Okay, so from the money that's gonna be left over from my college's financial aid grants(unlike loans, I don't have to return it), I'll be able to set aside 500$ or perhaps a bit more which I'm planning to save for getting my first stack/rig/rack. I've been reading a lot of these threads and searching info for a long time, and now that I'm one step ahead in terms of cash, I'm starting to consider my options.

Here are some setups I have in mind:

1.) Line6 PodXT + A poweramp + 4x12 cabinet. (would this work? How much wattage could I get? Would the sound quality be comparable to a real amp?)

2.) Blue Voodoo BV120 + 4x12 cabinet. These usually go for 700$ tops right?

3.) Blue Voodoo BV50 + 4x12 cabinet.

4.) Engl E530 Preamp + Poweramp(how much does one usually cost?) + 2x12 or 4x12 cabinet.

5.) Peavey 5150 60W Combo + cabinet.

I'm also open to other suggestions
In all the cases that I mentioned poweramp, would a Crate Powerblock be a suitable choice? Or are they really not meant to be used for tube preamps like the E530? How much does a decent poweramp cost?

Here are some random noobish questions that don't deserve it's own thread(and yes, I have searched for these before):

-Look at choice no. 3 for example. If I run a BV60 combo into a a 120W cab, will I get much more headroom than possible with just the BV60? I don't understand the point of using much higher wattage cabs if the head/poweramp can't reach even half of it. Does the cab actually make it louder than the BV60's speaker?

-Tube amps: I hear they're extremely fragile. I also hear that the tubes need to be changed yearly. Is this true? If a tube/more than one tube is broken, can I replace the tubes myself or is it only in the hands of a professional? Is it really that hard? I always thought it was like screwing in a new light bulb.


I've heard of these "Volume boxes" or attenuators that let you get the cranked tube sound at low volumes for bedroom playing, are these for real?


So I'm most likely going with either the 5150 combo or Blue voodoo combo. I'd probably start by buying just the combo first then get the cabinet later(I can't play at high volumes at home). I hear that the BV60 combo has broken down on a lot of people, are they reliable amps?

Thanks for any help.

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1) The PODXT is a great piece of gear, my friend has one, but its better for effects and mild distortion than for an all out metal attack, though you can achieve a great metal tone with some tweaking. For around $500 you can possibly only swing a used PODXT and a used poweramp.

2) The Blue Voodoo sounds great. The guitarist that I play with has a Blue Voodoo head and it sounds pretty killer. They go used on eBay for as low as $250 sometimes.

3) The ENGL is most likely going to cost you more than you have if you want a poweramp and cabinet as well.

4) 5150 combo is a good choice, the Triple XXX sounded better to me, but I've only actually played a Triple XXX, I've only heard sound clips of the 5150.

As an answer to a couple more of your questions, running a combo through a cabinet is not exactly going to make it "louder" it will just be a bigger sound. And yes, tube amps in general are fragile, but not to the extent you can't move them for practice/gigging. I have school so I'll answer more questions later on.

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I own the 5150 combo and have played a triple x and an ultra on many occasions (a friend of mine has an ultra combo and a guitar store I frequent the most has a tripl x combo). I personally preferred the voicing of the 5150 over both the ultra and the triple x. I like a lot of mids in my tone and the 5150 is a mid-machine. Also, the ultra and triple x had a dark tone to my ears. Mind you, the ultra and triple x are awesome amps with a lot of tonal versatility, but my personal preferrences leaned more towards the 5150.

Also, considering the affordability of these amps, I think that these two are your better choices. Just try them out whenever you get a chance and critique them with your own ears.

500$ can get alot if you stretch it. But I'd reccommend getting a little more. A cabinet will eat most of that if you want anything quality.

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Wow, that's everything I wanted to hear about the 5150. I'm all about the mids, I never scoop at least one bit. So you would consider the XXX muddier/bassier than the 5150?

The 5150 is more sterile than the XXX, am I right? Even though I love br00tality, I also want to acheive crunchy, not so high gain lively sounds with it as well. Can the 5150 do this?

