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Old 2007-03-19, 17:32
God-Free
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Scales,Arpeggios and Modes Question?

The C Harmonic Minor scale is the only scale i currently know since ive been playing for roughly 6 months. I have a complete lack of knowledge of theory so sorry in advance for insulting anyone (im learning). What Arpeggios and Modes can be played with this scale and what other Chords can be found in this scale?
 
Old 2007-03-19, 21:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Free
The C Harmonic Minor scale is the only scale i currently know since ive been playing for roughly 6 months. I have a complete lack of knowledge of theory so sorry in advance for insulting anyone (im learning). What Arpeggios and Modes can be played with this scale and what other Chords can be found in this scale?


I think you need to startt wih the bottom up. You're already going in the very wrong direction with learning theory, in my opinion. If you had been playing for awhile i would say something else but since you just started.

You need to learn how to walk before you run. Learn the C Major scale, the C minor scale, learn the basic chords of guitar, learn what a mode is since you say you don't know scales and modes are ACTUALLY scales.
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Old 2007-03-20, 00:03
robbcorpse
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Well ya can't blame him for wanting to learn a really fun scale

But yea take a step back and start with the basics. Understand the Major scale, how it's constructed, how you can build chords out of it. A good understanding of the major scale can take you very very far since it's quite common to derive other scales from the major scale. Pickup some basic chords and chord progressions and think about how they are related.

Then you can branch out a bit, ya know?

Remember to have fun with it, learn a little each day don't make it a chore or an exhausting exercise. You'll find in your day dreaming you're thinking about theory and you're searching for the nearest computer because you want to double check yourself :P
 
Old 2007-03-20, 03:29
God-Free
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Ah yeah I kind of figured i had got ahead of myself. When i first started i was learning Black Dahlia Murder songs and had heard that they play along the Harmonic Minor scale so basically i wanted to see the songs i was playing in that scale.

I do know that Modes are scales themselves C Phrygian was the one I have been learning. (Once again because I had heard is was popular among death metal) Gathering what I could from this site and others I m under the impression that the majority of sweeps are done along Arpeggios but not limited too. Is this true? Because Iíve been having a absolute blast learning sweeps and wanted play some legit ones that relate to the scale I know (Harmonic Minor).

Hahahah I donít know as if I actually asked any questions above, just kind of mumbled. I do know Basic Chords although they bore the shit out of me. Where do I go with them from here? And where could I find some good information on Chord Progressions? I shall focus on some more basic scales.

Thanks Dudes!
 
Old 2007-03-20, 04:24
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Technically an arpeggio is a "chord" played out in individual notes.

So yes you could say the majority of sweeps are arpeggios. But then again apples to oranges. Sweeping is a picking technique, it has nothing to do with theory hah.

Yes Black dahlia murder plays in C harmonic minor and also F harmonic Minor.

Until you feel you've actually mastered the feel of the different keys/scales on the fretboard i would relax about other things. It would appear that knowing where to move and go smoothly is probably oneo f the most important things.

But hell you said you just started, at 6 months in you'll need a hell of alot more basic musicianship before getting indepth in theory or technique.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
About requiem. Aint it the truth...
 
Old 2007-03-20, 15:16
JonR
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WARNING: TOO MUCH INFO approaching...

Here's a comparison of various scales in half-steps.
You can test them out by playing them up one string (each fret is a half-step, as you probably know )

This is not about technique, of course - you wouldn't actually play a scale just on one string! - but about seeing the structure and hearing the sounds, how the notes relate to the scale root.

