I had court today, and I won!

That's right. No lousy marijuana posession charge for me!

It's ma birfday. It's ma birfday. Been up since yestuday. Eye hurts like a bitch today.

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Felicitations!

Was this related to you inviting a bunch of cops into your house a while ago?

YAY

YAY! You beat the system, MAN! That deserves congrats in all its forms.

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Congradulations man! Like CTL said you're definately a better person for beating the system! Phew.. you dodged the bullet man, you almost had to have mildly appropriate concequences for your actions.

Wow this could have easily been posted on the RTT. I swear every time this guy makes a thread it could have easily been an RTT post and save him alot of flamming and getting shot down EVEN more than what would happen. Hopefully this gets locked, deleted and you get suspended. Again.

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technicallity? or did they just say fuck it?

usually the first pot offense is something courts could give a shit about when they know you arent moving it, dealing it, growing it.

ive notice this with friends whove been caught and hearing about thier brush with the courts. most of them get let off real light<i guess it depends what state and county youre in, not all judges are so kind>

but its like an iron fist in a velvet glove where if they wanted they could fuck you over real good. and chances are if they see you again they may not be as sympathetic.

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They'll be watching you, but that's cool you got out of it. Learn from it, darling.

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I'll be smoking one for you bud!

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......Well learn a lesson

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You should have gotten busted. Go fuck yourself.

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Congrats!!! That is so awesome. In a world where alcohol kills 35,000 people a year and tobacco kills 400,000, pot should totally be legal.

I had a friend who got expelled for smoking in school. All he had to do was participate in one of those "Drugs are bad" meeting things. Now he's being smart about it.

In my opinion, you can do it as long as you're responsible. Smoking in your own house with the drapes closed; responsible. Smoking it at your work place in a poor hiding spot; irresponsible and stupid. Another guy I knew got fired for it at the same store I work at (Although I wasn't working there at the time).

The most responsible thing you could do, however, is NOT smoke it.

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K, here's what happened. It was that incident you referred to, and it was my second offense (at least), and at the trial the cops didn't show up to testify, so I got dismissed. It was SO awesome.

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+1.

You're gay. I'd have preferred you got busted, framed, did jail time, and never gotten work as now you have a nice criminal record. No one cares that you smoke pot and act like a 12 year old.

Cops don't bother to show up to court for a lot of piddling charges like these. I know quite a few people who got off that way. Good thing in your case, since as I recall if he'd showed up you'd be fucked.

Gee, your mum must be so proud

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Your a walking, talking, typing example of why so many people decide not to smoke weed. Fucking tard.

theres nothing wrong with a little cannabis in a while...


I seriously dont see why cannabis isnt legalized when alcohol and tobacco is, wich probably has been mentioned in this topic before.

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Breweries and tobacco fields are in abundance in America, and therefore present a great opportunity to make money by taxing them. Cannabis has a hard time being grown in quantities compariable to cigs or beer in our climate, and therefore cannot be taxed. Same with cocaine and heroin, they get smuggled here in large quantities, but since they are not grown here, the government gets no money for it. The price is so high that someone addicted to it will spend ......fuck I have like no clue how much illegal drugs cost, but let's say that a person spends $10,000 a year on addictive drugs. All that money goes somewhere else besides america and thus, our GDP suffers.

The short answer is that because the government says it's illegal, it's gonna be illegal.

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Hit the nail right on the head.

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i congratulate you.

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the forefathers grew hemp, its a weed and can grow easily here.

actually a hemp industry in america would disrupt the the timbre industry and other industries who have a powerful lobby, hemp can be used for clothes,paper,medicine etc. it would be an instant cash crop.

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Ya know what I love? People who don't smoke pot, so they think that nobody should. Because obviously it makes you a very bad person. And irresponsible.

All I can say is this, I smoke pot every single day, several times a day, and I have for the past 10 or so years. I will very shortly have 2 college degrees (one for accounting and one for business management). My GPA is 3.67, or A-. I pay all my bills on time, or more often than not, early. My credit is great, in fact I will be closing on my house on January 15th (can't wait, studio appartment too small for my fiance and I). I go to work every single day, and have, at the same place for the past 7 years. My driving record is clean. My criminal record is clean. My bosses love me.

I am not trying to brag; just tired of misinformed/closed minded people coming down on pot heads. Most of these people who rag on dope either smoke cigarettes and/or drink alcohol. I just don't get the hypocrisy.

Does pot make you a bad irresponsible person? I think only if you let it.

I like you

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hydroponic warehouses. Where do you think all of our lettuce comes from? And dude, if i can grow a pot plant in canada, you can grow them in plenty places in the US.
Pot is easily growable and taxable, especially with how easily it can be genetically modified. Plus, if it comes from outside of the country, you can put on import tax, which will of course make it pricey compared to closet-grown bud, but hey, it will be legal. If they made it like tobacco, peopel would not even need a growing license, and they could transfer their product to the ciggarrette companies, who would distribute... AAAnd you wouldnt need high scale farms, only bedroom or greenhouse growers at most because of the price... since the price of weed per pound is something like 2 grand vs about 80$ for tobacco... people wouldnt need huge farms to make a profit. Now, taking supply and demand into consideration, this price would sink, but very significantly if its still 10$ for a gram. That, and nobody in the world has the tolerance to smoke 25 doobs of potent shit in a day (full pack of ciggies), the effects of pot last for hours (the high, the down, and the stone) and tobacco lasts what... 30-45 minutes tops per ciggie on a noob smoker... Also, 10$ for 25 doobs is the biggest steal ever, and i dont think it will ever get that cheap. Isnt an order (2-4 joints) in amsterdam at a cafe like 15 euros? If those were normal ciggies... that would be... 3 euros? If that much? So there would be NO NEED whatsoever for amounts comparable to tobacco.

the government is retarded. Just look at their leaders.

.... pot n00b <3

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+1

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Yep. Hemp is so goddamn useful.

