so yeah im looking for a new amp head and i've narrowed it down to a ENGL Fireball or a Peavey 5150 (or 6505 whichever i can get first)

the closest place from where i live that sells engls is far as fuck and the store that sells peaveys wont let me try them out at a loud volume

so if anybody here has tried either of them would u tell me which one is better??

i mostly play technical death, some deathcore, some metalcore and some thrash

btw my budget is $2000 but im also getting a Vader Cabinet so i only have like $1200 for a head, and no job a the moment

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There is no better. They're both excellent amps, I own the fireball and I love it, and am constantly amazed by the type of sounds the 5150 achieves. If you were choosing between the Powerball and 5150 instead I would go with the powerball, but since you're now forced to choose between a 2-channel amp(fireball) and a 3/4-channel amp(5150), you have to think about your priorities.

Do you need separate eq/gain for each channel? Do you switch channels a lot in the kind of music you play? If your answer is yes I'd suggest the 5150, it's more cost effective in your situation. The Fireball is more of a bare-bones amp, just an extremely really good dist channel and a really good clean channel, but with shared EQ/gain and no other features, but for people who don't need those extra features it's probably the best amp you can buy for metal in that sort of price range.

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thanks for the reply well im really just looking for awesome tone, with great bottom end, and highs that done rape my ears..like psycroptic's scepter of ancients or necrophagist's epitaph..i really never use the clean channel. can i get that kind of tone with the fireball? right know im leaning more towards the 5150 since its way cheaper and ive heard both amps have similar tone.true?

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Both are very good amps for (death) metal, but I like the Engl more.
Soeru is right in being a matter of oppinion.
But I'd still get the powerball, since right now everyone and their grandma has a 5150/6160

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Oh absolutely.

I'm not sure how similar they are internally but I guess they are similar in the sense that they are very tight sounding high gain amps. Using Sovtek 12AX7LPS tubes in the preamp, at times it REALLY sounds a lot like a lot of samples I've heard done with the 5150.

They use the same arrangement of tubes(5150 has an extra preamp tube(ridiculous gain!)), so I'm tempted to say they use a similar design. The 5150 probably has a bit more gain than the Fireball, but that's not to say that the fireball doesn't get insanely brutal. The 5150 has a lot of highs and sounds very clear, the Fireball sounds clear as well but it's a bit smoother with the treble and the low-end is tight and thunderous. Just don't use JJ tubes with it, they make the amp sound way too dark(bleeding off a lot of treble).

If you live in America the 5150 is cheaper so if I was short on cash I would probably go with that if I couldn't try both. I live in Europe so Fireballs are bit cheaper than 5150's as they're manufactured closer to home. Powerballs are about the same as the 5150 if not a tiny bit more.

Either way you can't go wrong! Also don't be turned off from buying it on the 2nd hand market on ebay, you can always buy it and try it out for a few months and then sell it and get the other amp if you feel it's not for you.

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I would take my Fireball over a 5150 any day. The Fireball has more than enough gain with passive pickups to play any sort of death metal. But if you're gonna be gigging maybe the 5150 would be better because it's built like a cinder block...

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I'm assuming you're the U.S. so the 6505/5150's are a tad cheaper here. If you have $1,200 to put into a head. I would suggest buying used. A used 5150(II)/6505(+) head would run in the $600-800 range right now depening on condition(Ugly amps are cheaper and generally FUNCTION just as good!). I think the used Fireballs are closer to $1,000.

So not only is buying used cheaper. But if you decide you're not happy with the choice you've made. You can sell it for what you paid for it.

ENGL's are way nice. I've never owned a Fireball, so I have only a little amount of playing time on them, plus what I've heard from other people using them. I did however, at one point in time, have a V1 Powerball and an E530 preamp.

The Powerball could do really clear cleans, not so much the broken/gritty clean tone. The gainy tones were sorta the same way. Very compressed and clear, even while having intense amounts of gain on tap. I just couldn't get the damn thing to sound "raw" enough for me. Now, this could be good or bad depending on how you like your tone. Considering the music I was playing around the time I bought and owned it. It was very well suited for me. But over time I changed, as did my needs in an amp.

The E530 had a more diverse range of tones I'd say. Despite having less controls/options. It had more than enough gain in it to handle extreme metal and whatnot. The cleans could do both clear and gritty cleans. The crunch and lead modes had some "raw" character to them that was missing in the Powerball. Teamed up with a good tube poweramp. It's a killer amp.

