I know that there are probably myriads of threads regarding this kicking around, but I didn't feel like searching.

I am actually trying to find some examples of eastern scales, and also suggestions on good bands who use them; that way I can learn the scale, AND learn how to play it correctly (E.G. so that it sounds eastern).

If anyone has the time or inclination to tab some generic examples, I would appreciate it.

Harmonic Minor is what you want. Opeth and Nile use them a lot.

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Harmonic Minor only has oneArabian "gap" as I like to call it



Harmonic Minor
------------------
------------------
------------------
-------------1-2---
------0-2-3----------
0-2-3---------------




I don't know what it is but i really like it
--------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
------------------------8-9-<11-12-14>-----------
--------------6-7-9-10---------------------
-0-1-4-5-7-8--------------------------------



<>= optional

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Here is an exotic scale website I have printed out and used since the late 90s:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Sty...itar/xotic.html

Here's another cool site I just found:
http://home.swipnet.se/freakguitar/scales.html

Also, don't forget it's perfectly cool to make your own scales up and derive modes from them!

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The first six notes are from the Phrygian Dominant scale. That's a brilliant Middle Eastern scale. Just ascending it sounds makes me feel like I have discovered the archeological find of the century in Egypt.
The rest is scalar nonsense though, however sounding good.



There's it sorted into key, of course I'm not saying you have to play it like this, I just retained the Phrygian Dominant key.

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i had a feeling it wasn't actually a reall scale because there are two ways to take the scale from the same root EX:


----------------
---------------
-----------------
--------------
-----------6-7-9-10-------
1-4-5-7-8-----------------


or


------------------------
----------------------
------------------------
-----------------------
----------------------
-0-2-3-6-7-9-10-12-13-16


-------------


i still really like it. it sounds sweet when all the notes are played slowly and there are elephant skin drums being punded by cannibals in the background. sorry... i was listening to die rache

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it realy depends on how you use the scale, theres isnt 1 arabic gap init, the whole thing is arabic when used right, it can also be compeltely classical, spanish, and many more.

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ur right but if it didn't have that 0-1-4-5, it wouldn't have any middle east flavah

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I guess I need to use them right, because they don't sound too arabic to me when I play them, yet I know harmonic minors through and throughout. Any suggested (specific) music I should listen to in order for me to get a collective "feel"??

It's not so much the scales (note choices and intervals) but the way you play them. Middle eastern music uses a lot of decoration and ornamentation. On guitar, this means lots of fast trills, hammer-ons and pull-offs.
Also, there are very few chords in that music - if any. Try a bass drone on the root note, and just twiddle away on random scale notes.

A more exotic arabic(ish) scale is the Double Harmonic, which is probably what JOAMdude was trying to get at above. It's like a major scale with b2 and b6, or phrygian dominant with a maj7. Here it is with an E root (E-F-G#-A-B-C-D#-E):

-------------------------------0-1-4------------
-------------------------0-1-3------------------
---------------------1-2------------------------
--------------1-2-3-----------------------------
-------0-2-3------------------------------------
0-1-4-------------------------------------------

its the way you play, instead of going up and down the strings, try sliding to make big steps in notes like 10/14, lots of hamers and pulls. bigger steps make it sound kinda arabic to in some points. also wich helpt me to soudn araic, play kinda nervous, like as if you dont know what note to hit next.. lol kinda hard to explain but that works for me

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Thanks for the info. What are some good bands that are either Arabic, or have some good Arabic tonalities??

nile maybe?? its not realy arabic, more egyptian, but it might help a bit.

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I'm working with this right now and am really liking it. Thanks.

