So I'd like to use counterpoint...But I have no idea on how to compose it. All help is greatly appreciated.

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As I understand it, a counterpoint is just another melody played at the same time as a different melody in the same key. I could be wrong though.

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basically yes just to melodeis played at same time, but they need to flow together too and not be two completly different melodies that are just playing at once and you dont want them both doing crazy stuff at the same time people will just think its chaos and not pay attention

say you have to melodies A and B
A can start off with some quick licks 16 note arpeggios or whatever, and B can be hanging back a bit playing some qrter or just half notes to take less attention from it without killing it completly. a decent rule is if one gets crazy or does somethign you want people to noticed the other(s) should be less intense not to say that you cant do that a speedy run where people catch up a bar late (think row row row your boat, where each kid joins in after the first two bars)

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Ah yes, a Canon (Row row row your boat)

But for the melodies, do they have to follow a chord progression? I've sat down and analyzed some contropuntal pieces, and they were created around chords. When writing counterpoint, would it be wise to follow a circle of fifths progression? Or just choose any random chords? Should I write melody A first, then have melody B somewhat follow it? Or should I just write two melodies and hope they blend together?

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maybe come up with a motìf or a theme that they both have a common ground on. as far as chord progression you could just use circle of 5ths to get a hang of it
though im trying to remember this sheet my music teacher once gaveus back in highschool i think it went like this

I-can go anywhere cause its the main chord of the progression
ii- likes to lead to ether a V or a vii
iii- to a vi
iv- to a V or a vii
V- to I (for authentic cadence) or a IV for like 'amen' type ending and i think to a vi for a deceptive cadence
vi- ii or IV
vii- to a I

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Holy crap. I'm saving your post to a txt file (the chord progression bit). Thats a good piece of information!

Counterpoint is when you have a melody with a counter part...they are not both melodies.

There are rules for counterpoint. When this forum opened I wrote quite a few lengthy threads on counterpoint. Look for those.

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man, i've had mucho counterpoint classes this year; its insanely complex

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hahah, are they general counterpoint classes, or do they pertain to a specific era of history? If that's the case, it should be a lot easier. I took two class--16th century counterpoint and 18th century counterpoint--and they were very easy to pass.

On the other hand, you should try taking some Form Analysis and Harmonic Analysis courses from the 3 and 4 thousand level (advanced) courses. Those two are hard......I believe I've made a thread about it here before asking for help that I could only get from John, who's great at math.

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They actually have classes on Counterpoint? Ha ha. That's fuckin' insane. I've read up on some of the rules of counterpoint, and it's pretty excessive. Is there any courses on Bach's Fugues? Speaking of Fugues, what makes a Fugue a Fugue?

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Goooooood question. I did my final in 18th century counterpoint on a Bach fugue.

A fugue is an imitative, contrapuntal (adj. form of the word counterpoint by the way) piece where each voice comes in one after the other. As soon as all the voices enter, a sequence starts....and depending on what the composer wants, do more sequesnces and restate the fugue subject for the end. A fugue is not a cannon.

Gimmi some time and I'll post up the midi version of my finial in the next day or maybe late tonight. Hahhaa, we had musicians play them all at the end of the semester, and mine was like a fucking funeral march. instrumentation was euphonium, oboe, french horn, and trumpet--and the french horn took his part down an octave. You're gonna love it....

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Wow. That sounds more metal than burning down a fucking church! I'm extremely excited and can't wait to hear it! Thanks for answering the question. I've written a few bars of counterpoint since my last post. I kinda don't like it...it's weird...The left hand (written in piano) isn't doing straight quarters, halfs, etc. It's really random, while the right hand is straight 8th notes. Whichever. I'll work more with it. Hopefully I'll come up with something cool.

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For the final exam, what we did was take a Bach fugue subject and write a whole new fugue to it. This is mine....I don't know what subject it's from though.....I got like an 86 or something on it, so I guess there are a few mistakes. I was happy enough to be done with the class, so I kinda deleted/didn't look over the teacher's comments on it....oops...

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Nice, I can't wait to take that class.

Wow. Fucking brilliant! That was really great! 0:44 - 0:50 is my favorite part. Between 1:10 - 1:15 it seemed a little rushed. But you got an 86 on it? Come now! That's pretty harsh! I think it should have been atleast a 92. And that's being mean.

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Would that be referring to the last sequence? Meh, it was an odd/off beat rhythm and the tempo doesn't change at all...also fugues are non-stop with no breaks.

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Counter point can be very complex, and it can also be something that you just do naturally without even realizing. Usually, not always, soloing over a chord progression is one form or another of counterpoint.

Wiki has a surprisingly good amount on CP.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterpoint

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great thread.



cool piece. its dreary ( in a good way), a very metal fugue.

Counterpoint ain't hard, or special. It's simply writing two parts that are fairly different, and have a weaving sound. It's not really not something you compose, or a form, it's a feature of music.

I like writing counterpoint. It adds depth.

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very suprising, thanks for the heads up.

Somewhat true, but it can just as easily be something youd have to take a multi semester college course to fully understand. Capital is one of the premier private colleges of music, yes better than berkely. And they offer a 3 semester course on counterpoint alone.

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If anybody's looking for modern bands that utilise counterpoint, check out Gorgasm and Anata to name but two.

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Can you give me a tabbed example, John?


Ain't hard or special? Fairly different? Weaving sound? Not composing?

What the fuck are you talking about?

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Infinity's tab of Entropy Within by Anata (try over at Rivers Of Gore) has some in the chorus I believe. I don't think it's full on counterpoint but there's enough difference between the two guitar lines for it to qualify as such to these ears.

The examples I can think of from Gorgasm haven't been tabbed but track 5 from Masticate to Dominate has a good demonstration of counterpoint in the bridge riff.

Also, how would everybody class most of the songs on Morbid Angel's Heretic: Counterpoint or polyrhythms?

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If you're talking about this, this is not counterpoint....merely polyphony.


From tabcrawler
Riff 2
^ = Bend, T = Tap
|---------------------------------------------|
|---------2^----------------------------------|
|--------------3------4p3-------------4---7---|
|---2h5p2----5-----------5p2-5/7---2h5------T-|
|--------------------------------0------3---3-|
|-0-----------------3-------------------------|
|
|---------------------------------------------|
|---------------------------------------------|
|---------------------4p3------------T----7---|
|---2h5p2-5p0h2----------5p2-5/7-----5------T-|
|---------------2-1--------------0-3----3---3-|
|-0-----------------3-------------------------|

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Counterpoint is an art, not a science.

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What does this have to do with anything?

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Ah.

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The dead give-away is the fact that there're parallel unisons.

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This is actually called homophony.

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