I just think legalisation will take marijuana use out of hand. No, they cant stop everyone from using it now, but the measure's in place to 'stop' marijuana use certainly keep a cap on it getting out of hand.
Whether it is that much worse than alcohol or tobacco is another story. Socially, I guess most of the USA are against marijuana use. But imagine it being accessible to the wider community. Im sure MANY people would start, most current users would smoke more, the lower class will be spending more of their money on weed, the government will be taxing to the shithouse and giving the companies what they want (or it they are importing it, a TON of money will be leaving america) and society will take one step closer to going to the shithouse.
BUT, im certain it wont change anytime soon. Hell, legalise prostitution and illicit drugs in the USA.

I don't think more people would start using it. It isn't like it is hard to get now. I can easily think of six sources without even trying.

People who smoke sure do know where to get weed. But when its a matter of walking to the corner-shop and buying an ounce of hash, im certain many more people will smoke. People will be trying it,kids will have easy access to it, etc.

If you don't think kids have easy access to it now then you are living in some manufacturered pipe dream. I think it would be the opposite. When I was in school, it was easier to get cigarettes than weed. And cigarettes are legal. Everyone had weed. And you practically had to blow someone to get cigarettes.

growing up, i always noted how getting dubage was within a phonecall but getting booze always ran the risk of hanging outside a liquor store to get someone to buy it.

this is a a kind of thing now that im older,i would never do for someone underage.

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Fuck you for using drugs in the first place, you deserved to be sentenced.

Congratulations, you're really awesome, and a great role model. Being such a great role model, are you going to give your kids (if any) their first joint on their 12th birthday? Since obviously you can smoke pot and go to college and get 2 diplomas, it must have no or little effect whatsoever.

Seriously, you're awesome and we should all smoke pot everyday for years and go to college and have our bosses love us.

Does pot make you an irresponsible person? Only if you can't control it.

i think his main point is that not everyone that does marijuana on a daily basis is a screw up. the whole stereotypical pot smoker is a fuck up high school drop out that takes orders at a drive thru form people like me and sit at home watching re-runs of I Love Lucy, wake up to Jerry Springer and other daytime television shows

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I do think they have easy access,I didnt say they didnt. But what they will have is easier access.
Low-tech, I reckon it must be different for everyone. Around where I live for instance, I think alcohol is so much easier for kids to buy than weed. Did you get strangers to buy it for you, or someone you knew?

I am not claiming to be awesome, just proving that it doesn't necessarily make you bad or irresponsible, which is apparently a huge misconception.

Whether or not a person can control something that is obviously not harming them does not make them irresponsible, and I really feel sorry for you for not being able to deduce something as simple as that.

Tell me something; do you look down upon people who ingest legal, yet harmful products such as alcohol? I can't seem to remember the last time someone smoked a joint and beat his family. I know of lots of cases where someone got a bit too drunk and got a little too violent.

What about people who take antidepressants? Are those people bad as well? Products like Zoloft and Prozac have displayed quite impressive results; haven't they? When was the last time someone smoked a bowl and killed themselves...?

Or are those substances alright to take because the government hasn't criminalized them?

Sorry you have such issues about weed. You are certainly free to feel that way, but don't attack and patronise me because you don't like what I do.

And, not that it is any of your business, but if I ever do have kids, I obviously wouldn't give my 12 year old a joint any more than you would give your kids a shot of tequilla.

There are lots of people who do things that you might not. However, if they are not bothering anyone, especially you, then leave them alone. This is 2006, not 1706.

I had lots of friends, and many of them were older, sometimes I had them buy them for me. Cigarette vending machines also were more common then than they are now. I never really was into alcohol, so I never had to have anyone buy that.

ouch, dont be so sXe

anybody tried salvia? its completely legal in all places except australia... poor guys. Why is salvia legal and pot not. If you've tried it, you'd know its a complete detachment from reality, followed by none other than a mellow pot-like stonedness.





ps. If you've tried it and didnt get a complete hallucination, you did it wrong, go get some more (40x reccommended) and hit it through a water bong harder than you've ever hit anything and hold your breath.

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Widespread pot usage isn't a matter of how easy it is to get it, it's the fact that it's illegal that makes most people stay away from it.

And does nobody here actually understand how detrimental to your health pot smoking is?

pot smoking detrimental to your health. How old are you?

Listen pot smoking is harmless, but to some it becomes an all out of control addiction which runs their life. Its the person that makes it detrimental to their selfs.

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Dude, pot may be less harmful than ciggarettes, but even a little bit can hurt you. You just don't feel the effects of it.

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around 12-13 years ago there was a time when friends and i would wait in front of one particular store.

we'd approach whoever to buy, sometimes got ripped off, most of the time got what we needed. there was always the element of cops being around and the greater liability fell on the buyer.

when i was a little older we had friends who could buy so it did get easier.

getting weed was always easy, it was more a matter of quality and hassle<in the sense of weight/price ratio and some dealers were self-styled gangsters types who, on occasion were particularly nasty to some friends>.

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Yeah, because destruction of brain cells, lung cancer, loss of short term memory, and impotence are all good things for your health, right?

alot of cancer patients advocate smokeless, vapor emitting paraphenillia for using pot.

smokeless devices are getting cheaper and more improved in design, will probably become the prefered way to smoke to most health consious folks.

this also applies to those smoking cigarettes from which the smokeless devices were actually suppose to address, i may consider quitting by using a smokeless device.

thier still kinda expensive tho, thats the only drawback.

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Eeer tell me you're joking? Right?
Smoking pot isn't risk free, there is no such thing as 'victimless crime'

Newer and stronger strains of hash are being produced which has heightened the risk of psychosis that already exists with taking pot! You don't know when you start smoking whether or not you are likely to be predisposed to organic psychosis (Before you ask, I work with people who are suffering from drug induced psychosis from smoking pot, and these people aren't very old or were heavy users!)
Inhaling Mary Jane smoke still can cause lung problems.
Pot causes short term memory loss.
What about those twats who think it's ok to toke on a doobie and then drive or operate machinery!

Get real!

