I've been really considering to minimize my Engl half-stack(see signature) to that of a preamp rig only. As I'm also going to buy an Ampeg SS-70 combo amp soon, I won't really need another amp that can be cranked loud as shit but can't be transported easily(ie: my Engl half-stack). I only really want to use my Engl Fireball for recording. I don't plan on gigging in the foreseeable future, and the Ampeg I'm going to buy will more than suffice for practice and rehearsal(and recording too).

So here's my question. How does the Engl E530 preamp sound compared to the Engl Fireball's preamp? It is essentially the same right? Just with individual EQ for each of the 2 channels and stereo FX loop unlike the fireball. But it also runs 4xECC83 preamp tubes like the Fireball so I'm guessing the sound is exactly the same?

I would be running the E530 unamplified, through a good guitar DI box into a USB recording interface to pull together some near-pro recordings. Then perhaps later on acquire a Peavey tube PA and 2x12" cabinet should I ever need all that headroom.

How does this idea sound? Given that I will only use the Engl head I have for recordings, should I simply strip down my tube rig down to just the Engl preamp? Let me hear your input on this, I think it's going to produce killer results for what I'm doing. Thanks!

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Well I owned the E530 before I sold it and my poweramp to get a Powerball. The E530 is extremely flexible, ill give it that. However it didnt seem to mate will with an EL84 poweramp. As far as recording goes, the E530 has frequency compensated outputs that have 4x12 cabinet emulation for recording, and they work pretty well. The E530 also uses 2 12AX7's, not 4. All in all its a good preamp, but it defnitely comes in second place behing the Power and Fireball amps.

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Only 2? How brutal does it get? Would you reccomend downsizing my rig to this considering what I want to do with it? Or will it simply not cut it enough compared to my Fireball? I wouldn't be using this through a poweramp for micing so I'm not concerned with that.

I go for mostly modern high gain sounds(tech./brutal DM, some thrash and grind, but I need smooth mid-fat lead sounds), will the E530 deliver this?

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When played through the same cab, the E530 with a Mesa 20/20 poweramp wasnt nearly as brutal as a Powerball. And im assuming that the Fireball's distortion is about the same as the Powerballs. The E530 has great cleans and overdrives, but the distortion is a little more top endy with less meat in the bottom. Although this was playing through a poweramp without the cab emulator, playing with the cab emulator smooths the top and adds beef to the bottom which I imagine would sound pretty good recorded. So in short, I think you would be satisfied with it for recording purposes, and if you ever want to play it live, make sure you mate with a poweramp that has alot of balls. So for the price id say go for it.

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So a poweramp that runs on 6L6's. Don't have any intention of playing live for a while so I'm not worried about a PA at the moment. So the voicing is obviously less bassy because of the lack of a dedicated 6L6 poweramp like on the Fire/Powerball right?

Did you ever find yourself maxing your gain knob for example? Does it not have as much tight grind like on the Fireball or is the only difference found in it's EQ response rather than distortion?

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I never actually came close to maxing out the gain. I usually had the gain around 12 o'clock, more than that was just too much. That is of course on the Lead channel with the "Hi Gain" button pushed. I would say that most of the difference is in the EQ. The E530 does have less gain, but a lot of it comes from the balls a 6L6 power section gives to the Fireball/Powerball in comparison. Plus the tone isnt quite as saturated on the E530 because it only has 2 tubes as opposed to the Fireball/Powerball which has 4, 3 of which are dedicated to the preamp.

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the 530 is great, and can definately get brutal, but if you love the distortion of your fireball, don't think you're going to get it from the 530.

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Sounds cool. I love the dist. on my Fireball, I think it's worth what the head costs alone. But I rarely ever keep the gain knob past 10 o clock when using high output humbuckers(ie: Dimarzio Blazes on my Uni or EMG-81). I only keep it at 12 o clock for my Charvel with it's mid-output stock pickups. So I probably wouldn't feel like the grind of the E530 is gonna fall short to my expectations... Good stuff. How would the E530 respond to a line boost from an EQ or an overdrive pedal, could it give it the balls it lacks?

