Could I get some ideas for the best set up with what I have along with setting for Death Metal live? I am not looking for a recording sound but a sound to play live with.

THis is what I have:

Jackson DKGMT Dinky w/EMG Guitar
Marshall MG Series 250DFX
Boss MT-2 Metal Zone Pedal
Boss NS-2 Noise Suppressor Pedal
Boss CS-3 Compression Sustainer Pedal
Boss GE-7 Equalizer Pedal
Boss TU-2 Chromatic Tuner

Any help would be great. Thank you.

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You've got great gear except for the amp and Metalzone. If I were you, I'd sell both and get a good high gain amp, even something cheap and simple like a Crate BV-60, Stealth GT-50(there's 1 on ebay), or a Peavey Ultra 1x12" would kick ass.

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Would these be loud enough for live shows as well?


Peter

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hell yeah they'll be loud enough and even if they do lack a little volume for your taste in a live situation (which I don't think they will) you will be able to mic them live.

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I dont know man, how soon are you playing live?
The reverb and delay on that amp will really make a heavy sound out of that pedal, for a tight situation you could get decent live, but the tone itself is murkey. After a show you should definatly trade up a couple things...but trading the 250 watt for the 60? i mean i know there is a difference in volume between an SS and tube, but not that much. Save up some cash for a head, you could get an extention and use the speakers from your 250 watt as a cab.
all this depends on the rush you are in, if you got time to save up stick with a cheap used head. Most people here sware on the BVs

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I'm moving this to gear.

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Ummm.. the MG250DFX is not a 250W amp man... It's a 100W RMS combo. Pretty crappy sounding at high volumes, that's the impression I got out of it playing through it at TV volumes. You COULD use it live I'm sure it would work I'm sure it's loud enough, but I'd get something better.

All of the amps I mentioned will do gigging with more than enough headroom, less you need to play for 4000 people unmiced...

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No offence man but those MG's suck big time, the other guitarist in my band uses one and its balls. I've listened to your stuff and it kicks ass, you deserve a decent amp! Not sure what your budget is but as people are recommending 1x12's I'd recommend an Engl Thunder, played one the other day and it sounded awesome.

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As most people here are saying, your best option is just to buy a head (blue voodoo, mesa boogie rec, peavey xxx/5150/6505, ampeg ss-140c/vh140c) (most of those listed come in combos anyway) and either buy a cab or use the marshall combo that you own for the cab, in most circumstances and judging by the fact that you probably have quite a following with your current bloodsoaked stuff you will quite probably be PA'd anyway.

alternatively you could use you V-amp that you recorded all of your stuff with as a preamp and buy a decent poweramp such a a mesa boogie 2/90/2 or a vht 2/50/2 these both can be picked up for around 700$ on ebay (not sure about the mesa) i may be wrong but if im not mistaked the v-amp is essentially the same thing as the pod xt, and alot of people use those for preamps.

but one thing you havent metioned is your budget on spending for some new gear.

good luck!

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i see you use a compression pedal, can anyone tell me what it does exactly?

as jacksonmetalhead said, get an ampeg they're awesome and sometimes pretty cheap on ebay

^ kinda hard to describe it.. it just seems to make all your notes sound more the same volume, so your playing cleans up a bit tighter with a little more punch. the boss site says "compresses loud signals and boosts softer signals for a smooth overall sound."

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I would say under $1000 is my budget. I am hoping I can trade or just sell my Marshall Combo for a few hundred (paid $550 1 1/2 years ago). I would like to get some kind of 1/2 stack or combo would be totally fine as well. As long as it is loud enough for live shows and pactice. Any show we played I would be miced.


Peter

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Why could I not plug my V-Amp Pro directly into the Marshall Combo? Why do I need a pre-amp/paoweramp?

I also have 2 PA speakers (AudioChoice), could I run my V-Amp Pro into those and use it like that?

Everything I have done has been for home recording so working on a good death metal sound for plauing live is becoming a big pain....LOL


Peter

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Will the como give the same sonud as a 1/2 stack version?

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I am in no rush at all. Right now just practicing and working on getting everything tight. So there is no time frame.

Would getting a 5150 head and use it through the combo I have work? I could use the head and play it through the marshall combo speakers?


Peter

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So any and all of these combos (Crate BV-60, Stealth GT-50, or a Peavey Ultra 1x12") would be plenty loud enough?

Do these usually have good enough gain/distortion that I would not need an extra pedal?