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organic psychosis?? sounds like the people you work with are hypercondriacs. i too, get anxiety when i did smoke years ago, have had panic attacks on occasion........it isnt the end of the world, just a like tension in a social enviroment. the anxiety lasts as long as the high and when youre comming down off it its like a small relief. its not the biggest deal in the world when it happened and it didnt happen all the time.

as far as potency goes, its a misnomer to think just because more potent stuff is around that people are at some sort of increased risk of endangering thier minds, some people smoke nonstop, most do it socially or on rare occassion. an individual can regulate how much they smoke, and the tendency with weed is to maintain a good buzz, not smoke the whole stash as soon as possible to get high as possible<unless there is alot around, or if you want to arbitrarily waste weed>.

there is a certain limit on how high you can get, after a while you are usually wasting the shit and making your throat sore.

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yo, thread starter, this topic went down well didnt it?

Everytime, i swear, you guys all go in to this big crusade one way or another.

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I can assure you that these people are not malingering, they are very sick and dangerous individuals hence they are sectioned under the mental health act and live in a secure environment! Organic psychosis is a term used to describe psychotic illness brought on by drug misuse or brain damage.

It doesn't matter how you smoke your stash, if you're already predisposed to mental illness through family history or chemical in-balance you increase the risk of becoming ill.

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Of course. Because when your health conscious, your number one way to stay healthy is by smoking pot. I think you were high when you wrote this.

Im laying my battle grounds, as soon as i get back you pot lovers

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Failure of one to realise the dangers of illicit drugs is irresponsible and just as irresponsible as believing that alcohol or tabacco is not harmful. Cannabis is not harmless, much in the way that cigarettes are not harmless, and so using it in the belief that it is harmless could be conscrued as being negligent to one's own well-being (and to others if you preach this wrongful tenet to others).



Yes. Most drunks are incomprehensible bores. I abhor smokers because they get 10 minutes in every hour for a cigarette break when I still have to work. I abhor smokers because, although I don't give two flying fucks if they kill themselves, I don't want to ingest the carcinogens that they spew into the public sphere. Some of the insufferable cunts can't even get on a bus for a twenty minute journey without lighting up and fouling the clean air. That includes the back-of-the-bus pothead brigade intent on showing how hard they are by "smokin' it up on da bus, bruvva".



They're probably too indolent to become violent. All - and I mean all - of the potheads I am unfortunate enough to be acquanted with are lazy and everything in their lives centres around getting stoned. Sound like an alcoholic to you? Because it does to me.



Taking anti-depressants is not the cause of suicide, the underlying feeling of worthlessness that Prozac is trying to counter is the true reason. Think about it; why would an anti-depressant make one more depressed?



Anti-depressants are for those too weak to grow a pair and confront what's going wrong in their lives. Fuck them. That aside, Prozac and its ilk are medical treatments only available on prescription because irresponsible use is dangerous to the taker. This is a clear distinction between a recreational drug such as cannabis.



I reserve the right to criticise you for indulging in illegal activity that directly and indirectly has an effect on me. Those nice chaps you purchase your cannibis from are fine upstanding individuals of the community aren't they? They're not violent in the slightest and I'm sure you'd entrust your child's life with them; sort of like a nice friendly uncle, aren't they? Like it or not, you're funding the distribution of cocaine, crystal methamphetamine, ketamine, ecstacy and heroin in our cities. Thanks.



Why not, if - as you've already stated - that cannibis is harmless? Why should daddy have all the fun when there's enough for the whole family!



See above.

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"Failure of one to realise the dangers of illicit drugs is irresponsible and just as irresponsible as believing that alcohol or tabacco is not harmful. Cannabis is not harmless, much in the way that cigarettes are not harmless, and so using it in the belief that it is harmless could be conscrued as being negligent to one's own well-being (and to others if you preach this wrongful tenet to others)."

I didn't say it was harmless to the body. And I wouldn't say that tobacco and alcohol are harmless either.

"Yes. Most drunks are incomprehensible bores. I abhor smokers because they get 10 minutes in every hour for a cigarette break when I still have to work. I abhor smokers because, although I don't give two flying fucks if they kill themselves, I don't want to ingest the carcinogens that they spew into the public sphere. Some of the insufferable cunts can't even get on a bus for a twenty minute journey without lighting up and fouling the clean air. That includes the back-of-the-bus pothead brigade intent on showing how hard they are by "smokin' it up on da bus, bruvva"."

I don't know what to tell ya.

"They're probably too indolent to become violent. All - and I mean all - of the potheads I am unfortunate enough to be acquanted with are lazy and everything in their lives centres around getting stoned. Sound like an alcoholic to you? Because it does to me."

Like I said in my original post, I have too much crap going on. Obviously I am not lazy. I know lots and lots of people who smoke pot and are lazy. But I know just as many people who don't smoke pot and are equally lazy.

"Taking anti-depressants is not the cause of suicide, the underlying feeling of worthlessness that Prozac is trying to counter is the true reason. Think about it; why would an anti-depressant make one more depressed?"

Have you not heard about specific cases in which these people's symptoms are exascerbated by their anti-depressants? Do a Google search.

"Anti-depressants are for those too weak to grow a pair and confront what's going wrong in their lives. Fuck them. That aside, Prozac and its ilk are medical treatments only available on prescription because irresponsible use is dangerous to the taker. This is a clear distinction between a recreational drug such as cannabis."

I agree that too many people use anti-depressants without getting the appropriate counseling which is supposed to accompany the medication.

"I reserve the right to criticise you for indulging in illegal activity that directly and indirectly has an effect on me. Those nice chaps you purchase your cannibis from are fine upstanding individuals of the community aren't they? They're not violent in the slightest and I'm sure you'd entrust your child's life with them; sort of like a nice friendly uncle, aren't they? Like it or not, you're funding the distribution of cocaine, crystal methamphetamine, ketamine, ecstacy and heroin in our cities. Thanks."

We all go to Wal-Mart and purchase those awesome goods which children manufacture in sweat shops in other countries for pennies a day. Those nice chaps we purchase our cheap products from are fine upstanding individuals of the community; aren't they? No problem for funding the cocaine, crystal meth, etc. Perhaps it the government decriminalized the substance, this wouldn't be the case.

"Why not, if - as you've already stated - that cannibis is harmless? Why should daddy have all the fun when there's enough for the whole family!"

