I've been looking for some 24bit/96khz audio interfaces or mic preamps to record directly to my comp, but there's so much shit out there I don't know what I need.

Basically my recording rig will be like:

Amp>basic 1/4" or 1/8" jack mic>Device>Computer(USB or Firewire, as my soundcard only works up to 48khz)

So I found this:
http://www.thomann.de/thoiw11_artikel-187553.html (Behringer Firewire interface)

and this: http://www.thomann.de/thoiw11_ediro...x_prodinfo.html (Eidirol USB)



Not having a good soundcard won't be a problem right? Because it will record to 96khz?

My main issue is this, if I go with the Eidirol I don't know if I can record in almost real time because I don't know if my comp's USB ports are fast enough. The other problem with it is that the Mic Input jack says "Powered mic only", which means I need to use a mic preamp in front of it too? If that's the case, then fuck the Eidirol. It doesn't say if it comes with software either so I'm not sure if I should go with it.

The Behringer apparently is exactly what I need because it doesn't require a mic preamp(it has a Gain level knob).

My last alternative is buying a good basic 24bit/96khz soundcard(like an M-Audio Revolution): http://www.thomann.de/thoiw11_maudi...1_prodinfo.html

BUT I don't know if I need to use a preamp for the mic before the soundcard.

What do you say?

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- From my experience the speed of USB was never an issue, even with a 4 year old computer. I'd stay away from FireWire, however; I used to have an external M-Audio Firewire Solo but that just refused to work properly with my band's laptop, and from what I remember it wasn't all the Solo's fault but rather the FireWire ports [I'm waiting until version 2 comes out until I buy anything FireWire.]

- I took a look at the Edirol and just had to tell you for the sake of ease, sanity, and quality, do not get it. It only has RCA inputs and outputs. Stay away from these unless you're getting any kind of soundcard with BOTH 1/4 inch plugs and RCA outs for monitors.

- The Behringer is better but still not what you truly need to make recording a piece of cake. I'd suggest you check out the following:

http://www.tascam.com/Products/US-122.html
This is what I used in my old band and it has everything you're asking for at a good price [$150]. Never had a problem with it. If you have a few more bucks, get the more pimped out 224. One of the many cool things about it is that it's 'phantom powered' via USB by whatever computer you're plugged into.

- I'd also recommend you check out THIS PAGE and go with whatever M-Audio product you can afford [I'm looking at this now, seeing how I wasted $250 on the FireWire Solo instead of the cheaper but more stable USB Fastrack Pro. Then again, it may work perfect for you.] It's also a helpful article that'll pretty much sum up your question about what you need, and also introduce you to some concepts you should get familiar with i.e. monitoring and latency, etc.

- Another package that looks good for your situation would be this.
It's better than the regular FastTrack and would seem to do you nothing but good. Plus, it even has phantom power so if you have a condenser mic lying around you can totally use it with this.

- I would recommend you a PCI card but they just don't make them like they used to. The desired mix of in and out types for most PCI's nowadays only becomes satisfactory when you get into the freakin' $500 range, I find.

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This is what I use for recording. I use my Mackie board for preamp and run main out into this tascam. Works wonders for a cheap budget I tell ya....

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So you need a preamp/mixer for the tascam US-122? I noticed it only records at 48k, that's the same as my onboard soundcard, that's not too great is it?

Psychophant, does the fast-track pro(the 4x4 thing) have 1/4" inputs? I won't be buying a new mic, I'll just be using a basic 1/4" mic from a karaoke system or a comp mic. :P The "This Page" link doesn't work btw.

I'm just looking for something basic and user friendly. Like I'm not gonna be doing pro recordings anytime soon or anything, but I wanna get some demos down with some PC made drum tracks.

Do you think I should simply just get a decent mic and a basic multitrack recorder(tape or digital), wiring the output from my soundcard(being the drum tracks) into one of the channels? I just don't know what I should do, many of these recording interfaces have more than what I need for my recordings.

