2006-09-22, 14:04
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New Blood
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Scotland, UK
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Who thinks Joey Jordison is overrated?
I think he his, people go about saying he's the best drummer in the world, he may be the most famous drummer..
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2006-09-22, 14:19
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Metalhead
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Belgium
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How about learning to make a good sentence, before starting a thread?
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2006-09-22, 14:52
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Post-whore
Banned
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asl babe
mwuh
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2006-09-22, 15:14
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FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: St. Louis
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He's really good, but certainly not the best.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.
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2006-09-22, 15:45
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C-Un(i)t
Forum Leader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CompelledToLacerate
He's really good, but certainly not the best.
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Even though he certainly has a fair bit of skill, you can't say he's really good after watching players like Mike Mangini, Bobby Jarzombek, Vinnie Colaiuta etc.
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2006-09-22, 16:59
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New Blood
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Scotland, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demogorgon
How about learning to make a good sentence, before starting a thread?
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how about not being so rude
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2006-09-22, 17:15
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Post-whore
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloaca
Even though he certainly has a fair bit of skill, you can't say he's really good after watching players like Mike Mangini, Bobby Jarzombek, Vinnie Colaiuta etc.
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i think jordinson is a good start for a drummer interested in metal, overrated,yes, but its by the uninitiated. annoying but forgivable
the guys you mention are far more overrated, imo, however. you might as well of dropped buddy richs name. those guys are who what alot of the advanced drummers worship.
its like me saying steve vai and malmsteen are the real deal.
good doesnt always mean skilled. this is not to imply the joey can lay down some tasteful playing. but there is something to be said about playing what a song needs moreso than what polyrythymn and 64th note bombast can be thrown in at every bar.
just food for thought
Edit:mangini would be a sick death metal drummer, too bad he has that bereklee rep to uphold.
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I fought for world titles in boxing, karate, I fought bar wars, street corners, most everything living and half the stuff dead,ain’t nobody bad, I know, I looked.......
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Last edited by low-tech : 2006-09-22 at 17:18.
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2006-09-22, 20:39
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FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloaca
Even though he certainly has a fair bit of skill, you can't say he's really good after watching players like Mike Mangini, Bobby Jarzombek, Vinnie Colaiuta etc.
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He would blow my ass out of the water with this drumming. But yeah. Many more better drummers.
BUDDY RICH to be exact.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.
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2006-09-22, 22:15
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Denimwearinghillbilly
Forum Leader
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vincent paul abott
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2006-09-22, 22:16
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FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Him too.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.
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2006-09-24, 19:14
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Noob lud
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Upstate New Yaawwk
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Joey is a very good drummer, but in a way, most good drummers are overrated somewhat. There is no good or fun in argueing an opinion over someone else's. I could sit here and argue that Gene Hoglan kicks Vinny Pauls ass on drums, but how can you prove it? You can't. Nobody fucking wins, why waste your time.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy
Please excuse me for I currently have a terminal erection, and the only cure is midget-cunny.
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2006-09-25, 00:29
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Post-whore
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Hey how about Gene Krupa? He was a kick ass drummer.
Joey is very good but it's all a matter of oppinion. There is much better out there like Frost from Satyricon/1349. That guy can blast or lay down some jazzy beats in the blink of an eye. But I feel being a good musician doesn't mean being an extreemly tallented one. To me the tallent comes in the songwritting department not the playing department. I know I will be bashed to death for this but take Pat O Brien for example. Very tallented guitarist but he is not a very good song writter. He tries to make every riff extreemly technical with every song he writes it gets very repetative. But it's all a matter of oppinion.
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2006-09-25, 01:59
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Post-whore
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He is fucking trash his shit isnt even techinal
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2006-09-26, 01:20
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Post-whore
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem
He is fucking trash his shit isnt even techinal
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Doesn't have to be.
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2006-09-26, 03:25
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Post-whore
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He's just good at his style of music, thats all.
