So I decided to figure out what my setup should be with my current amp. I figure if I know what I want, I'll buy a new piece of gear every couple months or so when I can afford it. (Or I'll let my family buy a few things for me for X-mas) That way my rig will be really sweet by the end of the year.

Right now I have the metal muff and I love it. I'm running through a JCM800 half stack, which has a low input and high input. My main problem was that I couldn't get clean tones while plugged into the high input.

I just learned that I could plug both the low input (cleaner tone) and the high input (overdriven tone) into a Y-Box A/B selector thing. That way I never have to touch anything except the A/B Box.

----------BTW I am constantly editing my original post after doing research, so sorry if it gets confusing-------

Check this out in website form with pictures and links:
http://www.angelfire.com/moon/aasteveo/PedalBoard.html


So here's the setup:

Schecter C-1 Elite with DiMarzio Tone Zone at bridge and Air Norton at neck
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Planet Waves Chromatic Tuner - $85
Boss NS2 Noise Suppressor - $85
Electro-Harmonix Metal Muff - $90
DOD A/B Selector - $40
MXR 10-Band EQ - $120
Boss DD6 Digital Delay - $160
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Vintage Marshall JCM800 head
Marshal 1960 4x12 cab.


Signal Flow:
Guitar > Tuner > Input on Noise Suppressor > Delay > Input of Y-Box >

Output A (heavy) > Distortion Pedal > EQ > Return/Send on Noise Suppressor > High Input of JCM800

Output B (clean) > Acoustic Simulator > Low Input of JCM800

That's pretty cool. Instead of the MXR gate I'd suggest a boss(because it has a decay knob unlike other pedal noisegates), OR the high end ISP decimator rack. I haven't heard great things about the MXR noisegates. You definitely won't need any supplemental dist/OD pedals with an Engl PB, just a footswitch to switch in between channels and master volumes. And screw the maximizer, the Engl sounds great on its own!

Did you buy your tonezone used? Mine doesn't feed back at all. Maybe you have it too close to your strings. Or it could just be you are using to much dist and treble on your amp/dist pedal. Why don't you just run the 800 without pedals? It sounds great on its own, and if it's not grindy enough why don't you try new tubes. A pedal like a metal muff is more for amps that have no distorted channel at all.

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Yeah +1 on not using the Metal Muff, despite the fact I love it for what it is. Try boosting the 800 with an OD or clean boost instead. I also agree with Soeru on ditching the Sonic Maximiser, an Engl really doesn't need that, plus it useless for live use as it cuts yours mids. I'd love to hear some Tone Zone clips if possible, just as a comparison once I get my Air Zone in.

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one cause of too much feedback is plugging your muff into the jcm800 with the gain on the amp and pedal too high. Distortion pedal --> distorted amp typically yeilds feedback.

For the mogami cables, its cheaper to order the parts for them and build them yourselves. You'll save about 30-40$ for each cable.

As for the delay, i wouldn't get the dd6 unless you're really guna be using all the features. Plus, its kinda sterile sounding, i'd recommend one of those analog maxon ones.

For the noise gate, like Soeru said, take a boss or an isp pedal over that. Honestly. You will be much happier.

And screw the boss chromatic tuner (assuming its the pedal). Its a tone sucking noise machine. Planet waves makes a pedal tuner for 10$ cheaper thats true bypass so it wont suck tone. Also, its chrome, and badass hahahah.

oh, and nobody ever needs a sonic maximizer. When you first plug it in you'll be like OMG THIS SOUNDS SO GOOD! And then think you cant live without it. BUt then you'll realize during gigs that you cant hear yourself, and it sounds mushy and gross; and when you finally take out of your equipment chain youll feel like you've just taken a persian carpet off of your cabinet... it kinda sounds like youve cleared yoru sinuses or let the water drain out of your ears...

Why would you want to buy a second metal muff?

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Check the dimarzio site, has some nifty demos of how great it sounds with leads. Kicks ass for rhythm too but the clips don't show that too well. I think its the most versatile bridge pickup personally.

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boss ns2.

to alter the delayed guitar without touching the original playing, plug the delay into your fx loop, then you can add other 'tings to mess with the delay in the fx loop, (using your mix to set the delay level, and set the delay-pedal-level to 100%).

this also allows you to stop the delay pedal sucking your tone so much, cause it will only be running the delayed sound, not the whole sound.

sounds like your pickup might be microphonic, which probably aint your mates fault. tap it with your finger, see if it reacts way more than your other pickup.
you just need it re-sealed with wax an' that. go down to your local french resturant and borrow their fondue set.


also, set your amp up for the best distorted sound you can get, and then rollback off the guitars volume for cleans/crunch/whatever. - this wont work so well with a heavily applied noisegate.