Just wondering, perhaps you fellows could reccomend a tube pre in a similar price range that can nail more saturated sounds/have more balls for recording? Obviously I'd want a Triaxis or E570 but those are out of my price range. I need to know if there are any other good tube pre's out there(and as much as I love SS I'm not interested in the Sansamp PSA-1, as I'm already buying an Ampeg combo and I just want tube saturation for direct recording). Something with 3 tubes or more to ensure fat and tight saturated grind...

Not ruling out the E530 just yet though. Didn't k13m have a bunch of high gain samples with his E530? Like Decapitated solos and stuff. If you're reading this, could you please direct me to said sound samples?

I appreciate the help a lot. Thx.

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Haha!! Kiem did. I asked him for them ages ago, but he deleted them. Check out rocksolidamps.com for sound samples.

Ah damn. Yeah I've heard the RSA ones a billion times before but there's only 1 high gain clip. Guess it'll work fine for my needs, but I'm still not selling my Fireball just yet.

Does anyone know of any similar high gain tube pre's around the same price??

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Hey how about this. I'm selling my Mode 4 cab to a dude for 450 euros(actually 10 more than what I paid for it!).

Maybe I should keep the Fireball get a Koch LB120? It's a power attenuator/dummy load with Direct Outs and speaker and mic simulations. Sounds exactly like what I need! I can get one for 330 euros from Thomann:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/koch_amps_lb120ii8.htm

I'm buying a USB recording interface too with XLR compatibility. Does this sound like a good idea? Then whenever I need to play a gig with it I could either use the Ampeg SS-70 I'm gonna buy or buy a cab.

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What USB interface u want to buy? I am interesed in this too.

Just FYI heavy jerk, you can't use a dummy load/attenuator with your Valvestate as it's a SS poweramp.

A Tapco(by Mackie) Link USB.

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530 kicks ass,

i was about to replace mine with an se 570 (still may do that someday) but i was jamming with it the other day and its juuustt too damn good to get rid out right now also, i dont think its nessicary for me to pay around 2000 canadian for a preamp


i think youd like the 530 d00d

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I was originally gonna get that instead of the Fireball but since I couldn't find any reasonably priced tube PA's around I didn't go for it. But since I'm not gonna use a PA with it for it I think I might get it. Selling all my Engl stack then... (head + Marshall Mode 4 cab)... I could use the extra money.

Thx for the help, I'm gettin the E530.

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Don't worry Soeru, I easilly can borrow equipment for the recording, thanx for the reply. FYI

I'm using a 530. To make some things clear:

2/3 tubes: Only two tubes are used for creating the "tone" in both the fireball and the 530. Tube 3 in the Fireball is the phase inverter, which always goes in the poweramp. Both the 530 and the fireball has a solidstate FX loop (which sounds very, very good may i add - i for one preferred it to the tube fx loop on the powerball).

Tone differences:
They sound very similar. They have the same tone stack, there are only minor component differences in the signal path. The 530 has an added treble control after the tone stack ("yay four knobs!") which works good for dialing out any harsh- or brittleness. The fireball has a tad more bass (very slight tad) and slightly more gain on the lead channel - the 530 has a deeper, rounder, sweeter bass in the clean channel. Oranges or apples really, they can be EQ'd very similar. Compare the schematics of the preamp - they're mostly the same (although the schematics has quite a feq flaws). All comes down to power amp choice on the 530 - right now i have a mesa 50/50 with EL34's, they're going out for 6L6's soon for a little extra thud.

Minor suckage: The bright switch on the clean channel of the 530 doesn't really do much. Heh.