You really need to quote where I stated that it is harmless, because I don't recall saying that.

Sorry if you don't like the fact that I smoke. But that's life and you can think of me how you will. My mere purpose in my post was to try to deter the stereotypical view of potheads. I know lots of people who don't smoke weed, and (I'm sure that this will be taken as an advertisement for pot--it isn't, just proving a point) most of them are not doing as well as me in life. Period. Am I saying that I am doing this well because of the pot? Hell no, I am just saying that it does not take away your motivation and make you a mindless idiot. That was the only point I was trying to make. Not telling people that it is completely harmless or will help them in their lives. I don't know how that was missed in my original post...

I'm at a crossroad with what to post. But i'm going with this conversation as a whole makes me have at least a little faith in human kind.

Thank god for people like Pst and johnmansley. Good use of arguemantive skills with a slight sprinkle of assholeness. Hey and Musician1978 i would definately heed some of the words that he put out. Most importantly the entire point about it being harmful and NOT giving it to your child.

Lets think about this from a logical standpoint. You can't keep making the argument with tobacco and alcohol so just stop. Its not even worth TALKING about whether its harmful because it is. PERIOD. Every stupid pot smoker on EARTH makes reference to.. "well we can drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes" Cry me a river dick face. Seriously look at the sentence i just said above. JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN DO SOMETHING WORSE DOESXN"T MEAN IT ISN"T STILL BAD AND OR WORTH DOING.

Next on the line of logic. If pot smoking isn't that bad then why NOT give it to your child? Seriously think about this. This isn't like comparing it to alcohol for the same reason i said above. We aren't comparing it to anything other than itself. The answer is obviously since we have agreed pot smoking IS indeed harmful you wouldn't do that. OR addvocate it like you are doing now. You are being about as close fucking minded as cigarette smokers back in throughout the 20th century. its finally fucking caught up with all those smokers huh? Therefore by you continuing to smoke KNOWING there are negatives and also advocating smoking it its not that you are so much irresponsible (that MAY be the case) but you're just stupid and or an asshole.


Thats the end of that. Read that over a few times because there is alot of monumental evidence of why you shouldn't even be doing it in the first place other than "we can do alcohol... oh its so much worse" bullshit, thats the dumbest excuess i continue to hear everyday.

Also i would listen to Dalhmersfridge as it would relate to what he talks about, cause you know.. thats sort of his fucking job and his life as it would seem haha

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There you go.

Yes, I have heard of metal illness being exacerbated by anti-depressants. All the more reason to keep tight regulations in place, no?

Your example of "sweat shops" (of which the vast majority are legitimate foreign businesses that wouldn't exist without exporting to the West) is moot in this argument. The fact that we pay them peanuts by our standards doesn't reflect that they earn a decent wage in their own countries. It's called the exchange rate (which I'm sure you're aware of) and making cost savings by taking advantage of this was not illegal the last time I checked.

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The only positive thing I've experienced and witnessed weed do is make people better themselves after quitting it.

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The Mods/tmfreak have a point. I see where you are coming from Musician1978, but trust me, you are definitely in the minority of what I like to call "functioning stoners". It is a harmful drug and just becuase you dont experience all the adverse effects that most people do dosent make it any less dangerous. I have too many friends that quit because they realized that their lives began revolving around it. So like it or not, the stereotypical pothead is lazy and largely a waste of space, because thats what the drug does to MOST people. Just because you can still function normally dosent make it any less dangerous.

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Tm pot smoking is less harmful than tobacco or alchohol combined. Even though pot smoking may cause in some a harmful effect. So i can get where your comming from and you argument is valid at this point


As for handing marijuana to your child why would you want to do that. That would be like someone drinkimg alchohol and handing their child their first beer before their 21(drinking age)? I mean isn't that wrong even though more people would advocate that then handing the child a joint. The reasoning behind this is because people who do any type of drug that is outside the norm of soicety just get stigmitized by well the majority. I mean why advocate the beer at 21? Not the joint? Didn't we all just say they were just as bad?


Well uhh again it is worse Tm, even though it may cause some harmful effects. I mean and what evidence did you show that was none other than mostly your personal opion on the whole argument of Weed Vs tobacco and alchohol? All people dont share those same views. I don't smoke weed but i feel alot of these dudes get stigmitized for being lazy dim minded invidivsuals where as ive met many successful people who smoke out. Where as i havent met many successful alci's. As for the tobbacco who gives a shit that is deadly.

Well in the end i think the scientific community needs to make up its fucking mind on things. It seems one year Pot is bad for you the next its good for you....Come on WTF? Thats like the whole Egg debate that goes on for years and years. One year Eggs are bad for you the next the protein is excellent in them and eat all you want to consume.

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Correct...but Musician1978 is what i like to call a person in control of his addiction if you would like to call it that, he refuses to let his life revolved around it. Where as most people who are weak can be surely shown through their addictions some can actually be strong and very intelligent. People who are weak and cant control their inner craving for things will end up loosing it all in the end, and be forced to get off the floor or stay down and be disposed of. Life doens't deal you a bad hand you do!

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yeah you should have got busted but anyway nice job
my dad's son had the same problem they found a bunch of drugs and still gave him a trial man the system suks

Puncuation was created for a reason. And by "your dad's son" don't you mean your (half-)brother?

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Although i roughly agreed with mostly what you said you still missed the entire point i was making about NOT using alcohol or tobaccos effects to JUSTIFY using marijuana. if you think about it logically you can not make that freaking argument.

Look at this parallel i'll attempt to draw.
Just because people speed all the time and you happen to get caught doesn't justify you being allowed to speed.

Just because something worse is allowed doesn't neccesarily justify that something less as worse SHOULD be allowed. That also doesn't say that the worse thing SHOULD be allowed either. Its just a trivial argument that you simply can not make because it doesnt' argue for it at all if you honestly think about it.

Although my speed lmit thing is slightly not the SAME thing its similar to think about. Just because other people do something or even a majority doesn't make it right. These are all along the same path of thinking.

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Does it really matter as long as the thought is clearly stated? Just curious.

