs by the West.

Haha sounds good. It's a bit early in the morning for me to start getting into nano-thermites and executive orders, so we'll pick this up later!

Generally, the guilt of an accused prisoner isn't decided upon until after the trial. Land of the free, indeed! As for the Guantanamo inmates - the number of actual terrorists warehoused there (as opposed to goat herders and teenagers) is pretty low. However, after the innocent ones leave they're most likely no longer "innocent". If I was unjustly kidnapped, tortured and denied basic human rights for months or years I would most likely go back to my war-torn country and pick up a weapon.

And I'm sure the black salves who were dragged over there in boats, packed like sardines in a matchbox, were extremely grateful for the daily meals and sleepin' ditches after a hard day's unpaid toilin'.

I don't think being stoned is really a good reason to start attacking people. I thought that shit was supposed to mellow you out haha. If you had been drunk that'd be understandable!

Well, what can I say. Metalheads have to be able to hold the type of apparent intellectual paradoxes that would make a quantum mechanic hand in his tool box and go jump off a cliff in an acute sense of inferiority complex.


Actually, the thought processes of those kind of people is a hot area of study. Here's a good introduction to it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpImeYCZKBk
I've spent quite a bit of time getting aquiantanced with this kind thing, not least because I've had it screamed in my face a few times. I you really wanna tick me off, you'll say "oh no, no muslims have any honor cults, nonono, there's no muslim groups that have brought that shit here, that's just racist talk". Gah, my fair Northlands and it's Western civilization is being sullied by those fucking baboons. I will never lay my vote for SD (our modern version of the Nazi party), but I have to admit that I understand those who do.

Hm, that is an angle one would have to take into account. Come to think of it, that might be the way I'd go about it, when i reflect over my past experiences of being in charge of things. But as I've said, I haven't seen enough to actually think so.
Executive orders is OK. That I can handle. Nano termites, on the whole, no. It's just... no.

Oh yea, the handling of Iraq - and Iran - back then, that's another thing you shouldn't get me started on. If you ever wanted a picture perfect example of the word "ugly", forget hunchbacks in bell towers, they're well shaped dancer girls compared with that shit.

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The 'Bush knocked down the towers' crowd? They've been starving for years now. It's just too hard to make it seem like the people who can't do shit right managed to pull off such a complex conspiracy. Even the people who believe it can't believe it for long, if they have to think about it.

Though I'm sure there will always be people who believe that it was an inside job. But if we were capable of that, we'd be capable of something that could end the pointless wars that resulted.

I'll be watching that later

While I agree with you on your characterisation of these religious nut-jobs I feel that it's a bit unfair to tar all Muslims with the same brush. The majority of them seem to be like the majority of Christians, Jews and all of the rest of it - fair-minded and peaceful, if deluded. Unfortunately for them being fair-minded doesn't really put them on the map like violence and oppression does for their psychotic colleagues.

I guess this is a good place to start - the thermite/nano-thermite element. I assume from your response to it that you are aware of it and the studies done on it, so I suppose my question to you is basically this: what part of this area of study doesn't work for you?

For those who don't know what we're talking about, dust samples from the WTC which were collected soon after the collapses by civilians (the motivation for which was apparently a desire to have a souvenir of the day, and in one case to be used in art) were sent to independent scientists for study when the whole 9/11 truth thing started to take off. The scientists, using samples from different people, found the same foreign materials in each. There were 2 basic things in these samples that shouldn't have been there given the official explanation for the collapses. The first were numerous spheres of metal, roughly about the size of ball-bearings (with variation, of course). The official studies of the collapses mention these spheres and their chemical make-up, but don't try to explain their presence in the dust. The chemical make-up shows them to be iron-rich, and their very appearance suggests that they were droplets from molten steel, were flung through the air (presumably during the collapses) at which point surface tension formed the droplets into spheres and then they solidified in that state. The temperatures required to melt steel far exceed those reachable by office fires and jet fuel (which is essentially kerosene - an ordinary hydrocarbon) so something else must have melted this steel. Which is where the second foreign body comes into play.

The second thing found in the dust samples were little chips which resemble paint chips. They are red on one side and grey on the other, and the red side is very interesting. Firstly, it has pretty much the same chemical composition as thermite (an incendiary) but more importantly it is nano-engineered. One of the criticisms of this study is that the ingredients of thermite are easily found in office blocks, so the presence of such chemical compounds doesn't really prove anything (I disagree strongly with that claim, but I'll concede it for now). However, nano-engineering is extremely high-tech business and doesn't happen by accident. A nanometre is one billionth of a metre, and on this red chip we have grains and plates in uniform formation. The grains are about 100 nanometres and the plates are about 10 nanometres in size. This technology is very new, and another interesting dimension of this is that the people who were at the forefront of developing this technology were later drafted to investigate the WTC collapses on behalf of the Bush administration. This should be investigated given that they don't even mention these chips or the fact that they're nano-engineered.

