Marshall JCM 800 and a Marshall JCM 900? Also what amp would be better for an old school Death Metal tone? Like in the vein of Autopsy? A good dirty tone but still clear.

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from what i know, 2 major differences, and then a bunch of finicky ones.

first difference, 800 is single channel, 900 is dual
second, 800 uses el34's, and the 900 uses 6l6/6550/whatever the hell the are.

so the 800 is generally warmer, and distorts quicker, the 900 is a bit more sterile, tighter, but also stays cleaner... basically you have to crank the hell out of a 900 before the good disto kicks in... theyre both FUCKING LOUD though.

Other minor differences,
800 very straight forward, gain, volume, bass, mid, trebel, 2 inputs.
900 has this funny thing where it has 2 gain knobs, 1-10, and 10-20, but i'm not exactly sure about how they work... i think you use a footswitch to engage the second one as a lead boost.
and the current 900 is the Dual Reverb version, so it has reverb for each channel.
i dont remmeber fx loop details... check the marshall website.

EDIT: added
forgot about which is good for what.
yeahhhh... both are marshalls, so you cant really get anything brutal out of them... but examples of users are
800: zakk wylde, slash (GNR/velvet revolver), morbid angel (he uses both), and poison the well's recent stuff (he uses jmp100 watt which is identical to jcm800)
900: old cannibal corpse (think hammer smashed face), morbid angel, ummmm... not sure... most people just use the 800 hahahahah.

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For the JCM-900 The 1-10 knob is for the first channel, the 11-20 is for the second channel, there isn't a "clean" channel per se (the gain from channel 2 doesn't add to the gain from channel 1). I have the 4101 '900 combo, quite nice, shitty speaker though. I don't crank it much but use a RAT for a boost, works rather nicely for DM stuff, isn't particularly noisy either.

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JCM 900's used both EL34's and 6L6's, they set the bias fairly cold from the factory so you could switch from the 6l6 to the el34 without having to re-bias (from what i've read/heard). Mine has EL34's (for the win!)... controls are- Presence, Bass, Mid, Treble, Master (A), Master (B), Gain[0-20], Preamp[0-10]... i love this amp when i crank it proper, i took my RAT and it to some proper rehersal space, and i didn't need the RAT at all, its great! I'm probably going to set the bias a little on the hot side in the next few days/weeks however. The 800 tends to be used more for DM though, having never played one i can't really comment, but i think that the 900 gets overlooked too much because it has to be cranked to sound really good

EDIT: there are different 900 models (50w/100w, dual reverb, SL-X etc.), i believe the models that the others are talking about are the SL-X models, mine just switches between two volume channels, not two different gain settings, and doesn't have reverb, but i'd love to mod it to have it, as then it'd be incredible imo

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Karl sanders + marshall amps = brutal....

he uses seymour duncan invader pickups --> jcm 2000's

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The JCM800's distortion is real tube whilst the JCM900's (except for the SL-X ones) distortion is diode based.

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That's utter nonsense. Tons of death metal, grind and brutal DM bands have used/still use JCM 800's and 900's.

Erik Rutan himself did 2 of the guitar tracks on "I, Monarch" with a JCM800, the remaining 4 guitar tracks were done with his Engl Powerball, and 1 with a 3203 I think. Plus he always uses either a JCM2000 TSL or a JCM900 in a live situation. And well Morbid Angel have always sworn by JCM900's...

Oh by the way, he uses a PAF PRO in the bridge position, that's a fairly low output pickup, making the Duncan Invader comment irrelevant(and he only used the ProCo Rat while in MA). Like I said in the other thread, you don't need Mesas or Engls or 5150's to get extremely brutal tones, and ESPECIALLY not with a JCM...

Either way man, you can't go wrong with either one. You can easily find them at any big guitar shop so give them both a shot and then go pick it up from ebay. I would love to try a JCM800 myself but I haven't been able to find one.

You'll definately want a boost like a ProCo Rat or Big Muff Pi in front of it if you want that extra grit and sustain for stuff like Autopsy.

Edit: By the way if you're thinking of JCM2000 TSL/DSL's I would highly advise against this, due to the overwhelming amout of cases I've read about unreliability/break downs. I'm sure they sound great but I can't say for their reliability, and it would be safer IMO to go with something like the 800 or 900.

Just off of the basic amount that i've played between the two i would go with an 800 any day of the week. Although the 900 dual reverb does have reverb and 2 channels, i couldn't get a distorted sound to save my life at a remotely plausable volume. Granted i haven't tried the 800 so i don't know exactly how it responds, but i've heard it live a few times, and it was impressive enough.

But then again i'm sure the 900 sounds pretty sweet too like people have said cranked up, but i'll contest man i was playing one of those 900 combos with like the 12 speaker in it, and it just would not distort to save its life.

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I guess it's no mystery why Trey Azagthoth runs a EQ pedal on full volume and a ProCo Rat in front of it. The JCM800 might not require any boosting, but the 900 will probably if you don't play at gig-like volumes at home.

i dont consider morbid angel brutal by any means... and not all death metal is brutal... do you consider arch enemy brutal? i didnt thinks so. I'm thinking along the lines of splatterhouse, job for a cowboy, bloodbath, skinless... you know... the shit you can only get with a hotrodded 5150, a mesa triple rec or a powerball.

