This is a thread manifested from my own pathetic self-conscious developed from my lack of double bass skill. I know in time, months or years, I'll be able to do rolls and stuff, but I don't think it would be good for my band to wait a year or 2 for me to develop such a skill until we start playing.

So I must ask you. How important do you think double bass is in metal? Whatever sub-genre of metal.

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ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL. double bass tells you when the parts heavy man! its everything i love about death metal, without double bass i probably wouldnt even listen to metal.

foreign objects - universal culture shock/the undiscovered numbers and colors are the only realeases i know of that DONT have a double pedal/bass and are still good

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I bet you could learn double bass in a month or less if you practice your ass off.

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well i know old overkill didnt use Double bass,but i found this little snippet from wikipedia about nicko mcbrain(iron maiden) "Strangely, unlike most heavy metal drummers, McBrain has refused to use a double bass drum pedal, since he considers it to be "too complicated", and "un-drummerish". Instead, he has developed an incredibly fast technique on the single bass drum pedal"

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Well, my DB-skills ain't all that either, but we are able to make some fat grooves too, so... DB is indeed pretty essential with metal, makes it all twice as fat. But if you see what a band like Entombed can make without DB... Wolverine Blues is a super album, and the DB-work is VERY minimal.

It does get sort of specific as to what sub-genre your really talking about..atleast in my eyes. If your playing Death Metal..it's one of the key elements. As for afew others, it's really up to you..expirmental or grind projects don't exactly need it but it gives you more options. The way I see it, it's never truly needed..but it adds alot of options. Thrash also doesn't exactly NEED one, it just sounds better with it. Assuming your skills aren't spectacular i'm sure you can pull of a reasonable amount of double bass that would be fine slower-mid tempo paced. Work with it and once your a bit more comfortable, bring that evolution into each new piece of work you work with. People would probably be glad to see the devlopment between pieces.

Name a few of your favorite metal songs from any genre. See how much of the drumming involves double bass. Then decide how much you need it.

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Most of my favorite songs involve double bass.

Cannibal Corpse; Compelled to Lacerate, Hammer Smash Face
Dimmu Borgir; Blessings Upon the Throne of Tyranny

All metalcore bands use double bass. At least to my knowledge they all do.

MY Favorite drummer, Vinnie Paul, I think creates some great beats for Pantera even without using double bass. In songs like Cowboys from Hell and Walk he just uses a simple 4/4 beat most of the time and still adds powerto the songs.

I can do a few double bass tricks, like the whole double bass/tom-tom roll, and some other ones.

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Well....yeah that list pretty much sums it up. I'm sure there are lots of metal songs that can be played by only downstorking on the guitar, but there are just as many or more that you have to downstroke and upstroke too. I'm not saying that's easier or harder than doing double bass, just giving a comparison.

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i had always heard db when i listened to my music and such, but, i never realized how important db was until I saw some of my favorite bands live. db really does have the ability to "drive" a song.

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Two words :


Pete.

Sandoval.

That's like saying you can learn guitar in a month or less if you practice your ass off....

It takes an average of about 2 years to reach speeds above 200BPM 16th notes. Good fucking luck trying to get maybe 150 16ths in a month or less.

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On rare occasions, I can get a good double bass roll at about 150 bpm but it's a little hard to keep the rhythm. Whenever I'm just fucking around and putting outros to songs I play I can do a very fast roll, but I can't use it in a beat.

I know my band won't kick me out because I can't do double bass. I've even asked them myself and they said whether or not I can doesn't matter to them. I'm worried about if it WILL hold us back.

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sandoval used to pass out after rehearsing so hard though

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If you don't have a metronome, get one right away. Your feet need to be able to play as constant as a metronome when playing Death Metal. Accuracy is key.

You say 150 bpm is a little hard to keep up, i'd say put it on 130 bpm and just play along for as long as you can. When you feel the burn just keep on going untill you physically can't anymore.