What kind of music do you play? I'm not an EMG person, I'm not looking for that popular sterile sound really, which made me doubt that the 5150 is what I'm looking for. I still have my doubts about the 5150. For the most part, in most bands' recordings it seems that the distortion has a bit of "noise" or fuzz around it. The best way I can describe it is like if you were listening to an old tape, there's some fuzzy thing around the sound. That's the impression I always get out of 5150's for some reason, but then I go listen to some Decapitated and all is well. I think "post-gain" is the right word, but I'm not sure.

A Marshall JCM900... I've considered that, Hate Eternal and Morbid Angel use them and I like the sound they get from them, but I'm thinking that it's a little over my price range. How much would a JCM900 combo cost used usually? Super clear high gain crunch is what I'm looking for.

The Blue Voodoo's price makes it extremely appealing, but I still don't know what kind of tone they have. All distortion aside, is it middy? Dark? Super trebley? I haven't played that many amps so I can't really describe an amp's sound too well.

Also, what's with these obscure brands like: Soldano, Madison, Splawn, etc.? I wish I could try out so many amps but it seems it might not be possible. Maybe one of these days I'll hop around some trains to some big-ass guitar shops and hope the guys will let me try out an amp or two.


Edit: By the way: In terms of cash, I'll have more than 500 by the time I decide to buy one. I'm just saying 500, but I'll probably throw in $600 into a new bank account, and they promised to give me 75$ if I keep the account, heh. I also plan to add some more to that little saving every month. I probably won't be buying anything until summer time.

So yeah, I don't want to spend a whole lot, but I guess I'll have to if I want to get "that" sound. I've only been playing for nearly 2 years now. I have much more to experiment, I think I'll try going to some shops and trying out lots of amps. Thanks a lot for the help. Give some more reccomendations of relatively easy to find tube amps, especially those mysterious makers like Splawn and Soldano. I am deeply intrigued. I don't trust sound samples on the net, I am aware an amp sounds very different in person.

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Nah,The 5150 isnt muddier or bassier than a XXX,unless you really want it to be.Most makers like Splawn or Soldano will be out of that price-range,even second hand.But,you never know what you could find.
Dude,just get a roland microcube.

Dude, I have a Tech 21 30W combo, I don't need another small amp. I guess I'll just have to experiment and try out everything I can. I'm calling Guitar Center over in NYC tommorow and asking what amps they have available to try out. I made a big ass list with stuff like a Mesa Boogie, JCM 900, BV, etc. just any head I could possibly think of and be interested in.

The 3 I'm most interested in are a JCM900, 5150, or a Blue Voodoo. Such uncertainty... it drives me mad.

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Don't even think about those "Boutique" brands, you can't touch 'em w/ about $500 . Before you just go on ebay, try going on other forums like, esp, jcfonline, etc., and check out their Classified sections to ask guys that might want to sell 'em. That's how I got my blockletter 5150 for like $600.

Again, it's not like I'm limiting myself to 500$, I'll have more than that by the time I decide to buy an amp. I just want to try as many as possible and find one I really like.

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Before I forget, theres a secret to the 5150. The rhythm channel has more gain than you'll ever need. I use the rhythm channel on 7 with the low gain input and I have enough gain to play Children of Bodom, BLS, Megadeth, Metallica, Death, and a bunch of others. The thing is, dial in less than you think you need and slowly bring it up. I have mine at a point where the gain is awesome, but still not so high that the low end turns flubby. So, before you jump onto the lead channel with the gain on 10, see what the rhythm channel can do.


Oh yeah, I don't use active pickups.

The JCM I tried out in the local store didn't have enough gain. Good for classic rock tones though.

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Hmm... I called GC in NYC and asked them if they had>

Mesa(anything)
Soldano(anything)
Framus(anything)
Madison Divinity.
Crate GT3500
Crate BV120
Marshall JCM900.
Peavey 5150/6505/XXX/JSX

And the only thing they had was the Bv120 and GT3500! Wtf! I was expecting a store in NYC to have a bigger selection. They also carry JCM900's but they didn't have any in stock, guess I'll have to try more stores. The BV120 was going for 800$, but he didn't mention if it included a cab(I hope so). I don't plan to buy anything in a store, I'm getting it used or on eBay, unless they provide some payment plan and return options and shit.

