hey, i was just wondering how the 5150/6505 compared with the engl powerball.
i just wanted to know which one is better for sheer brutality. i will be using drop tunings and emgs...

once again, the music i mostly play are songs from KsE, slayer, slipknot, necrophagist, cryptopsy, trivium, chimaira, nile, cannibal corpse, machinehead, metallica etc.

ino its a wide variety, but to be honest i play more of chimaira and slipknot etc than the technical metal side. im just not good enough yet to "specialise" in that.

so yea, which amp will be more suited for that?

cheers
user01

If you're playing slipknot you might as well get a behringer V-Amp with head phones so no one has to hear you play.

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Get the money first, and try them out yourself. Most of those bands use one or the other, so try them the fuck out.
Or, just go the 5150 and dime the gain, those powerchords will sound brutal as fuck.

Haha not really, quite narrow actually. Honestly, given the style of music you play, the fact you have EMG's, and the fact that you drop tune, its not really going to matter that much. Get the 5150 just because you obviously dont need a clean channel, or any of the 4 channels the Powerball has to offer.

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*Shotgun pump sound...* BURNED!!!

Really though, I think its great that you play a wide range of music, even if I don't happen to like it all. Having the wide range of taste you have, the Engl might be the way to go for you. I'm not saying the 5150 has narrow tone but the powerball has more from my understanding ( even with EMGs ). I have played many the 5150 amps in my time and all where great. I'm shocked it took so long for the 5150 to become popular in the metal community actually. I think it had to with the amp being a EVH fanboy glam rock icon during the 80's and 90's.

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If you want even the slightest versatility in your tone, get an Engl. If all you need is high gain, get the 5150, they're much cheaper too, but frankly I think Engl's are worth the cash.

God damn I love my fireball.

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na, i do that at the moment with a pod xt

i hate the fact that it sounds kinda crappy at high volumes. i want an amp where it gets better the higher you crank it.

I duno i have heard that the fireball isn't really that great to be honest. But in reality i think you would probably be happy with just about any modern higain tube amplifier. Anything from the 5150, the engl, to a Crate blue voodoo. All of which have their own good but unique sounds. I mean hell even ihave27frets apparently uses madison amps, and if they have a sound like they do from THAT companies amps.. then i'm sold. Enough said.

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i think he rocks framus cobras, the other guitarist in his band sports the madisons.

and i remember him saying something on here about his tracks being recorded with a blend of a powerball and a cobra. not sure about the other guy though. and their tone is pretty good imo.

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Their tone is the SHIT. I hadn't heard of Absence until some post awhile back, can't remember what it was about. But from the FIRST song i heard from there i became obsessed. Definately my most played cd i have right now. Interestingly enough they're the pinacle of what i'm attempting to ackomplish musically. The style and feel.

But anyways back on topic. I'm not claiming to know what they play, but i just saw they endorse madison amps. Which is kind of a surprise, (i guess). I dunno i'm starting to believe this search for the "perfect tube amp" is almost fruitless as they all sound pretty damn good, with knowledgeable tweaking.

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I personally didn't like the Absence's tone on their CD(nor the music for that matter, sorry mate!), just kind of mushy. Hell I like warm heavy overdriven slightly mushy sounds but that Framus doesn't sound good to me, at least rythm wise, leads sounded great though I'm sure that's mostly due to ihave27frets playing.

Engl Fireballs are not so great? What the hell have you been intoxicating yourself with? Owning one I think they kick loads of ass tonewise and are extremely reliable, but for pro's that need more features I'd suggest a Powerball or a higher end Engl, but the Fireball is a great cheaper alternative for people that just need high gain and cleans, no in-betweens nor seperate channel EQ's. The sound is really perfect for me, as it's not super sterile like modern hi gain amps but not super oldschool/overdriven sounding, so you can EQ/use different pickups/pedals to get virtually any sound and it will sound authentic, not like forcing a Rectifier to sound overdrivish like a JCM800 or vice-versa.

For the 870€ I payed for my fireball, I don't think it's possible to buy any better tube amp new for that price.

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I'm just repeating what i read, i've never heard or even seen one in real life before. I wouldn't mind trying them out, but granted you don't really see them in your average music store.....

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Meh, their tone is meh. Too fizzy. Kinda metal zonish. I remember him saying the Cobra didnt go through any processors or external units, but fuck, it sounds over processed to me.
and +1, fireballs are great.

MAdison, sounds interesting ... Anyone tried the Carvin V3 or know someone that has?

The Engl Fireball has a decent tone but to my ears the amp lacks punch and dynamics. They are built pretty cheap, on par with Peavey and newer Marshall stuff. They aren't any high end amp. They record pretty well. Live they have no feel and are buzzy.
Jerry

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The best tone you can get from a Powerball in my opinion is the following:
Gain at 1 o clock
Bass at 2 o clock
Mids at 3
Treble all the way up
Presence on 4 o clock

You don't need to dime the gains on this amp to get that brutal tone your looking for, and this amp cuts nicely through a mix or over other instruments. I'd take the Powerball over the 5150 any day, and this is after playing both of them over a period of years sporadically when one or the other was around.