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Yeah a mixer would be ideal for the Tascam US-122 like Dave Gravy said he does. Preamp is not so much of an issue UNLESS you're gonna be using mics. The US-122 has gain knobs on it. Keep in mind like I said, the Fast Track comes with phantom power ability, crucial if you're gonna be using condenser mics.

Soeru, I fixed the link you're talking about, check it out. And yes, the Fast Track Pro has 1/4'' inputs.

As for being basic and user friendly and for what you need I think these suggestions are supreme. Believe me, they have everything you need and a lil' more for cheap.

If you have drum tracks on your PC I suggest you use a DAW multitracker like Cubase. I wouldn't record the PC drum tracks into another multitrack recorder, I'd just make it simple and keep it all on the PC.

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No you do not need a mixer for tascam. The tascam has preamps built in. I just use my Mackie mixer for the quality preamps. The tascam will work just fine. Don't be fooled by the sound quality numbers. That tascam is 48k but 24 bit. If you got some decents mics like a SM-57, you will be blowed away by the quality... I promise you. I got a good friend going to Full Sail to be a recording engineer... I sent him a couple guitar tracks I recorded, and he swore that was some of the best quality for the gear/price. Plugging direct in also sounds pretty good depending on your source. I've ran out of my Digitech RP200 into guitar/line level in on the tascam and it sounded fairly decent. I'm sure if I had a DI box it would be alot clearer going direct in though. It's extremely easy to use!! The layout is very simple too, nothing overwhelming. If anything, you got me as a resource if you need any help. It's definitely affordable, and you will get a great sound out of it too.

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48k @ 24 bits is awesome. When I had my Terratec EWX 24/96 soundcard, I never once recorded anything at the full 96k anyhow - takes up way too much processing power for not even an audible difference. I stuck to 48k @ 24 bits all the time.
What I meant to say before was using some kind of mini-mixer with the Tascam US-122 would be an ideal situation, but of course, not required. I simply used it in conjunction with Cubase's mixing console and all, virtually the same difference. But, it offers more sound control when used with a mixer, which you can definetly achieve at a lower budget.
I love direct-in, I've been a total direct-in freak for 3 years now. Nothing gives you so much control over your guitar tone as going direct in does. What I love about these USB interfaces is that is makes it so damn easy to record guitars direct-in that it's silly.

He is so right it's not even funny. The US-122 is covered with self-explanatory labels and clearly defined controls - shit, I didn't even have to look at the manual when I broke it out of the box. These kinds of recording interfaces are a piece of cake. And it worked correctly, unlike the $250 FireWire Solo which made everything sound like it was being played through a fucking turbine fan.

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*cough* presonus firepod *cough*

Well Thomann don't have that exact one(US_122), but the same model number with an "L" at the end, it works with 96khz quality but the rest is exactly the same(save for the look of it):
http://www.thomann.de/gb/tascam_us_122_l.htm

Here are some other more affordable ones I've found, let me hear what you think about these:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/m-audio_fast_track_usb.htm
http://www.thomann.de/gb/edirol_ua4fx.htm
http://www.thomann.de/gb/maudio_usb...iointerface.htm

I think I should go with the M-Audio Fasttrack(top one) as I don't need 2 XLR inputs and midi shit like on the Audiophile or Tascam, plus it's a bit cheaper so I could invest in a better microphone.

Oh btw as for mics I have these in mind:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/shure_sm57lc_bundle.htm (88 bucks includes cable)
http://www.thomann.de/gb/akg_d440_emotion_serie.htm (48 bucks no cable)
http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_mb75.htm (35 bucks no cable)

I hear the AKG is very good, but of course not as good as an SM57.

Maybe if I were to go with a Fasttrack and AKG mic? What will have the biggest impact on the sound, the mic or the preamp? I'm guessing it's the preamp so I don't know if I should worry too much about getting a super good mic like a shure.