Don't play what you can do. Why sit there and try to play 240 bpm when you cant do 210?

Just work on what you can do, you'll notice improvments very fast.

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moreso in the grindcore genre there can be found single kick players, i used to be one. until a year ago i was an solid single kick drummer who refused the double. ive since began learning and am quiet mediocre because im a slow learner

single pedal can be done in metal. i think you would have to get real creative to make an impression

double kick is a pain in the ass, but infinitely rewarding to learn.


in my wars with the jazz drummers i always remind them when they claim how easy metal is that they indeed have to learn the double<it takes years for most,even already skilled players>, either put up or shut up.

it sets us apart from other kind of drummers, foremost, to the extent the double is used.

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He's the drug addict, yes? :P

On topic: I sucked for two, almost three years at doublekick... Then I learned heel/toe properly. My speed improved with 150% at least.

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i need to learn that heel/toe stuff. i can do it with the right no problem, but both in syncopation is something entirely different.

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My feet are big. I know that shouldn't interfere with the heel/toe technique, but it makes it a little difficult.


I'm getting somewhat better than doing a few double bass tricks. Nothing special, just basic stuff that sounds good. Like hitting both pedals and then hitting a snare in a 2 16th 8th pattern, almost like doing a flam but not hitting them both at the same time. Hard to explain without sheet music, at least for me.

And I'm getting better control of the bass drum/tom roll.

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Definately not always vital, but it adds quite a bit at times.

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I know there are probably some other ones, but I can at the moment only think of one heavy metal drummer who played really well without double bass, and that would be Bill Ward. Granted I only have one Black Sabbath album (Paranoid), but from what I did hear he didn't use any or just very little if at all.

Food for thought.

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Nah, he had a big double bass kit later on - stuff like Children of the Grave has got triplet double bass most of the way through it.

Bonham had a double bass kit early on, but dropped it pretty soon and he was a big influence on many people - all his famous stuff is single bass-tastic.

Clive Burr from Iron Maiden only ever had one kick. I've never really liked Nicko's stuff - sorry.

On topic - I thought double bass wasn't important at all when I couldn't do it. Oddly enough, now I'm getting quite good it seems to find its way into every song of ours and I'm just starting to get brave enough to stick it in at stuff over 200bpm and trust myself to be able to pull it off every time.

Well, nearly every time.

Yeah, you definalty cannot be without doubles these days. Its pretty much essential.

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Unless your name is Jojo Mayer.

Jojo rules. I've seen this one clip of him showing people the heel/toe technique on a single pedal, and he was doing 16 note triplets and stuff. Really amazing.

Damn my big feet.

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I dont think that double bass can help out metal bands for there rythms, but yes of course double bass is an amazing rythmic instrument with a guitar, (for me)!

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yes... very important


yah JACKASS!

ooououoohou! tricks!!!

arent we pround of ourself!

Im sure your band thinks you're the key lyric and musical talent, and wouldn't ever get rid of you because you more talented than any of them.....


NOTTT

fucking die you fuck!


metal needs DB like we need a new president!

Stop triple posting. Use the edit button.

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Not essential. And Foreign objects do have a double bass pedal tranny.

Well, I'm pretty sure they do anyway, listen to far cry behind, sounds like the opening riff is backed by double bass to me, but i have shitty quality rip i could be wrong, but im pretty certian its double bass there....

essential for death, some black, thrash.


it took me about a year to get my double bassing powerfull and accurate at a fast tempo at extended times.

but you can always to blast beats, those are awsome

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I dunno what kind of music we play.... or to be more correct, have written and have yet to get together to learn how to play. We aren't trying to fit into a specific genre, although we'd like to be in the vein of I guess melo death, something like Dark Tranquility-ish music.