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Good point, typing makes it hard to get the true point across we desire .

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which sometimes obviously puncuation comes in handy. Like i used to use this one all the time ....!!!!.....!!!!.....!!!

One of those moments were you say something and afterwards you would have that like silent but weary face haha. If you get what i mean.

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well its probably the latter, most likely that these people already have a predisposition towards mental illness anyway or experienced brain damage.

anyone who claims to not handle getting stoned<to the point of having to be deemed mentally ill and taken care of in a facility>, who doesnt already have some serious mental illness shit to deal with......is a fucking retard. anyone who claims that pot smoking creates serious mental disturbance and illness, brain damage, psychosis, is either a sheltered academic type who was thoroughly indoctronated into the war on drugs propaganda from the reagan era, or doesnt know first hand what the fuck they are taking about.

even if the person is nuts, "organic psychosis"?, c'mon!, ive have done nearly every drug in the book, every narcotic and can speak from first hand experience. what we are talking here is social anxiety with the potential of panic attacks, lets not go fucking overboard.

shit man, i used alot shit mixed together at the same time. short term memory loss? ill give you that for some folks.

pcp or lsd?, id understand when you say "organic psychosis", ive experience the shit myself<never spent time in a mental ward, but have had some close calls with bad trips>





im talking about smokeless devices, with one you dont actual inhale smoke, you inhale the vapor of the THC.

and yes it healthier for you. shit, name one side effect. these devices were intended for people weaning off cigarettes.

i havent smoked pot in nearly 7 or 8 years, and i dont drink.

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when the fuck did children get invovled?

AAANYWAYS, i'm going to come in with a different angle. To start off, i dont smoke pot, i've tried it, and i dont like it anymore. All my friends do it, i could seriously care less....

Whether smoking pot is right or wrong, dangerous or safe, i dont really care. What i do care about is that the goverment is fucking stupid for illegalizing something they can make tonnes of money off of, that is infact less dangerous than many things that are currently legal. Is this "right"? Take this into consideration. The government KNOWS that tobacco is one of the biggest killers in north america, yet they dont illegalize it because it supplies many jobs for the economy. So which is right, illegallizing it to save lives, or keep it to keep jobs. Obviously neither side has a morally correct choice. So i'm saying, lets get another taxable commodity (sp?). People can enjoy it for personal use. If people are so stupid to go so overboard as to smoke themselves into psychosis, or to get into car crashes, call it Darwinism. What i'm saying is neither side is right or wrong, but lets choose the side that gets us further in life. More money + less population = people with more air to breathe and food to eat, and some chip out of that $3 trillion that the glorious US of A is in debt. Its an illusion if you think our world can sustain our population, and i know its sick to say it, but its also the only way we can prolong our existence. If life is the most precious thing, lets not just make more life, but make LONGER lives.

Now, i'm canadian, i live in canada, almost everybody i know smokes, or has smoked pot at one time or another and i have NEVER even heard of somebody going into psychosis from something as simple as marijuana. And about this brain damage from pot, thats complete crap, i bet their stuff was laced with coke or meth. If you read articles about this, they're mostly either written and published by THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY, and we know how reliable they are, OR the brain damage is associated with COINGESTION with other drugs.

Heres another thing... cannibidiol (the C in THC) acts as an antioxidant on brain tissue and actually protects braincells from glutamate toxicity. It is also more effective than more widely used antioxidants like a-tocopherol and ascorbate... Glutamate is used primarily as a neurotransmitter --> your nerves use it to communicate. In short, your braincells wont die as quickly.

in closing, don't take it personally.... unless you're a scientologist


ps. i forgot to add, short term memory loss? WHOTHE FUCK CARES. If we cared about that, we wouldn't have invented keg stands. If you want to remember something, dont ingest something that prevents your memory from functioning. We do all realize about the existence of that little thing called free will.

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If I want to hit my self in the head with a hammer, I can. If I want to smoke a bowl, I should be able to. I dont like people telling what I can and cannot do. I can go to war and get killed in Iraq, but I can't smoke a little weed every once in a while. (legally)

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Humm its more like 8.5 trillion or 9 trillion now....hasn't been 3 trillion since like 1996.

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i think we all have short term memory loss.

about once a year, we get into this dicussion as if the one last year didnt already address these same points.

maybe with some new members on board.

weed is about as dangerous as satanic heavy metal.

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My life MUST revolve around it because I smoke it everyday, lol. It is a no-win argument that I wasn't even trying to provoke here. I failed, lol. Oh well, I will just continue to smoke weed, better myself as a person with more and more higher education and continue to not bother anyone. Perhaps someday I will see the light.

I'm sorry but nearly none of your arguments are slightly convincing. There is no single reason why the government or nearly EVERY government makes it illegal. (this is alot bigger of an issue than an american issue) Lets keep that in to account for there are those who are more educated in the matter as they're in the need to know kind of basis (those who make law changes and so on)

Also you basically have said that the us government is completely and totally "ok" with smoking which for one can't be proved and shouldn't even be used as an argument. Also like i said before what does this have to do with making an argument FOR smoking? Once again its the same thing i said like 3 times. Just because something else is legal doesn't make it ok to do that action.

As it would relate to how "children" got brought into the issue think about it. If some sort of action is ok and PERMISSIBLE to do why shouldn't you allow your kids to do it? If you plan on making an argument for the legalization of something it had better be something good and positive about it. But even alcohol itself has positive effects if used within we shall say moderation. I'm not going to make a full case for the "positives" of alcohol because obviously the mass majority doesn't use it as it "should be" but regardless hah. Basically the entire argument about children is whether or not if it were a good thing to do then it would be ok to give to your children but most people would INHERENTLY think otherwise then it becomes a real issue.