The numbering convention relates to the major scale (considered the basis of all western music, familiar to most of us as "do-re-mi-fa-so-la-ti-do"). We call that one 1-2-3-4-5-6-7, so other scale types contain flat or sharp alterations. The more flat notes, the "darker" the sound.
(You'll see that Lydian is the only scale brighter than major.)
Code:
HALF-STEPS: | | | | | | | | | | | | | frets: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 MAJOR: R . 2 . 3 4 . 5 . 6 . 7 R (aka ionian mode) MAJOR PENTATONIC: R . 2 . 3 . . 5 . 6 . . R AEOLIAN: R . 2 b3 . 4 . 5 b6 . b7 . R (natural minor) MINOR PENTATONIC: R . . b3 . 4 . 5 . . b7 . R (standard rock solo scale) BLUES SCALE: R . . b3 . 4 b5 5 . . b7 . R HARMONIC MINOR: R . 2 b3 . 4 . 5 b6 . . 7 R other major modes: MIXOLYDIAN: R . 2 . 3 4 . 5 . 6 b7 . R LYDIAN: R . 2 . 3 . #4 5 . 6 . 7 R other minor modes: DORIAN: R . 2 b3 . 4 . 5 . 6 b7 . R PHRYGIAN: R b2 . b3 . 4 . 5 b6 . b7 . R "half-diminished" mode: LOCRIAN: R b2 . b3 . 4 b5 . b6 . b7 . R Some other cool scales: PHRYGIAN DOMINANT: R b2 . . 3 4 . 5 b6 . b7 . R (5th mode harmonic minor) DOUBLE HARMONIC: R b2 . . 3 4 . 5 b6 . . 7 R (used on "Misirlou")

...and some jazz scales (just in case, by some bizarre mischance, you're interested... ):
Code:
MELODIC MINOR: R . 2 b3 . 4 . 5 . 6 . 7 R ALTERED: R b2 . #2 3 . b5 . #5 . b7 . R (7th mode melodic minor) LYDIAN DOMINANT: R . 2 . 3 . #4 5 . 6 b7 . R (4th mode melodic minor) W-H DIMINISHED: R . 2 b3 . 4 b5 . #5 6 . 7 R H-W DIMINISHED: R b2 . #2 3 . #4 5 . 6 b7 . R WHOLETONE: R . 2 . 3 . #4 . #5 . b7 . R PHRYGIAN major 6: R b2 . b3 . 4 . 5 . 6 b7 . R (2nd mode melodic minor) LOCRIAN major 2: R . 2 b3 . 4 b5 . b6 . b7 . R (6th mode melodic minor)

Once you know these scale structures, you can work out your own patterns across the strings, either by matching notes by ear, or by taking a pattern you know, and raising or lowering whatever notes are necessary.

The important thing is the root (or tonic), and the other notes' relationships to it.

Chords - a MUCH bigger subject! - can be derived by taking alternate steps of a scale. (Any scale apart from the pentatonics.)
Start from any note, call that the 1st (the root of the chord), and take the 3rd and 5th notes up from there. This will give you 7 chords per scale - if the scale has 7 notes! You will get a mixture of major, minor and diminished chords (and augmented chords from harmonic and melodic minor).
(Because of their repetitive symmetry, the diminished and wholetone scales only give you two different chords each...and each one is the same type.)
With the jazz scales, only the chord harmonised from the scale root note is relevant (but that can include 7th and 9th, and maybe 11th and 13th, counting up in 3rds beyond the octave (8th)).
 
Old 2007-03-20, 16:23
robbcorpse
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Awesome JonR, very informative and a great read as well!

I just wanted to note, even though it might be obvious to others, to be aware these are single string scales so if you play the major scale on the E string as it is above starting on open E string, you get E Major. Obviously, bring that pattern down a string and you've got A Major starting on the open A string. Move the pattern to say the third fret on the E string and you've got G Major.

I dunno for some reason that wasn't obvious to me when I first started to dabble in theory.

Chord Progression theory is all over the place, wander over to http://www.wholenote.com/ and punch in "chord progression". Should be a few articles to get your feet wet.
 
Old 2007-03-20, 17:10
God-Free
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wow! thanks man. that was informative and easy to understand. definitely going to be messing around with this stuff everyday.
 
