That's the goal. I want that tone to come through like it is cutting through you. I realize this is a combination of numerous things, including downpicking technique, amp, pickups, and studio magic. I've been playing for one year, not in a band, not planning on being in a band, just about to buy a roland cube 30w for bedroom practice and that's it. I have determined that although not the best amp, it is the best option for me and what I am doing.

1. Is what I want to do achievable by buying a couple effects pedals? What kinds? Or do I have to save up 2 grand and get a stack and better equipment?

2. also, would active pickups even make sense with a cheaper solid state amp like the cube? I don't think they would, but please confirm.

Use the EQ section properly, but don't expect to get miraculous results out of using the EQ section of a modeling amp. That works better with genuine SS or tube amps(your cube is a digital modeling amp, not straight up solid state/transistor-based except for the poweramp). Buying an EQ pedal to use with the Cube may help, but EQ'ing a digital amp post-DSP(ie: in the FX loop, as in right after the preamp, which is digital) doesn't generally sound very good.

A pickup swap won't make a modeling amp like the cube sound substantially different, or in many amps for that matter unless the pickup you install is immensely different. Don't worry about pickups yet.

All I can say is: play with your EQ knobs more and in the meantime save up for a better amplifier. You don't really need to spend 2 grand on a halfstack to get an extremely good sound, you can get extremely kickass rigs(including some halfstack setups) for under 600$ these days, especially if you live in a place like the US where used gear is far more common and cheaper.

By the way, before actually shelling out the $ for a cube, how much money do you have to spend on an amp and are you willing to buy used? If so I can suggest a slew of much nicer amps that you can find used.

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Hmm... Up the highs with moderate mids, maybe? Pedals to get would be EQ pedals if anything. I mean folk get good tone without resorting to effects and without too much "studio magic". You don't want a constant effect in all your playing, do you? A bigger amp will also help A LOT, and one that is pure SS or valve, none of this hybrid or modelling stuff.

Just suggestions. Just experiment with some stuff. Half of your issue I would say is EQ tweaking.

I would also stick with passive pickups, personally. Good passives have unbeatable character that will contribute to your tone.

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+1 on the boosting mids and highs. The surefire trick for getting acceptable metal sounds out of bedroom amps is to boost the treble for that popular metal sound, just don't expect that sort of EQ to sound good at higher volumes though.

The amp doesn't have to be big to sound good, I haven't heard many half-stacks or big combos that sounded better than a Tech 21 30W combo I used to have(my first amp, which I loved). Size doesn't matter, just the sound. If the sound is good, KEEP IT. Then worry about making the amp louder(mic it to a PA, hook it up directly to a PA, slave another transparent amp to it to make it louder, etc.). But it's always a better idea -if you gig- to have an amp that has plenty of headroom to be heard alone without any assistance from a PA.

Some hybrid tube pre/SS PA amps can sound great, but I've never played one that does though. Chuck Schuldiner used a rare valvestate model, which In Flames also used to use allegedly, and if that's so I think it'd sound amazing. But AVT's... not too impressed with them.

I'm not a tube nazi. I'm particularly impressed with the Behringer V-Amp 2 and PodXT modelers, some of the shit they do is pretty bangin, but for the price of the PODXT and higher end modelers I would much rather invest in a good amp. Which is why I may be buying a V-amp 2 for practice(like 100 bucks these days).

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Thanks for the responses. I have heard good things about peavy bandit 100w amps, and other amps that are a "step above 30w cubes" but the thing is this: I just don't think I would have any use for that kind of volume... I'm just a bedroom guitar player, trying to learn the instrument, and not planning on being in a band either. I just want a good distortion, cause i love death metal.

Would it be smart to buy a 60w or a 100w amp, and just keep the thing on level 1? I don't even think I'd be able to really hear the full tone until i get it to level 3-4 or something, right? I live in Chicago, so I am very close to neighbors above and below me, and plan on similar living circumstances in the future. I have found that 99% of the time, I am playing at low low volumes to respect my neighbors as well as my roommates who don't want to hear butchered Slayer songs while watching TV. So that's why I've headed down the "30watt Cube" route.

I would be willing to save more money for a better amp, (500 bucks or less, used is fine) but I don't know how smart it would be for me to buy loud-ass equipment and not be able to use it correctly, at a good volume to get the full affect of the tone. What do you think? Is tone the same at level 1 vs. level 8?

How about shooting me a couple recommendations for amps, keeping in mind that I am a bedroom guitar player, I play at low volumes, price new or used under 500 bucks, and I'd like some crushing distortion. Thanks.

edit-- i just started checking out peavey bandits on ebay. they seem reasonably priced. anybody have any thoughts on this?

It's not silly to have a loud amp and play it at low volumes, I mean it's better than having a very quiet amp that will never be able to serve you in a jamming situations. The whole "crank your amp" thing is mostly fiction, don't mind that because so long as you're an apartment dweller you're never going to experience powertube distortion less you buy an Epiphone Valve Jr(5W tube amp).

500$ will get you some great shit, that is great at both playing at home and all-out gigging.

The thing that came to my mind instantly is the Ampeg VH140C. The SS-140C is the same thing just slightly older. A heavy ass(80lb.s) 2x12 combo, legendary amongst death metal bands in the early 90's/late 80's. Easily the most brutal sounding solid state amp ever made, you won't get any more over the top than that without spending more than your monthly salary. Used by Suffocation, Immolation, Dying Fetus, Assück, Gorguts, Cynic, and many others.