So next week I'll lug my axe there to give the BV120 and GT3500(though I don't really want a SS head) a try. I'd go Monday, but I have to go see Nile and Decapitated that night. :P

Hmm... if anyone knowledgeable with amps in the NYC area is willing, I'd invite them to some booze if they show me around to some small shops that have different amps.

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I have a JCM900 combo, through which I use a RAT, sounds pretty damn sweet (to me at least), though I'd probably go more for a Blue Voodoo. With the '900 you don't get all that much gain on it's own, you do have to use a pedal to get a good metal sound, I highly suggest a RAT.

We have quite the amount of amp selection in a very small local dealer around my area. If you are willing to drive 3-1/2 hours to a small rural community in central new york, I can give you directions to McNeil's music and Rumbleseat music in Ithaca. McNeil's have a good selection of Marshalls and a couple Peavey's as well as a a couple crate amps. Rumbleseat makes some pretty killer custom amps for people at a fairly low cost.

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I'd def. take the 5150 over the BV and jcm 900

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they should have a pretty full line of mesas, marshalls and crates.

guitars centers are not dealers for peavey, madison, framus, or soldano. so unless it's used, they wont have it.

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for a splawn... you're looking around the $1,200-$2,000 mark. in us dollars of course. depending on if it's used or new, and also the model.

the price also depends on the current demand. as splawn is such a small name, yet held in high regard(good for resale).
i had a splawn promod 100. i paid $1,300 used, then turned around and sold it for $1,600.

the trick is to wait. i saw several weeks go by without seeing a single splawn on ebay. so i put mine up with a high starting bid. sure enough, within 24 hours i had a buyer contact me about ending the auction early, paid me the full price i wanted. all because there was no competition.

where as when i bought mine, there were several other promods, and they were a little cheaper. so i lucked out.

you might check out a soldano hotrod. they can be had used for about $1,000 on ebay. you'll need a boost pedal to get really high gain tones. but they sound great. i had a hotrod 50 with a maxon od808 and it was a killer sounding combination.

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Soldano also makes the avenger. A mean single channel 50 watter. Pretty much a stripped-down SLO.

Id say go for the 5150 combo,considering your budget.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SOLDANO-YAMAHA-...1QQcmdZViewItem

There's supposed to be a head version of this amp. This is something I'd look for.



Don't overlook a rack setup too. If you shop right, it won't cost you anywhere near as much as you might expect for great tone.

Such as a Rockmaster
and one of these, and for just under 500$ you've got a bitchin' setup.

Argh... I have no idea how any of those sound. Does that rack setup sound at all like a 5150? How about that Engl E530 Preamp? Such mysteries... It's so hard to decide without even playing an amp.

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I can vouch for the Rockmaster because I have one and it is a great bang for your buck. Nice cleans and good gain. Separate loops for every channel and a global loop.

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the engl 530 sounds kind of marshall like

it has a really open/dynamic sound

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Or something like this?

Useless... I have a practice amp, I meant a real rig.

I'll look into that Rockmaster preamp, Engl E530, BV-120(or 50), JCM900 and the 5150/6505. I'll see whatever I can try. Thanks for all the help.

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e530 is better than the rockpro,and I would pick a 5150 over a jcm900 for metal.Not that the jcm's cant do it,they just lack a bit much gain.

I understand that about the JCM, but it wouldn't hurt to try. Besides, I use high gain pickups and I wouldn't mind using a tubescreamer of some sort.

But yeah, if the E530 has a Marshally dynamic sound, I guess that's the perfect excuse for me to ditch the idea of a JCM900, as that Engl preamp has lots of gain/balls right? I assume how much you drive that preamp with a poweramp is what gives it the balls, what are some poweramps to consider?

Holy crap, how about this? http://cgi.ebay.com/DEGARMOs-SOLDAN...1QQcmdZViewItem

How's that? Take a look at who the owner was too.

So my options are:

Heads/Combos: 5150/6505, XXX, Blue Voodoo, JCM900.

Preamps: Engl E530, Peavey Rockmaster, ...