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Well in that case, it's nice to have but not needed at fast speeds. 140-175? I mean, look at At The Gates (Slaughter of The Soul, specifically.) that didn't have many fast double bass parts, but it was an amazing album. Their older stuff though (The Red In The Sky Is Ours) had faster pieces..I don't think you need it. It's only as needed as you let it and make it be.

id say double bass is pretty important in most metal, i noticed nu metal drummers never tended to use it exept in small bursts which could probably be done with a single pedal. but then nu metal is bollocks anyway. all the metal bands ive been in have used double bass, some more than others. go to www.myspace.com/thesufferingbru and see how much i use it. its not always needed but some parts really wouldnt sound good without it. as for getting good at it in a month, id say thats bollocks, ive had an electric kit to practice on pretty much since i started, the first band i was in bullied me to learn double bass and it took a good few months to keep at a good tempo 130 ish. after 5 years of it i can do 16ths at 200 but it dies out because i have become very unfit recently. it is all about practice. find some songs and sit and do double bass to them even if it isnt on the kit. overkill by motorhead. spheres of madness by decapitated are the best ones i can think of. i just sit and do it till i cant go anymore.

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since i last posted i have just snapped the kick on my electric kit, playing metal. look at the kick pad on a dtxpress the one for db pedals, i snapped where the join is turning the L shape into two peices, two 3" long welded metal strips destroyed. id say double bass is pretty important in metal

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i like double bass with blast beats a lot

I use to believe in only blasting with one foot, but damn using both really makes it sound fast.

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Probably my favorite metal drummer who does'nt use double bass a lot is Thomas Haake. Or at least it sounds to me like you could do a lot of his work on a single pedal. I'm not a drummer so I could be wrong.

I don't doubt for one moment that given a certain amount of talent and creativity, some great metal can be produced with only a single bass pedal... even today, as far as metal has been pushed. Sometimes less is more and we lose sight of the essential role that simplicity has in all musical compositions.

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And fun.

I'm in two bands at the moment - one full-blown thrash band with double bass in every song and all the rest of it. The other (which I've only just joined) is an old style DC hardcore/punk band - so think of Minor Threat, TSOL, MDC, Black Flag etc etc. I use a 4 piece kit and a single pedal, one crash, one crash/ride and hats. It's the best BEST fun I've had in such a long time - I can just play and groove and not think about anything but the fucking huge grin on my face.

I think metal *can* suck the fun out of creating music if you get too tied up in the brat race of fast double bass and blasts and agonising over what bpm you're playing at. I haven't a clue what bpm the songs in my new band are, all I know is they've given my drumming a real kick up the arse that I've needed for a long time.

a good way to improve your double bass technique is to start doing all the rudiments you do with your hands with your feet.

R L R R, L R L L,....

get a basic rudiments book and start playing it all with your feet.

also, a lot of getting one foot to do a double kick is just about building up the muscles in your legs. you gotta practice it over and over.

don't forget to always lead with your left foot whenever possible. otherwise, your right foot will become way too dominant. This is much like how a lot of drummers have a right hand that is way too strong, and does too much work and moving around the kit.

I think you missed the point of this thread

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its all about polyrhythms and limb independance, grind blasts are an excellent way to coordinate your double bass, for every single straight (not shuffling 'monkey' blast) blast note you play with both arms hit each pedal independently

1 2 3 4 1 2 3..
S S S S S S S left hand
C C C C C C C right hand
lf rf lf rf lf rf lf feet

excellent blast and feet independence exercise!

NEWSFLASH!!

Again, that's fuck all to do with this thread.

thats like asking how important is pussy in sex

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when I opened this thread I was listening to old Slayer, which depended heavily on double bass for it's impact. Of course early Metallica doesn't use a lot of double-bass so it really depends on the rest of the music and what kind of sound you're going for. Mostly I listen to a lot of doom and sludge which hardly uses double bass at all. As this is mostly what I've been playing my own skills have declined lately.

When I played grind I was a big fan of it for certain parts, but I still mostly used only the single petal.