When the red side is ignited it exhibits the behaviour of an incendiary, not of paint. For further reading about this I highly recommend this layman's version of the study:

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/...ade_simple.html

That website [http://911research.wtc7.net/] is probably the only 9/11 website I'd actually recommend to people, so have a leaf through it!

I was quite cagey about this study, given that the sceptics would constantly make the perfectly valid claim that if these findings were genuine they would have had it peer reviewed in an independent journal by now. Well, it just so happens that it has been peer reviewed. Here are 3 different independently peer reviewed papers which discuss this material and other elements of the collapses:

http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/c...0001/7TOCPJ.SGM
http://www.springerlink.com/content/f67q6272583h86n4/
http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/c...01/35TOCIEJ.SGM

To me, this lends their claims a certain legitimacy that wasn't there before, and as such I'm inclined to listen a little closer to what they have to say. I also feel the same inclination when I look at this website:

http://www.ae911truth.org/

At the time of this post there are 970 signers of the petition calling for a new investigation, and these signatures are from people who are licensed architects and engineers and who have been presented with evidence of explosives being used in the buildings. While something doesn't become truth by mass propagation, to butcher a quote from Gandhi, 970 professional architects and engineers are enough to get my attention.

Anyway, that's a basic outline of the nano-thermite stuff! I think it's fascinating, even if it turns out to be bollocks. But at this moment in time I'm having trouble finding a non-conspiratorial explanation for this material being there. The presence of this material isn't the only evidence which suggests explosives and incendiaries were used, but I'm sure we'll get to that!

If one believes that there was a conspiracy then the fact that we have evidence in support of it shows that they didn't pull it off very well, so their incompetence cuts both ways. I'm not so quick to point the finger at the Bush administration though, because all previously acknowledged psychological or black operations usually took place without the figureheads of the administration knowing about it (and Bush's reaction in the classroom that day would seem to verify it). As it stands now I don't know what I believe, because I don't feel that things have been investigated properly or openly enough and these lingering loose ends are no doubt what fuels the conspiracy theorists' claims. The repeated attempts to cover things up (be it incompetence or otherwise) makes me very suspicious, as does the insider trading which was never explained except when the 9/11 commission said "these people have no conceivable ties to Al Qaeda, therefore they weren't investigated".

It's a fucking mess, that's fo' shizzle.

Oh please don't think I'm lumping all muslims in with that bunch! Hell, before I started university I spent my days in the circles of dancers, actors, musicians, poets and other loose folks like that, and believe me, you wouldn't last long there if you'd cling to those kind of idiocies. However, that doesn't change the fact that there's loads of women getting treated like cattle right here in my country, and that the basis of it is religion and honor cult. Like I said, don't get me started or we'll be off at a tangent before you know it.

Hm, I actually wasn't aware that there had been any peer reviews done on that. I'll have to sift through it and see how it looks. However, fact is also that so far I haven't seen anything to convince me that those nano structures are actually for real. Perhaps I'll change my views after reading this, we'll have to see.
However, to preemptively bring up another point in connection with this. Perhaps you could explain to me why people persist in talking about the melting point of steel in this discussion? To illustrate my point:
Take a paper. Take a lighter. Caress the paper somewhere in the middle with a flame, not so that it catches fire though. Now, poke at the charred section. See how much easier it is to go through now than before you heated it?
You don't have to melt a steel beam to cause it to buckle and, most importantly, you certainly don't need to melt it to compromise the bearing properties of a truss structure. We can build good and stable buildings these days, but thing is, as you can easily tell from the most basic concepts of static analysis, when one joint gives way in a statically determinant structure, the rest follows like a folding card house. That's why we build with redundancy. However, when you drive a large aircraft right through the middle of it, not only are you going to weaken every single section of the structure, you'll also knock away a fairly large portion of it; and with the load on it unchanged, this naturally puts a bit of a strain on things.
It's also blatantly obvious to anyone with the least understanding of physics why the towers would fall down - which some say is a clear indication of a controlled demolition - and not topple. Which way does gravity point? Granted, a sky scraper isn't a perfectly homogenous, rigid body, but enough so to be approximated as one. Meaning that the center of mass is somewhere close to the geometric centre. Now, the variance in the direction of the gravity field working on a sky scraper can hardly be counted even in arcseconds and when the structure is giving way on both sides, there's really no physical reason for it to go anywhere but straight down. And seeing as the structure below it was built to handle Newton's first law and not the second, it's no wonder it caved in.

Yea, there's more than one loose ends that one feels they could have tied up just to keep their asses covered. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if many of those who do the actual work simply said "Fuck you, we got real work to do - such as stopping the terrorists trying to fuck up your comfortable style of living".