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The mic would have the biggest impact on the sound. However, I'd keep in mind the following: are you in a good enough environment to really do good recordings with mics? It's very hard to even get a decent sound out of a mic unless you a) know what you're doing and b) are doing it in an environment condusive to proper recordings with mics. I've seen a situation were a $50 generic dynamic sounded better than a $400 Audio Technica mic simply because of the room it was being tracked in and the setup. There won't be much of a difference between a Shure SM-57 and an AKG if the room is shit. As for what mic to get, I always say a) fuck what people say is 'good' because it usually won't work for you and b) you have to sometimes get what you're absolutley able to afford. You really can't go 'wrong' when you're starting out [because you need something], and sometimes the cheaper shit works better for your situation than mics that cost assloads. The 'randomness' of a mic's performance in a room is one reason I hate them alot and why I'm a full supporter of direct-in.
Also, you might need the XLR inputs depending on whether or not the mic cables you're getting have the 1/4'' end plug or the male XLR endings.
But your plan on getting the FastTrack and getting a better mic due to the remaining $$$ makes sense to me.

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Well my amp cranked sounds good in my room, there's no echo or anything, the acoustic properties of my bedroom are very "dry". I just gotta make sure I'm not to close to the computer to avoid getting magnetic hum(that even my Boss NS2 doesn't clean up all the way).

I've seen some people record by micing their amp and then laying a bed in front of/thick carpet or even fitting in some thick foam/winebottle-top like sheet in front of the amp to isolate it partially, having the mic inside it. That would probably help in avoiding string noises from my playing as well as my drum track sounds if I'm not using headphones.

Direct-in isn't possible since I use a tube head, less I use my shite Digitech RP1... but hey it's shite, I might as well use it direct into my mic in in my soundcard and get somewhat useable sounds for practice.

Actually I just found out the T-bone mic actually does come with a cable. I think I still might go with the AKG though even if I have to buy a cable, just for the sake of going with a well-known brand. Plus it has a clamp so I can clamp it to the side of my cab and not need to worry about mic stands.

I think I'll just go with the AKG and Fasttrack. For 160$ plus whatever the cable costs I don't think I can go wrong with that.

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I've heard people say this so many times... keep in mind setting up a mic in a room, recording and then evaluating the output is the only way you can find out if a room is indeed decent.

A good idea for SURE. This also will kill any possibility of phase cancellation due to soundwaves bouncig off the walls onto your mic.


Another common misconception. ANYTHING can be recorded direct in with use of a good D.I. box and recording plan.. Although technology created with the direct-in function in mind will undoubtedly perform better, I've seen awesome results from people who used tube heads, a D.I. Box, and an exact pre-recording setting that gave them an excellent direct-in sound.


I don't know WHY they make those clamps, they handicap you if anything else. Trust me, when you're going to want to start moving the mic closer and farther from the speaker and try different angles of attack on the cab [i.e. what's the best speaker to mic, etc.], that clamp is only going to make recording hell. Always invest in a mic stand.


I just realized you're getting a decent recording setup for like under $200. That's fucking insane. Good luck, and happy tracking.

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When recording guitars the room you're in is not of as much importance than if you were recording drums, i'd worry more about mic choice and placement than room problems when starting out. Phase/room issues are not a big problem anyway if you are using a mic with good rear-end rejection, you only really have to worry if you're using more than one mic at a time. Also be VERY careful about DI'ing a tube head, if you don't know what you're doing you can fry a head FAST. As with anything, try micing and DI'ing and see what you prefer, remember it may be easier to di but will it sound as good in the long run? I've had good results blending both together, with the mic'ed track almost always taking precedence in the mix.

As for interfaces have you looked into the digidesign mbox? It comes with pro tools and has phantom power, is USB powered and comes with two pre-amped neutrik inputs that are xlr and 1/4" in one (very handy) and also has zero latency recording capabilities.

