haha! They just don't give up.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5sSpgyJ1-0

LOL BB are there fatties in the Canadian army?

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Pics or it didn't happen!!

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Oh great, now I really do feel the need for some medication. Do you think watching some dumb redneck bitch get nailed by a bloody horse might actually be a good substituent for it (medication) though? Mix that one up with the midget stuff and you got yourself a place in Britain's got talent.

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Probably in the offices, as with any military. Our military is quite sophisticated amid the lame stereotypes.

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Haha, thanks Padraig I'm sure I'll be fine though. I did it cold turkey with Paxil and the withdrawal effects only lasted about 2-3 days I think.

Did you notice anything different when you finally got them out of your system? We're you more anxious or more depressed than when you were on them? Or was there anything else different? (good or bad)

Haha, I think most people on here are to some degree. We should contact Nomad and have him change the URL to mentaltabs.com

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rofl!!! thanks for making me laugh so much first thing in the morning amadeus!!

& blitz at one point when the forum moved i think he joked about naming it mentaltabs.com or something along those lines but fuck that was years ago you gonna have to ask the nomadic one yourself! lol

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Whoah, can't believe that shit happens over there. The racial stuff I mean, that's just crazy.

I didn't see much bullying in my highschool years, guess there wasn't much of it going on or I just didn't see it.

primary school was grand no probs they all knew me but when i moved into the town & started secondary school (another name for high school) i got bullied, the girl bullies left me alone but the boys didn't & my form tutor took their site! fuckin' bitch!! *sigh* i was bullied for the same reason most people are i was different & 'cause everyone knew me at primary school it didn't matter but when i transferred i was the only one in my class to that school. there was only 3 in my class in primary school (i went to a wee country primary school), me & two fellas, one of them was smart so he went to a grammar school & the other one their family moved away somewhere else.

i remember they had to put on two buses to take us home because the "two sides of the divide" were always fighting (boys) but i walked up to an area where i always got the bus & my friends got the bus from there, they were catholics & i stuck out like a sore thumb the only one in a protestant school uniform lol but no-one said anything to me, friends of my (catholic) friends were grand with me because they knew me it was just the fuck-wits at my school!!!

i had no friends of my own religion growing up but that didn't matter to me

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A fire truck just came blaring down my street and stopped in front of my neighbors house. His car was on fire...


wtf?

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I got stories out the ass about it man.....Police presents was very strong at my school.

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Tell him I'm sorry...I was drunk. A majority of car fires are caused by the owner not wanting to pay for the car anymore...

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@ blitz

& lol proaz we often had the army on school grounds (secondary school) my school was beside the courthouse & that is aside from them being about every 3 feet apart on the streets...

...ah fun times!! lol

i think that prob was the first time looking back on it when i fell in love with some of the english accents

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Haha

Manchester accents are awesome

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i don't like the strong manchester accent,

i love the accents from london & northampton areas lol there's also a few southern irish accents i love, the cavan, leitrim & limerick accents off the top of my head.

bf is from northampton area & i could listen to him talking all fucking day

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The Irish accent will get you the girls here in the U.S., sure you don't care about that bunny but paddy my friend you may need to stop by the states, might rid your self of some depression just think surely some where there's a midget bar you can hang outside of in the us.

I'm a midget in a nightclub I can't see
the choice of beers from the bums on seats
and the bruises around my ears are just getting worst
from the new pair of buttons and the watches and purses

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I am familiar with the London accent, but I can't say I've heard a Northampton accent.

I know a few people from Dublin, but I don't think I've heard any other Irish accent. I've met a few Taffy's too... that has to be one of my favourite accents of all time... boyo!

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taffy's!!! are you for real!! lol yeah okay one taffy accent really bugs the fuck out of me & it's that fuck jonathan davies that does rugby commentatory apart from that yeah they are not bad to listen too. i don't like the really strong dublin accent & the kerry/cork accents leave you thinking "wtf did you just say?" all the time!!

bf plays rugby with a few of them (taffys) & i'd say on hearing their accent side by side i def prefer his lol though in saying that anthony hopkins true accent fuck i could listen to him talk all day so erm yeah lol

& lol proaz when i was in toronto (myself & the other girls) had guys coming up to us in the street when they heard us talking it was v weird, that sorta stuff doesn't happen over here, well okay i have ran after a few men but for reasons lol usually to ask them about their tatts & boots (for a friend) but other than that lol

everyone loved our accents lol

i don't understand why people love ireland/our accents *shrug* but hey not complaining lol

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Haha I have no idea who he is But yeah I've always thought the South Welsh accent was terrific, especially since I saw Twin Town (clip below)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9kZ-rmWIOA

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Haha Padraig

I can't remember much about that period, but I do remember that for at least a while I felt a little better. I was convinced that the Efexor was adding to the problem. However, during the months that followed I started to slump even further (I wasn't taking any other pills). It was around about that time I went through the early stages of a breakup which didn't help...at all haha. Fucking nightmarish times. Soon after that I was put on my current pills, Zispin, and I've been on them ever since (from early 2005).