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2006-09-26, 04:18
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Supreme Metalhead
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Joey is obviously a very talented drummer. The only thing that makes him overrated is Slipknot maggots. Slipknot is obviously very high school oriented metal so when some 15 year old kid you just started playing drums hears Slipknot he thinks "OMG, this is like the best drumming EVAR!!!" just because Joey does more than basic metal drumming. Its all about perspective, im sure a lot of people here idolized musicians that they later realized werent anything special when they first started.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bleeding
buy a stick of graphite (art stores) and rub it into your nut
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2006-09-26, 04:22
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FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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That's basically what Joey is best known for; bringing fast heavy drumming to the mainstream audience (MTV and FUSE fanboys and girls to be specific).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.
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2006-09-27, 18:08
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Post-whore
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Remeber Joey was also in Anal Blast and was a session drummer for Satyricon.
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Truer words were never spoken.
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2006-09-27, 19:36
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FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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I didn't know that, actually.
I only know that he played for Metallica one time. And, of course, he plays guitar in Murderdolls
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.
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2006-09-28, 05:15
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Post-whore
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarissa
how about not being so rude
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How about shut the fuck up and die in a fire?
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2006-09-28, 10:24
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Post-whore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenCrimson
How about shut the fuck up and die in a fire?
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2006-09-28, 12:14
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FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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It's about to get sexy in this thread. <_<
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.
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2006-09-28, 12:15
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Post-whore
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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i think the question is who doesnt think he's overrated
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2006-09-28, 13:57
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Post-whore
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I think the question is, why the hell is this girl (apparently) just barging in and starting probably the dumbest topic I've seen in years? Start a thread about something fun and/or interesting, for example forcing pets into homosexual situations or farting on little children.
Does Clarissa even play drums? I'm kind of ambivalent in my hopes - on one hand I hope that she does because it's good to see members of the female species playing drums, on the other hand I don't, because that lame topic is a fucking disgrace to all female drummers and shows evidence of a room-temperature IQ.
Joey Jordison is an overrated drummer both in areas of taste and technique. Sure he can do some cool shit, but there are people who outdrum him any day. In respects to taste, choosing good drums and cymbals is a very important factor for me, if a drummer doesn't show good taste in their choice of gear (given their budget), they disapoint me. I don't like the sound of Joey's drums, I don't like the fact that he lets two "percussionists" bash trashcans on stage, and I don't like the songs he writes.
Oh btw, Clarissa, if you don't play drums, get the fuck out kthanxdie.
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2006-09-28, 17:52
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FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Posts: 3,003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenCrimson
I think the question is, why the hell is this girl (apparently) just barging in and starting probably the dumbest topic I've seen in years? Start a thread about something fun and/or interesting, for example forcing pets into homosexual situations or farting on little children.
Does Clarissa even play drums? I'm kind of ambivalent in my hopes - on one hand I hope that she does because it's good to see members of the female species playing drums, on the other hand I don't, because that lame topic is a fucking disgrace to all female drummers and shows evidence of a room-temperature IQ.
Joey Jordison is an overrated drummer both in areas of taste and technique. Sure he can do some cool shit, but there are people who outdrum him any day. In respects to taste, choosing good drums and cymbals is a very important factor for me, if a drummer doesn't show good taste in their choice of gear (given their budget), they disapoint me. I don't like the sound of Joey's drums, I don't like the fact that he lets two "percussionists" bash trashcans on stage, and I don't like the songs he writes.
Oh btw, Clarissa, if you don't play drums, get the fuck out kthanxdie.
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Man those are the best things to do.
__________________
DETH TOLL!!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.
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2006-09-28, 18:56
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Post-whore
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: terra firma
Posts: 6,940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenCrimson
I think the question is, why the hell is this girl (apparently) just barging in and starting probably the dumbest topic I've seen in years? Start a thread about something fun and/or interesting, for example forcing pets into homosexual situations or farting on little children.
Does Clarissa even play drums? I'm kind of ambivalent in my hopes - on one hand I hope that she does because it's good to see members of the female species playing drums, on the other hand I don't, because that lame topic is a fucking disgrace to all female drummers and shows evidence of a room-temperature IQ.