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And to think that the most serious RTT ever kicked off on dicks.

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This is something Richard Dawkins talks about a lot - the obligation we seem to have to respect faith and the behaviour it inspires. There are extreme liberal factions who accept the horrid things you listed as being out of their reach, intellectually/socially/whateverly, because they are being done in the name of religion which is "untouchable". Luckily you and I and every other half-rational person don't give a flying fuck about that

Steel didn't need to be melted, it's true. However, steel did melt, and office fires cannot explain this, and no official body has attempted to explain it.

Here's a video clip showing molten metal pouring from the South Tower minutes before its destruction:

http://www.livevideo.com/video/D24F...lten-metal.aspx

NIST (one of said official bodies) tried to explain it away as being aluminium from the plane, which obviously has a much lower melting point than structural steel. However, aluminium retains its silvery complexion even when molten. In fact, as you can see in this video made by NIST themselves, they were unable to reproduce this glowing orange effect using aluminium, even when burning embers were added to it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQdkyaO56OY

Listen to these firemen as they discuss what they saw inside the towers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQyIN6OTMyY

NASA thermal imaging of the rubble pile shows that temperatures far in excess of those reachable by open hydrocarbon fires were present, and these persisted for months after the attack:

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0429/

The existence of molten metal - in all three skyscraper collapse zones including WTC7, not just the Twin Towers - is something that needs explaining. Currently the most plausible theory I've heard (that is, one which accounts for all of the observed phenomena/data) is that incendiaries were used to melt the steel, and the dust sample evidence seems to add weight to that theory.

If steel had simply weakened and buckled, the collapse's initiation would have been more gradual and asymmetrical, but instead the buildings went from being perfectly motionless to tearing apart at 2/3 the speed of freefall acceleration. With regards to the South Tower's toppling, the block above the crash zone which seemed to tip and twist is converted into dust several seconds into the collapse - this means that this block was not available to destroy the rest of the building, and yet it was indeed destroyed.

Interestingly, NIST's investigation only went up as far as the point where the "buildings were poised for collapse", and didn't offer any explanation for what happened after that, which is the most important part of the whole sequence, primarily because it's during the collapse itself when the visual evidence of explosives comes into play (another topic!).

If 9/11 were indeed an inside job, what would be more important than uncovering that fact? Everything that has been going on in the world since 2001 has been built upon the back of these events. To me, without closure on this issue, 9/11 is pretty much the only thing that matters, perhaps not as much as the demise of the planet as a whole, but politically and socially. It was the day when "everything changed", and it was the beginning of the war on terror which is admittedly not going to end any time soon. I think it was Bush himself who characterised it as "the 100 years war". Never ending war, police state measures at home, the evisceration of civil liberties and the destruction and looting of the Middle East. The world's about to implode in a nuclear ejaculation and 9/11 is the catalyst.

Hahaha!

I'll have to request a recess to consider this data. Fuck, setting the goal of trying to be factually guided can be a real bitch.

On that other note, yea, cultural relativism sucks. The Western civilization, with all its faults and weaknesses is far superior to most others of today. Not saying all, not saying all, though I still offend a large part of the world's population with the statement.

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Hahaha no worries man, maybe this is a good opportunity to talk about something a little lighter for the time being!

The fact that we're free to say what we say without worrying about being stoned to death automatically puts our respective nations in the "more civilised" category (notice the scare quotes!). It doesn't matter how you slice it, it's a fact, and enjoying that fact shouldn't be equated with race superiority fantasies or arrogance or whatever. The flip side of this is that our "more civilised" way of life tends to be at the expense of others, generally those with a brown complexion. Slave labour (and outright slavery), outsourcing to sweat shops and using immigrants to build our infrastructures whilst paying them a wage on par with that of 2 turnips per day can't be ignored or downplayed in its importance to the West's wealth/power/way of life. The West was built out of the sweat and blood of aforementioned brown folk, and like any other corporation (and it is) it clearly exhibits those characteristics of psychopathy which makes it so successful.

So, what's everyone's opinion on circumcision?

Yea, lets.

I think it's a great idea, I do it all the time. What you do is, you just nip over to the maternity ward of some hospital where you haven't been before, collect a few cuddly toddlers - a few rags, a bottle of chloroform and a stout branch is usually enough to handle both noise and nosiness - and then run off home to the scalpels. I have this little idea of mine, to use it as wall paper in my bedroom and shoot a fan movie on the theme of Hellraiser there. I know where I can get half a kilometer of chains and a few hooks, good as new, at practically cost.

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OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!

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Could somebody please sum up the last page?

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yeah. its a massive TL;DR (too long didn't read) for all us other cavemen here.