The Zispin is both a treatment for anxiety and depression, but are also a sort of sleeping pill too. They're to be taken at night, to help you maintain a regular sleeping pattern. Unfortunately for the designers of this drug I've learned that if you fight off the hour or so of extreme drowsiness you suddenly become energised and even mildly happy for a brief period. So, the pills have failed in that respect haha. When I first took it, I was mentioned extremely fucked up over a breakup, and I hadn't slept a single night leading up to the first pill. I would wake up at 3 or 4am and just start bawling, and I'd be wandering around downstairs in my dressing gown until morning broke, trying not to wake everyone else up, and this went on for a couple of months. Well, when I took my first hit of Zispin I slept like a corpse. The best sleep I've ever had in my life. I still remember waking up and being so impressed with my lovely sleep that for the early part of the day I didn't even get upset about the breakup.

A mistake a lot of people make when they're on any kind of medication is that they're sure that they feel better and don't need the pills anymore, or that the pills aren't helping much. Then they stop, and they realise that even though they still felt like crap, they now feel much more like crap having stopped taking the meds. I knew a guy who had cystic fibrosis, and when he felt great he'd decide to quit taking the meds, and then he'd suffer for it. So, don't underestimate the aid the drugs can give you...just make sure you touch base with your doc every week or two just to make sure you're doing alright, if you decide to quit! Although your doc will probably suggest that anyway

Shouldn't you be at mass right now? It's Sunday you disrespectful bastard

I'm pretty confident that I can get off these dreadful things. I had to start taking them at 15 because the depression got to a point where I was extremely anti-social. I would lay in my room all day and all night chainsmoking and just staring at the ceiling thinking about how much I didn't want to exist. After I started taking meds I got a bit better, but not much. So I lived for another 5 years taking the meds even though they didn't really make me happy, they just stopped my anxiety and suicidal thoughts, but I was still depressed.

Then when I was 19 I met my girlfriend and I got much better. Life wasn't bleak anymore, and I was actually happy to exist... which is why I'm confident that I don't need the meds anymore, because I don't think it was ever a neurological chemical imbalance. I'm almost certain it was just years of emotional problems caused by constant school bullying/harassment that started when I was five, and continued right through elementary AND high school (I've been a loner most of my life). I think after 10 years of taking that crap, my mind just couldn't deal with it anymore and that's when I crashed. But it's been 2 and 1/2 years now since I've met my girlfriend and I'm doing much better now (emotionally) and I'm actually much more social than I ever was... she's helped me so much. I'll be 22 in June and I want to start this new year of my life without meds.

But I'm not quitting smoking or drinking yet Fuck that, I need something

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I no longer go to mass or indeed call myself a Catholic; I paid the fine and got the fuck out of there! Going to mass was an incredible burden in terms of how it affected the depressed state, which is something my dad (who forced me to go mass like clockwork up until I was about 17) could never understand. It just left me filled with anger and despair every single week. Not just because of the rancid bullshit Christianity is saturated with, but also being an atheist and having to listen to an hour of retarded superstition and fairytales and being forced to take part in the rituals and eat the wafers and say prayers aloud, and sit and knee and stand when commanded, and worst of all give up my entire weekend after getting shit in school all week. Fuck me it pissed me right the fuck off. We either had to go to mass on Saturday evening or Sunday morning. So, if I chose to go on Sunday, I wouldn't be able to do much on Saturday because I'd have to go to bed early to get up early for mass the next day. If I went on Saturday evening, my Saturday was fucked and so was Sunday because I had school on Monday! haha

When I was in a relationship I felt 100% better, but when it ended I was 100% worse than I was before. Utilise your happier times with your woman to build yourself up and to have something to fall back on should the shit hit the fan with your relationship. You have to be able to be reasonably content with or without her, which is exactly what I was never capable of achieving haha. Also keep in mind that being a depressive means that things like breakups and bereavements will hit you twice as hard, so you gotta be prepared dude!

In primary school I was more on the "dishing out" end of the bullying. I wasn't a "bully" per se, but I was a pretty aggressive wee cunt. In high school someone started a rumour that I was a woman beater in primary school (ahh those 6-year-old woman beaters are the worst!) so I had a long queue of people lining up to take a swing at me, to assert their manliness haha. That fizzled out after a while, curiously after word got around that I had been boxing for several years. When I hit 3rd year the aggression vanished all of a sudden and I was the passive loner type from then on. I quit boxing around that time too. I think if the club was still active I'd probably consider going back again, but the coach was forced out of this town by some RIRA cunt who beat his teenage son with hammers. He reported it to the cops, and he was ousted for his trouble Cunts.

i have only seen one girl who was in my year since i've left that shit-hole of a school & that was only in passing she never stopped to speak to me just a passing "hello" & walked on yet any time i've met friends from that time who as i've said didn't go to my school they've always stopped to talk to me, *shrug* they can go to fuck as far as i'm concerned (the ones i went to school with).

haven't met any of the boys i went to school with since leaving & i wouldn't want too either.

---
i remember my friends going into mass on a sat night & meeting me in the pub afterwards lol that was funny!!

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what was the wrapping paper like? durable?

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Were the presents themselves strong or was the wrapping paper strong?