Peter

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Yeah of course, just gotta check the ohms at the back, i used a randall V2 out of my Marshal MG200DFX, i'm sure its the same idea. BUt get a cab eventually, haha

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levels your volume and gives you NO picking dynamics. Whether you pick hard or soft, it will always be the same volume. You can sustain for hours, but it does not fade, it just stays constantly until it drops off.
READ:
http://www.blackboxmusicfx.com/oxy.html




The solid state poweramp of the marshall will suck, and does suck at high volumes. Therefore you're plugging the sex of the mesa v-twin into a marshall SS pile of shit, and thats just asking for a tone infection. Tube poweramp is recommended because of its better tone at high volumes.

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A comp. pedal doesn't give you "no" dynamics, you can adjust the aggressiveness and threshold of the effect, to get the desired tightness in tone.

Any opinions on this cab? Good price? Good cab?


http://raleigh.craigslist.org/msg/286699679.html



Peter

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How about this?

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/msg/284996001.html


Remember I want something that is going to give me great sound for live shows, not recording.


Peter

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That cab isn't exactly great, just "good".
And don't get an open back combo, you won't be satisfied.

Since you like your V-amp pro so much, why not get a good power amp and cab to go with it?

This amp has a good, transparent and balanced sound that lets any preamp shine through it: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/msg/299498119.html

Not sure what the US prices for this usually are but I'd say that deal is good. Now add a $1000 cab (if you can do that) and your setup will kill unborn babies

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This is the deal of the century. Seriously. If you don't get this you'll be stabbing yourself for years :-/

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/msg/297209595.html

This cab is a fucking madman. This is not one of the best "for the money", this is simply one of the best.

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Wait; does it have to be in Raleigh? Damn. The amp can be shipped though.

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Looks like that is cash only and he will not ship.

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I think I am going to keep my v-amp pro home for home recordings and get a live amp for shows and practice.

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So are most people saying that I should get a say a 5150 head and a marshall cab? What is wrong with a peavey cab? How would I know what cab is best?

Is a half stack really that much better than a smaller combo or something?


Peter

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theres nothing wrong with a peavey cab, theyre just typically harder to find. You'll know which cab is best when you try them out and one sounds better than the other.
Halfstack isnt really that much better than a small combo, its just that the monster amps with the tones people liek tend not to come in a combo form. Its all the sound you want.

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For the kind of music you play, a 5150 through a Marshall cab with GT-75's would work perfect. Sell the MG (you will never regret doing this), the metalzone, and any other pedals you are not using and put that together with your ~$1000 budget and get yourself that setup. It will work perfectly.

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What are GT-75's?

With a 5150 and a Marshall cab would I just need an overdrive pedal or anything else? What about from the pedals I have? I use them all now.

Are the only 5150's available used? Do they not make new ones anymore?


Peter

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GT-75's are a type of speaker, most marshalls have them stock. You would not need any pedals for distortion with a 5150, and they can be had all over ebay and craigslist for cheap.

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I had that exact same setup before. 5150 head w/ the 1960 cab. It sounds great but you're not gonna get super-tight compressed tone w/ out any other effects/pedals/etc. Chances are if you're into death metal, most amps wouldn't sound perfect-to-your-tastes just alone. I used a BOSS Ge-7 eq in the loop and it sounded perfect for most modern metal tones.....also, if you're not familiar with any of these gears, do some research or go out and try them if you can, just so that you're not buying shit that you don't know much about.

EDIT: My rig was a little old, but I sold the whole thing on craigslist for $700 so I'm sure you could get a decent condition one for around that price.

+1 I'd say look at 5150's if you have the money and pair it with your EQ. Or I'd second the Ampeg VH-140C for a more old-school DM sound.

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I'd say the a stock 5150 alone sounds raw for Hard rock, or if cranked, you can get some clasic metal, but alone, it isn't enough for DM, you'll need some external effect.

Umm, plenty of death metal and metalcore bands use bare-bone 5150 setups and they pretty much slay everything tonewise. The last thing a 5150 needs is a boost/overdrive...

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Dude, what are you on??!!!

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Anything with FIVE preamp tubes is going to eviscerate unborn fetuses even at bedroom levels, I don't know what the hell he's talking about.

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If that tone alone is your ideal metal tone especially for DM.......I don't even know what to say. I've owned it for a year, in addition to trying out numerous other 5150's/6505's, you're seriously telling me that at bedroom levels, that amp has a dead-on perfect DM tone.....