Anyways back on topic. lets look at this from the whole scope. If you legalize it like everybody claims they want. This would basically be the complete legalization to we'll say those who are "old enough to make the decision to use." Which means making an arguement saying that perscription drugs can sometimes do more damage than they are intended to cure or help can't be made. Because it wouldn't be perscribed to people so it would purely be recreational. Well its a governments job to help its citizens with dangers that pose to them. Also in saying that one should note what the US government currently does as it would relate to cigarettes. If the government outright banned and illegalized cigarettes people would overall be pissed. (Even if that was the RIGHT thing to do) Kind of a checks and balance type of thing. Now with perscription drugs its a kind of side tangent to the general rules of the government but in order to allow them they have HUGE programs testing and preventing dangerous drugs from entering into existance. If people actually knew the DEPTHS that these companies have to go in order to sell drugs to the public they would change their tones a bit about perscription drugs.

Well where am i going with this? Allowing recreational use of something that does damage would be against the governments main purpose and design, allowing it for perscription and medicinal purposes is a COMPLETELY different story and argument all together. But thats not the argument thats being presented. We can't with simple terms and moves fix the mistakes that human kind has made over time. (legalization and backwardsness of the tobacco and alcohol industry)

Also one last remark to this post. There is almost zero evidence you bring that the government could make "oh so much money" off taxing so you can' tmake that argument. Obviously if pot is as easy as it is for personal growth and use then it would make nearly NO money commercially. Sure growing pot in LARGE numbers isn't the easiest things to do BUT in order for somebody to have their own personal "garden" and weed production for their self would be terribly easy. Sure i'll agree that there is a SLIGHT market probably available from the legalization (as it would relate commerically) in my non-experienced and knowledgeable opinion i highly doub tit would be high enough for the government to take seriously.

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Some states have laws that prohibit smoking in public buildings. New Jersey passed one in April banning smoking in any public establishment. It's fucking great, I don't have to suck some asshole's secondhand smoke any more. People overall are happier, it's just a small amount of people who actually smoke who are pissed.

Exactly my point. And i couldn't agree more. To say the government just allows it is bull. Even if they wanted to be all about pro-smoking the public wouldn't allow it. There are MANY states that have these public smoking laws and i think its completely with in good taste. Why allow indirect harm to others? This isn't something even cigarette smokers will contest against. the only argument smokers make against this is laziness and inconvience (having to go out in the cold to smoke) cry me a fucking river you indirectly "kill" and harm people every day. Fuck you.

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to tm: i'm sorry, but i'm havin trouble understanding what you're trying to say... but i want to comment on that last paragraph

you said the government couldnt make much money off of it, or something along those lines, and i believe you set the basis of that off of the fact that its easy to grow. Well, to tell you the truth, tobacco is much easier to grow than pot, but you very very rarely see people growing it for themselves. Now, those who do grow tobacco sell it to ciggarette companies, who then package it and sell it to the public, where something like 60% of a carton is taxes alone. So if we produced marijuanna like cigarettes, there is money to be had. Think about this too, that the "higher ups" of these companies are filthy stinking rich, and the government makes more money off of the sales than these people... so couldnt that mean that there is a fair amount of money there?

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I'm not going to claim i know much about the production of either. Like i said in my paragraph i'm not knowledgeable in this subject. (in the sense that i've never produced it) But i've heard .. just HEARD haha that tobacco is much much harder to grow especially since the enviornment that it needs to be grown (ONLY in the south) and so on.

I just don't see how a hypothetical market could be compared to a current one. (pot vs. cigarettes) I think it is tempting to compare the 2 but its possible that they are completely different and will work completely different.

The tobacco industry is taxed BIIIIIIG time we can all agree but i just don't see how we can say without real experience or knowledge that the marijuana industry would work the same. (being profitable if legalized)

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For smoking hell no, would't sale like cigs do because people just get high everyones and awhile. There are the few who get high hours on end everyday but about it. But mairjuana could be used for millions of things like cloths medicine, it would basically just ruin the hell out of other industrys. Trust me the goverment will no get screwed in anyway either they will make sure they get their money in the end. I mean its illegal because hell its illegal.......i dont know why just one day someone decided to go hey fuck it lets make it illegal.

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its kinda why i said i mean there is obviously reasons why every single governemnt except maybe like amsterdam and possibly a few others would illegalize it. there are reasons behind it obviously. (as it would seem, and i hope there is) Well hymp clothes and paper and all that IS legal so i don't see why the argument can be made that it would harm other buisnesses. Granted its possible that if made in "much higher more commercialized" ways could prevent it but like proaz said the government would still make their money. Although logger lobbyists could prevent some from voting for it. Money over morality.. hmmm

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marijuana is easier to grow, for god fucking sakes its a weed, doesnt really require much management in a somewhat warm climate.

talking about children smoking weed is an obvious apeal to emotion, legal marijuana would be regulated much like booze where its sold and an over 21 rule. stiff penalty for those who sell to minors much like alcohol.

as far as people growing, its easier to produce than both tobacco and alcohol by many orders of magnitude. alot of people would grow, sell and distribute high quality weed....its just a fact of life and this thing really shouldnt concern the law unless its sold to a minor.

the argument for legalization is that law enforcement wastes manpower,time and money on going after people who deal weed, a drug you cant overdose on,cant have a physical dependency/addiction to, and has no severe permenant effects on your psychological fortitude/health.

meanwhile the cops can address more pressing issues like crack,guns,dope, axe murderers..all kinds of fun stuff.

a hemp industry would be a huge threat to the timber industry as i said before because hemp is MORE efficient, takes less space, easier to grow, grows faster, is cheaper operating costs BY MANY ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE ocompared to any kind of wood in producing paper product from bags, napkins, cups to motherfucking stationary. this also goes for clothing, the manufacture of ropes.......endless possibilties.

so its pretty obvious to anyone who actually looked into the matter is that its illegal because.

1>most americans hadnt had a cultural history with pot, the smoking of it like booze. they did however have a brief time utilizing hemp and got away from that in part because of the fear about people smoking the shit.

2>it threatens industries with powerful lobbys

3>knee-jerk, "save the children" kind of reaction as a way to strawman a debate on free will and personal choice by adults in regard to a fucking weed.

4>ive already explained my take on the war on drugs in another thread. illegal drugs, the profit of, eventually gets laundered into our economy. not to mention law enforcement gets funding, the prisons who hold offenders and dealers gets funding, etc.

it obviously has benefits as a pain killer, pharmacutical companies would utilize it in treating glaucoma and it would aid cancer treatments like chemotherapy<in ingested form or with the vaporizers>.

so now what the fucks up?