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you know whats wierd? when i practice at home. most of my settings are like < half treble. i've even turned it all the way down. the sound for me doesnt really change the wa you'd expewct. hell on the splawn i could do anything with the EQ and still get an amazing tone. right, home is hardly any treble. but when i go to GC or sumthin i gotta crank it. wonder why that is?

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Haha, probably all the guitar n00bs [a.k.a. people] and crap they have in the store eats up the high frequencies of treble... so you gotta crank it to be more noticable... whereas in your room it's just you, the walls and your stuff so the high end isn't getting absorbed as much.

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Definately an acoustics factor.

The next question would be whether or not your using the same speakers at GC and home?

That could play a pretty big difference. But obviously acoustics is another one.

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Engle Vs Peavey.. I would have to go with Engl even though I have never played one. I've seen one and heard Engl but I've only played with a 5150 over the years.

I would trust Engl to make a nice amp right out of the box.

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5150 vs engl powerball
i play nile/necrophagist/behemoth/BTBAM/DEP/meshuggah

That must've been the most incoherent post I've ever encountered.

I insist, Engl can do many things that the 5150 can't, plus I personally am more impressed with uber high gain on the Engl than on the 5150. But of course keep in mind that 5150/6505's can be had for much less than a Powerball. Then again, good tone doesn't come cheap.

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nile uses jcm 2000s

necro 5150

behemoth mesa triple recs, though i think he used to have a jcm 800 or 900

btbam 5150/krankenstein

whos dep?

who the fuck knows what meshuggah uses...

now a powerball can push out tones quite reminiscent of the 5150, and is also tight as fuck... so go for that. downside, it wont get the looseness of nile or behemoth.

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Go the 5150. Necrophagist have used ENGL rackmounts, but you can get a tone like their on a 5150. The xmetalxcorex scene swear by their 5150's. Meshuggah are into Line 6 shit, that is, their higher end modelling stuff. You can get their sound on POD's, but nowadays Im pretty sure they swing Vetta II's.
As for Nile's sound, in the end, it doesnt matter. You can play any band on any amp, who needs to sound like them.

the guitarist in my band has a 5150. good amp for alot of high gain tones and even some medium gain stuff, but man is it hard to pull out decent cleans. every practice im glad i have my engl, i think everything from clean to brutal my powerball does bettter imo.


dillinger escape plan? and to my knowledge they use rectos.

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umm thanks all i need is a cheap good metal amp

im poor

maybe i should just save for a powerball

i thought necrophagist used engls of some sort.

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They do/did.

engls cost an arm and a dick huh?

5150 II with vader cabs for muhammed and engl with vader cabs for sami...that is what they had when i saw them last may.

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They use 5150's live now, but I swear he recorded and used to gig with ENGL rack pre's.

heres what it comes down to.
How brutal do you want your distortion, and how clean do you want your cleans?

The 5150 can get pretty brutal, but its also kinda raw and sterile and hxc like. But then again, if you tweak the gain and mids, you can get some colour to the tone and sound like Immortal, or splatterhouse... And the cleans make the baby jesus cry. You'd DEFINATELY need a touch of chorus or a bass chorus infront of it to get super clean cleans.

And then theres the powerball, which i have never even seen in person, but i've heard xdisx saying its gain is amazing all the way from 1-10, and the cleans are something to brag about.

So, do you need cleans, are you going to use cleans, and how much are you willing to pay for those extra features.

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You can get a kickass sound with almost any amp if you run it through a ton of rack gear. Also keep in mind that with alot of bands, they will endorse a certain kind of amp, and have it onstage and everything, but be playing through a different amp that's offstage.

As for engls versus 5150's, I've only ever had experience with a 5150. They sound awesome in the studio but live they sound really harsh. I'm not sure why that is. GWAR used to use them.

If you're looking to sound as "brutal" as possible it hardly matters. Just use a distortion box in front of the dirty channel of your amp and you'll be set. All I can say is play em both and see which one you like better. Don't just listen to a bunch of random dudes on the internet. :P Only you can decide what's best for you.

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You are a little bit off mate. For starters, good tone doesnt come cheap. Rack gear doesnt work miracles, either. As for putting a stompbox in front of the dirty channel, it wont neccessarily sound good.

the heads range from like $800-ish(thunder 50) to $3,500-ish(SE) u.s.d. with many different models in between.

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or maybe a avt half stack

but as for cleans i do wants pretty good cleans and distortion like on the nile song the burning pits of the duat rythm and solo sounds

an avt will make you want to kill yourself. They honestly sound like poop. Do NOT waste your money, everybody i know who has/had one HATEs them. I know a guy that sold his AVT to get an MG, and thats saying something.