Old 2007-03-20, 18:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmfreak
I think you need to startt wih the bottom up. You're already going in the very wrong direction with learning theory, in my opinion. If you had been playing for awhile i would say something else but since you just started.

You need to learn how to walk before you run. Learn the C Major scale, the C minor scale, learn the basic chords of guitar, learn what a mode is since you say you don't know scales and modes are ACTUALLY scales.


Nah, the dude's doing fine. That's the exact direction I took. Learn some obscure stuff then close in on normal stuff, should actually make quite an explorative guitarist out of you if you ask me.

And that's dumb what The Black Dahlia Murder do, playing the scale in specific roots. You are going to get ideas recurring VERY quickly.

Arpeggios/chords in harmonic minor?

From looking at it, if the root is A, you can get:

Code:
A m A m maj 7 A sus 2 A sus 4 B dim B dim 7 C aug D m D dim D dim 7 D sus 2 D m 7 D m 6 E maj E aug E aug 7 E 7 E sus 4 F maj F maj 7 F m F m maj 7 F dim F dim 7 F 6 F m 6 G# dim G# dim 7 G# aug


Although some of these chords overlap, like the augmenteds.

The 'official' chords of each scale are:

Code:
A m B dim C aug D m E maj F maj G# dim


Have fun!

Oh, and the major scale, or chord anyway, is considered the centre because it is the most natural resonance in the world. The natural harmonics of strings are the tones of the major chord.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatdanny
Also, check out Autopsy, the vocalist sounds like hes about to eat your grandmother while fucking you in the eye. Brutal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by floridadude
I coated the end of a toothpick with Satan's blood and simply wiped it across the top of an omelet. PERFECT!

Last edited by Unanything : 2007-03-20 at 19:04.
 
Old 2007-03-21, 17:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unanything

And that's dumb what The Black Dahlia Murder do, playing the scale in specific roots. You are going to get ideas recurring VERY quickly.


its not just black dahila murder. Nearly every band does this. Like 99.9% of bands might pick like 3 or 4 scales and make songs off them, usually banking off of one for the majority of their songs. (Unless you are some progressive band i don't see the purpose of going all over the map with different keys and scales)

I'm not saying reoccuring ideas don't come up because that is definitely one large problem with sticking to a set sound and what not. (Thats generally what sticking to a scale or key will do to you)

Thats why now and again i'll be like i'm gonna do... X random scale and i'll usually come up with new ideas to produce a song. I'll hear what it sounds like then all of a sudden almost instantly have an idea thats new and fresh from my usual stuff.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
About requiem. Aint it the truth...
 
Old 2007-03-21, 17:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmfreak
its not just black dahila murder. Nearly every band does this. Like 99.9% of bands might pick like 3 or 4 scales and make songs off them, usually banking off of one for the majority of their songs. (Unless you are some progressive band i don't see the purpose of going all over the map with different keys and scales)

I'm not saying reoccuring ideas don't come up because that is definitely one large problem with sticking to a set sound and what not. (Thats generally what sticking to a scale or key will do to you)

Thats why now and again i'll be like i'm gonna do... X random scale and i'll usually come up with new ideas to produce a song. I'll hear what it sounds like then all of a sudden almost instantly have an idea thats new and fresh from my usual stuff.


I know, but for a band that have interest in scales, and quite often have a very scalic sound. But you know what I mean, sticking to the same root or key. It's especially narrow when you are conscious of and deliberately using scales.

Anyway, what do we think of the chords I worked out?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatdanny
Also, check out Autopsy, the vocalist sounds like hes about to eat your grandmother while fucking you in the eye. Brutal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by floridadude
I coated the end of a toothpick with Satan's blood and simply wiped it across the top of an omelet. PERFECT!

Last edited by Unanything : 2007-03-21 at 17:37.
 