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White folks is rich and brown folks is their lackies.

I just can't figure out how all those Germans that came over here a few hundred years ago that were in slave-like conditions to get here ended up being brown people.

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Amadeus called me a punk-assed ho, and I was like "aw HELL no!" and he was all "you'd best believe it, bitch!" and I was like "son, you illin' all over the show!" and he was all "get up out my face, son!" and I said "son!" and he was like "wasssuuuuuup?!".

That lasted for 3 and half pages, and I think it's safe to say that I was the victor. No wait...which one of us said "son, ya mama got a peg-leg with a kickstand!"? Whoever said that won.

LEAVE THE BABY'S PENIS ALONE!

What baby? Paddy, what are you talking about?

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I think Paddy ate beans again and now the gas which is flowing through his guts ended up in his brain.

And please shorten your posts...You know just imagine, you`re coming straight from school thinking "Urrrrrgh fuck ya MetalTabs" and then this endless posts are there...I cried

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I'm with Gomli on this one.

I have CNN.com if I'm looking for political articles!

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Point taken

I did have beans today, actually. Maybe you're onto something Gomers!

well I have to admit I enjoyed your summary. It made more sense that way

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I think pretty much every debate, no matter what the topic, can be summed up in that way. We're all ultimately just trying to impress onlooking girls.

I've been watching every South Park episode again over the past week or so, I just finished the chin-balls freak show episode haha. Whateva, I do what I wan'!

Fuckin' still can't believe that it took me until 2005 to get into this show.

I don't claim it to be as much of a phenomena as most will, but it has it's episodes. I must say that I can't get over the first "Towelie" Episode.

If you know who Towelie is, then you will fucking love this: Real Life Towelie Caught On Tape

btw I love green tea.
I'm drinking some roasted green tea right now
crazy shit... and it's awesome.

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I have been doing this also, somewhat. The best episode by far is "Fat Butt and Pancake Head" (season 7)

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HAHAHA!! That's fucking uncanny!! And that fish was friggin' weird looking, too. Looked like old man dentures.

I think South Park can be a little bit too blatant in terms of its preaching, and the later seasons are of significantly lower quality than the early ones (which is understandable) but I can honestly say that it's my favouritestest cartoon. I was more into Family Guy a few years back, but I'm starting to find Seth MacFarlane and his work to be insufferable. Have you watched the Family Guy spin-off toon, "The Cleveland Show"? The fucking guy lives next door to a bear, for fuck's sake

Hahaha taco kisses!! I think the freak show episode is part of season 6, so it'll be a few days before I get to the Ben Affleck spooge

Thanksgiving morning on HGTV they had a show about Extreme Log Homes. The narrator said it was in South Park, Colorado, and yes, there really IS a South Park, Colorado. What I thought added to the humor was the people building the house were the Simpson's.

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Next you'll be telling me there really is a Dawson's Creek! OH GOD PLEASE LET THERE BE A REAL DAWSON'S CREEK!

There's a guy I used to vaguely know here whose last name is Deniro, because his father - and this is for real - legally changed his name to Robert Deniro. I don't know what his name was before that. What a waste of an anecdote that was.

I think it's time for the next episode of South Park, which is (checks DVD box) Fun with Veal! I really like this season because Butters gets lots of air time

Yeah. I'm actually not too far from there, relatively speaking. There are better places to go in this state anyway.

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Yea lol...The creators of south park went to Columbine high school in Colorado if I'm not mistaken.

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That explains a lot. I hadn't heard that.

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Hung out with the ol' Tmfreak this weekend. Just had some beer and wings along with some Saturday football. Played some guitar for a while after that. I wound up falling asleep at about 10pm hah. Then again, I was up since about 2am.

How's everyone else doing? I'm sore as hell after one day of a class taught by SEALs. They PT'd us till a few people puked.

Everybody's doing everybody else. Nothing's changed. Sounds like you had a fun time with Tm as well as the SEALS.

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I'm sick to my stomach. My best friend's son is studying to be a minister and has an old country church that's several hundred years old. He was going into praise team practice and saw that the church had been tp-ed and egged and that the church mail was all over the place and opened. He wasn't happy about that, but when he walked into the church he was devastated. Whoever did it destroyed the inside of the church. Ripped Bibles and hymnals. Destroyed the alter, pews, and smashed the stained glass window over the alter. They wrote vulgarities and 666 all over the walls in red marker. They put cigarettes out in books. They tore up pictures that were downstairs that were over a hundred years old. And they peed all over the place. They must have used candles because there was wax dripped in a lot of places. This is the second church in that area they hit.
I hope they find out who did it, prosecute, and find out who tampered with the mail and ship them off for a very long time with fines they'll take 2 lifetimes to pay. It makes me sick. He's in his early 20's and was really getting a great youth following there. Someone's gonna be bragging if they don't get some prints or DNA off something first.
It's such a small burg I just can't imagine something like that happening there.