Joey Jordison is an overrated drummer both in areas of taste and technique. Sure he can do some cool shit, but there are people who outdrum him any day. In respects to taste, choosing good drums and cymbals is a very important factor for me, if a drummer doesn't show good taste in their choice of gear (given their budget), they disapoint me. I don't like the sound of Joey's drums, I don't like the fact that he lets two "percussionists" bash trashcans on stage, and I don't like the songs he writes.
Oh btw, Clarissa, if you don't play drums, get the fuck out kthanxdie.
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and that concludes this thread
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2006-09-28, 19:56
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New Blood
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenCrimson
How about shut the fuck up and die in a fire?
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haha how about running under a train corpsefucker
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2006-09-28, 19:59
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FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,003
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IT's about to get dirty in here.
__________________
DETH TOLL!!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.
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2006-09-28, 20:01
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New Blood
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenCrimson
I think the question is, why the hell is this girl (apparently) just barging in and starting probably the dumbest topic I've seen in years? Start a thread about something fun and/or interesting, for example forcing pets into homosexual situations or farting on little children.
Does Clarissa even play drums? I'm kind of ambivalent in my hopes - on one hand I hope that she does because it's good to see members of the female species playing drums, on the other hand I don't, because that lame topic is a fucking disgrace to all female drummers and shows evidence of a room-temperature IQ.
Joey Jordison is an overrated drummer both in areas of taste and technique. Sure he can do some cool shit, but there are people who outdrum him any day. In respects to taste, choosing good drums and cymbals is a very important factor for me, if a drummer doesn't show good taste in their choice of gear (given their budget), they disapoint me. I don't like the sound of Joey's drums, I don't like the fact that he lets two "percussionists" bash trashcans on stage, and I don't like the songs he writes.
Oh btw, Clarissa, if you don't play drums, get the fuck out kthanxdie.
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as a matter of fact, I fucking well do play the drums. and who are you to tell me what to do? so why dont you go fuck off to your sad world of having problems with everyone and everything, fucker.
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2006-09-28, 20:34
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New Blood
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: aberdeen,scotland
Posts: 8
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WELL!
well,i dont wanna argue with anyone at all her,cause i just joined!!! but girls can play the drums,maybe some guys are better cause of the whole "im the man,im agressive" sorta thing,but please dont be mean to people and arguing over who can play drums and who cant,i mean c'mon,u guys are arguing over a message board dudes,thats sad!
p.s joey rules and is really hot! lol
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"Life Is Short,So Get On With It And Dont Fuck Around"
Peace.
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2006-09-28, 20:35
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New Blood
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: aberdeen,scotland
Posts: 8
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oh sorry forgot to add this! clarissa can play drums very well just so you know cause shes a good friend of mine aint that right clary???
__________________
undefined
"Life Is Short,So Get On With It And Dont Fuck Around"
Peace.
Sara aka "_Punkee_Sara_"
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2006-09-28, 20:39
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New Blood
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 28
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haha yeah, I dont actually blame that guy cause he obviously has some kind of mental problem..
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2006-09-28, 20:40
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New Blood
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: aberdeen,scotland
Posts: 8
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dont say people have mental problems remember,this is a message board,not some riot!!!!!
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undefined
"Life Is Short,So Get On With It And Dont Fuck Around"
Peace.
Sara aka "_Punkee_Sara_"
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2006-09-28, 20:50
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New Blood
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 28
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It's not a riot, it's a bastard who has some kind of problem with everything and seems to like taking the piss on random people he doesnt even know, probabley because he has emotional problems and a miserable life. haha, deserves it then.
I cant be bothered arguing with him, he is obviously a waste of my time. What the fuck is the point in arguing over why I started this topic? He's calling me dumb from starting a topic, what about him saying pointless bullshite to get his personal misery off his chest? haha
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2006-09-28, 20:54
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New Blood
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: aberdeen,scotland
Posts: 8
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true. but i dont wanna argue,i just joined god damnit!! lol
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undefined
"Life Is Short,So Get On With It And Dont Fuck Around"
Peace.
Sara aka "_Punkee_Sara_"
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2006-09-28, 20:55
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New Blood
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: aberdeen,scotland
Posts: 8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CompelledToLacerate
It's about to get sexy in this thread. <_<
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first yoo thought it was about to get sexy THEN yoo thought it was about to get dirty teehee make up your mind dude! lol **smiles**
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undefined
"Life Is Short,So Get On With It And Dont Fuck Around"
Peace.