Old 2007-03-21, 18:54
God-Free
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Thank you for all the Chords... im siked its definitely going to open up alot of different options with the Harmonic Minor scale. now i just need to learn Harmonic Minor in other keys which shouldnt be too difficult since i do know it all over the fret board in a Key of C. It might take some time because i want to figure it out for myself rather then just look up a tab for say G Harmonic Minor.

I've noticed that most of the songs of Black Dahlia Murder that i have learned from tabs are in E Harmonic Minor. (Until The Last Grave Has Emptied, Elder Misanthropy and Closed Casket Requiem) Am I wrong? and they do sometimes go out of scale, is this legit? and do most bands do that?

Hahaha sorry i keep going on about The Black Dahlia Murder, makes me sound like i worship them or something... i just figured they'd be a good introduction to learning metal and now since i know a few of their songs im trying to figure out how they were writen.
 
Old 2007-03-21, 22:45
robbcorpse
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This has been a really informative thread for me as well, thanks guys!

Question though, how do you go about learning a new scale in a new key? Say for example you knew the A blues (or within this thread context C harmonic Minor) how do you go about learning the new key?
 
Old 2007-03-22, 14:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbcorpse
This has been a really informative thread for me as well, thanks guys!

Question though, how do you go about learning a new scale in a new key? Say for example you knew the A blues (or within this thread context C harmonic Minor) how do you go about learning the new key?


Transpose. The 'shapes' are constant. If you know A blues... move that whole pattern up 2 frets and you're playing B blues, one more fret would be C blues... etc...
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Old 2007-03-22, 15:12
robbcorpse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davie_gravy
Transpose. The 'shapes' are constant. If you know A blues... move that whole pattern up 2 frets and you're playing B blues, one more fret would be C blues... etc...


How about for learning it across the fretboard? Take the shape, find the root, construct the shape and play?
 
Old 2007-03-22, 17:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Free
Thank you for all the Chords... im siked its definitely going to open up alot of different options with the Harmonic Minor scale. now i just need to learn Harmonic Minor in other keys which shouldnt be too difficult since i do know it all over the fret board in a Key of C. It might take some time because i want to figure it out for myself rather then just look up a tab for say G Harmonic Minor.

I've noticed that most of the songs of Black Dahlia Murder that i have learned from tabs are in E Harmonic Minor. (Until The Last Grave Has Emptied, Elder Misanthropy and Closed Casket Requiem) Am I wrong? and they do sometimes go out of scale, is this legit? and do most bands do that?

Hahaha sorry i keep going on about The Black Dahlia Murder, makes me sound like i worship them or something... i just figured they'd be a good introduction to learning metal and now since i know a few of their songs im trying to figure out how they were writen.


Don't memorise it on the fretboard, like what fret and stuff.

You are better remembering the shape of the scale on the fretboard and the order of the intervals. Therefore you don't have to depend on what key you are in. What if you change tuning, or are just in another? Or are just in another key?

I can often finish a phrase by sliding down or up harmonic minor simply because I know the intervals as opposed to where it si in a key.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatdanny
Also, check out Autopsy, the vocalist sounds like hes about to eat your grandmother while fucking you in the eye. Brutal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by floridadude
I coated the end of a toothpick with Satan's blood and simply wiped it across the top of an omelet. PERFECT!
 
Old 2007-03-23, 03:39
God-Free
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ah yes this is how i know the scale by the shapes not by the notes. I just move the shapes i know to fit a different key so i move the shape i know in C to the Fifth fret and i have A Harmonic Minor. Is this Incorrect? Im beginning to under stand intervals now that i've gathered some information on the major scale.

I wondered that about tuning. So if i put my guitar in in C standard i would be playing the shape of C Harmonic Minor that i know on the 8th Fret at the open position?

Dudes Thanks again... This has seriously gave me a huge jump start into understanding the proper use of scales, chords, and arppeggios!
 
Old 2007-03-23, 15:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbcorpse
How about for learning it across the fretboard? Take the shape, find the root, construct the shape and play?