And you're telling us that the most commonly used modern high gain amp used by death metal bands these days is only good enough for cranked rock?

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The 5150 has about 10x more gain than is even remotely necessary for any music ever. It dosent need ANYTHING as far as a boost goes.

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Thanks a lot for the info dude!!! I have a Boss GE-7 as well and the Boss Commpresion pedal. Not need for a distortion pedal?

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I love the old school death metal sound. I did a search on ebay and musicians freinds but I could not find a Ampeg VH-140C. Is that a combo or a 1/2 stack or what? Any links?


Peter

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Opinions on something like this instead of a 1/2 stack?

http://cgi.ebay.com/PEAVEY-5150-COM...1QQcmdZViewItem


Peter

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The Ampeg is no longer made. That Peavey would be perfect, and if you need to be louder you can add another 2x12. The combos are actually biased hotter than the heads. All you need to worry about as far as that is concerned is that the combos sound better than the heads.

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What is the difference from:

Speaker: 4 x 12 in. G12T-75 or a GT-75's?



Peter

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The GT-75's are a bit better.

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IMO from what you've said I'd keep my eyes peeled for an Ampeg VH-140C on Ebay. I think it may be time for Soeru to crack out his list of old-school DM bands that use the Ampeg. It came in head version and 2x12 combo (140w Stereo Solidstate) btw.

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Suffo on Effigy and Pierced.
Immo on Dawn of Possession.
Gorguts on the first 3 records.
Assuck
Cynic I think.
Atheist probably.

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Immo? on dawn? i frekin love everything about that album!

The Ampeg VH-140 seems to be what I need. I just read about 100 reviews on some web site and people rave about it.

Would the combo version be as good as the Head with a Marshall cab?


Peter

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All the bands I love. How about Pestilence?????

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methinks pestilence has too thrashy tone, but hell, that's what you have mids for

Consuming Impulse has a insane death metal sound. One of the best death metal albums ever!!!

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The combo would kick ass and it's more convenient in some cases than a head and cab, but a head with a good cab will inevitably have lots more bass that will punch you in the chest a lot harder when you palm mute. Ideal for playing live. The combos are actually a bit cheaper than the heads. You could buy a 2x12 and use it as a head with a 4x12, you'd get more volume for less $$$.

Keep your eyes peeled on ebay, they're getting rarer every minute.

I doubt pestilence used the Ampeg, as it wasn't so common in Europe. The amp really sounds like Effigy or Pierced in person supposedly, all those oldschool DM records are said to be extremely true to it's sound cause they weren't studio-processed all that much.

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which is why it's so ballin

Thanks for all the info guys. At least now I have narrowed it down to either:

Ampeg VH-140C (head and 4x12cab) or the Peavey 5150 (head and 2x12 cab).

From the sound of it I cant go wrong with either one.



Peter

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Try a 5150 first, you CAN go wrong. It has a very distinct characteristic in the mids that can't be dialed out - people either hate or love it..

The 5150 is a great amp, but it's not for everyone.

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AMPEG AMPEG AMPEG. Buy 2 of them.

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Must admit I'd prefer the Ampeg too, for some reason I just dislike the 5150's sound. The Ampeg sounds more unique and characterful to my ears.

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Dying Fetus and Internal Bleeding use Ampegs as well. I don't know about Atheist and Cynic, although they're two of my favorite bands and I can say they do acheive those sounds well. Their known for having a great early 90s death metal sound, but if you're into other stuff the cleans are better than most (especially for a high gain amp) and the mids actually give it a really thick sound if you boost them a bit, so its rather versatile. And loud too, in my old band the guitarist used a 5150 halfstack and many times I had to turn down so he could hear himself, and when he upgraded to a full mine still kept up fine as a halfstack. Comparatively I like the Ampeg way better than the 5150, probably about the same gain level, but the Ampeg was a lot clearer and defined. Its all opinion though..so at least try a 5150 before you decide, you might like it.

If you do go with the Ampeg, I'd say get a 2-12 combo, and another good quality 2-12 cabinet...then you'd basically have a halfstack that is easier to move around (like in the car and such), and you could just use the combo alone if u were playing at home.

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How about this for an amp to go along with the Ampeg?