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job for a cowboy....we should all slapp you man......they are not brutal.

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some of their shit sucks... but entities and knee deep... so good...

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more like blowjob for a cowboy, cuz they suck dick.

btw thats quotable.

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900's vs 800's are apples and oranges.

the 900's have the dual reverbs and the sl-x versions.

the dual reverb uses a combination of tube and s.s. clipping diodes to get it's gain. has two channels, each with their own reverb. the sl-x's have two channels, no reverb, and an extra preamp tube giving you 2 more tube gain stages(= alot more gain). the sl-x sounds a bit fatter and is definately brutal(listen to clifton for an emg'd les paul into slx tone). the dual reverb is a bit thinner sounding in the gain but can still get pretty heavy, and it does have a much better clean sound.

they should be running el34 type tubes, but at one point when they were in production, marshall's el34 provider went under or something so they had to ship amps with 5881's and 6l6's. 9 out of 10 people that have heard an el34 and a 5881 loaded jcm900's will probably tell you the el34's sound better. makes sense though, they were designed around the el34 tube.

the 800's are not high gain at all. they have single and two channel versions. good cleans with the right guitar, great crunch, they love boosts.

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I dunno. Is there another type of amp that can give me what I am looking for? Like a 5150 or a Triple Rec? I have a DOD Death Metal distortion pedal so would that help at all?

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Absolutely not to your last question. Tube amps only respond well to mild overdrive/distortion/boosts, not monstrosities like that DOD or a MT2. And uh, are you sure you can afford a Triple Rec?

Man if you want oldschool DM with loads of sustain just go for a Crate Blue Voodoo, Ampeg, or a boosted(if you want) 900 or 800. The Marshalls are easy to find so call up your local guitar shops and give them a try.

Bleeding, Decapitated were using 900's on "Winds of Creation", you're telling me that's not brutal? Then they started using 5150's and then Triple Rectos... And cmon, Hate Eternal, Nile, Terrorizer, Obituary, early Sepultura, and tons of other bands have incredibly fucking brutal tones as well and they all use JCM's(only Nile use 2000's on the albums, the rest are either 900 or 800).

Oh. I didn't mean use my DOD as a booster but rather as just my sound over all. I play it through a Marshall Vavlestate 50 watt now and I can get some great sounds out of it.

I never knew Ampeg made guitar amps I thought they were more of a bass amp company.

Hmm my friend was also telling me about the Peavey XXX. How are those?

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yeah, they're sweet. i like it more than the 5150 and jsx. my opinion
edit: HOLY CRAP!!!!! i've been a member here for over 2 years. no one really knows me, but i've been here posting away. and lately i've been very bored here and really into www.tdiclub.com i take a peek in here every once in a while and answer some newb questions or something and i jsut realized im a post whore!!! yes!! i think i may reactivate my membership now

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Using a dist. pedal to get all of the sound? That really defeats the purpose of buying a tube amp, you pay for the tone of the thing, not just to use it as a poweramp. When you get to try a real full blown tube amp you will know what I mean. If you just wanna use a dist pedal as the whole of your tone(your DOD is a bad idea) then just buy a cheap Carvin/Tech 21 SS poweramp and cab. With that pedal I wouldn't reccomend doing this though, but rather with one of those higher end "preamp in a pedal" dist pedals.

Ampeg used to make guitar amps, very good ones as a matter of fact, now they just do bass ones. They did both valve and SS amps, and then hybrids, but they're kind of hard to find and some don't come cheap, so if you want a good economic valve amp check out the ones we've suggested, in particular the Crate BV. The XXX might be a good idea to check out but I thought you wanted oldschool metal sounds, not a modern high gain amp.

Oh Ok. See I don't know much about using pedals with stacks. I do want that old school sound I was just wondering if the XXX would work for that. But obviously not. So it's a toss up between the Marshall JCM 800, Messa Boogie Triple Rec (yes I can afford it LOL) and the Blue Voodoo.

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a noob question, i noticed that the 800 doesnt have a gain knob but it has a pre amp knob. is that the gain knob?

Honestly if you are thinking about a Mesa, unless you are planning on playing a sports arena without being miced, there is no way you would need a Triple Rectifier. You would be way better off with a Single Rectifier, 150 watts tube is just wayyyyyy too much, and rather impractical. To get really good distortions you need to be driving the power tubes, and with 150 watts, in order to drive those tubes you would need to have the master volume atleast above 6, which would kill you and your next of kin.

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I don't think recto's have an oldschool sound... they're pretty modern and tight sounding to me. If you've got enough cash for a Triple Rectifier seriously look into ENGL's, because they're a bit more affordable can get as brutal but they have a different more loose voicing, claimed by many to sound like Marshall JCM900's... just more brutal though. And I figure you can make them sound even more "oldschool" by swapping in different tubes.