They all move. For example, every pentatonic shape moves according to key. If you know Em pentatonic across the board, move every shape up 2 frets and you now know F#m pentatonic across the board. The key is the shapes are constant, it's the position you play them at that moves (according to key).
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Old 2007-03-23, 16:08
robbcorpse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davie_gravy
They all move. For example, every pentatonic shape moves according to key. If you know Em pentatonic across the board, move every shape up 2 frets and you now know F#m pentatonic across the board. The key is the shapes are constant, it's the position you play them at that moves (according to key).


Ah yes this makes sense. I probably knew this but just didn't think about it correctly. Thanks!
 
Old 2007-03-24, 18:04
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Yeah this is definitely how i now go about it. For instance last night i was shit faced playing my friends guitar while i was trying to do some improv lead over some random song he was playing. He asked me what key it was in (obviously i have no fucking clue haha) so i searched for that "age old" shape that i know how to find a root note. (of a minor scale)

This is the shape that i got memorized.

1--------3----4
1(R)----3----4

if that makes sense. Basically if you play this right here on any of strings (other than the "b" string) it will give you the minor key.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darko
...Its very annoying to keep having to hear some socially-disabled teen come on these boards talking about all the drugs he's started doing so that he can maybe grasp onto some kind of positive response so he feels better about himself and what he's doing.
About requiem. Aint it the truth...
 
Old 2007-03-24, 18:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Free
ah yes this is how i know the scale by the shapes not by the notes. I just move the shapes i know to fit a different key so i move the shape i know in C to the Fifth fret and i have A Harmonic Minor. Is this Incorrect? Im beginning to under stand intervals now that i've gathered some information on the major scale.

I wondered that about tuning. So if i put my guitar in in C standard i would be playing the shape of C Harmonic Minor that i know on the 8th Fret at the open position?

Dudes Thanks again... This has seriously gave me a huge jump start into understanding the proper use of scales, chords, and arppeggios!


Yes, you'd be playing Harmonic Minor, only it would then be G# Harmonic Minor. Don't even think in fret numbers. Just think intervals, and their order.

Basically, if you are playing those intervals in that order, you are playing Harmoinic Minor.

Next, you should learn their modes methinks.

Code:
Aeolian Natural 7th (commonly Harmonic Minor) Locrian Natural 6th Ionian Augmented (commonly Harmonic Minor) Dorian Augmented 4th Phrygian Major (commonly Phrygian Dominant OR Hypo-Harmonic Major) Lydian Augmented 2nd Locrian Diminished 7th (commonly Natural Diminished)


I know I might get a couple of dudes going "oh no, it's actually called this", or maybe I won't, but for those who would state as previous, then these are names that I have come up with and believe are the most accurate based on my own long-developed knowledge of intervallic theory, and not on an Internet scale dictionary of sorts, as handy as they are.

Next, you should jump over to melodic minor. If you thought the world of harmonic minor was vast, well...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatdanny
Also, check out Autopsy, the vocalist sounds like hes about to eat your grandmother while fucking you in the eye. Brutal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by floridadude
I coated the end of a toothpick with Satan's blood and simply wiped it across the top of an omelet. PERFECT!
 
Old 2007-03-26, 11:29
JonR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unanything
Next, you should learn their modes methinks.

Code:
Aeolian Natural 7th (commonly Harmonic Minor) Locrian Natural 6th Ionian Augmented (commonly Harmonic Minor) Dorian Augmented 4th Phrygian Major (commonly Phrygian Dominant OR Hypo-Harmonic Major) Lydian Augmented 2nd Locrian Diminished 7th (commonly Natural Diminished)


I know I might get a couple of dudes going "oh no, it's actually called this", or maybe I won't, but for those who would state as previous, then these are names that I have come up with and believe are the most accurate based on my own long-developed knowledge of intervallic theory, and not on an Internet scale dictionary of sorts, as handy as they are.
Those are pretty good names, and I'm not one of those dudes who'd going to say they're "wrong"...
but here's some alternate names I've come across (not necessarily better, but sometimes more fun).