Sara aka "_Punkee_Sara_"
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2006-09-28, 21:29
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Post-whore
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: terra firma
Posts: 6,940
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most slipknot fans get banned in a matter of a week
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2006-09-28, 22:11
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Senior Metalhead
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: virginia
Posts: 172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem
most slipknot fans get banned in a matter of a week
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god i hope they do. just like that little douche maggot 666. that little fucker pissed me off.
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2006-09-28, 23:36
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Senior Metalhead
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: California, armpit of the US!
Posts: 332
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Maggot was funny. I don't know why people hated him with such a passion. Just a noob.
But this...
I see Fall Out Boy in the favorite music section of her profile. >_>
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2006-09-28, 23:48
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Post-whore
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: terra firma
Posts: 6,940
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haha my signature was Maggot got banned
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2006-09-29, 01:09
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Noob lud
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Upstate New Yaawwk
Posts: 3,499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarissa
haha how about running under a train corpsefucker
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HEY!!
__________________
9/23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy
Please excuse me for I currently have a terminal erection, and the only cure is midget-cunny.
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2006-09-29, 01:57
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Post-whore
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 1,023
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarissa
It's not a riot, it's a bastard
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I'm a girl.Why must you assume that everyone who has a problem with you 0nline has a dick? Maybe because there are no girls on the internet? Look at my avatar and username - voila.
I don't have any personal misery except for the fact that I don't like retards, such as you. It's useful to get to know a forum and lurk first, and it's incredibly irritating when people just barge in, especially since we just had our fair share of Joey Jordison related discussion. Discussing whether he is overrated or not is probably the most cliched topic on a metal forum. Now go post some worthwhile questions, drum clips or techniques.
_Punkee_Sara_ - Your testimony doesn't count. If you think your opinion about your friend's playing matters to anyone who doesn't know you, you have serious ego issues.
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2006-09-29, 01:57
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Post-whore
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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slipcock fuckin sucks the huge one. Much better bands out there and better drummers
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Quote:
Originall Posted By problematic
Im a quadraplegic.
Youve made me cry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by problematic
Metal Monkey: retarded comments galore.
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RIP this guy
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2006-09-29, 02:28
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Legio Draconorum Orkian
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: upon raging waves
Posts: 4,499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Punkee_Sara_
mean c'mon,u guys are arguing over a message board dudes,thats sad!
p.s joey rules and is really hot! lol
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christ... where the fuck is a suicide smiley when you need one.
1. MILLIONS of people argue on message boards. get used to it. its not sad, wrong, or childish.
2. that was probably the most stupid "p.s." ive ever read.
yes, joey is overrated. hoo-fuckin-ray.
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2006-09-29, 02:32
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Post-whore
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 1,023
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2006-09-29, 02:35
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FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Punkee_Sara_
first yoo thought it was about to get sexy THEN yoo thought it was about to get dirty teehee make up your mind dude! lol **smiles**
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Sexy and dirty can be both one in the same.
As far as Joey being overrated; Hell yeah. He's more overrated than Lars Ulrich and Travis Barker combined. He's better than both of them, but..... well let me say this; I think if he had the courage to get out of slipknot, I think he could be a better drumming. Don't ask me why I think this, but slipknot has just stifled whatever potential they had and Joey's the only one who still shows such potential. He should kick Corey in the nuts, leave, and follow a different path from nu-metal and the such. Until then, he's nothing more than a dude who can do fast double bass.
Also, his blast beats are fucking sloppy as hell live. And his snare sounds like crap. I used to like that staccato snapping sound most snares make, but I've kind of warmed up to snares that ring out a little.
Quote:
I see Fall Out Boy in the favorite music section of her profile. >_>
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__________________
DETH TOLL!!!
Keep checking for new crap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.
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2006-09-29, 03:02
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Senior Metalhead
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hell
Posts: 269
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Quote:
p.s joey rules and is really hot! lol
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Quote:
I'm a girl.Why must you assume that everyone who has a problem with you 0nline has a dick? Maybe because there are no girls on the internet? Look at my avatar and username - voila. I don't have any personal misery except for the fact that I don't like retards, such as you.