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I really hate to hear that people have had bad experiences with churches. I've been very blessed being a Methodist where I'm at. I did have qualms about one church I attended, but that wasn't as a regular member. Today the minister was rather humorous talking about reminiscing with his brother about when they were in college.He said some of the things they did were not only sins against God, but some were against the state of Ohio, too. Hmm, wonder what he meant by that? But then at the end of the service a letter was read by one of the board saying that the conference was sending him to another church in July. After church I told him he's going to be a tough act to follow. He's the first minister I've heard that inflected political as well as historical ideas into his sermons. Granted they all talk about history, but he got into text book type histories and their day to day lives and I love that kind of stuff as some of you know. Plus he's Scotsman and talks about the family feuds from time to time so that's fun. And he writes poetry.
Not all churches are bad news or full of rituals. Some are just glad you're there.

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Why do you have to attend a church to learn about history, hear stories/amusing anecdotes, or have friendly acquaintances? Surely you can do that elsewhere, minus the pontification haha.

Pontifiwho? I mean the biblical history and textbook histories that are the same thing. The people that lived then and what they did. Of course you can get history anywhere. It just seems to bring that particular aspect closer to me. I suppose the more an artist learned about DaVinci the closer they'd feel to him, too.

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that works for you lb that's cool i respect that & i won't disrespect you but the church & it's clergy done me no favours, so i left that faith when i could, like paddy i had to go, i left when i got confirmed & never went back (apart from funerals when i wanted to go to pay respect).

it's the "bible bashers" i don't like, as i've said before they (the clergy) don't seem to like the idea that a pagan knows the bible *shrug* that's their problem not mine!!

one time after talking for a few mins one of them told me i was going to hell, i laughed & told them "do you not listen to people?" he replied 'what do you mean?' i said "i told you i don't believe in the existence of your god, jesus or the teachings of your faith" he said 'yeah?' me "so i don't believe in the existence of hell or your devil either". he just looked at me said 'you can believe one exists & not the other', to which i replied "so you preach that do you?" he looked confused i just said to him "you're not worth it, figure it out" laughed & walked off!!

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I assume you're talking about closeness to Christ, in which case I don't think it'd matter which church I attended given that I'm an atheist haha. I don't even like the term "atheist", it's a bizarre state of affairs when you're given a label for something that you're not. I don't believe in unicorns either, but I'm not labelled an anticornisest haha.

I don't think the church I attended was much different to other Christian churches, it's just the blunt-force trauma of being made to attend a church every week without fail for the entirely of your childhood, and being scorned or dismissed for not believing in it or for having better things to do your time which gets to me. In an ideal world a child wouldn't be baptised and pushed through the various coming of age rituals of their parents' chosen church anyway - if someone said that their child was a communist or a Marxist or a voodoo child (ha!) you'd look at them like they had just farted on you. Clearly a child has no way of even conceiving of Marxist ideas, yet they're supposed to carry Christian/Jewish/Islamic ideas around with them as if they had any choice in the matter and any conception of what the hell it all means. If a person wants to adopt a religion when they're old enough to understand what it's about then fine, but it's a constant source of resentment for me that I never had the option and that it was thrust upon me before I could even speak.

I have a lot of bitterness about this stuff, but I don't think it's unjustified! haha

i think Ireland as a country as a whole has this whole thing of "you will go to church" mentality though paddy (imho)

my bf & his bro aren't even baptised! their parents thought it was wrong to force beliefs onto children before they are ready to understand & if they wanted to believe in something/be part of a religion when they got older they'd respect them for it.

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I respect your opinions just as I would about someone appreciating 90 degree weather more than I would. I still have lots of question about Christianity as I know it, but to ask questions about anything I think is pretty human. There's Christians I disagree with as far as what they believe. I studied with one group just to see what they were about and when I asked about a few things they were adamant about themselves being right so I quit studying with them. Years later I find out it must have been just that group's way because others aren't like that. I had enough though.

The fire and brimstone religions are a big turn-off to me, too. That would have driven me nuts.

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See, that's something I don't get. So are beliefs just not talked about with children or are they just talked about in general terms? We didn't discuss religion at home at all period, but my parents and grandparents said grace as the table for meals and when I went to bed. And they sang me songs from church. Nothing was really forced on me. It was just there. I think it's more the train up a child and he won't depart from it when he's old thing. I was never sure about my dad and religion because he rarely went to church. He did more when he found out about his cancer though. Lots of things about my dad changed then. But I found out shortly after he died that his father was killed falling off scaffolding when he was young so I can imagine that was a pretty traumatic thing.
Sorry if I'm babbling.......

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Unfortunately it's pretty much the same everywhere. There are of course more secular areas of the globe, but as a whole the world is a seething bubbling crock pot of religious belief. Ireland's religiosity is in a league of its own, for obvious bilious hate filled reasons; it's a tribal identifier, drilled into the new generations, used as a postnatal recruitment device for future bigots and the reinforcement of in-group paranoia.

England in general is more secular, but your boyfriend still seems to be the exception to the rule. His parents sound like they have the right idea!