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/msg/305904468.html




Peter

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Big no on that, those cabinets were horrendous, unless its an old JCM800/900 4x12 I'd stay away from Marshall Cabs. What you really need with the VH-140C is a 4x12 loaded with Celestion Vintage 30's as they complement it very well. Tight bass and nice full mids to offset the natural scooped tone of the head.

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Can you buy the cabs your talking about new or would I need to get a used one? Any links?


Peter

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You could check out Avatar as they offer a wide range of wiring and speaker options, but like Soeru told me before, "I have heard at HC that their bass response aint so great as they're not built extremely as good as something like a Framus, Boogie, etc."

I've heard numerous people mention the VH-140c is devastating through a standard MESA 4 X 12 with Celestion v30's (the wiring pattern on the backplate is suitable for use with the VH-140c.)

A little about the wiring/cab needs for a VH140c:

The above is a little recap from my own VH140 setup inquiry thread but I think it's worth it to post again.

I have my eyes open for a VH140c as well (one just got bought off of eBay for $350 ]. I myself am about to order a Vader cabinet to replace my Marshall 1960... those come with Eminence Legend V128's, which are comparable to Celestion V30's. Adam from Vader cabs told me they do 2 mono jacks ran parallel, and that he could rewire the cab to 4 ohms no extra charge.

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Thanks for all the info dude! I am going to save that.

I am trying to find as much info as I can before I buy something but I know I want the Ampeg VH-140C. The one that sold on ebay was that a combo or just the head? I can not believe it was on ebay. I was looking everyday and then went on vacation for 5 days and just got back today. When was it on ebay?

I ahve head people using the Vader cabs as well. But I myself have no idea if they are good or bad, still researching.


Peter

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The one that was sold on eBay was the head, and $350 was the "buy it now" price. I know, totally ridiculous. I have eBay configured to send me mail everytime a search result with "ampeg vh" is detected, and apparently in the last 2 days someone put it up and it was sold in a snap - it's already an invalid link.

Personally I have never played a Vader cab myself, but of course I have heard and seen them live (Cryptopsy, Suffocation, Dying Fetus, Vital Remains and Necrophagist all used one when I saw them live.) Plus, it'll be a hell of a lot better than my spray-painted & grill-less Marshall 4 X 12 I have now. I'm pretty sure if it's good enough for Cryptopsy and Suffocation it's plenty good for me, haha.

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Posted from Marshall Forum (Didn't know whether you'd check back)

Anyways, I'm going to say it again man, seriously the ONLY amp that you should be looking at is the VH-140C, if you think its hard finding one in the US then try finding one in the UK! There are loads dotted around in the states though, just spend a week or two trawling Harmony-Central Classifieds, Google and Ebay and you will find one. Don't worry about getting the cab, there are loads of cabs that will suit it. I've heard clips and it sounds awesome, plus you've heard the bands that used it, not having a huge budget for producing etc they sound v.similar to the recordings. In the last month or two I've come across at least 2 heads and a couple of combos in my searchings, unfortunately no one was willing to ship to the UK. I don't think this guy ever sold his - http://acapella.harmony-central.com...ighlight=vh140c

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I think I ahve found a guy to sell me one and ship it. $500 with shipping. Good price?


Peter

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Head or 2x12?
Reliable seller? I've heard stories about these breaking down..

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Just the head.

Reliable seller.......I hope so. I am going to get his phone # and talk to him on the phone before I make any paypal payment. He said he would be willing to take a check as well but would need to wait for it to clear before shipping and that is cool.

I fell if I have his phone # and talk to him on the phone things will be cool.

He had the head serviced about 2-3 years ago and since only used it for a power amp for his rack. They are older amps and I am sure they all need a tune up every now and again.


Peter

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SEIZE THIS OPPORTUNITY NOW

$500 including shipping isn't too bad. I'd grab it.

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Hell yeah, if it's a fraud he wouldn't give out a (working) phone number. I'd say go for it - you know where he lives anyway, so if there's any problems you shouldn't have a real problem driving over there kidnapping his daughter of whatever if the amp doesn't show / is not in advertised condition

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Yeah, I am just waiting for him to call me today. He says he has never shipped anything that big and is a bit concerned. I told him to just bring the amp head to the UPS Store and they will do it all for him.


Peter

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Just another questions guys and I am hoping for some quick replies.

Is the Ampeg VH-140C 2x12 Combo the same "exact" as the plain head? basicly would I get the "same sound?

If I hooked the combo up to a 4x12 cab would I get the SAME sound as if I was playing with just the head and a 4x12 cab?


Peter

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