JonR.
That is more or less the scale i was trying to convey
but there is a nonsense scale shape that i like to use cuz it sounds great


0 H W+H H and if you keep repeating it





----------------------------
-----------------------------
------------------------------
-----------------------3-4--------
--------------1-2-4-5----------------
-------0-2-3-------------------------
0-1-4--------------------------


It sounds really cool even if it doesn't make any musical sense

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Rudra have good Eastern tonalities. They come from Singapore and sing about Vedic mysticism.

http://www.rudraonline.org/Albums/discography.htm

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keep this thread alive

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That looks alot like a phrygian Dominant scale. If you want a cool sounding middle eastern scale that is what you're looking for. Listen to the album rust in peace by megadeth, and you will hear alot of phrygian stuff, especially in marty friedman's leads.

Also listen to Miserlou by Dick Dale. That song is pretty much a straight phrygian scale except that at the end of the scale, he plays the last note half a step flat.

Here's a tab of the scale in the key of A.

e|-----------------------------5-6-9--|
B|-----------------------5-6-8--------|
G|-------------------6-7--------------|
D|-------------5-7-8------------------|
A|-------5-7-8------------------------|
E|-5-6-9------------------------------|


Someone correct me if I'm wrong....

hungarian minor?

what the hell is that?

http://jguitar.com/scale?root=E&sca...er&notes=sharps

i belive a hungarian minor is used in the necrophaghist song diminished to be

scale calculator ftw.

http://www.looknohands.com/chordhou...r/index_rb.html

this is the best scale site i ever seen.

you can adjust the tunings and its got most of the scales mentioned here<tons of wierd indian scales>, mess around with it, i basically learned how to write music with this site alone.

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thanks

Hungarian (Harmonic) Minor is also Spanish Phrygian or Dorian Sharpened 4th. Necro' also use it in The Stillborn One, at least with root D. Has a good almost tango-like sound. I think you could tango to the Stillborn One. At least the earlier section.

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no. hungarian. not harmonic! look at the link Unanything, harmonic minor and hungarian minor are very different

that is hungarian tard...

------------
---------12-
-----023----
--023-------this is harmonic minor

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all that shit is the same, just different root notes, dno about that hongarian scale (i didnt check what it is) but its probaly just harmonic minor.

just like dorian and ionian and all that shit is the same scale, just from a different root note.

personaly, i dont know all those modes, its all the same scale to me

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----------
--------12
----023---
023------- harmonic minor the 0 on low E is the root note.

---------------
---------------
-------------34
---------245--
----1245------ the 2 on the A is the root note
023-----------


both paterns are similar, though they start on different strings/keys.


yeh that hungarian scale from the link isnt harmonic minor at all

looks like altered (harmonic minor and pure minor combined), but thats not it either, i didnt look realy carefuly though. ah whatever

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(sry for tripple post)

the solo for diminished to be is in harmonic minor, and for asfar as i know they use harmonic minor and pureminor (mostly combined ''altered'')

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Just to clear up a few things:

Natural or pure minor (aeolian mode) = 1-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7
Harmonic minor = 1-2-b3-4-5-b6-7
Melodic minor = 1-2-b3-4-5-6-7
Hungarian minor = 1-2-b3-#4-5-b6-7
Phrygian dominant = 1-b2-3-4-5-b6-b7 (5th mode Harmonic minor)
Double Harmonic - 1-b2-3-4-5-b6-7 (= 5th mode Hungarian minor = scale used in Misirlou)

Dorian #4 = 1-2-b3-#4-5-6-b7 (4th mode harmonic minor)
Altered scale = 1-b2-b3-b4-b5-b6-b7 (7th mode melodic minor)

ah its al the same to me, just starts on a different note/string, the patterns are all the same, so i dont bother with modes, they just confuse me.

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in your face tard (sixsicsix)

That's how I remember it, too. Although modes of the same scale have the same overall feel, each scale has a unique tonality. That's why we distinguish. Try playing something like the Locrian Natural 6th and then play the mode after it, Ionian Augmented. Very different. Or the Hindu mode then the Superlocrian.

Cultural names for minor modes are confusing. I prefer to give them their theoretical names. That one that I gave above is also called Dorian #4, and it was a magazine that gave it the name Romanian. Sometimes they end up getting confused. Particularly on the Internet. Someone suggested that the Persian scales has a bb6 instead of b6 once. AAAGH!