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Good post.

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shit i meant my dad's friend's son sorry

Jesus motherfucking Christ, that was like reading every page of the RTT.


So many arguments, so little time.
I'm not spending much time on this. Just a few quick ones to address.

Thanks tmfreak, Johnmansley, and PST for making everything oh so clear.

Anyhow,

This was just fuckign retarded. I read it 3 times through, I think I'm reading it right.
So, despite countless evidence from Dahmer's fridge on mental affects, and first-hand evidence of Musician1978's addiction, you still fucking believe that?
I thought of you higher before I read that. Seriously dude, what the fuck.

I don't think they're comparable at all, but I don't think you were being serious either. People aren't the same as you, y'know.

I asked Musician 1978 whether he'd give his kids (if any) a joint on their 12th birthday since he stated it was "harmless". It kinda went on and elaborated from there.


Also, Musician1978, you keep doing pot, we don't care. but if you really are 28, have fun at 40, 50, 60... and I hope you don't persuade some kids reading this to do drugs.

This brings up an intresting thought abou tthis. Interestingly enough this kind of put the.. ball in their hands by posting what problematic posted. Is it not fair to say that if pot is so harmless that we should put it in elementary schools or put it in the eyes of children?

Hey middle schoolers lets look at pot and realize its not harmless. I mean if thats TRUELY the case why not?

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im dropping in a comment: im pretty sure that amsterdam didnt "legalize" pot per say, they de-criminalized it... not entirely sure what the difference is, but i know its there.



I dont agree man. It does have some harmful effects, i'll agree fully to that, the argument concerning it is that the effects are less than those of alcohol and ciggarettes. But all 3 of these things have the ability to change physical and mental feelings within minutes, and the government only allows those things to adults. (18 and 19 in canada, 21 in US... sorry guys).

I think we should just edjucate people better about it, drop all the fucking lying propaganda (brain damage shit, 4x more harmful than ciggarettes bullshit --> how do you measure harm?) and at least decriminalize it so a dimebag wont get an american jail time. That criminal processing costs the government more money than that dimebag's street value. (in canada all you get is a ticket )

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Whoever says pot isn't harmless doesn't deserve to use it. IF you don't acknowledge the consequences of any decisions you make and if you're not willing to accept them, you should not even be living! The dumbest thing you can do is make decisions out of ignorance. Even dumber than that is continuing not to acknowledge your ignorance.

My friend, when he started smoking pot, kept defending it with information he found on websites..... the internet, mind you, is about as trustworthy as a crackwhore. I just gave up trying to sway him because it's his decision, but it bugs me that he thinks it's harming him alot less than it actually is.

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Most definately imo the best post you've said yet. no offense but i can definately relate/agree.

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Also like i said just now. Ctl this is definately the best post you've said since you've been on MT. For sure.

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It only took about 2,117 to make it.

2,118 posts, correction.

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You're against pot usage right?

.

dahmer is speaking about people who have mental illness in the first place<to the extreme that they would have to seek out a mental health facility>. noone here is advocating people with a history of mental illness smoke weed, or drink booze for that matter, or do much of anything beyond seek the help of a psychiatrist/shrink/therapist

the case can be made for other drugs tho. LSD,PCP, crack and herion addiction<usually in addition to homelessness, alienation, overall misery> over years can make a person insane.

dahmers "evidence" is only anecdotal, the burden of proof rests on ya'll to demonstrate that weed has these effects you claim.

have fun googling old reagan era "war on drugs" research and other highly flawed and politicize studies.




harmless to an adult was more his meaning,also in the sense of lasting psychological effects, also in terms of the lack of physical dependency. noone here advocates giving children psychoactive drugs for recreational use.

all Musician was explaining is that most underage highschoolers have access to weed, which i did when i was young, which is alot more widespread than any polling or statistics will indicate, which is a fact of life. its not like we think its a good thing.

even tho that i smoked as a teenager, as an adult i dont think other teenagers should from a law enforcement standpoint. but i do realize that regardless of weed being legal or not, teenagers are gonna find a way to obtain it. all i can really say is that its not the end of the world. i can accept this as a fact of life just as teenagers will find access to booze and cigarettes, abuse of perscription drugs. i dont support it in any way, its just gonna be a reality we have to accept.




yeah sure, "OMG, the children", "what about the children?",its a day-time, talk show television, knee-jerk reaction that is a total red herring.

what we are talking here is the personal choice of an adult in regards to a plant. and i support the freedom of that personal choice for people to use it.

i dont even smoke weed so its more a matter of principle for me. when we surrender our rights to make desicions as adults, other make them for us.

personal choice and the regulation of dangerous, toxic substances has to be practical. marijauna being illegal exists as a double standard in comparison to far more dangerous substance that can be acquired over the counter or by perscription. its unnecessary and the cost of law enforcement and incarcerating users is an utter waste.

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+100000

This guy is fucking right, for thoses fuckers who think: OMAGAWD YOU SMOKE WEED, YOU ARE AN IDIOT, YOU ARE THE SHIT OF THIS SOCIETY BBLA BLA BLA IM MORE INTELLIGENT THAN YOU BECAUSE YOU SMOKE POT BLA BLA BLA.

I totally agree with this guy, i dont smoke pot because my body dont take it very well, but i used to. And when i was a pot head, i never judge people of what they doing with their lung.....yes its true sometimes there are many idiot who give the cliché: i smoke weed and i dont do anything in my life exept being a cunt!!....those guys i said: take a gun, put it in you rectum and shoot!!

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Problematic i'm more or less on the side of against pot usage for recreation.

Lowtech. The only thing i can really say against what your saying is the free right to chose. Kind of like you said yes its true if you don't make a choicce others will make it for you. But Lets think about this from a large entire country standpoint.

Unlike how most of this conversation was being argued you can't use these small non-cliched if you will examples. A country imo needs to look after the well being of its citizens and prevent them from hidden dangers that arent so obvious. (i basically said this before) Well in saying this what blows is that those who take the time to learn about things and be not just afucking number generally have to suffer. Oh well THATS fucking life.