Haha I'm not sure how to take that

This is one of the problems I have with pretty much all religions - the religious beliefs of today are vastly different than what they were 500 years ago, but the religious texts/tenets haven't changed one bit. So, clearly people as individuals and as a society are capable of picking the parts they like, reinterpreting the parts they don't, or just outright excising the parts that are just untenable. The old classic: Catholics used to believe that eating meat on a Friday was a hell-worthy sin. Now, no one gives a toss. So are all of those people from our past still in hell or were they upgraded when the Vatican relaxed its position on the matter? haha I'm not expecting you to defend the Catholic church, it's just an example of how things can change and therefore how dogma/holy books are only worth as much as we want them to be. God and his prophets have been removed from the equation; we're the editors and interpreters now.

So, ironically, I have more time for the fire and brimstone types than the softer, more passive ones. Clearly not in the literal sense, fundamentalism is horrid, but it's more an acknowledgement that they are at least consistent and adhere to the tenets of their faith as laid out from day one, and won't change "with the times" no matter how inconvenient that might be for them. That's not a criticism of you, L,B'XXX, you're admittedly still searching and questioning, which is great!

I personally think talking about religion is good and right (there is much we can learn about ourselves and how our minds work), and that it should be taught in schools etc., but there's a world of difference between discussing/learning about it than there is to practising it passionately and being told that it's real. We learn about religions other than our own in school, but don't feel compelled to take part in any of it. Likewise, the religion of our parents should be taught with equal directness and without the pomp and circumstance; the emotion and passion should be left out of it and the kids learning about it should never be forced to practise it.

lol lb you're allowed to babble *hugs*

it's not really talked about my experience was ever since i can remember going to sunday school & then to church afterwards, before i got confirmed i had to study revelations for just over a year that was great fun!! *sigh* we all got sections of the bible to study, i had to attend bible study as well (or church wouldn't have confirmed me). i hated it!! it's the fact that you're forced to go lb that if you said no you got dragged anyway!

they are just talked about in general terms at home anyway, but this is just my experience.

i totally plan on raising my own (if i have any) different from the way i was raised, me & bf agree on this & we have decided to raise any sprogs in the way that he was raised.

i don't blame my parents wasn't their fault they were rasied the same way they wanted me & my big bro to have a good spiritual foundation which i can't blame them for. we had this prayer we had to say at night "before i lay me down to sleep, i pray the lord my soul to keep & if i die before i wake, i pray the lord my soul to take". my mum recently said sorry for making us say that prayer, she said it wasn't right but at the time she was doing what she thought was right i told her not to be silly, it's okay.

you were saying about your dad lb, recently my mum has been talking to me she's stopped believing in the christian god & values. she's talking to me more about spirituality which is good good in the sense that we can talk openly about it. i do feel kinda sad though that some-one who spent just over 60 years involved in a faith stop believing. but it's her choice & i respect that.

thanks paddy (about bf) & good point about the whole teaching children about religion & beliefs comment

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As long as no one outdoes me and my babbling I'm happy

Exactamundo! It's either a case of our parents being so insecure in their own faith that they need to brainwash their kids into believing the same thing, or they're just control freaks who are passing on the resentment they had for their parents.

I agree and disagree with this. Yes, our parents were raised this way and it seems natural that they'd raise us in the same way, but if you and I were capable of thinking for ourselves and abandoning the religion we were raised in surely our parents must have had the same opportunity to do so, but they didn't take it. So, should we really be sympathetic? haha

L,B'XXX: Your experience with your dad, and his experience with his dad, is a tricky subject in terms of how religion has the power to console. I can't and wouldn't even think of denying the power it has to get people through hard times. If a child has a terminal illness and is worried about what will happen when they die, it's almost unthinkable - even for the most hardened atheist - to say to them "nothing will happen, because you'll be dead and you'll never see us again and we'll never see you again". Anyone and everyone would say "you'll be in heaven, with your granddad and your dog and you'll have all the candy you could ever want and there's no illness or pain or bedtime or bathtime." For me, that doesn't give religion any more credibility with regards to whether or not god is real or religion is correct, no more than me saying "voodoo spells make me happy" proves that voodoo is real.

The case of children aside, there are many things we have to accept as fact which are painful for us. Death, which is admittedly the biggy, should be no different. "The foundation of all mental illness is an unwillingness to experience legitimate suffering." I think this is applicable here - we use religious/wishful thinking to put a barrier between us and the cold hard reality that we're going to die, and I believe we suffer more as a result.

When I was talking about my dad I forgot the most important part of the scaffolding story. His dad was helping to rebuild a church when the scaffold collapsed and he fell.

bunny, thanks for the hug. That's basically the same prayer that I was talking about. My kids learned it from me when they were little. My eldest isn't keen on Christianity at all, but my younger is. The eldest will go if I ask him to for holidays, but the younger will pretty much go whenever his work or another activity wouldn't interfere.

Paddy, I don't like heat, but I wouldn't condemn someone that does. Does that make more sense?

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Ahh fuck you bitches I was up all night when i wrote that this morning at 8:00...so please do understand.