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hmm ok, ohwell, i never realy needed all those modes before, with pure minor and harmonic minor scale i know enough personaly, also cuz i dont write music at all, i just do some tabbing, and pure and harmonic minor are all i need for that.

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and....





------------------2-3-5-6------------
---------1-2-4-5---------------------
-0-1-3-4------------------------------

diminished Half-whole

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+ fucking one man.

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I improvise in that all the time. That's a great scale.
You should try the 'half'-'three half' scale. Like the one above, but darker and more mysterious.

The first theoretical dive I made was learning how to play Eastern-sounding stuff.

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I dont remember the name, but 1 b2 b3 b5 5 b6 7= A Bb C Eb E F G#
I know that theoretically they have to be either naturals and flats or naturals and sharps, but because of all the chromatics in it, I didn't feel like complicating or or whatever. I doesn't matter. wierd scale. either middle eastern or latin jazzy depending on how you use it. sounds good over E(b5)

could someone please put up the correct Hungarian Minor scale!

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It will become A Bb C D# E F G# A, a modified minor scale. It is definitely not necessary to use only naturals and sharps or flats. With this scale, the clef will be empty (or with a flattened B), and every D and G that are sharpened will then be written with a sharp.
It is quite strange indeed. Three additions to make it sound sharper. But it is cool used in the right way indeed. We would get this sound if we turned the F# to an F in the intro melody of Metal Heart of Accept.
But I also do not know the correct name this one has. On the site of the link, it is called Mela Subhapantuvarali or Todi Theta

The correct Hungarian Minor scale is (from A):
A B C D# E F G# A
Hungarian Major:
A B# C# D# E F# G A

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This is an Indian raga scale known as "Todi That", "Mela Shubhapantuvarali", and/or "Raga Multani". Also "Gamakasamantam" and "Chromatic Lydian inverse". (Hey the names are almost better than the scale... )
The rule is not sharps or flats only, but one of each note only.
So it should be A Bb C D# E F G#, as USS said.

It so happens that if you follow the "one of each note" rule with major scales, you end up with sharps only or flats only - hence the latter rule. But it doesn't apply to all scales. (Eg G harmonic minor and D harmonic minor require a mix of sharps and flats.)

It gets quite strange when we call our band names to the scales we MOTT use and then have a very brutal name and music that sucks in the end. Chromatic Lydian Inverse... sounds pretty well. Perfect for a band name or a CD title or sth like that.

I feel a new Hypocrisy song coming up with such name:P

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I am looking for the scale Dimmu Borgir uses in the third riff in the song 'Absolute Sole Right':

E F G Ab B C D#
Anyone having a name for it?

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double harmonic.
the one in pulp fiction right?

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Well there is a doom band called Aeolian, no wait, I that might have been the name of the album, can't remember...

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I do not know any pulp fiction, but the riff I was talking about is played this way:

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Interesting...
Firstly, this is not the double harmonic scale (as used in Dick Dale's "Misirlou" in Pulp Fiction - see below).
Secondly, I can't find this scale (with E as root) in my huge database of scales.
But it is a mode of a couple of other scales.
If C was the root, it would be the Mela Gangeyabhusani or Raga Gangatarangini (both Indian) or the Sengah scale from Greece:
C D# E F G Ab B = 1-#2-3-4-5-b6-7

2 1 3 1 3 1 1
If F was the root, it would be Mela Nitimati, Raga Nisada or Raga Kaikavasi (all Indian).
F G Ab B C D# E = 1-2-b3-#4-5-#6-7

The double harmonic, btw, based on E (as played in Misirlou), is this:
E F G# A B C D#

Dimmu Borgir plays it with the E definitely as root (you should listen to the song to get what I mean), so no name for this scale yet? Then let us make up a name for it. (If Sven Atle Kopperud is watching this forum: have you got any name for it?)