There are like 5 of these on ebay right now, I suggest you grab yourself one as they're moderately rare, they sell for as little as 280$, though I've seen em sell up to 400 but never over 500$. Well worth the price really, I'd love to own one. It's 140W RMS, stupid loud if you want it to, but it'll sound great at any volume, but of course it's meant to be played loud.

Used, under 500$, I would get this even if I was always forced to play quietly, simply because of the legendary stature of the amp and price. If you need the smaller size/weight of a 1x12, a great alternative would be the SS-70, same as the above but in 1x12" format, a bit cheaper. Or if you want to go with tubes, a Peavey Bravo 112, 25W all tube amp(very loud because it's tube mind you), which has a very high gain Marshall voicing, which I'm sure will appeal to you if you like Slayer and stuff, but it can presumably get more brutal than that.

Another wonderful 30W amp(mind you, many 30W amps will get loud enough for jamming with an unmiced drummer).

Tech 21 Trademark 30. It was the first amp I ever had, and absolutely the best value purchase I've ever made. Extremely versatile, great distorted sounds, very responsive amp. They're 300$ nowadays, I bought mine for 270$ over a year ago when I got my first electric rig, but sold it when I moved and now I have a loud ass tube amp to annoy the neighbor's with.

But if I were you I'd hunt down that VH140C because it's my taste in tone, just brutal fuckin rawness with a great clean channel.

Oh and pass on the Peavey Bandits, with well under 500$ you can reaally do much better.

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thanks a lot man. this helps a lot. you sold me when you describe "Suffocation-like tones" coming out of that ampeg.

the new plan is to refocus the search, keep that cube 30watt at the bottom of the list, but start searching for those ampegs, etc. to listen to those tones and check them out. i figure, a new 30watt cube is 240 bucks, so i might as well spend 100 bucks extra and ensure a better quality amp that i will be happy with for a longer time.

http://65.254.79.230/AmpegLeadTest.mp3

http://65.254.79.230/taptest.mp3

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Try this.
-Use your bridge pickup
-Cut lows on amp
- Turn up a little bit of precense (just to make it sit well)
- Get a comressor (Not pedal. RACK)
- Moderately heavy compression ratio
- Set your threshold as close to the loudest your going to play
-Set your attack to about... .500ms - 1ms (this is so the higher frequencies will pass the threshold unafected
-Set your hold to moderately fast. (This is to compress the lows that are interfering with your cutthrough)

Try it. Tell me what happens.

I also don't agree with boosting the highs. IF THAT is part of what your going for then yes. But it may only make the guitar sound harsh and nasty.
Try cutting lows so they don't cloud the higher frequencies.

Dude trust me I've played on lots of crappy amps and... they're really not that crappy.

Excellent point.

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For under 500$ he can do infinitely better with many used out-of-production amps than any storebought Line 6, Cube, Behringer combo, AVT, MG, and so forth, all of which I've played in search of a combo amp for jamming out and was thoroughly disappointed with for the most part because they're priced so unreasonably.

Seems a little overkill to get a rack compressor for someone who just plays at home in an apartment. You should be able to get acceptable sounds just using the EQ. If not then you'd best look for another amp.

Definitely pick up one of those Ampeg's or a Peavey Bravo if you can man, or if you'd much rather be able to try one out then look for a Tech 21 as they're easily found in stores. But even having never played a VH that's one amp I would buy blindly, even for much more money.

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I don't think that cutting lows is always the way to get it sounding razor-sharp.. I'd get an amp with a presence control, stick it on 10, mid on about 3 or 4, treb on 6 or 7 and bass on 6 or 7, it kills face!!! I'm pretty sure that's the tone Slayer used on RiB, plus they had passive pickups which makes it THAT raw!!! Ever heard a band Gammacide? They recorded their whole album on 50 Watt marshalls using the 'slayer-tone' - totally killer sound!!!

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Btw, most combo amps at least in that price range do not have presence control.

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How bout asking me? Eric Tripton. Making new amps that are Soldano,Engl-ish with the power of an old Plexi...very loud, very biting, full of headroom.

I think part of the point was it's supposed to sound great without being loud.

Do you have a linky to these amps?

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What the exact link with the Soldano, SLO-100 circuitry or similair?

On topic; learn how to play tighter first, if you're only playing for a year I bet you can improve lots. Most kids that play for a year are sloppy as hell. I know I'm generalising here but it's true for most kids I teach. They can play the stuff they want to learn but it takes them a long time to perfect it.

What guitar are you playing anyway? And with what pickups?

A 'silly' Cube should still sound pretty sharp. Sure it's no metal beast but you can always but another amp, though I reckon there's probably more to gain in your playing first.

Sorry for hijack, I'm just stunned to see a Tripton from Chi-Town!!!
I agree a strong wrist helps however a responsive amp makes it all the better.
Calling all Triptons!!!!!!!!!

revisiting this thread i started awhile back...

for all of you wondering - Formulaet is my cousin. just reconnected with him on a personal message.

i've gotten better in these 8 months or so since i started this thread. The hand strength and just plain old practice has helped quite a bit, but as Def said- i am still very sloppy.


I think the main issue is that i am using an entry level guitar (LTD M100) on a Ampeg SS70 with a Noisegate. The noisegate really has helped. I'm looking to upgrade to a better guitar (no more bolt-on construction) in the next 6 months with some better pickups and I think that will get me closer to my goal. The Ampeg is perfect for me being a bedroom player that can't put the volume up past 4.

Also, thinking about investing in an EQ pedal as well. But I think a better guitar is the first thing that i really want.

bolt-ons aren't necesarily bad. Cheap bolt-ons are bad. But yeah, a new guitar is a good idea.

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