I have a clip doing highgain.. chugg-chord really, it doesn't show off the pristine clarity in the 530, but maybe it'll help you. I was very unfocused and this is done in a rush blah blah (i.e. i suck), but it shows some things. Notice the chuggs lack a certain depth cause of the el34's - i've tested with an ENGL 6L6 poweramp of some sort and you couldn't really want any more depth.

Mahogany axe, all volume / tone on full, emg 81 in bridge.

Gain 6, bass 7.5, low mid 4, hi mid 6, treble 8, lead channel, high gain - contour off (the contour switch is REALLY sweet) volume on preamp 50%, volume on power amp about 35%, presence full.
EH 12ax7 in V1, JJ12ax7 in V2.
Using a ported 2x12 with G12T75's, sounds similar to genz-benz g-flex if you know that.

Here it is: http://fleinsopp.1.vg.nyud.net:8080/~jo/chuggchord.mp3

Glad if i could help.

BTW I'll record something decent tomorrow, it's 4:24 AM here so if i crank the poweramp i'm going to jail really.

One note: i don't like the freq. compensated line outputs that much, it feels like muffling the sound a little IMO. Your taste may differ, but i very much prefer a proper cabinet :-)

Hmm, dont ya think it was a little bright because you had the presence on full?

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Hey man thanks a lot, really informative.

The balls added by the 6L6 power section aren't a major concern for me as I'd be only doing DI recording with it. The main amp I'm buying after I sell my fireball stack will very likely be either an Ampeg VH-140C combo or a Peavey Ultra 2x12 combo, which has a 6l6 power section(probably the Ampeg though, as I don't want my main practice amp to have powertubes).

Yeah it certainly doesn't have that lowend of my Fireball + Mode 4 4x12", but maybe that can be fixed in Guitar Rig 2 where you can add the sound characteristics of 4x12 cabs to recordings. Thanks a lot.

Yeah I'm also selling my stack because I'm starting to get noise complaints.

I'm also interested in the discontinued E620. That one has 3 preamp tubes. It's also a bit less costly than the new E530! Does it have more gain/balls than the E530?

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Btw if you're going to do a new recording, could you try it Direct in with the cab simulated out of the pre? I mean I don't need to know how it sounds through a PA and cab, just direct, as I'm not gonna be using this in a rack setup.

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i have a direct in recording with e 530, but my sound card sucks balls so you wont like it

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Well what Decapitated album has the tone you want? They're all so different :P

Aha well I'd say Winds of Creation and then a more supa tight "Nihility" sound. Also a huge fan of Psycroptic's sound on Scepter.

I'm not as picky with my tone as I used to be nowadays though. Hence I don't think I'll miss my Engl Fireball that much. My plan with a preamp is to just do direct recording with something like a Presonus Firebox and process the sound with cab emulation or stuff like that for my recordings. On the side I'm getting a combo amp for home and out of the house playing, probably either a Peavey Ultra 2x12(essentially a Peavey XXX combo, plus it uses the same tubes as my fireball) OR an Ampeg VH140C 2x12. Depending on which I can find on ebay first for a reasonable price.

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Maybe a little expensive, but interesting for playing at home
http://www.thomann.de/thoiw5_randal...c_prodinfo.html

Actually I did think of that as well as building my own. But they're not as quiet as they advertize em(unless you build 2 boxes around em). And yeah a tad pricey, grabbing some plywood, glue, saw, hammer and a speaker would be far cheaper.

I offered someone a trade for my Fireball for a 620 preamp(has 3 pre tubes) with some $ of course, I hear it's a bit more gainy and ballsy than the modern 530. Seems like the perfect thing for me as I'm also buying a DI box with top-notch speaker simulation and a high end recording interface for my PC. I think it's gonna produce bitchin sounds.

Also found someone that's gonna buy my 4x12 off me, finally.