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Haha I know, but I wasn't sure if you were saying "I respect a difference of opinion" or that "your opinion is as trivial to me as a person's taste in weather"

Now that I think about it, it was a bit silly of me to even consider the second option! haha

I know how you feel mate, this is my alibi for everything I've ever posted here hahaha

I see where you're coming from on the church ordeal. I'm not Atheist, can't agree on that but definitely Agnostic. I was split between religions as a child part time Jehovah's Witness and part time Baptist...Freaking shit really drove me up the wall, mild difference's can separate the world....

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Never a truer word spoken!

no probs lb xxx

i had a friend who didn't believe in any faith really she was terminally ill with cancer, because she didn't believe in anything she had no-one to talk to about spiritual matters then she met me! we talked for ages on the phone she asked me what i believed in & i told her. shortly after she died her husband phoned me to thank me for all the talks i had with her, he said "it helped her she died that bit happier believing that there was something on the other side, she didn't know what but she was more content & interested in finding out" that meant a shitload to me.

she's dead 5 years now & thinking about that still brings tears to my eyes.

---

one of my friends who is also a pagan is married to a jehovah witness they have 2 children & are raising them in the "let them find their own path" mind-set.

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Sorry for your friend...Guess I can see where religion may give someone hope who laying down broken and tired. But do understand anything I ever say about religion here is not to even convince anyone to swing my way I do understand the hope and the glory one can get if religion is all he has left, especially someone dying or in jail for the rest of their life.


Good he's not like most of my family members...All i hear when they do/if they do come over is "Jehovah is gonna end this wicked system soon and blah blah blah"...I've asked the question more than ones of "Why are you so ready to go? Is it because your old and time is almost up for you? You know by thinking some almighty god is going to save you, don't you feel as if you have given up on this world and have stopped trying to make it a better place for the future generations?" Don't get me wrong I love my family & friends...but the whole religious right is what separates me from them in a BIG way, I'm a definite outcast for my belief system especially in my general area...not too many of us here in the bible belt.

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Did you ever have any connection with your Native American faiths/beliefs, Pr0az?

I understand your animosity towards the desire of staunchly religious people to see the "end times". They actively seek it, and don't mind the prospect of a nuclear war because it will fit in nicely with their various prophecies and their desire to reach heaven. It's like a sort of passive martyrdom. And where does this leave us? haha

they decided on that before they got married & decided to have children, kinda what i said earlier about what me & bf has talked about it's the same thing.

& yeah proaz he's really dead on too! but having your other half a different religion/faith from you will do that to you (imho) lol

& you seem to be coping pretty well proaz

& thanks proaz that sentiment means a lot *hugs*

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Great story, bunny.
PrOaz, I get so tired of people saying it's the end of times. They've said that for centuries. SHUT UP ABOUT IT FOLKS! Even in the Bible it says no one knows the time.

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lol lb the whole "the end is nigh stuff"?? yeah i know that really annoys me too

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Na I've read up on it man, but its pretty much as vague as other beliefs..from what I've seen real Native American faiths/beliefs are all but dead due to being converted on first contact by Europeans and such.

I'm convinced stick a whole bunch of people away from society for along time, tell them nothing about religion, give them a few years, and come back sure enough some religion will be made up about the whole after life when you die. I know it may make it easier to cope for the dying and for friends and relatives knowing their love one is off in a better place...

Me I've watched a farther die a long suffering death, A cousin get killed in a horrific car wreck, and many others and well I've felt bad for them but its never made me turn to religion because i just feel when you're gone you're gone and you don't have to put up with the day to day bullshit of life it self, no stress, no worries...you are in a better place (especially my dad who suffered a long time) What could be better?....Death to me and my stand point is easy....calm.

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I don't think he (or indeed I) are annoyed that they keep saying it's end times, it's that they would seemingly welcome it if it were in fact end times haha. You could almost say that it's a death wish of biblical proportions!

EL OH EL!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with you 101%. The problem with developing consciousness as a species is that we're now acutely aware of the fact that we're going to die. That, along with our [until recently] primitive understanding of the mind, superstitious/wishful thinking and general stupidity, you've got yourself the basis of religion.

Even animals show very basic religious thinking. An experiment done with pigeons in the 1940s proved this. A pigeon would be placed in a cage which had a chute through which a pellet of food would be given to the pigeon at [random] intervals. The pigeon would try to figure out the pattern, in its primitive way, and would develop superstitions as a result. For instance, if the pigeon happened to have been looking over its left shoulder when the food was released, it would believe that the act of looking over the shoulder is what caused it. So, it would repeat the action. It believes that some unseen force is responding to its very specific behaviour with food. It seems that the concept of randomness isn't built into our minds, at least not to any significant degree.

We humans like to believe we're far beyond that sort of problem, but that belief itself is the problem. We need to acknowledge our weaknesses and our minds' methods of seeking out patterns and why it's designed to do that. The more we understand that shit the less fearful we are as a species, because we no longer have to resort to believing that invisible entities are directing us or responding to us and therefore have to be appeased or to be offered sacrifices - we can explain these things in terms that everyone can understand. We need to seek patterns, because that's what kept us alive in our early evolution. It's a tool of survival that we don't need to rely on as much today.