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This is MetalTabs, no offense to you or your friend but a destroyed church probably won't change anyone's mood here. I could be wrong.

I was wondering what happened to that guy.

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You are. It definitely lifted mine.

OH SHIT

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Take it you're in Virginia?

Nothing new here, same old shit.

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Fuckin bored enough to be lurking here again.

sucks for you

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what'd i miss

nothing

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i watched a full hour of that.

EDIT:

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Just reread this particular RTT. Quite a nice sumup of MetalTabs' state right now. (Paddy Paddy dicks politicis Dystopia Paddy Dicks Circumsision Paddy)

I can't say I don't like it.

+ am I the only one who always feels slightly disappointed (hey that word shares a surprising amount of letters with Dystopia) after clicking "User CP"?

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I just finished watching it. Fascinating stuff, although I have to criticise the weight that Dawkins and Thompson and others give to religion as being the primary motivation for suicide attacks and indeed terrorism in general. As one member of the audience asked during the Q&A, if suicide bombing and martyrdom necessarily follow from Islamic fundamentalism why then was there no history of suicide bombing in Iraq against Saddam's regime prior to the occupation? Thompson's reply was "I don't know". To me it's pretty obvious why; while religion certainly helps prepare people mentally for such attacks it's not the cause - the occupation is the cause, as it is in Palestine, and the 9/11 hijackers themselves said that their reason for the attack was because of the military bases on sacred soil in Saudi Arabia, and so on.

Religion doesn't help matters, but without the political/social injustices (however we might perceive them as outsiders) these people would never do what they do. Why would they?

I thought it was interesting that he brought up Bobby Sands and the hunger strikers. I wasn't expecting that haha. I'm an atheist but I find it extremely irritating when people make lazy assumptions about religion, such as the one made by an audience member about Catholicism. She said something to the effect of "they can confess whatever they do and then everything is fine again". It doesn't work that way. If you confess to murder the priest doesn't say "thanks for telling me, God has forgiven you, catch ya later!" he'll say "in order to receive absolution you must go to the police and admit what you've done, and face the music, and then we'll talk". It's all a load of shit to me, but if you're gonna attack something don't be intellectually lazy about it!

I lold.
"Weeeeeeelcome to my church!!! Sodomize my cross! For it`s now your EXISTENCE!"

Edit: Yeah after I was actually really ill the last week (not my stomach, that fucker still get on my nerves) I felt pretty well today and yesterday so I went to school again.
So today at about 16:30 a call came in for me and it was our offical office for health. The piece of my shit I gave to them was full of bacteria, induced by not well made meat. Not salmonella but an other bacterium. What the hell is wrong with me. I was never really ill and now from September on I was ill. Fuck that`s not good for my psyche

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MDM fans must listen to Mordium now.

Damn Gomers, you were so eager to have some lovely peppers and meat that you forgot to cook the fucker!

So now that they know what it is what are they prescribing for it, if anything?

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/dise...nfections_g.htm

Discus's undercooked food bacterium and how it can affect you.

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Eyyo my meat was always perfectly done and my peppers are godlike :mrgreen:
Ahh the bacteria infect is over I guess but I`ll give them another test of my feces just to be sure.
Now I got only my stomach problems lastring with me. Tomorrow I`ll have my first psycho-the-rapist visit.



I hate those kind of websites
Man I become a total hypochondriac in these days.

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Actually a .gov website...biatch!

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Campylobacter is a bacterial pathogen that causes fever, diarrhea, and abdominal cramps. It is the most commonly identified bacterial cause of diarrheal illness in the world. These bacteria live in the intestines of healthy birds, and most raw poultry meat has Campylobacter on it. Eating undercooked chicken, or other food that has been contaminated with juices dripping from raw chicken is the most frequent source of this infection.

That`s what I had. But I can`t remember eating any chicken back in the days

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Yea, out here in VA Beach. Will likely live here until early 2011..then who knows?

If whoever had raw chicken on a surface and it wasn't properly sanitized anything that got set where the chicken was could have gotten contaminated. It's even possible that raw chicken was sitting above something else you ate that was uncooked or at least unheated and transferred the bacteria.
If you use cutting boards, do you use glass or wood? Although wood can naturally buffer bacterias, meats should be cut on a nonporous surface and washed thoroughly before it's reused. A little scrub brush is handy if it's plastic and gets a little scratched up. Chicken's a pain to get off boards like that.
I hope you feel better very soon. As much as I learned about food safety, I never even thought of that I think due to the longevity of your illness.

Gomli, dear, I guess my prayers for the docs wisdom must have worked.