I've owned a couple stock 5150's and a stock 5150II over the course of time. But the amp that's had my heart for the last year now is my FJA modded 5150II. I love that amp. I've been practicing, recording and touring/gigging with it for a while now and haven't had any issues with it. Just routine tube replacement when I feel it needs it.

The 5150's in general just have an awesome high gain tone to them. And that's one of the biggest reasons for them becoming a "staple" in the hardcore/metal scenes.

I don't think you'd regret buying either amp.

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umm i guess im gona go with the peavey.. theres a store close to where i live where they have a few used 5150s and 6505s ..in havent had any luck finding used engls though.. i can also get an isp decimator and a holy grail if i buy one of those used 5150s with my spare money

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For used ENGL's goto ebay. This passed couple of weeks they've had more ENGLS's go on sale than I've ever seen and I ended up picking up the Ritchie Blackmore signature. The Peavey's can't compete as far as tone. This amp has amazing cleans, and both a tight and loose gain channels. It doesn't have six gain stages like the 5150 but you don't need that much distortion. I have a 5150 combo and I'll admit that the 5150 is a great amp for its price but it can't compare to higher quality amps. 5150's go for well under a grand used and Engl's can be picked up for a little over a grand to about 1500. Hope that helps.

If you're talking about the Decimator pedal, don't waste your money, get a boss NS-2 instead. The rack ISP is good but you wouldn't expect less due to its price tag. I also hear the EH holy grail pedals are a bit noisy...

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+1

The Decimator ProRack G is awesome. Dead silent rig. Ultimately I just got sick of the size+setup. It was convenient when I used a lot of rack gear for FX and whatnot. But when I do the head+pedalboard thing. It's just a pain.

The Decimator pedal worked pretty good. I only got it because it was free. But I got rid of it not too long after because I already had the Pro Rack G and an NS-2.

The NS-2 has a lot more features that I use:

The "gate" has threshold and decay controls making it wayyy more flexible and effective. The Decimator pedal just has the one knob...

The mute/bypass feature has come in handy a few times. Decimator lacks this.

The NS-2 can allow you to us the 9v daisy chain to power more pedals. Decimator can also not do this.

And the FX Loop on the NS-2 is awesome. Especially if you use distortion/od/boost/eq/ect type pedals. With most Noise gates/suppressors, if put the OD pedal behind the gate, the gate helps your feedback, but it does nothing for your operation noise/hiss that comes from running so much gain in front of the amp. But if you put the OD pedal before the gate, sometimes it's too much drive in front of the pedal and the gate just doesn't close. With the NS-2 you just throw it in the FX loop and enjoy all the gain you want without any added operation noise and it doesn't hinder the effectiveness of the gate from preventing feedback. Any noisey pedal in general, but with OD pedals I find it especially nice to have. The Decimator pedal... Well, it doesn't have this either.

And the price... I bought my NS-2 for $50 used. They're only $85 new from Musicians Friend these days. The Decimator is $120 or so new. I got mine free as a gift, and sold it for like $90 or something. The Pro Rack G... Sold mine for $300 which is about what I paid new at the time. But they're like $400 or so these days.

The NS-2 is just a winner IMHO.

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Yeah this is why I'll never get a different noise reducing pedal, the ns-2's extra features are just so convenient.

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The NS-2 is one of the best recommendations I got from this board, let alone one of the best pedals I've ever ran across. I haven't touched the knobs on mine for months after I initially set them up, it just works in the background and it doesn't kill sustained notes, or your tone. I love that.

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Gents,

I too am interested in the Engl and Peavey's as noted in this thread a couple quick questions if you don't mind:

1) How is the 60W Fireball in terms of volume compared to the 120W Peavey(6505+)?

2) I've heard many great things about the 6505+ head, but the cabs seem to get a lot less, er...love. Would you recommend not going with the matched Peavey cab for that head - if so, any recommendations in particular?

*this is all for straight up Death Metal, using EMG's(81's) if that has any bearing.

Thanks!

1) The 6505/5150's are LOUD and have insane amounts of headroom. The Fireball should be plenty loud to keep up with a band and drummer, but it will run out of headroom a lot quicker. I find in amps with tons of preamp gain, it's good to have a lot of headroom.

2) The Peavey 6505/5150 series cabs aren't bad by any means. But there are many I prefer over it. Marshall's(Generally Celestion G12T-75's), Mesa's(Celestion Vintage 30's) ect... I personally use a VHT Fatbottom(Eminence P50E's) 4x12 and Electricamp 6x12(Eminence Man-O-Wars).

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What is headroom?

Thanks!!