I agree with that, too. For a depressive such as myself, my own death isn't as harrowing a prospect as it probably should be. The deaths of others that I care about, however, is another matter. That said, I too have never had to resort to believing in god in order to help me through grief, even when everyone else around me seemed to be getting a little relief from it. It's not something that can be switched on at will - you either believe or you don't. I can't pretend to take solace in religion, because who would I be fooling?

They will find a picture of me and I'll be their idol.

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You had to say that didn't you? Boots, grunge, my white shoes! I don't know what you were talking about so here ya go.
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http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/...09-04-19004.jpg
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http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/...os/myhorsey.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/...hyllishorse.jpg

One of my favorite grunges!! Look very closely at who that is.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/...hagemyfirst.jpg

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Damn, you're a hottie!

I bet you thought Robert was the hottest. That was my first guitar and that picture was taken back where my friend and I were camped by the fire. Not the other girl with the guitar, but the photographer. I somehow didn't get any pictures of her unless I gave them to her maybe.
I made the green dress. The girl in blue is the one I've talked about that's the music teacher next door.

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Hah! Thanks for saying it for me

Cool pics Bobbi

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lol Aw, shucks. Thanks. I'm a little older now, but "Still Crazy After All These Years." So's my friend. I put a few more pictures in the photo thread, too.

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Nice pics, and yes you do look quite good.

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Thanks guys.

And how do you know this? Were you there? Yeah, I'm being a smart ass, but just the same as you believe this because you either heard it or read it you assume that someone was there and at least reported it semi-accurately. That's the same basis as what I believe. That people were there and saw and spoke to Jesus after his death and before his ascension.
I've heard that the Greek translation is the closest to the original writings. As far as questioning omissions and additions that's something I'm curious about. One of my mid-19th century family Bibles has the Apocrypha in it. None of our modern Bibles do. And I know there's other writings that have been discovered about biblical times. How many of those should be included, too? It makes me curiouser and curiouser, ya know?

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You telling me, In some parts of the world the bible actually has chapters that have been added, some deducted very strange.

However paddy's statement is very true...I think it falls more under "Conditioning" then really a more higher power of sequence's.

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Yeah, I had a different thought about the pigeons and now it's gone forever probably. At first I was thinking cause and effect, but this was different. That brain cell must have bit it. dammit.

Do a little investigating. There's a bunch of Bibles. The Old and New Testaments are basically the same books I think, but some are worded slightly different. Like I said there's the Apocrypha which in my old Bible is between the 2 testaments. And from what I remember the Dead Sea Scrolls are about that time period, too. I used to have a book called Lost Books of the Bible, but that was 35 years ago and I don't remember what all was in it. You might find that online or at a library if you're interested.

I saw a brief portion of a PBS show recently that was about American Indians and there are some that are at least holding onto the old customs that haven't been forgotten just so future generations can understand their heritage. I think this is a wonderful idea. Maybe not to the point of the animal sacrificing that some of the southwesterns do, but to keep alive the concepts.

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No... they dont.

It's called classical conditioning Psy 101 stuff and is 100% valid.

Ring a bell as you feed the dog enough... he will start drooling at the sound of a bell eventually.

Where you insert the animal "develops superstions" is an opinion and not a fact.

Well, the experiment in question took place in 1948 (the final paper was presented at that time, there were most likely years of work prior to that) and was conducted by B.F Skinner. You can find video footage on YouTube of it and read his paper on the subject by Googling, too. His work can be reproduced, with the same results each time (such is the nature of the scientific method - if it can't be reproduced or if it yields different results than it did the first time then it's not considered scientific). As Pr0az mentioned, it's a form of conditioning, but that's what it is for humans too. You become coerced into a certain way of thinking/behaving/speaking because you are convinced that specific nuances in these areas will produced certain responses from unseen forces.

Everyone has done something like this: you're walking down the street, and you're trying to make a decision about some particular issue, and you say to yourself "Alright, if I get to the end of the street before this blue car, I'll go with [a], otherwise I'll go with [b]". The decision is taken out of your hands and placed into the hands of...I don't know, invisible decision-making imps? haha. If you expand on that idea, and make the decision much more important and the outcome much more significant, you're gonna need to have a pretty powerful imp to believe in if you are to trust that it will get the job done right! And if the job is done right and the outcome of the decision beneficial, you take that as evidence (unconsciously) that your belief was correct and that future decisions should be made the same way. It's basically the same as believing that praying made you not die in your car on the way home from work, because you didn't die and therefore the prayer must have worked, and you become a little bit apprehensive about not praying in future as a result of this apparent evidence for the power of prayer. If you add to that mindset several thousand years of scripture and research and millions of fellow believers, it suddenly gets upgraded from superstition to the much grander and much more respectable "faith". Just think of all of the libraries and churches and minds that are packed to the gills with religious belief and study - they can't all possibly be wrong, can they? Well, a not dissimilar number of people once believed in Zeus and Thor, but not many people outside of World of Warcraft believe in them today. In that respect, we're all atheists - I just go one god further (that's not my quote, I can't remember where I heard it but I liked it! haha).