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So I've ditched the BBE because everyone I ask says it's terrible. Honestly, I've never even tried a generic EQ pedal and I figure that would probably sound better.

I also changed the Boss tuner to the Planet Waves tuner since a true bypass is always better than non-true.

And I switched the ENGL amp to the amp I already use just to settle any confusion. I'll think about the ENGL in a few years when I have a bigger budget.

I also changed some other things around in my original post after reading the advice given, so the posts above this one might be confusing if you haven't read this before.

Ok, well I'm going to chip in again and say ditch the Metal Muff and put a Maxon OD808 or Digitech Bad Monkey on your list instead. Start boosting the 800! As for the Delay I have a Line6 Echo Park which is awesome, you have a huge range of sounds plus you get a bit of reverb and chorus thrown in on some of the modes. If thats too elaborate then the Marshall Echohead is a cheap but great alternative. Also make sure that the Marshall cab is the one with Celestion Vintage 30's not G12T-75's. I think its called the 1960AV/BV depending on whether its straight or slant.

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I don't know why people need to spend money on a lot of crap in their rig. A noise gate and an EQ, if you have a good amp you barely need an EQ or a noise gate..

And you probably won't need to boost the amp either.

I suggest just saving up for a good amp, it'll probably be the cheaper way. I'm the complete opposite of most guys, I don't use any effects or pedals. Just a guitar and an amp. Sometimes a tuner but that's really it.

I can vouch for Engl, I have a bunch of their amps and not one has let me down. I'de even advice buying one used to save money, these things are build like a tank. They really keep their value as well.. Recently sold a Engl Ritchie Blackmore for the same ammount I bought it for two years ago.
(sold it because I allready have a PB, Savage and SE)

Guitar>Amp is always the best route.

When you add all that extra crap, it just starts to take away from your tone more and more (and no, adding a BBE is not a good way to compensate).

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You really think I can get death metal tones from an overdrive pedal? I've never really seen anyone do that. Though, I've never tried either...

deicide = jcm 800 with a rat
mastodon = jcm 800 with a ts808

its pretty crazy.

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Isnt Mastadon using Laney's these days? Or did they switch again?

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apparently it's laneys live, and jcm800's on recording. Mother puncher is apparently JUST an 800 and a ts808, nothing more. Thats what the HCAF people are saying, and theyr epretty adament.

I think the key is all knobs on 11. That includes master volume.

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This thread rocks.
You guys saved me from buying that Boss tuner and a Korg pedal tuner which looked awesome but wasn't really worth the extra cash.
I'm suprised at Planet Waves, that tuner kicks ass.
Also, I agree with the stance on BBE's - they're awesome at first but then it's like having melted cheese on everything.. you get too used to it and it ain't really good for you. Bleeding, thanks for recommending the Maxon analog delay - I'm so happy I finally found a simple analog delay that goes over 600 ms, and that Maxon goes to like 900 ms. I love the Memory Man but I don't really need the extra chorus/vibrato. I'm selling my Boss DD20 to be able to get that Maxon...
Two questions for you guys:
1. What volume pedal do you guys recommend? I'm torn between the Morley Steve Vai volume pedal and the Ernie Ball one.
2. If you're happy with your tone, do you really need an EQ and compressor, or could it help make your tone even better?

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You don't really use the pedal as the 'distorted tone' as such, although you will alter your sound a bit. You run the pedal into the overdrive channel of the amp (not the clean) and instead of utilising the gain knob you just set it to zero and then 'boost' the amp by whacking the volume all the way up. Its the same principle as using higher output pickups, the volume hits your preamp tubes harder and produces more distortion. So your 800 will sound killer. You'd be surprised how many bands use a boost when recording or playing live. I doubt you'll achieve modern death tones from that setup, but old-school stuff ala Death, Morbid Angel, Dissection, basically the 80's death metal sound can easily be achieved with an 800, boost and hi-output pups.

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Lots of bands use pedals. Either as boosts or main distortions.

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I'm glad somebody is happy with the suggestions.
For volume pedal, AVOID ERNIE BALL. Not only are they effing rediculously priced, but they break down really easily, and they use low value pots which suck tone horribly. 250 k pots are used to tame the treble in single coils, and adding another 500k pot to your chain after a 500k volume knob is just the same as having a 250k pot in your guitar -- it sucks tone.

EQ, i dont know much about, but im sure you could get some tighter tones after lengthy tweaking. Its just an extra set of knobs for specific tone shaping, cant hurt.