You're right in kind of hte opposite of my opinion about what i said about comparing tobacco/alcohol and then weed. Basically in that you didn't say it should be legal or ok because of that BUT you most definately said its a double standard which at least in my mind you kind of leaned on that if weed should be illegal then so should alcohol and tobacco. Maybe there is some truth to this.

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ultimately people have to look out for thier own well-being. the FDA is not exactly benevolent in the way they green light perscription drugs,food additives, genetically altered foods<not that i think the stuff is unsafe, it could of been> the pharmacutical industry is turning into a cartel anyway with thier "feel good" commercials, fuck them.

this should be a states rights issue,i already voted on medical marijuana in massachusetts and people shot it down.

democracy: trial and error, not dogmatic ideology, laws can be reversed, for all i know legal weed may not work out. i think it wont be that bad and noone said that we have to be as liberal about its legalization as amsterdam is, with thier weed cafes and stuff.

marijuana laws can be implemented in many ways. too bad people get too scared to support it. the debate about it gets drowned out by the oprah winfrey crowd of "how dare you poison our children!!" or the commercial where one kid shoots his friend because....ultimately he is a fucking idiot moreso than "the reefer made him kill!!!1"

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I really am 28. If this public forum pursuades some kids to some pot, then there is nothing I can do about it. I am not their parents. I am not trying to be anyone's role model. My posts are not an advertisement to smoke it, I was just posting my own personal feelings about it.

You bring up an all too familiar point that happens in not only this but other things. This sort of like mixing up the real issue with other things. I personally think that pro-abortionists do this when relating to women. Every woman gives the same freaking arguement for abortion and its sickinening (to me) because they just don't even know what the issue really is about. (and pro-abortionists really ride on it)

Basically by that i mean they talk about the "no legislator should tell me what i'm doing to my body" kind of thing. Which literally has nothing to do with what the problem is technically. Its really just about whether or not you should be allowed to "kill" a "being" so really this argument about you being able to do whatever you want with your body is just pure bull.

I'm not going to further indulge in that arguement because this isn't about abortion haha. (BTW i am PRO abortion.. i repeat PRO)

I just enjoy progressing my knowledge about subjects through exactly whats going on here. Debates and solid arguments, vice hardlining it like alot of people often do.

But anyways i can definately see how thats similar to this marjuana issue. Now that its "taboo" often times the battle for marajuana or even the thought of hte uses of it is held in a limbo type status.

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Well to be honest, as i see arguing a point especially for the use of something illicit is attempting to persuade. Now I can understand how you feel that you're expressing your opinion on it, but you've kind of left the saying your opinion and gone to a form of persuasion to see your opinion.

This brings up something that quirks me about alot of people. The irresponsibness of the media and even normal people as it would relate to "expressing views and opinions" because of use of coloration of facts and use of sensationalism from trivialize actually solid facts to over blowing those that aren't so important. Basically what i'm saying is that even if you're now claiming that you don't advertise smoking it you've already done it, by stating that you do it and you're the exception to the "general rule" and by saying that again and again to people (which i'm sure you've "fought this" many times) the "damage" is done. (you're getting your point and opinion out and you ARE persuading whether you think so or not) Thats just how i see it.

Also by saying you don't advertise it you've kind of already lost any and all saying in it. Because you basically give in that its not a good idea in its basis and by not advocating it you don't approve of it.

So which is it?

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I am not advertising. All I did was put in my two cents about the issue. I will never say that it makes you a better person. But I also won't say that it makes you a bad person.

I never said it is a bad idea either. It totally depends on the individual.

Just like anything else that is controvertial, (E.G. alcohol, heroin, or even homosexuality), I would never look down upon someone for doing something that I wouldn't. Whether in their own house, or even in public, if I am not being bothered or harrassed by these people, then why should I care?

Ahh you miss quote me, these people did NOT initially have mental health problems (or history of) but were predisposed in some way and smoking gear exasperated this, hence they became ill (if they hadn't done pot they may never have become ill?). My point being that no one knows if they will ever develop a mental illness or if they are genuinely at risk (1 in 3 people have a mental illness, how many people use this forum?) all that is known is that anybody can become ill in such a way at any time. And we are not just talking about 'social anxiety' it's called 'organic PSYCHOSIS' for a reason, we are talking severe depression, delusions, paranoia, bio-polar and schizophrenia to the point that these individuals have harmed themselves or others.

These are not mere anecdotal these are people I treat everyday!

Yes other drugs are far worse and can lead to the same illnesses, after all LSD was developed for the treatment of schizophrenia.

Congratulations on being able to consume all the narcotics this planet has to offer, I'm guessing that your lack of illness is due to you not being a retard?

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NOW your making good sense and making a good case. I was getting some food from checkers just now and thought about a little bit better case for you to make.

DEPENDS on the individual is a good way to go. Maybe your case should be that it should be legal that 28 year olds with 2 degrees should have the choice to make whether they want to accept risk of smoking marjuana for recreation.

Thats obviously a somewhat odd case but thats a solid case and an intresting point to go off of is those indirect effects of marjuana but like i kinda said before hell the media and obviously extremists against marjuana use will blow those out of proportion. (smoking and driving smoking and shooting people and what not)

Also i forgot to put this in. How can you do something that you don't advocate? I mean i know you CAN do that (can being able to do that) but it doesn't make that much sense. Although if you say you don't advertise it then it makes a little more sense for it to be ok to do something you don't advocate.

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FIGHT TILL DEATH!!!


Heres my impression of the preceedings.

1. One user makes a comment of how marijuana hasn't affected his pursuit of success.

2. ''Internet Lawyers'' begin to address the situation, ill equipped and most often mis-informed.

OHHHH YOU ARE DRUGGIES!!! BAD!! I HOPE YOU GO TO HELL!!!! MARIJUANA IS THE DEVIL!!! MY MOMMY AND SCHOOL TEACHER TOLD ME SO!!! OOOHHH DEVIL WEED!!


btw, I don't smoke weed either.

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