I have no idea what the fuck I just said. Invisible decision-making imps?? *sigh*

The historicity of Jesus and the events in the bible is a big debate, but I'm not even sure how relevant it is at the end of the day. If everyone mentioned in the bible existed, and if the people of the time believed them to be supernatural beings (like the son of god), that doesn't do much to prove that miracles actually happened or that Jesus rose from the dead, etc. Large numbers of people believe they've been abducted by aliens, and will swear blindly that it's the truth, even passing lie detector tests, but the fact that they genuinely believe it happened and can give vivid descriptions of their experiences doesn't make it true.

I personally don't think Jesus existed, mainly because there are dozens of other gods from earlier civilisations who had the exact same attributes as Christ; attributes which turn out to be consistent with pagan sun god worship. Mithras and Horus, for example:

Born of a virgin, on December 25th (the winter solstice is a major part of this)
Was visited by three wise men/kings (in these earlier belief systems, the three kings are stars)
Is known as "The Light", "The Lamb", "Son of God", "Saviour", "Cleanser of Sins", etc.
Had twelve disciples (again, in this belief system they are the signs of the Zodiac, with Christ in the centre of the circle which doubles-up as his halo in later iconography)
Healed the sick, brought people back to life, and performed other miracles
Was betrayed by a follower
Was crucified (the cross again appears as part of the Zodiac diagram, in the centre of the circle behind the "Sun" [or "Son"? haha])
Rose from the dead 3 days later

And so on. There are dozens of gods which are almost identical in the above respects, and every single one of them is a pagan sun god - all except Christ? Christian scholars, when these other gods were discovered and learned about, claimed that Satan had predicted the coming of Christ and set up all of this false history by way of discrediting him. This is only slightly less silly than the claim of god putting dinosaur fossils/bones here to test our faith! haha

Again, I don't even think it's a big deal, because if he didn't exist that doesn't prove that god doesn't exist, and if he did exist that doesn't prove that god does exist. At the most it proves that maybe the Abrahamic traditions are mostly based on false information, but the mutually contradicting accounts of various events and the archaeological findings (of Israel, no less) which show that the famous exodus never happened, basically does that for us.

Read the study, there's more to it than classical conditioning. The conditioning you're referring is the complete opposite, in that it's not random but carefully designed and planned. The pigeon in this experiment has no input/stimulus other than that which it produces itself, which is the very definition of superstition. There are no ringing bells or taps on the head - the pigeon identifies what it believes to be a pattern, which doesn't exist (as it's all random), and behaves accordingly. Hence, superstition.

This doesn't have anything to do with religion You posted a link about this in the last RTT.

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Paddy if there is one thing we agree on i must say its this religious deal. You've have actually stated some of my own point of views in it all.

However as stated earlier I'm Not Atheist I'm Agnostic...surely i feel we didn't all come from nothing, some force some where had to have a helping hand in all of this.

One of the biggest things that has always got me, if Christianity is so truly important why didn't Native Americans bring a bible with them...How if a great flood occurred why did the Native Americans not die off yet still live/lived within the Western Hemisphere.

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The real reason this study is efficient is because for one it shows that animals can be superstitious in certain situations, the animal CONDITIONED it self without any human interference, just think years and years of the same thought within actual humans has brought religion where it is today, Seeing something that mystifies and is unexplainable for their time would really have a "Believer/Faith" effect on that individual.

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Paddy, I think one of the unexplained contradictions is about prayer like you mentioned and that in Christianity everything is already planned out. As far as other humanistic beliefs, there's always human elements in them, but when you get down to whatever was the beginning that's what's truth. And personally I don't think anyone will ever know that.

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It does so!

Seriously though, it does. When you consider where religion had its beginnings, and the mindsets of the people of the time, it's exactly the same idea. When we first became aware of our minds it opened the door to a lot of problems. We'd believe that certain images or thoughts in our heads were real, in some way other than our bodies were real. They were phantoms, or unseen forces. That opened the door to the supernatural world, which is by definition capable of housing anything we could ever imagine no matter how bizarre. The sun was the god of the time, because it brought light and therefore protected us from the predators of the night. We came to rely on it and respect it and even love it for its protection and the warmth and all of that shit. If it started raining or became cloudy, for example, which is a random thing, it wouldn't be long before we started attributing it to our individual actions at the time. The more intelligent we became the more intricate and complex our superstitions became, and we'd eventually develop chants, rituals, dances, and all of that sort of stuff as a means of appeasing the sun god or whatever other gods there were, thinking that these actions would be beneficial for us. Like the pigeon, we saw patterns than didn't exist, and we behaved accordingly in an effort to get rewards (or safety). We built upon that base with dogma and holy books and such, but it's the same idea.

Add to this the fear of death, and you have an unshakable motive to continue believing in the superstition, because to believe otherwise would involved facing up to the truth that you're as good as dead before you even get started. This is one of the driving forces that fuels the continued evolution of religious thinking.

I agree that there's no possible way of knowing (short of dying) whether or not there is some sort of creator, because at this moment in time it can't be disproved any more than it can be proved. But that belief in itself is completely different. That's a deistic belief - the theistic belief, on the other hand, is the one which claims to know the mind of god, what it wants, what makes it happy, what will win its good graces, etc. It gives god a personality, of sorts. Deists like yourself believe that there is probably a creator, but that's as far as it tends to go, which is great!