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Either that or stop molesting chickens with your dirty little boy's special love worm!

Well, you know how those people are that live in 3rd world countries. Anything that might move.

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Well basically they are "Morally driven," meaning yes, they believe that what they are doing is right and that they will go to Heaven with 72 virgins. I mean these people are fucked up. Last night when I was watching that (after a pause to take a *puff* break) I actually was ABLE to put myself in the state of mind of one those Muslim country people, as if I were one of those bearded fucks talking to my mustached son. "You see, my son, the Infidel Americans are way fucked up, and brainwashed. Those dumbasses think WE'RE brainwashed." And as I was thinking that, I literally wondered if we are brainwashed, and we kinda are by our own media, but that's ok cuz OH FUCK WE'RE BRAINWASHED BY OUR OWN DAMN MEDIA SHIT!!!!

Thing is though, they are SHELTERED from voicing their own opinions *cough* and we are not QUITE as sheltered, but if you go about voicing your opinion the WRONG way in the wrong place then shit can happen.

I hate typing my thoughts. Why can't people just read my thoughts without me having to do jack shit? I mean its fuckin' bullshit is what it is! *farts and mokes some wee*

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But that was the point I made - although their fanaticism "enables" them to do horrible things to innocent people these horrible things weren't really happening that much prior to the occupation. And as the lecturer himself said, the people who carry out suicide attacks and hijackings are almost always intelligent, educated and show no signs of psychopathology. They're not whackos, in other words. They became primed for killing when what they saw as injustice was visited upon them or their country (you may or may not agree with their assessment of the situation, but that's how they see it), and given their lack of weaponry, tanks, planes and holding cells said killing involves guerilla tactics, the most extreme form of which is suicide attacks. Religion oiled the gears of destruction after the fact.

Coming from N. Ireland I can't really deny the fact that, for certain groups, religion is an apt reason for killing for certain people, brutally. People would quite happily kill you for simply being Catholic/Protestant back in the day, but this was something that emerged later in the conflict (later on the scale of the 800 years it's been going on). The original movement to fight the British occupation was started by Protestants, Wolfe Tone and Robert Emmet (anti-Britishness in Ireland is now generally attributed to Catholics). So, at first the conflict was designed to "oust the occupation" with no mention of religion, and it morphed into pure sectarianism later. Religious bigotry/inspired murder needs something to get the ball rolling which, for the folks in the Middle East, would entail carpet bombings of their villages and the killing of over a million civilians (so far) by the West, and in Palestine the humiliating and brutal Israeli road blocks and bulldozing of houses and indiscriminate shootings and missile bombardments.

I don't condone what they do, but I'm not going to make the mistake of dismissing their motives as purely delusional God-sent commands or irrational hatred of entire peoples.

Haha if you smoke enough weed you might one day believe that you are able to transmit your thoughts directly into other people's brains!

Does anyone else thing arguing over the internet about a topic you have no power in is stupid?

White chocolate

Who's arguing?

Using that logic why bother posting here at all? Sometimes discussion is an end in itself. It's enjoyable, it's enlightening, it's interesting, in the same way that discussing the production quality of an album or the guitar skills of your idol is enjoyable if completely pointless.

White chocolate is the dogs bollocks, except in Korea where white chocolate is the dressing.

You seem to be running in loop there, Paddy. Isn't it more reasonable to assume that while Saddam's reign in many respects were brutal, he was a muslim and a lot of the Iraqis really weren't all that opposed to him; whereas when the US came stampeding into the area, the fundies got their biggest wish - a fight with the big Satan on their own home turf? A reason to issue a call to arms to the faithful?
Also, what if you'd removed the religious component altogether from the conflict in your country? On that note I should point out that for example Dawkins has made it very clear, when questioned, that he do not believe religion to be the prime cause of those troubles.

Of course, the other factors you point should certainly not be dismissed. But the important point that Thompson, and me for that matter, want to bring attention to is the fact the religious fundamentalists committing horrible acts of terrorism are not, in general, nut jobs. They sincerely believe that what they're doing is a good thing, and that they have an eternal paradise waiting afterwards. Without those notions to complicate matters, it might perhaps even be possible to find some sort of honorable close to what I here lumped together as "the other factors". As it stands, it seems the only language we can communicate with is violence.



Now, get drunk and set fire to things. I was just accused at youtube for being a collective of deviant midgets. Sure, it's outrageous and all that, but what I really like to know is how the hell he found out.

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I don't think there were many Iraqis who enjoyed Saddam's brutal rule, regardless of the fact that he's a Muslim. Muslims killing other Muslims is what forms the core of the violence, as Thompson pointed out. So Saddam's being a Muslim wouldn't have mattered much.