Any good amp, tube or solid state, halfstack or combo, shouldn't require a dist pedal to be 90% of their tone because usually a decent amp's stock sound/distortion is better than many run of the mill transistor pedals like an MT2 or DOD DM pedal. To get the most grind out of an amp without relying 90% on a dist pedal the trick is to use overdrive or mild distortion boost pedals, ie: ProCo Rat, Maxon OD, Ibanez Tubescreamer, Seymour Duncan Pickup booster, MXR Microamp, or an EQ in front with a level boost.

But then again, most of the amp's a metalhead can buy nowadays don't really need any kind of boosting unless you want a hotter lead sound at your feet, in which any case you could just get a footswitch for your amp to switch to a hotter channel/activate a boost or something if it has one. Decent high gain amps come very affordable nowadays.

Well I actually made my decision with the amp. I am going to get this amp called B-52. It's sounds like it's wicked. Check them out
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/prod...fier?sku=481303

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Uhh... many people here would advise against it, no idea why other than it's not a well known amp brand. For that much man invest in an Ampeg head(it's SS and it rules, has an oldschool tight sound) or maybe an Ampeg Lee Jackson(tubes) head.

Try to go with a more popular/widely used brand, that'll probably guarrantee not to give you reliability problems. As long as you stray from big brand's low end shit.

Well on harmony central the B-52 got great reviews. People said "You could buy a Messa Boogie Triple Rec and become broke or you could buy this for a lower price and get a lot more variety in sound."

I dunno just because something isn't well known doesn't make it bad.

I don't want to search and search for an old ampeg because I had bad experiences ordering gear from ebay before. Plus what happens if I get it and there is something wrong with it then I have to scape more money together just to get it fixed.

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Since you decided that you wanted to go the lesser expense route, before you push the button on a B-52, please check out the Peavey Windsor. They are roughly the same price as the B-52, made by a reputable company, all tube, are voiced similar to the JCM800/Peavey Butcher, meaning you can get your old school death tones out of them.
http://peavey.com/products/browse.c...sor%3F+Head.cfm

Don't worry about the MSRP off the Peavey site. Street price on these is right around the $400 area. They sound very nice, a bit cleaner than a standard JCM800, but once you get into the higher gain regions with this amp, the difference is negligable.

Hmm perhaps this would be good. What exactly do the sound like. Like give me a band that the amp would sound similar too. The only thing I don't like is that it's a single channel. See I still want to be able to switch over to a clean channel once in a while.

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Well whatever you do, stay far away from the B-52. Horrible horrible amplifier. The cleans are dull and the distortion just sounds like a lousy pedal.

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Really? I read great reviews on the amp.

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they're horse shit.

get a real amp
theres has been plenty of suggestions, all good ones.

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What exactly is so bad about them? Just curious.

Hmm then I would say a Peavey Windsor or JCM 800.

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You can't go wrong with a JCM800 2203(master volume model), or one of the JCM800 Dual reverb models.

the Windsor is like the Peavey low budget version of the JCM800. It is voiced similar to the old Peavey Butcher which was Peavey's take on the JCM800 2203. They are not gain monsters in and of themselves, but use a o/d or standard type distortion pedal set as a clean boost in the front end, and it will get you what you are after.

Why are you wanting a multiple channel amp anyways? If it is to have a clean channel, just use your volume on your guitar to control that. I have my 800 set for maximum gain from the head, but using my volume control on the guitar I can get from clean and roll into distorted tone. With a multiple channel amp there will be a lag time while the signal changes channels. Not a whole lot but can be annoying. If you want a multiple channel just so you can have different tones altogether I fully understand. But if you are going the old school death metal route its really not needed.

Hmm I i'll just have to try the Marshall and Peavey out. Would a DOD Death Metal pedal work well with the Peavey? Cause that's what I have.

I see. Well I also play a lot of thrash style stuff as well like Rigor Mortis and the switch from clean to distorted has to be fairly quick.

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Suffocation uses them live now, I hear ... you can definitely get death metal out of them. Its drastically different from the 5150 though.

Then I think I'll stay away from them now. Suffo's tone is mush.

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yes its the pregain knob just like the 5150/6505

Hey I was also looking into Laney amps. I know that Scott from Impetigo had a Laney stack. And I always loved their tone. So would Laney be a good choice also?

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If you picked up a Laney AOR Protube 30/50/100 or just the standard Protube version of the same models you will have more gain than either the Peavey Windsor, Marshall 800. The AOR Protubes are known as Marshall Killers. They are voiced very similar to the Marshall 2203/4, have about 2x more gain(distortion), have a quiet effects loop that the Marshalls don't have. they are not as pretty to look at and actually look fairly cheaply built cosmetically, but the important parts are built like a tank. If you happen across one of these take the time to check it out. I have been in the market for a AOR Protube 100 for some time now, and concider this amp the only one that I would actually move away from Marshall for, and I have been a strictly Marshall user for over 19 years.
Laney also makes some other newer style heads, namely the GH100 that sounds pretty damn wicked. The best representation of one of these where not too much studio magic was applied would be all of the guitar tones off the Black Sabbath Dehumanizer cd. Very cold and raw sounding amp. Not the type of tone that is very pleasing but one that shakes the marrow from impending doom.