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I finally managed to put together an eight second clip from a Decapitated song off the Nihility album. I can't play anyway since the god damn input jack oin my working guitar is broken and it deattatches every ten seconds, it originally was longer but it's an idea for that super scooped overgained sound. Notice there is way too much bass involved and too little high end bite, i just don't want to struggle with that input jack anymore. I'm telling you, with the right pickups you could nail the tone on that album.

BTW the 620 and 530 are very similar, the 530 has more footswitch jacks and lacks the lead boost / bright buttons, 620 has a tube fx loop (hence one more tube, they both have four gain stages). I think the 620 is more like the fireball preamp section, 530 between the fireball and blackmore. I am modding my 530 now, all i have to do is replace three caps and a resistor and i almost have the exacto same preamp as the powerball

(Tech part: I am adding a cathode bypass cap to the slo stage and also increasing the cathode resistor to 3,3k, raising the coupling cap from the last gain stage to the tone stack to 100nF and raising the bass cap in the tone stack to about 220nF. A little more saturation, a bit darker tone and improved bass respons will be the difference really).

Edit: Oh god it's so bad it's painful. I'm getting in the recording seat again, lol

http://fleinsopp.1.vg/~jo/ninesteps.mp3

Edit:
This is a little better. Try to ignore the fact that i palm mute all the parts that should not be PM'd and play all the palm mute parts without PM's lol (guitar ain't no sport )
http://fleinsopp.1.vg/~jo/ninesteps2.mp3

BTW, this was all direct from 530 to desk with no post EQ, from the freq. compensated line outputs.

Thanks man that sounds pretty good, although dark. Btw, "Nine Steps" if from Winds of Creation, not Nihility! WoC = my fav. album.

Damn I thought the 620 was gonna have more gain than the "modern Rock" 530. May still carry out the trade with the guy anyway. I was planning on getting new tubes for it(JJ ECC83's) as well as a Digitech Bad Monkey(pretty good inexpensive all-analog overdrive/boost) to use with it. With that + the Palmer PDI-09 and Presonus Inspire interface I'm getting, I think I'm gonna be able to get some killer pro sounds going direct into my comp.

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Well there are tons of tweakability in it :P But now I've sold the EMG's in that guitar and replaced them with some original pickups from a $99 Dean, and gain is running max =/ Tone is pretty craptastic, DC resistance on bridge pup is 8k so they're pretty low output :P

BTW as far as i can see the only difference between a fireball and a 530 as far as gain goes is a 100k load resistor on previous stage and a 3,3k cathode resistor on the "slo" stage in the fireball, while the 530 has a 1k cathode resistor and a 220k on the prev. stage load resistor.

This equals a rough 2.5% more gain on the fireball. I'm not saying there's not other differences, but that's all i see ATM (will look better when i get printouts).

And i meant WoC, not Nihility. I'm probably on glue.

Damn that's a whole lotta info, I take it you're an amp tech or electrician of some sort. Thanks for the help.

I use high output pickups(Tonezone+Paf pro, EMG's, Blazes).

Yeah the sound is real gritty, probably because of the crappy ADDA conversion you get from going direct into a PC soundcard. I'm sure using a DI box with cab emulation and a good recording interface/external soundcard will produce awesome results.

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Yes, the sound lacks that 1k dip you get with speakers and the smoothness and depth of a poweramp If you buy a 50w tube power amp and run it all into a hot plate, then from line out on the hot plate into the DI/cab sim box i'm pretty sure it will sound incredible Pretty expensive just for a recording rig though

Minus the hotplate(I'd use a cab with the master volume at 0 or 1), that was EXACTLY what I was planning to do with my Engl Fireball. But hence decided to sell it for the exact same reason, why have a 60W tube head when I'm just recording seldom can't crank the thing at my apartment?

I hope the fellow who wants to do the trade for the pre still wants to. If we do this then I'll use the 620 until the day I actually play in a band, then I'll either get an amp head or nab a 6l6GC poweramp and cab.

I really don't like the look of rack setups though, but they're more convenient for me.

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