Mode 2: Locrian major 6th
Mode 5: Spanish Phrygian
Mode 7: Ultralocrian
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unanything
Next, you should jump over to melodic minor. If you thought the world of harmonic minor was vast, well...
Guess we shouldn't list these unless he asks....
 
Old 2007-03-26, 20:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonR
Those are pretty good names, and I'm not one of those dudes who'd going to say they're "wrong"...
but here's some alternate names I've come across (not necessarily better, but sometimes more fun).

Mode 2: Locrian major 6th
Mode 5: Spanish Phrygian
Mode 7: Ultralocrian
Guess we shouldn't list these unless he asks....


I think Ultralocrian is somewhat appropriate actually.

Yeah, it is tempting to just go and scroll through each Melodic mode for all of it's arpeggios. Oh, and the second mode is nothing to do with Locrian, far too convoluted from Locrian.

Fuck it. With root of A,

Code:
A m A m maj 7 A sus 2 A sus 4 A m 6 B m B m 7 B sus 4 B m 6 B 7 sus 4 C aug -(trust III to be completely barren AGAIN) D maj D 7 D sus 2 D 6 E maj E 7 E sus 2 E sus 4 E 7 sus 4 E 7 sus 2 F# dim -(wow, VI is surprisingly barren too) G# dim G# aug G# aug 7


I guess melodic minor is more weird than rich with chords... Oh well... I was thinking of the Superlocrian's interesting overlap of augmented and diminished at the time...

I think I forgot the 7 sus's from the harmonic minor bunch. Oh well...

Anyway, names:

Code:
I - Dorian Natural 7th (AKA Melodic Minor) II - Dorian Flat 2nd (AKA Phrygian Natural 6th?) III - Lydian Augmented (AKA Melodic Major (based on trend of previous scales)) IV - Lydian Dominant V - Aeolian Major (aaah! Betcha never thought of that one! :D, AKA Mixolydian Flat 6th) VI - Locrian Natural 2nd VII - Locrian Diminished 4th (or Superlocrian)


I always thought they should have Aeolian Major, or Hindu, as I for a minor key. Oh well...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatdanny
Also, check out Autopsy, the vocalist sounds like hes about to eat your grandmother while fucking you in the eye. Brutal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by floridadude
I coated the end of a toothpick with Satan's blood and simply wiped it across the top of an omelet. PERFECT!
 
Old 2007-03-27, 03:32
God-Free
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Wow thanks! I seriously have enough information to keep me busy for years. In order to play a scale by only knowing its intervals would you have to know all the notes on the fret board? Im just having a hard time trying to play by just intervals, i keep having to go back to a sheet i have with all the note on fret board in order to figure it out.
 
Old 2007-03-27, 03:44
robbcorpse
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I think when you play for years and actively think about theory like this, it'll start to get clearer and easier to see on the fretboard.

I like to work out notes to a scale but it takes me awhile as well. I usually use reference points and count notes if I can figure it out. I got the feeling the guys that posted here have been playing for some time
 
Old 2007-03-27, 10:51
JonR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unanything
Anyway, names:

Code:
I - Dorian Natural 7th (AKA Melodic Minor) II - Dorian Flat 2nd (AKA Phrygian Natural 6th?) III - Lydian Augmented (AKA Melodic Major (based on trend of previous scales)) IV - Lydian Dominant V - Aeolian Major (aaah! Betcha never thought of that one! :D, AKA Mixolydian Flat 6th)

Actually, I have seen "Aeolian major" before - or was it "major aeolian"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unanything
VI - Locrian Natural 2nd
VII - Locrian Diminished 4th (or Superlocrian)[/CODE]
Or "altered", or "diminished wholetone", as jazz players generally call it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unanything
I always thought they should have Aeolian Major, or Hindu, as I for a minor key. Oh well...
But then it wouldn't be a minor key! The only thing that really distinguishes a minor key from major is the b3. Lose that, and you have a major key, or at least a major mode.