The difference between fighting Saddam in their own country and fighting a foreign occupation is that the occupiers had weaponry and financing (and more importantly motivations and selfish designs for their country) which they didn't have, whereas an internal Iraqi conflict would be a completely different ball game with different rules and different attitudes and different motivations.

Martyrdom involves dying in a just war against an enemy, and while being the wrong religion might be enough of a warrant for some to commit murder the majority of those who engage in these activities wouldn't do what they do without there first being perceived injustice.

The Northern Irish troubles wouldn't disappear if religion disappeared, but the playing field would have a very different gradient. Religion has become a tribal identifier here, and that tribalism is the main problem, not religion. In-group thinking and the fear and mistrust of the out-group is what needs to be addressed, and unfortunately religion is a very easy, very comfortable and very "visible" way of drawing those lines in he sand, but beyond that bigotry lies social and economic and discriminatory factors which would exist and cause distress and violence with or without religion.

That's what I found the most fascinating about this lecture; that these people are pretty much normal, and even above average in terms of their intelligence. I agree that the injection of religion into their minds is a major factor in their behaviour (mainly the "enabling" of it), but I stress again that I seriously doubt that without the wearing down of their dignity and the death and destruction wreaked by brutal occupation they would be significantly less inclined to strap a bomb to their stomachs and head into town. In other words, religion is little more than the oil for the gears of mass murder - the gears already existed and would have chugged along all the same.

Hahahaha! A collective?? So, a midget A-team of sorts?

EDIT: Sorry for another long post guys...maybe we should start a debate/politics thread for this stuff, Amadeus.

Yeah for the bacteria thingy
Most bacterias get erased by temperatures above 70C° right? So when I cook it the bacteria from the wooden cutting surface are getting elimintaed too I guess, eh?

Dance dance whereever you may be
I am the Lord of Dance lalalalalalalaaa


Uhm....uh....FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU YOU !

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Don't forget that there's a divide within Islam that's taken about as seriously as the divide between Islam and other religions, and that Saddam was on the side of it opposed to most of the violent fundamentalists. But he had a stable regime, something we've been unable to establish thus far, and it's easier to get up to all sorts of mischief without one. As demonstrated.

So I'd say that, while it is the presence of America that was the catalyst, it was more for the pure opportunity of the thing than the ideology.

Quoted.

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You know what lives in our guts? E. coli. Tons and tons and tons of E. coli. In our gut, they are usually harmless (in fact, somewhat beneficial due to Vitamin K production). E. coli is used a TON in science labs for experiments. We spent almost the entire semester playing around with E. coli in the lab, and we are just undergrads.

The only thing that makes E. coli dangerous at all is that it takes up DNA fragments of other, parasitic bacteria and viruses, which it then incorporates into it's own genetics. Through this, it can uptake DNA strands from a harmful bacteria and thus assume the dangerous qualities that make that particular bacteria harmful in the first place.

Imagine if we could do that? Imagine if we could just punch a fucking bird in the face and grow feathers? Or eat a rattlesnake and grow venom ducts? That would be so fucking awesome. E. coli have it made and they don't even know it.

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What about the "User CP"?

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CP = child porn.

It actually only works if you're a mod, and the link goes to the user's brutally embarassing and immoral videos their parents made of them as a kid at their most vunerable, naked moment. Any time we want! Still waiting for Reqtum's, though.. he isn't old enough yet. There is such a thing as too young, ya know.

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Someone should check out the gear and recording section and help me!

It's about time we do some posting outside of chit-chat.

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There's something outside of chit-chat??!

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Yeah dude!!!! They have tabs on here too!!!!!!

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Does anybody here know what the relative minor of C sharp is?

Many thanks in advance

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uhhhh it has five flats......so, ummm Bb minor??

I'm not really hot with theory but I'm pretty sure that's right

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it would be Bb, because "hurr hurr they shareing the same notes in the scale" or at least pretty close.

I always thought that a relative minor couldn't have another relative minor, but the relative major of C# for sure would be A.

except I haven't taken a music lesson in years, so maybe thats wrong.

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So... fucking... bored ... must not ... quit ... good paying ...j-j-j-jo... blaarrgg.

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The relative major of C# minor (which you'd call Db) would be E Major. Is that what you're talking about?

And @ Blitz, relative minors/majors are just a m3 apart. The relative minor will always be a m3 down and the relative Major will be a m3 up.



Just learn to develop lengthy daily thought processes (lasting how ever many hours you work). This will make time fly by!

Or just pick a stupid thing to memorize, like a bunch of chemical names for drugs you like. And then write a song in your head using chords based off of the order of elements in the chemical you chose.

... okay I guess I'm pretty bored too.