What about ROCKTRON preamps? Anyone tried any? I know Jim Malone of Arsis uses a Chameleon 2000, which is a rather cheap preamp(not tube). I like the crunchyness on their record but is it a good preamp? The Rocktron Prophecy is an all tube preamp... there's a fuckload of people bidding on the only one on ebay right now too. Must be rare and great I suppose?

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Prophecy's are the fucking shit if you can afford one.e530 is quite marshallesque,but way more balls.Check out peavey classic poweramps,they go pretty cheap,with an engl.

Cool, they go for quite cheap.

So how about this:

Engl E530 (500 bucks) + Power amp(250 bucks) + cab(how much, like 250 for a good 2x12 or 4x12? Reccomend some good cabs for around 250$, store price, as I won't buy a cab on ebay due to 100$+ shipping). I heard some 530 samples, sounded pretty fuckin professional.

So I'd get a kick ass rig for 1000 bucks, not bad. I'm still considering the BV and 5150, as those will be easier to find and try out. Time to open that new savings account.

Edit: I can also get a rack power conditioner for like 60$ right? That's something I'd want to invest in, as well as a hotplate perhaps. I'd be looking at 1200$ if I grab the hotplate... Hmm, how are those "volume boxes"? Do they really work as well as a hotplate? Otherwise, my neighbours will have to put up with my racket until I have enough for a THD hotplate. Perfect excuse to ask every neighbor to put in some cash to do that.

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The 530 is a great preamp, I'd recommend it to anyone. You can EQ it to anything you want, but it leans towards an 80s metal sound. that's not all it can do, with the right equipment it pulls off anything from jazz to death metal (i'm not even kidding, it's freakin' versatile) Make sure you have a good poweramp and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE invest in a good cab. The cab will have more effect on your overall tone than your poweramp.

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I am aware that the cabs/speakers are very important. What can I get for 250$ new? I think I prefer a 2x12 as it will be easier to move from place to place, and it'll be less expensive. And when I'm gigging and shit I'll invest in a 4x12.

I considered the Genz Benz G-Flex 2x12, but it's way outta my price range. What other 2x12's are good for 250? Anything will do, so long as it's decent, but in that price range. I'm not bI don't want a bassy sound, I'll leave that up to my EQ, just a regular cab with Celestions or vintage Celestions or whatever, don't really know much about speakers. I guess I prefer closed back to prevent dust from building up, and that gives it a more compressed sound too right?

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The G-Flex can be had for pretty cheap if I remember correctly. I might get one for a 3 quarter stack. Try rocksolidamps, I think Derek still sells them.

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Look into the Triple XXX, great bang for your buck. And fuck Marshall's, they are way overrated.

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Meh,marshall's are alright.Not generally high gain amps,but JCM900's and JTM's definately not overated.Same with their cabs.Marshall's are generic and basic, but not overated.

Just got back from a Nile show. They used JCM2000's. Fuckin brutal if you ask me, but I figure they used a booster pedal/have their 2000's modded.

I hear the XXX is a dark amp, like slightly muddy. I'm seeking pure sound clarity, which is why I'm aiming a lot for that Engl Preamp, got my eyes set on that. I will try the BV-120 or 50 as well as the 5150 if I can.

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Cranked JCM's are tits.5150's sound like the amp for you.

The DSL 100 is a kick ass amp, not only "ok", and it does not need a boost to get a nice tone, do not compare this amp to the TSL 100. I personally think marshalls are underrated because of all overrating

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The JCMs aren't really high gain amps as far as I am concerned. I have played several at shops and wasn't even half impressed. As for the Triple XXX, it has more low end seemingly than the 5150, but if you EQ it correctly it can sound pretty much exactly like the tone from bands that use the 5150. Cheers

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fuck everything else, just get yourself a marshall jcm2000 dsl 100, i have this amp and its everything a metal head can ever want, awesome distortion, awesome clean, basically a great amp, play one and you'll see

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the 900's and 2000's have plenty of gain. the 800's don't.

you have to have them turned up past like 2-3 for the sound to open up.

didn't you just barely have a thread asking about the xxx v.s. 5150?
5150's and xxx's sound nothing alike in real life.

