i want to swap the stock EMG-H3s with something that will sound a lot thicker and more lively.

if you haven't played the mg series, they are mahogany but they are super super thin and light, and that shows through in the tone. so the new p-ups must compensate for this. i'm looking for a lot of mids + bass, with reduced highs.

right now i'm leaning towards the dimarzio super3. thoughts?

i had a X2N in my RG, and found it a little too abrasive. EMG 81s i like, but i want to try something else this time around. the only stipulation here is it has to be available for > $100 and come in cream or cream/black.

Dimarzio tonezone.

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^ how do you feel about the super3? (higher output/ceramic...).

edit: part of my interest in it is an alleged unique sound when downtuning. if anyone uses one of these please comment.

also a comparison to an invader or w/e is also welcome. thx

once again tonezone, one of dimarzio's best pickups for whatever it does it all.

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I too would recommend the Tone Zone. It has a lot of bass and mids, which is perfect for thickening out your guitar's sound. As far as neck pickups go, most people here seem to swear by PAF Pros, but an Air Norton seems like a great choice too for single note work.

Tone zone's are nice, I have them in an RG but IMHO not very thick sounding. Lively, yes. Good for solo's as well.

Seymour Duncan SH-11 Custom/Custom's are pretty cool too if you want something that has good tone and but some punch as well.
I didn't like the invader much, they're heavy and punchy but not very lively/dynamic. Good if you're into deathmetal I guess. They do have a lot of lows but they sounded kind of dull to me in the two guitars I tried them with. (jackson soloist and ibanez rg)


Here's a link:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/prod...20&src=3SOSWXXA

They all rant on about vintage this and that but it sounds really badass. Worth a try if you're considering the invader.

Oh and EMG 81's are much better then the EMG-h3's. But if you want something else, the tonezone and custom/custom are definetly worth checking out. Same goes for the invader but it's just very different compared to a tone zone.

skip the super 3, its too muddy to be useable.

custom/custom is a good idea, or maybe even a JB. I think the custom/custom has a bit less gain and is a bit more vintage toned compared to its parent the Custom, but dont take my word for it, listen to the sound bytes.

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ok thx guys. i checked the custom/custom and the tone chart shows that it's got reduced bass? idk the samples on the duncan site all sound the same to me

I put a PAF Pro in the neck of my guitar today (warm and dark sounding guitar) and it was a little muddy on the low 3 strings maybe but the solo tone on the three plain strings was godly. Smooth and warm.

Clean sound was spectacular as well.

I'm beginning to think DR strings suck ass. I had D'Addario 09's on it before i swapped them to DR 010-52, and in comparison the DR's sound very "muffled" and are impossible to pull off pinch harmonics on.. With the D'Addarios it was a piece of cake. The DR's sound old when you take them out of the package..

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My experience with the Invader is that is sounds fucking INCREDIBLE with thick ass heavy gauge strings. It's so thick, tight and brutal and the thing just sounds flat out evil, very "growling" voice. I also agree that it has nearly no dynamics, but that works for me (i always dig on those strings like a motherfucker anyway). I have not had issues with muddiness or lack of clarity either but it's probably my whole setup liking the Invader (everyone and their mom claims these are muddy). Also I've only tried it down to D, I'll try B standard tomorrow and check out the mud..

Doesn't sound dull to me but again i have a trebly / high-midrange heavy amp (5150).

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The 'dull' I was referring to is partial to the dynamics, I agree they are good for the brutal stuff but IMO that is very much the thing they are good at and not much else..

They're definetly worth a shot, I've played them with my Engl Powerball and Engl Savage SE and it definetly works. But I don't think they are very good if you play a lot of leads. If you do dig on the strings like a motherfucker, they will work, I totally agree! If you're into downtuning and heavy shit they work like a charm.

Kleenx: don't base your opinion on sound files over the internet, play guitars with the pickups in them. some stores have a guitar with a pickup-changer system so you can try different pickups with one guitar, it's great.. I do NOT trust sound files on the internet, there's too many variable factors like amp, guitar, build material, you name it...

Yeah if you play lots of leads on the bridge P/U and use an Invader there you can pretty much forget dynamics. I prefer leads on the neck P/U though so no prob.. But IMO the Invader does well on sweeps.

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ordered tonezone + paf pro.
got f-spacing in the bridge, do i want f-space in the neck too?

Excellent choice.

Well I hear supposedly for the neck pos it doesn't really matter, but it doesn't hurt to change the order to all f-spacing if you still can.

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What it says on DiMarzio's site is that if your nut width is 43mm or more you can go F-Spaced if you like. I'd go regular though.

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one last question
can i use the stock pots from the H3's w the new dimarzios?

Yeah.

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installed the dimarzios over the weekend ... here's a pic
(zebra cream in bridge, looks a little white in photo, better in person)

the sound is very 'clear' and responsive, as compared to the h3's, which had more mid/warm/crunch. DEF you were right when you said they wouldn't be thick. they seem real flat and glassy. w distortion they remain pretty clear (the paf muds a bit on the low e) and bright. the individual notes really stand out. so yeah, lots of clarity, but a little flat and thin sounding overall imho (probably due in part to guitar body though ... should have gone active i guess!).

edit forgot to mention...
when wiring, noticed there were little bars bridging connections on the switch ... what are these called + why would a 3way selector switch need them?

Attached Images

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*UPDATE*

since starting this thread, i've swapped the p-ups a couple times. here's the comparison if anybody is interested...

EMG-H3 (bridge + neck)
(this was stock) the tone is ok i think the neck is just lacking gain. it sounds like an 81 with the vol knob rolled down to 7. the neck positioned sounded very good though with just the right amount of gain. great for distorted leads. i kind of wish i'd kept it.