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Broken Crimson, for what it's worth, I officially think you are funny as hell.
Why the hell does that guy shave his eyebrows?
__________________
CompelledToLacerate because of his sweaty balls and Simpsons dissing.
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2006-09-29, 03:04
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Post-whore
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 1,023
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To paint them on. It's a goffik thing.
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I <3 12 year olds.
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2006-09-29, 03:44
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FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,003
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..... "goffik?"
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DETH TOLL!!!
Keep checking for new crap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus
It's really sad, all those people who don't understand why we shouldn't act like our enemies. The real victory is not only killing and imprisoning the terrorists, but also letting civilized manners override the lust for revenge, once the battle is over.
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2006-09-29, 03:55
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Post-whore
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 1,023
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Mallgoth.
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2006-09-29, 03:58
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Metal As Fuck!
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: LR AR
Posts: 2,680
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Um.. I have to disagree with him being overrated. Yea he's mainstream and slipknot has a pretty huge fan base, but he's still extremely fucking good. He's as every bit as good as some of the greats of metal drumming.
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R.I.P. Dimebag
My Music
BuildTheMusic.com is your #1 FREE online guitar resource center.
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2006-09-29, 05:19
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Supreme Metalhead
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: West Coast
Posts: 839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Death By Monkeys
I see Fall Out Boy in the favorite music section of her profile. >_>
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Uh oh, I know this wont end well.
Oh well, they are 15 and 16 respectively so I guess this can be expected...
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"So often our hands get caught up in ruts of muscle memory. 'Muscle memory' is an accurate term. We get used to doing certain things, without even being aware of them. This ultimately not only shapes and therefore limits our technique, it also shapes what we compose, what we write. We end up thinking still unknowingly trapped in that box." -Adam Nitti
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bleeding
buy a stick of graphite (art stores) and rub it into your nut
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Last edited by Valtiel : 2006-09-29 at 05:24.
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2006-09-29, 07:41
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Schrodinger's Cat
Forum Leader
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Liverpool, England
Posts: 5,975
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Can we can the hostilities please, ladies and gentleman? Just discuss the boy Jordison and leave it at that.
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Album of the day:
Red Sparowes - At the Soundless Dawn
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2006-09-29, 08:25
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New Blood
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenCrimson
I'm a girl.Why must you assume that everyone who has a problem with you 0nline has a dick? Maybe because there are no girls on the internet? Look at my avatar and username - voila.
I don't have any personal misery except for the fact that I don't like retards, such as you. It's useful to get to know a forum and lurk first, and it's incredibly irritating when people just barge in, especially since we just had our fair share of Joey Jordison related discussion. Discussing whether he is overrated or not is probably the most cliched topic on a metal forum. Now go post some worthwhile questions, drum clips or techniques.
_Punkee_Sara_ - Your testimony doesn't count. If you think your opinion about your friend's playing matters to anyone who doesn't know you, you have serious ego issues.
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OK I dont really give a shit if you are a girl or not anyway. Even it were a dumb topic who the fuck are you to tell me what to do? Who the fuck do you think you are bitching at me for starting a topic, haha how sad, obviously you dont have anything better to do bitch.
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2006-09-29, 08:33
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Post-whore
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarissa
OK I dont really give a shit if you are a girl or not anyway. Even it were a dumb topic who the fuck are you to tell me what to do? Who the fuck do you think you are bitching at me for starting a topic, haha how sad, obviously you dont have anything better to do bitch.
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well she isn't a noob
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Quote:
Originall Posted By problematic
Im a quadraplegic.
Youve made me cry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by problematic
Metal Monkey: retarded comments galore.
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RIP this guy
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2006-09-29, 09:26
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Metalhead
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Belgium
Posts: 73
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The girls here seem to have a serious tempre hehe.
Anyway, even if he's an ugly douche, he still plays 10 times better than me, so i'm not going to condamn him.
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2006-09-29, 13:11
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Denimwearinghillbilly
Forum Leader
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Bladel, Holland
Posts: 6,806
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this thread is fucking over
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