Oh yeah, if you're getting a mic, buy a damn mic stand

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I forgot to mention that I have a problem with DI'ing too. My comp has some rather faulty wiring and I generally get a small zap when I touch the exposed metal parts on my comp(ie: the S-Video input jack, USB/Firewire jacks, or anything with metal parts connected to the comp(including an Ipod and my guitar!).

The zap is intensified if I touch the aluminum border of my window at the same time! I can play with some Digitech multifx hooked up to the comp but I'm still afraid of doing it for too long and getting electrocuted(I've gotten small stings from the strings), and I sure as hell don't want to hook up a tube head because I predict the electric shock -if any- could be fatal or damage my amp.

:P So yeah DI is out of the question if I never find out how to stop getting zapped when hooking up a guitar/anything to my comp. This wouldn't have any influence on my recording.

Oh wait a second, I found these active DI boxes with a "ground lift" function, maybe I should use that to avoid getting zapped? Like this: http://www.thomann.de/es/millenium_...tive_di_box.htm

Can anyone explain everything about DI boxes to me? Do you just put em in your FX loop(my amp has no line out) and then into a mixer/interface/recorder of some sort? I don't quite get it...

The AKG mic doesn't exactly look like the type of mic that is "focused", like directional, it seems it might be able to pick up the sound bouncing off walls right(take a look in the link I posted)?

The Fasttrack doesn't have a balanced-in, just an XLR in and an unbalanced in for guitars or basses, so I couldn't use a DI box right?

Sheez dude, I don't think that any ol' box plugged into your signal chain can help you stop getting 'zapped', that's fucking weird, and sounds a faulty wiring/electricity job to me if anything. All D.I. boxes have some kind of ground lift built in anyway, but its function seems to be to kill hum.
As for explaining what the heck they exactly do, read this.
This is another cool article.
I remember you posted a thread a few days ago about whether your FX Loop could double as a line out, and from what I remember Shreddist said it was a-ok. This is what I'm talking about.
Now for your AKG mic question, no, it's not bi-directional, but the design makes it look like so. Basically wherever you see the words 'dynamic - cardoid' it pretty much means it's going to record whatever is in front of it and only that - keep in mind this however, means anything and everything it picks up.
What I'd worry most about though is your odd electrical problem involving your computer. Don't forget computers are electrical devices too with capacitators and all that shit - the slightest unwanted shock travelling through a motherboard will totally fuck it up. Is it like that ALL throughout your house?

EDIT : Yes, you can use a D.I. Box with the Fast Track. You can pretty much use a good D.I. Box with anything these days.

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By process of elimination I determined it is the actual computer, not my building's electrical foundation. Tried plugging it in different outlets and I can still get zapped. Sometime's the zapping is harsh sometimes its very weak. I use a quality power splitter with those surge protector things so there's no crappy hardware giving me those zaps.

My comp has been like that as far back as I can remember. It's like 4 years old but has some pretty good hardware for such an old comp and it still holds up like a charm.

But yeah this is most confusing, so I think I should go with a mic, unless of course the drawbacks of a mic setup make it worth risking my life with a DI box for better sound quality. :P

Try using a different cord to plug the thing into a wall [if the back of your computer's power supply has a detachable cord], and if that does not work, I'd say you'd have to try replacing the power supply.

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Damn I never thought of that, I'll give that a shot, thanks.

If it works then would it be a good idea to go with an interface(one with balanced ins) and that DI box I mentioned? Gotta look for an interface with balanced ins now...

If not I'll just go with the AKG-Fasttrack mic setup.

Thanks for all the help.

I finally figured out what it is. The outlets in most of my apartment are not grounded! I tried the comp in one outlet that had the top and bottom metal clips that hold the plug in place(and act as the 3rd ground prong) and wasn't zapped by my comp.