I agree If there is only one reason for us being here (and I'm not sure so there's even that many reasons haha) it's to work towards finding the truth of where we came from and are going, not assuming that it's all been figured out and whatever's in the Bible/Torah/Koran is the ultimate final word. I couldn't agree with you more on that. In fact, I could. There it goes, a little more agreement

Would anyone happen to have an invitation code to demonoid.com? Fucking registration limits

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Impious - 'The Killer' is a very underrated swedish death metal album. Though i can't say much for their other releases.

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Check your PMs

EDIT: I just read that three of The Pirate Bay staff were sentenced to a year in jail and $13million in damages. Fuck haha.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pirate_Bay_trial

Check your mail.

i spent nearly 9 hours of watching children's tv today my mind has collapsed in on itself several times over.

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As long as you didn't have to watch Boobahs you should be fine in an hour or so. Several years ago we stumbled upon them channel checking and watched in mesmorized horror. I'd NEVER let a kid watch that. It's messed up.

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lol no lb it was something special & words and pictures

lol be grateful you didn't see/hear them in irish while channel hopping (boohbahs) they are weird ickle things!! lol

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Whoa. At least those aren't creeping me out like Boobahs. And in Irish? I looked on youtube and found them Irish dancing. That was bad enough.

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i'll be putting words & pictures and something special onto dvd tomorrow so yeah dunno what i'll be watching/recording when get that done lol

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Bunny, what do you call that show with the big paedophile dragon? He'd go on learning adventures with a bunch of weird looking kids.

And do you remember Geordie Racer? What the hell was educational about that fuckin' show? Some guy and his racing pigeons saying "howay!" every other sentence.

puff the magic dragon?

i loved puff the magic dragon!!

how could you not love puff the magic dragon paddy??

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mmmmmmmmm eggy bread with brown sauce TO DIE FOR!!!! soz but just had to shout that

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That song always makes me cry. My friend in India and I sang it either on yahoo or on the landline several years ago. That was fun. I think they used to show that same cartoon over here.

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*hugs lb*

when i first me one of my friends we discovered we both had green dragons called puff!! lol she's a few years younger than me so that surprised me a bit lol

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Haha no, it wasn't that. It was a show for schools, and it involved humans (as opposed to animation), and the dragon was some guy in a suit.

Hahah, owned!

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Barney?

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I'm playing through The World Ends With You again. This game is pinnacle of weebo amusement. <3

4/20 is a fucking nuisance.

LOL...

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Am I eligible for custom user titles yet?

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Stupid holiday for stupid kids. Before anyone gets into a timedragon type argument, let it be known I have used marijuana several times before and generally don't see anything wrong with it. However, "stoner" culture is fucking stupid imo.


Hmm, I was wondering that too.

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I agree it's pretty ridiculous when people go all crazy over 4/20. I mean it's fun to joke around about and stuff, like i sent a bunch of my friends a 'happy holidays' text message, but I'm not going out buying mass amounts of pot to try to smoke as much as possible in one day, and to make sure i'm lighting up at exactly 4:20 pm. People get a bit carried away with it. Half the people I noticed goin around talkin about it aren't even really potheads. They were just tryin to be cool. Actually now to think of it, I didn't even smoke at all today. last night i smoked at 11:30pm, and tonight i didn't smoke until 12:30. Ha.



I believe it's 2000 posts you need

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Wow, this Puff The Magic Dragon video is amazing. I don't know why but I feel compelled to watch the entire thing.

Oh, and may I also add that I've smoked weed PLENTY of times, and it's still just not my drug. I know some people that even enjoy LSD, Shrooms, and Ecstasy, but get paranoid on a toke of weed.

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God.... Damn..... it..... why does school make me feel like someone stuck a hose in every orifice of mine and just started sucking?

.... holy crap, an epiphany; this is where the term "sucks" comes from.

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I really understand you....and feel with you!
Tomorrow school starts for me again...And I wasn`t even drunk in the past two weeks!

But I finally got me Pokèmon on Lvl 70

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I, too, feel your pain, and I haven't been to school in 9 years! This shit never leaves you!

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Fuck you`re right....
FUCK!

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Don't worry, the sweet, warm embrace of death will free you from your horrible memories of Monday morning mathematics and the moistness of your P.E. teacher's hands

As long as it's not self induced you'll be fine.

I have a friend in Ottawa and he sent me the Parliament webcam up there yesterday. There was a whole field of pot smokers out there. I think they do that every year.

7string, I believe you have to promise some token of appreciation to the mod squad before you can get that. Like wearing a metaltabs t-shirt and bright red lipstick in public for a week. Gotta take pictures to prove it though.

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I've slept with pretty much all of 'em and I'm still unable to give myself the user title I clearly deserve

i agree

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I bet they can think of a few, cous.

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Yes. People also do it publicly in Halifax. Canada Day is common for massive public weed-smoking rallies. It is reefered(OH SNAP) to as Cannabis Day.

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