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Dear Google,
All these years you have helped me fine what I truly needed on this big world we call the Internet. When at times I needed to find the answer for a take home test, you were there. When at times I needed to find an open source program because I couldn't afford the real one, you were there. Also, if you didn't find said open source program, you would find the real one for me with a key generator. When at times I needed free porn for my little Oscar Myer, you showed your support by helping me find that ftp server with those huge amounts of glory hole videos. You failed some, by giving me 2 girls one cup, 1 guy 1 shattered cup, bestiality horse video where the girl drank a bowl full of it's baby making yogurt. But to the little guy, you didn't, he just shrank a little until you gave it the natural sexual videos. You were there to help me past those long nights of sleeplessness, by typing in random thoughts and words just to see what would pop up. During said searches you made me realize why I don't see nut cases walking the streets anymore, they all have joined the e-army to fill the internet full of the useless garbage no one would take from them in real life. To these things I give thanks GOOGLE.

But today I must officially say, "FUCK YOU". This new internet phenomenon you have started. Don't act retarded son, you know. The new advertising script/database you have managed to put together so the world can use it on their websites. You have taken over Youtube, Myspace, Stickam, Redtube. All of my favorite sites to watch streamed music, watch streamed videos, and chat cam service. I'm so tired of the attempt to get sold Progressive insurance by that annoying "Stephanie Courtney", whom couldn't even sell me her own lady flower if I was stone drunk at 3 in the morning. I'm tired of you trying to sell me on the new John Mayer album that's apparently in stores now, which I would have never known who he was without you. Why in hell would I want to buy a John Mayer album, when I'm streaming only the purest form of all metal acts such as, Throwdown, Meshuggah, Vital Remains, Pantera, and Coronor. Why would I want to buy a brand new full size Chevrolet 4x4 truck, in which you show me how much of a load it can carry and what kind of terrain it can handle. I'm online at 1 on a Thursday, why does that make you think I'm some sort of construction worker or farmer who needs said truck? Wouldn't they of all workers, be working at that time of day? Why do you keep offering me Viagra, trust me the Internet isn't even old enough to need Viagra, and the people who actually need it still read the newspaper and cannot even use a cell phone. No, I do not, and will not take the damn survey! You have now become to me the second worst thing on the internet, number one being the free but temperamental, and useless Microsoft express edition integrated development environments which must still be activated.

Google to you a happy day, and thank you for pimping out my web browser to so many pointless things I would never buy nor need.

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haha Pr0az I would sig that if it weren't so long

A perfect example of a long post that I can actually read through.

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70 C is about 158 F so that's close, but that would damage a wooden surface eventually. If you dry wood out it's gonna be more porous and absorbent. Heck, just use a plate of some sort that can be cleaned well. Just be careful with it. And make sure whoever is using the cutting board knows not to put meat on it. I've got 2 maple cutting boards my greatgrandpa made that are about 100 years old and they're still in good shape, but they were only used for breads, fruits, and vegies. I only use them for breads now and all I do is scrape them off. They never get washed so the oils in the breads feeds the wood.

Btw, what the heck meds did they put you on? You're getting a little too Irish there.
Dedicated to Paddy and Gomers - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2-vUDpJAIA

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I won`t cook a wooden surface I just meant the bacterias the meat gets from the surface will be erased too when I cook the meat at 70 C°.
Uhm I haven`t taken any meds the last 2 or 3 weeks so I guess it`s just a natural procedure.
And to the vid: "This video is not available because of copyright restrictions in your country."


Just started playing Quake Live again. All meh freinds wree deleetde""!!1!

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Oh poop. It was a video of "Only Sixteen" by Dr. Hook. An old song from the radio.
Most of them should be destroyed. I'm not certain they all would be, but that would be easy to find out. Just be more darn careful!! lol

"Uhm I haven`t taken any meds the last 2 or 3 weeks so I guess it`s just a natural procedure."
That's music to my ears. Welcome to my world, grasshopper!

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Hey... I'm one of you guys.

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I'll be playing again soon. Just as soon as school gets out.

Proaz, I love you.

Yeah epic post Pr0az!

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Sweeeet, first day of snow this year

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Bob texted me this morning that they were getting it. About 2 hours later we started and my friend over in western Ohio says it is there, too.

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lol faygs. we get the white stuff in late september

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Does fucking a girl in her leg-vagina count as sex?

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It`s also sex when you just show her your noodle

First snow we got in Octobree this year. But only one day and then everything was full of snowmud

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Nope. Does fucking a girl with just the tip count as sex?

I'm actually surprised that we have snow on the ground here, I was beginning to think we'd get it in January judging by how warm it's been lately.

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Yes, and if she's gonna get preggers it's more likely to be a girl. Girl sperm are more slow and steady than boy sperm so they're more apt to survive longer.

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I`m on gaybook now. Search for Björn Grabbet or send me the links to your sites

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found a Grabbe, but not a Grabbet

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