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I've heard clips of the 5150 and I've played a Triple XXX several times recently. If you play with the EQ and gain on the Triple XXX enough it sounds very similar to the gain channels on the 5150.

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that's like watching a porno and acting like you know what it's like to fuck co-ed kelly.

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Heh,nice analogy.

What do you think of the Engl E530 rack setup I have in mind? Could you point out some specific 2x12's and poweramps to go with it?

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just as long as its a decent 212 you should be fine, get a marshall 1936.
avatar cabs seem good and not too expensive.

apart from that 212's from decent companies are always good.

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Hmm I'm guessing I'll get a Genz Benz GFlex 2x12, they look nice and quite portable. Do they sound bassy or crystal clear? Middy-high clarity is all I want, but I need that punchy bass too for those chugs. :P The day I'll need even more headroom I'll invest in a 4x12 and have a 3/4 stack. Does that sound like a good idea? I don't need supermassive headroom at the moment, a 2x12 should be sufficient for band practice, recording and small gigs right?

I could actually buy the gear now if I wanted to, I have a fuckload of cash from college grants and loans but I want to wait and test out a few tube amps and cabs beforehand. I don't want to go crazy with cash right now, I just bought an EQ pedal, a Boss NS-2, some new pickups, a hardshell case, some tuners, clothes, some patches/stickers, books for college, clothes, concert tickets, I may be buying a new neck for my BCR, and a bunch of other small crap that is piling up. Lol, thank god for financial grants.

That sample on RockSolidAmps for the E570(A Suffocation clip), can the E530 pull off a similar sound? Anyone know of any sites that have high gain clips of the E530?

Reccomend 1 specific stereo poweramp to get. It must be compatible with 8 ohm stereo and 4ohm mono and have no more than 150W. It doesn't the affect the sound too much does it? Should I get a solid state poweramp cuz it won't require as much maintenence? Do they sound as good? 200$ is the max I'll spend on one. I just need just enough watts to push the GFlex cab.

By the way, do you know of any cases in which I could fit a rack setup and the G flex? I can't carry my guitar case, rack case, and GFlex all at once. :P

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haha no, the 530 certaintly cant get as brutal as the 570


however it can get fairly brutal though, and in a different way then the 570


ill have a 530 clip for you in a few hours maybe

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Thanks. I don't play insanely super gain all the time, but stuff like Nile, Decapitated and Vader is the kind of grind I wanna be able to acheive, maybe even a bit more at times(I use a X2N and ToneZone as bridge PU's). I also like some massive grind like Rotten Sound, Suffo and Nasum and shit. The 530 does have massive balls, right? Is it as brutal as a 5150? I love brutal sounds but I don't want to sacrifice versatility only for super brutal palm mutes. I'm fairly impressed with the lead and clean sounds it has, but I need to hear some more of the high gain rythm stuff it can do. I found one sample that was gradually increasing gain with the same riff played over and over. Was nice but I'm not sure if it can do more than that.

Does the poweramp allow you to acheive more gain, or does it rely solely on the preamp? Would using a E530 with a Maxon OD808 be a good idea? I certainly want that Suffocation sound in that 570 clip, if it can do that then I'll be quite pleased.

If you're recording something, let me know what settings you're using, like where the gain knob's at, what channel, EQ, pickups, tone wood, cab, etc. And do something with a lotta balls if you don't mind, cause that's exactly what I need to know it's capable of. Thanks a lot for the help.

Any other E530 owners are encouraged to share samples, please.

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it sounds way different then the 5150, alot less harsh
i have no idea what a boost pedal would make it sound like


ok i just did a really sloppy take of Kill your mother rape your dog by dying fetus with the gain around 5 with my jackson dk 2 with an emg 85 in the bridge (dont let the gain at 5 fool you, i had it up higher when i first plugged it in but it sounded abit too fuzy, so i clocked it down abit)
the eq i used when recording was a fair bit different then what i use when plugged into my poweramp and cab.
as for a cab, didnt use a cab, however i borrowed my friends V amp for cab simulation, and i also stuck my bbe sonic maximizer at the end off all.

ok well im uploading the file in you send it right now....

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KILL KILL KILL!