DiMARZIO TONEZONE (bridge)
very bouncy and lively ... like playing rubber bands. highs sound incredible, lows not so great especially downtuned. perfect for leads/bends a little divided for rhythms (ie the notes stand apart instead of blending). very warm and rounded sound, very nice mids and rolled off sounding highs. sounds best when you hold a single note and vibrato. muds a bit on quick runs which is nice and liquidy for highs, but a bit sloppy on lows. a little bit nasal at times and a little thin especially on chords. fun to play but a bit cheesy sounding, definitely oriented towards shred. on clean it could go more of a bluesy garage rock direction. a bit noisy (like they tried to push the output beyond a reasonable level).

DIMARZIO PAF PRO (neck)
i had high hopes for this one since everybody seems to love them here. but imo this thing sounds supremely retarded! it's bouncy and hollow sounding. i'm thinking stevie ray vaughan flat slappy blues etc. on cleans it's ok but a bit plastic, on distortion in muds everywhere on the low e string. where it sounds best to me is above the 12th fret high e, especially with delay. it's weird plucky sound is good when there are a boat load of effects on. it's also a bit noisy. high output which was good, it about equals the invader i have in the bridge right now, a little bit lower than the tonezone.

EMG-81 (bridge)
after the tonezone i was looking for something meatier in the rhythms and this seemed like the logical choice. however it sounded really toy-like in comparison. missing frequencies especially lows and it just felt fake in some way, definitely made playing less fun. kind of like the way digital modeling sucks some of the fun out of playing. the sustain was the best of the bunch, and the compression made scales and sweeps really easy. the noise was atrocious, i had to crank my gate way up.

DUNCAN INVADER (bridge)
this is the current champ, the ultimate speed picker and low note riffer. where the tonezone was rubbery and slightly corny, this is like no frills steel (i realize the two use different magnets ... this is just for comparison). it's very dry and sterile sounding but with distortion it just roars and makes a thick wall of sound. harmonics scream. the tone is very well balanced, sounds like a 'real' guitar, with a preference towards the well articulated lows. the highs are not shrill but they definitely have teeth. it really excels at fast runs / hammers pulls etc and low note riffing and chugging. it sounds better with chords than single notes. the sustain is fine, but for holding long sweet notes, i need to roll off the volume a bit or add an effect. clean it's not ideal a little sparse and dry. definitely limited in terms of what you can do with it, but for metal this thing is a total beast. surprisingly quiet (in terms of unwanted noise).

The sd custom/custom aint particularly a good idea for metal, its a good pickup but its A2 magnet leads it, to have a slightly undefined flubby bass, and a slighlty un-present treble end. It cuts thorugh the mix so well but lacks bass and highs. I know because i own one

Go for a real Bill Lawrence 500-XL if you want metal and definition in the same description

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If you find any of these aftermarket pickups noisy it's either your amp or you probably did a sloppy wiring job/are still using the cheap emg HZ pots. Get some CTS pots and try to make cleaner connections(if this was the case). The TZ is totally dead quiet in my guitar.

The invader and the tonezone both use Alnico V's as far as I know.

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For what its worth, I find picking p'ups like picking tubes: a fucking nightmare. The only brand that I've played where every pickup was awesome was Bare Knuckle, I know these are a premium over Dimarzio/SD/EMG but its worth it, i'll never consider buying one of those brands now.

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It is a nightmare indeed, particularly with passives. But once you try 4 or 5 thoroughly you can get a good idea of what you like. Personally I've become so accustomed to the tonezone I think I might not be bothering with anything else for a while.

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this is all too true haha, BUT it was the same setup for both the duncan and the dimarzios (currently running both) and in comparison under the same conditions, the invader is noticeably quieter. idk if i got unlucky with dimarzios but i've taken them out and rewired them a couple times, as well as experience with the x2n i used to have, and they were all noisy. just an observation... i'm definitely a noob at this.

the invader is ceramic, isn't it? the full shred is alnico v maybe thats what you're thinking of.


maybe someday :/ i guess here in the US there are some lesser known cheaper alternatives like bill lawrence and kent armstrong too ... i should have tried them first.

Oh damn I thought it was alnico my bad. Ceramic tends to be brighter, but since the damn thing is so overwound it ends up being bassier than the tonezone. I have dimarzios in all my guitars(only did the wiring on 2 of the 3 I have) and never have had any problems with noise. :shrug:

The x2n was the quietest pickup(noise-wise) I've ever used, more so than emg's that claim to be noiseless! Zero hum, like absolutely zero(but retardedly sensitive to playing). Dumb question but you did take into account that dimarzios leads have different color codings than duncans right?

Btw is it the type of static noise/buzz that goes away only when you touch the bridge/strings?

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im not sure if it has more bass, it doesn't sound like more to my ears in terms of the range. less vintage, definitely brighter. closer to the x2n than the tonezone, but a lot less highs than the x2n, and lower output.

the noise is just a constant no matter what i do ... i can see it in the reaction of my ns2 as well. when i say noisy i mean in a relative sense. they're a lot better than typical stocks. i was just surprised at the difference. maybe you can't really go by brand on that. this one invader is the only SD i've had anyways so it's not a fair comparison i guess.

edit: re the colors, i'm positive i got that right. i followed the instructions for both brands and had them in series.

Hmm. Bizarre. You find the invader brighter than the tonezone? You've sparked my interest in checking it out sometime. FUCK... not another pickup GAS streak.

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I've got the SLSMG with the 81 (and a jazz at the neck) and I'd have to disagree with my experience with it. Sounds nice and thick. What other gear are you using?

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engl 530 -> 2x12 closed back cab (2 eminence legend v12's).