I convinced the landlord to send an electrician to install a ground wire in all my outlets. I remember reading in my Engl amp's manual that the amp should never be used through an ungrounded outlet! Realizing that there is no grounding in my house creeped me up to the extent that I'm not touching my computer or amp til the grounded outlets are installed...

Thnaks for the info, but now I have some more questions :

If I go with a DI box and interface, does the interface need to have a "balanced-in" plug like on many mixers or does it simply not matter? I understand that the DI boxes make the signal "balanced" for direct recording. What DI box do you reccomend, preferably AC powered?

If I use one with passthrough like the one I posted in my FX loop, that means I can do direct recording with no noise and the still be able to monitor using the cab right? Should it go at the end of my FX loop(I use MXR Phaser(sometimes), Delay, and a noisegate in that order)? Will I lose any of the tonal characteristics(Ie: lowend from my cab) or will it sound good no matter what?

I'm going with the Art Active D.I. for about $40 on Musiciansfriend.

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Hey, that's cool you got your landlord to check out the electrical problem, that's kinda fucked up that it was like that to begin with but at least he's gonna do something about it.

I'm guaranteeing that if you get a D.I. box and an interface everything will work out fine as long as you connected everything and in the right order. So, you don't really need to worry about balancing inputs or anything.

I'm not sure about monitoring with the cab though, I just used my computer speakers/monitors for the 'cab' and I always made sure the sound was awesome coming through my computer speakers/monitors. Which comes to the next issue... You have to experiment with the order of your pedals and all but I'd put the DI box first and then your effects pedals. It's going to sound like shit when you first try going direct though - you have to invest some time into tweaking setting on the amp and stuff. But once you get it going, you'll be happy to know what's coming out of your computer speakers/monitors as you track the recording is exactly what the playback will sound like, no ifs ands or buts.

Before I went with Line 6, I used a ART mono tube preamp/DI box and the tone was sweet. What I liked about it was it was mega easy - plug the output of the tone source to the tube pre, and then send the tube pre into your recording interface/soundcard. I still did this with the 'direct outs' on the Line 6. I even went 'cabless' for a couple months and played straight through the computer speakers/monitors, which was cool, because I was able to record alot of preproduction demos on the fly and record shit as soon as I came up with it.

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Yeah my building is from the 1960's, back then it wasn't required to have grounded outlets for buildings being built but now the law requires it, and coincidentially I just found out that the biggest electrical company here is sending letters out to everyone that doesn't have grounding telling them they have until a certain date to fix that issue. The landlord was cool about it and she's paying for it, but I couldn't convince her to get me a new sofa.

I think using the term "monitoring with the cab" might've confused you. I'm not going to get one of those passive boxes that are hooked up to the speaker-out. I would be using the DI in the FX loop, with a link out so that the signal also goes back into the FX loop and I can play and hear it through my cab(which is useful because I won't be recording with headphones on, just playing the drum tracks/metronome loud from the speakers and hearing myself through the cab(and comp speakers), because being close to the comp gives me magnetic hum)

If I put a DI box in before my FX pedals than I can't use any of them right(they won't be going into the DI)? Are you saying I should do this because the FX pedals sound bad directly into the DI?

Here are some of the DI's available to me(starting with the most economical):
http://www.thomann.de/gb/art_xdirect.htm (active)
http://www.thomann.de/gb/samson_sdi...ktive_dibox.htm (active)
http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_gi100_ultra-g.htm (active)
http://www.thomann.de/gb/palmer_pan_01.htm (passive)


I read those links you gave me but I still don't understand why I should use either an active or passive box. I think I should go with an active. I'm thinking of getting the Samson(top one) or the red Behringher box which is made specifically for guitars and has a cab simulator. The Art seems cool but does it have the quality as nice as the Samson or Behringer? I remember reading "Don't skimp when choosing a DI". I don't want to spend 100$ on one but I also don't wanna buy a piece of crap. Which do you suggest?