EDIT: yes i know its very sloppy, i think my guitar out of tune

also, the 530 can sound a bit more nasty then this if you really want, but it gets way muddy if you turn the gain past 7ish

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Argh, that was a pretty bad sample. Well I won't judge the preamp on that, but it sure wasn't convincing. Thanks for the help though.

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just deal, nigga

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Cool shit man. http://youtube.com/w/Dying-Fetus---...h=dying%20fetus

Just hooked up my 5150 to my 1960a, sounds awesome. Has that nice smooth midrange grind w/ out the scooped tone.

Cool. Do you think it would sound nice with a Genz-Benz G-Flex 2x12? And how much did you get your 1960a for? In 2 weeks or so(after midterms) I'll lug my axe to some guitar shops in NYC(got a list of like 5 to visit, so I'm doing it all in one day lol) and I'm going to try out whatever they have, but in particular the BV-120, 5150/6505, XXX, JCM900, and whatever others catch my attention.

I doubt they'll have anything from Madison, Framus, Engl, Splawn, etc. but I haven't played any high gain tube amps before, so it would be a good idea for me to test out as many as I can, as I don't even know what makes a tube amp sound like a tube amp. :P I know it's like more "organic" and "natural" with tube saturation and shit, but honestly I have no idea what it really sounds like in real life.

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Cool video.

Word, is that really DF or is it another band doing a cover?

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of course its dying fetus,

everyone is there


tally,galliger,netherton,and voyles

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Necrobutcher's clip was kind of muddy, but I believe the 530 can get extremely brutal.

mine's a little on the too bright sounding side so if you take the mean of necro's and my clips you'll have an idea of what the 530 can do...

If i had my setup at home (it's at my rehearsal space) I'd do more clips...maybe this weekend when my band and I start recording, i'll do a little seperate thing (my band's alt-rock, not BR00T4L METUHL at all) for ya.

I forget the settings on this clip, but I remember I boosted my treble and backed off my bass...probably not a good idea. I had it w/ a Peavey Classic 60/60 poweramp and Marshall 1960A cab, w/ shure sm-57 off-axis.

Pretty simple repetitive riffage.

http://s65.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=...AE02YYZRNHBRH9V

Also dont judge the ENGL via direct recordings....it SUCKS at direct recording, no matter how much shit you put in front of it.

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Wow, sounded fucking great. Thanks. Yeah I know direct recording sucks, every amp that has an out that I've tried for recording sounded like ass.

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Here, i just threw that old clip into audacity and threw a bass boost on it + some other shit...


smaller file too :P

http://s65.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=...4S2TDI9818MDDZ6

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I was thinking of buying rack gear myself, I was curious to know what (cost effective) gear I would need to go with an Engl 530? (Btw, is there anyway I could put it through a JCM900 combo?)

what you NEED to go with a preamp is basically a poweramp and a cabinet. (your JCM900 combo, if equipped with an effects loop, would work as these. Simply plug the preamp's 'out' into the JCM900's 'in', 'effects loop return' or something of the like.

However if you go the poweramp+cab route you can choose from some of these:

Poweramps:

Mosvalve.....$100-200 used on ebay. Discotinued. Great solid state poweramps.
Peavey Classic Series Poweramps.....$200-400 on ebay. Discontinued. cheapest tube poweramps out there, well worth it.

those are the "cost effective" ones that are geared for guitar. you can get a PA poweramp and use it too, though.

with cabs you can get $300 and look for some used marshall cabs or go avatar or look for a good deal on a Genz Benz G-Flex (i've seen 'em go for $275 on harmony central).

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I got a pretty good deal, 5150 block letter for $670, 1960 for $350. I personally haven't tried the G-Flex, but I'm more than sure enough that any high-end cab will sound good with it. I was somewhat worried when I bought it, as I thought it won't be tight and balanced as much as the matching 5150 cab might sound with it, but I'm more than satisfied now.

yeah half mast's clip sounds more like what the 530 actually sounds like

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Thanks Halfmast',

Yeah so basicly I can get the E530 now and run it through my JCM900 until I can afford poweramp plus cab? Thanks for the info!

pretty awsome engl deals on ebay. would you get screamer or fireball?

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Fireball.