And for compressors, i honestly dont see a point in them being a permanent part of your tone. If used too liberally, they kinda take away your attack and give you a violin like tone. BUT, if activated in the middle of a bend, it wont die out like it should, it will just sing on. Pretty sweet for leads if you use them correctly

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Lots of death metal bands? Cuz Mastodon isn't really death metal. I don't know what genre you wanna put them in, but they're not the tone I'm going for. I'm looking for more of a Necrophagist tone, but I don't have 3 grand to spend on an ENGL.

And on top of that, I go into clean tone sometimes so if I put an OD pedal or even a distortion pedal into the high output, I'll never be able to play clean. Well... unless I pull way back in the volume nob, but I hate doing that.

Maybe I'll try it though. It couldn't hurt to have a shitty clean tone live if it means a great distorted tone. Most of our stuff is distorted anyhow. It's only the transitional passages that are clean. And maybe the natural overdriven sound of the tubes would sound cool in those parts. I've never really been able to get the high output to work with my setup. But once I get that NS2, I'll have much more control. I'll have to experiment with it at our next band practice.


Strange question...if I put a noise suppressor between the head (on high output) and the cab, what will happen? Wouldn't that technically be the very last possible place in the signal chain? Because last spot the signal is going is to the speakers.

But is that even a good idea? Because those are speaker cables back there and not instrument cables. Would it make a difference to the pedal?

Plenty of death metal bands use overdrives/mild distortion pedals with their amps. Morbid Angel, Obituary, Hate Eternal, just tons. You're not using just the overdrive, you're blending it with the distortion on your amp to get a really tight sound. You will be able to get fairly accurate brutal death sounds with the right settings. You might also want to look into getting some higher gain preamp tubes for your amp but a 800 with a boost has sufficed for a lot of death metal bands.

If you go into clean mode, turn off the OD pedal, duh!

As for what OD, try out several, anything from a cheap Boss SD-1 or Digitech Bad Monkey to an Ibanez tubescreamer or Maxon OD808 will do wonders with your type of amp.

DO NOT PUT A PEDAL IN BETWEEN THE AMP AND CAB. There's a reason why the wire between the amp and cab is different from regular guitar cables, because it carries really high voltage signals to drive the speakers and move air, creating sound. Plug a pedal in between and you'll most certainly fry the pedal and amp and possibly the cab as well. Maybe even risk electric shock.

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uh, i thought you have a jcm 800. that means 2inputs. That means you can use a y box to use your lo input as clean, and have an overdrive going into hi input.
you can get cleans with a overdrive, you just have to brain first and get rid of the dumb :P

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should I not use a normal instrument cable to run from my amp to my cab? What should I use?

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Nah you can use a regular instrument cable to go from amp head/power amp to cab, just don't stick anything between, especially not a pedal like Soeru said!

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ok, I was getting scared. I love my amp and don't want anything to happen to it.

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Wow thanks. I guess I didn't know that was an option. I've been struggling with that problem for a while. This is the first time I really put any effort into my tone, and I'm glad I started this thread. My whole life it's just been Guitar > Distortion > Amp.

But can you suggest any specific box? Have you had any experience with this one? It seems to me like they'd all do the same thing. I wonder if it sucks some tone out, though.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/prod...-Box?sku=150109

If I just put the A side into an acoustic simulator and then into the low input, and put the B side into an overdrive pedal (or a distortion pedal) and then into the high input, it would solve a lot of problems! Thanks!

Okay so I've re-thought my setup after learning about the Y-Box.

Guitar > Tuner > Input on Noise Suppressor > Delay > Input of Y-Box >

Output A (heavy) > Distortion Pedal > EQ > Return/Send on Noise Suppressor > High Input of JCM800

Output B (clean) > Low Input of JCM800

Then all I would ever have to touch is the Y-Box A/B selector. And all the other pedals would sit there and I wouldn't have to tap-dance.

This forum is awesome! My setup gets better after every post I read.

ummm... k. Instrument cables have much smaller gauges than regular cables, and if you turn the volume too high, you might short it out and possibly damage your output transformer (assuming you're using tubes). If its solid state, the worst that could happen is the cable shorts out and stops working.

i'd invest in a speaker cable.

Also, dont use speaker cables as guitar cables, they arent shielded and they give you radio signals. I learned this the hard way

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Thanks Bleeding, I didn't even know that...

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I'm using a solid state amp. So I guess I should get an amp cable soon, but I don't have to freak out or quit playing my amp until then.

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Yea, do not use an instrument cable in place of a speaker cable. It will work in a pinch for something like bedroom practice, but they arent designed to handle anything much more than a hot guitar output signal.

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dont worry, a speaker cable will only cost you 10$ max from amp to cab... all you need is like 6 feet.

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