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damn...

AVT: Abhorrent Visceral Torment.

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For 1000$(I got mine for 860€), the Engl Fireball is the most reliable high gain amp you can get new for that price, because Marshall TSL/DSLs are of poor build quality and give loads of problems. If you wanna buy your first tube amp, go for a Crate Blue Voodoo or save up for a Fireball stack, just make sure you get a good cab, even if it's only a 2x12 or 1x12 because even a good 1x12 will sound loads better/last longer/probably be LOUDER than a shitty ass Behringer/other cheap cabinet. Fuck 5150's.

And yes, good tone wont come cheap my friend.

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ill prolly just save for the fireball
good distortion and clean on it Soeru?

thanks for the advice

If you can afford it, sure go for it man. But 5150's are great amps that can be had very cheap used, but it's like EMG's, most people use them so your tone wouldn't have much uniqueness. It's all in taste. If you want super raw ugly grind(think metalcore, some modern death metal) then you want a 5150. Oh yeah and you can forget about cleans with a 5150.

Engl voicing is like a cross between modern high gain amps and oldschool loose Marshall sounds, so you can really do both extremely well. It's easy to pull off good cleans if you use the appropriate pickups on the Fireball(haven't played any other models but I hear most others have even better cleans). The only drawbacks... you've got only 2 channels, and no seperate EQ, so if your music needs to switch back and forth between distortion and cleans a LOT you should reconsider getting something like a Blue Voodoo 120/150/300(much cheaper), used Marshall all-tube(preferably older models as they are built better), or saving up for a higher end Engl like a Savage 120, Powerball, etc.

I've only heard of reliability/construction issues with the Thunder 50 head. No matter how much you spend on an Engl you'll be happy with the sound, I bought my Fireball blindly without trying it(couldn't find any other reasonably priced tube amps here so I bought from abroad) and never looked back.

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hmmm

THERE'S NOT MUCH THINKING TO DO BUY IT ALREADY GODDAMNIT.

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thing is ive heard lots of good things bout teh crate blue voodoo

You're about half right with this statement. I'll agree completely with saying a blue voodoo isn't a bad idea, and that the 120, 150 are probably cheaper than the fireball, but i can guarentee you the 300 isn't cheaper than the fireball. I know.. i have one. Unless you pick it up used, then maybe.

I'm not sure about the powerball though, (its about the same price range as the 300 bv. I'm sure its similar as in you have to crank it a lil bit to hear the money you paid for it. I could be wrong, but thats what i would imagine.

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just wondering but which is better 6505+ or 5150?

SH33R BRRREWTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLITY!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111

GET A KRANK.

I have experience with both the 5150 (I own one) and a 5150 II (other guitarist owns one) and I have played on an Engl Fireball (the 60w one, is that the Fireball?)

I love my 5150, and I was very impressed by the clean and lead channels on the Engl when I tried it out, but it was very limited as to what it could do footswitching-wise, more so than a 5150.

Yes the 5150's clean channel isn't totally clean, with the Pregain on 0.5 it does ok for me, but I'm not a fussy bastard when it comes to my clean anyway.

Really does depend what you want, the 5150's lead channel is often described as 'loose', even though it's immence. Both amps have tons of gain, more than you'll ever need!

I know the Powerball has 4 channels and a higher price tag, but will you use all of those channels? Far to many knobs if you ask me!

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TMFreak, I was obviously referring to used BV's, they're actually kind of hard to find new in stores in my experience. I only found a BV-120 at the NYC Guitar Center and it was selling for a grand, when you can get it for 600$ or less used.



I sure as hell would! And most players that want versatility will. Especially since I've been playing some stuff that doesn't have much crunch(ie: stuff like Therion or Motörhead) and then I want to switch to some heavier overdrive for a solo on my Fireball. Sure, I could fix this using a boost pedal, but hell I think using a different channel with different gain on the amp would sound a million times better and more "authentic".

All those knobs are just individual 4-band EQ's, Gains, and Volumes, all you really need, it's not as complicated as it looks man.

I don't know how good the cleans are on the Powerball, probably the same as on the Fireball or slightly better, but if you use a lot of cleans and not much super tight brutal crunch then you might want to try out the Ritchie Blackmore Engl.

You're probably right, although i bought my 300 new at guitar center so..

haha. I got a pretty fair price on it.
The one downside to not buying them new or at least used by a licensed crate store is not having the full warrenty. And that can be a big issue. Although i recently found out through my 150 in the shop that in order for me to collect on the warrent it has to be sent to the factory or a service center. I guess the place around here no longer services for crate so i would have to ship it, with ME paying for it to the factory for it to get repaired.

Although the guy down the street said he'd do it for probably less than the shipping owuld be. I hope so, cause fuck paying on shipping for this.. AGAIN.

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Jesus a retubing/servicing of a 300W head must be painful in the pockets. That is what you sent it in for right?