"Phrygian natural 6th" is actually a nice scale to use on a phrygian modal chord. Some jazz players would choose it in preference to normal phrygian:

Esusb9 = E phrygian modal chord (E-A-B-D-F) = Dm6/E, or Bm7b5/E
Try 2nd mode D melodic minor: E-F-G-A-B-C#-D-E

To expand the info here...

Lydian dominant is widely used in jazz, on 7#11 (or 9#11 and 13#11) chords. Sometimes known as the "overtone scale" - because of the (false) belief that it corresponds with the notes in the harmonic series of the root. (In fact, mixolydian mode is just as close.)

The altered scale (superlocrian) is also widely used, on altered dom7 chords:
E7#5#9, E7b5b9, E7#5b9, E7b5#9, E7#11b13, etc
- use F melodic minor. 7th mode = E-F-G-Ab(G#)-Bb-C-D-E
Resolves very nicely to A (melodic) minor or A major.

Locrian natural 2 is also quite popular over half-diminished chords:
Bm7b5 = B-D-F-A = ii chord in A minor.
Try D melodic minor; 6th mode = B-C#-D-E-F-G-A-B

Perhaps surprisingly, mixolydian b6 (mode V) is not much used at all.
Eg, in key of A minor, very few jazz players would choose A melodic minor over the E7 chord. This is because of the "avoid notes" - C and A don't sound too good over the E7 chord. The E altered scale, however, has no avoid notes.

(Hey, sorry guys, I forgot this was a metal site... )
 
Old 2007-03-27, 15:25
Unanything's Avatar
Unanything
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonR
The only thing that really distinguishes a minor key from major is the b3. Lose that, and you have a major key, or at least a major mode.


True...

But then, the harmonic minor and melodic minor and every other non-natural scale are based on the fact they have accidentals, so... I take key to only refer to the set of notes the thing is based on.

to be honest, I wouldn't pay attention to where these modes or whatever are commonly used, as least too much. Play the stuff, mess about it, make up some arpeggios out of it, add in notes, form some chords, and make up your own use for the things. Way I've always done it.

And for remembering the intervals, you need to just know the order solid. It's always good to visualise bits across the fretboard too. If you learn the modesand their order, it's possible to look at it as though you are landing on the root of that mode and work your way from there looking at that shape. You just need to know what is where, basically.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatdanny
Also, check out Autopsy, the vocalist sounds like hes about to eat your grandmother while fucking you in the eye. Brutal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by floridadude
I coated the end of a toothpick with Satan's blood and simply wiped it across the top of an omelet. PERFECT!

Last edited by Unanything : 2007-03-27 at 15:29.
 
Old 2007-04-04, 02:59
robbcorpse
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A ways back in this thread, I was having difficulty playing scales in different keys, but through some advice here I applied it and wouldn't ya know it worked.

I know the blues shapes very well and primarily stick with A. I finally sat down and thought about the shapes and how they move and applied that. Granted I was playing the same licks in A, but I finally was able to play them in different keys without getting lost!

A minor thing to some, a bigger thing for me because that same idea can be used for all scales. Funny how things click....
 
Old 2007-04-04, 11:48
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbcorpse
A ways back in this thread, I was having difficulty playing scales in different keys, but through some advice here I applied it and wouldn't ya know it worked.

I know the blues shapes very well and primarily stick with A. I finally sat down and thought about the shapes and how they move and applied that. Granted I was playing the same licks in A, but I finally was able to play them in different keys without getting lost!

A minor thing to some, a bigger thing for me because that same idea can be used for all scales. Funny how things click....


Good man!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatdanny
Also, check out Autopsy, the vocalist sounds like hes about to eat your grandmother while fucking you in the eye. Brutal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by floridadude
I coated the end of a toothpick with Satan's blood and simply wiped it across the top of an omelet. PERFECT!

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