Edit: For example: Chromatic Diminished Harmonic, to the diminished forth E/A-flat.

I mean, JonR is the scale authority here, and I want to become thesame.

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aside from that G thrown in there. yes that is double harmonic

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Aeolian is the key most used in metal music, also named Minor scale, or (in Medieval church masses as second part of the eight-parted mass) hypodorian. The first key used there is D dorian, starting and ending on D:
D E F G A B C d
The second part of the first 'chapter' is D hypodorian:
D E F G A Bb C d
The third scale is phrygian:
E F G A B C D e
The forth is hypophrigian:
E F G A Bb C D e
The fifth scale is lydian, with indeed a hypolylian:
F G A B C D E f
and F G A Bb C D E f
The seventh scale is Myxolydian, followed by Hypomyxolydian (whow: three y's in one word!):
G A B C D E F g
and G A Bb C D E F g.

These were the first church scales.
After lots of discussion, in the 16th century the Aeolian and Ionian scale were added, with their hypo-parallels:
A B C D E F G a
A Bb C D E F G a
and the ionian scales
C D E F G A B c
C D E F G A Bb c

Ever since then, the Aeolian and the Ionian have nearly wiped out the others (survival of the fittest). They are our current Major scale (Ionian) and Minor scale (Aeolian).

Just to keep you up to date with ancient scales

There are lots of minor scales with sharps and flats added (which can no longer be called Aeolian), like Harmonic minor:
A B C D E F G# a
or melodic minor:
A B C D E F# G# a (ascending) and A B C D E F G a (descending), or Hungarian minor:
A B C D# E F G# a
or Chromatic Lydian Inverse (which can also be called Hungarian Phrygian):
A Bb C D# E F G# a
and more of these scales.

I think if a band constantly writes in Aeolian, the music will be VERY boring in the end.

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Aside from the A too.
So it's double harmonic, er, except for 2 different notes...

Which makes it a total different scale.

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Exactly...

Therefore Aeolian is a total different scale than locrian (two added flats or deleted sharps) or myxolydian (with two added sharps or deleted flats).

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Yup.

Actually, every scale is really identical to every other. It's just that some of them have different notes...

So are you saying that Aeolian and Ionian are the best? I would have to disagree... Each mode has it's own use. It was a mistake when the Baroque fags did away with the modes. I appreciate that the minor and major scales are the core for the major and minor sounds and I adhere to teh key system, but that's it.

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modes suck

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How the fuck do they?

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Man, I love coming to this site. Such a high standard of debate...

I am definitely not insinuating this at all. How come you think this while I am just updating your knowledge of the history of scales?
There is no opinion in facts.

I am saying that most people prefer the sound of Aeolian and Ionian, and these scales were therefore used more over the past four centuries. They are also used in present music most.
I most of the time write in Dorian (the first melody I ever wrote was in G Dorian, and it is added to the first song my band is making, which is in G Dorian almost the whole time, except for only one or two Eb notes) or in (double) harmonic minor (writing a piece for string quarter and Pianoforte/Harpsichord at the moment) and in hexatonic scale (whole-step). I will notify you when it is finished.

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Please do.

I dunno, I don't believe that just because it's appealing to ear or more popular, it's correct or anything. That's why we're all on this forum, eh?
To me, the natural major and minor sound stiflingly emotive. I use them rarely and when so, carefully.

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I also barely use them, I prefer to make more interesting music than the clichee of major or minor.

If I use minor, I add lots of chromatics, which makes a fifth-drop-sequence sound creepy :P.

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Well, I sometimes refer to them, but it'll be in a real odd fashion, like I might use odd arpeggios or something.

I tend to stick to the major side and to sound consonant, and the accidentals are truly accidentals, that aren't noticed until after doing tonality checks.

It was actually a trademark of Chuck Schuldiner to add in odd accidentals to add intensity. He does it a lot on 'Human' actually.

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