Im currently researching my next guitar i wish to purchase and i really like the epiphone style. BUT alot of people bag them as being gibson rip-offs. Are these people just rich arse kids who have never had to hear the word budget or are the epiphone lacking in quality. I play alot of john lowery's stuff, a perfect cirlce, slipknot, mudvayne, soad, etc.. dont bag my style just cos the majority of you guys are death metalheads. im currently looking at the epiphone goth series mainly cos i like there look and you cant find that elsewhere. They have 2 Alnico V Humbuckers by the way. i dont know shit about pick-ups. The other brand im lookin at is ibanez rg series but fuck everyone has one of them, but are they really that good? they just look so normal. any comments would be appreciated AND yes i have tryed to search this topic but did not find what i wanted.

1) This should be in the GUITAR forum. duh
2) buy the ibanez rg

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I don't consider epiphone a rip off since they're...(here comes it)

MANUFACTERED BY GIBSON!

Annyways, their just the lower end gibson models, like what Squire is for Fender,
I guess such a "pristine" brand as Gibson wouldn't like to sell cheapish guitars under the Gibson brand or something.

And just buy that Ibanez. Looks aren't everything, it's about sound and playability. And the RG look metal enough for me

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the epiphones these days do lack in quality compared to the real thing.

Hrm .... well ....


Epiphone's makes are very inconsistent. I've played one Zakk Wylde Epi that was
fantastic, and another that was absolutely terrible. I would go for Schecter if I were you, as their inspection standards are very excellent. As for Ibanez's looking "normal" compared to Gibson .... I guess the Les Paul and the SG are very unique designs, huh

And don't expect to be a regular poster here if you're going to cite SOAD, APC, Slipknot and Mudvayne as your favourite bands, because one of two things will happen :

1. You will have to accept the fact that none of those bands are "br00tal" whatsoever, and start listening to music that we recommend ( and I highly recommend our recommendations ). OR :
2. You will constantly argue with us defending your points of view until you are banned. Yes, liking nu-metal here puts you in that bad of a light, unfortunately.

What I would do, if I were to purchase an Epiphone, is find the one you want from a store, and get THAT ONE. And put better pickups in it. But you're getting ass-pillaged on the price, as you'll be paying list. I say you're better off getting an ESP LTD or a Schecter from E-bay or Musician's Friend.

EDIT : Just realized this should'nt have been in gear

John kinda hit the nail on the head, it's pretty much hit-or-miss with today's epiphones. The really old ones where actually pretty good, the new ones I've played where all crap. (and I've had two real les pauls for a while, a classic and a standard)

compared to Gibsons the hardware on the Epi's is pretty much crap, they detune more easy and the sustain is pretty bad, you can also blame that on the wood used on the Epi's. Pick up an Epi and pick up a Gibson LP after that, notice the huge ass weight difference... Gibson Les Pauls are pretty heavy, especially compared to Epi LP's.

It kinda depends on what you're going to do with it too. Are you a beginner or intermediate? Keep in mind that they're not 'bad' guitars but you could do better on that budget. Like a used guitar and the ones John Holland posted above.
Keep in mind that if you want to sell that Epi it's not going to be worth shit anymore. a real Gibson keeps his value and there's a reason for that.

About Ibanez RG's. Yes, they are that good. The higher series that is, they come with decent pickups and if you're lucky, with a decent trem. They've got tone and play like a dream, loads of real shredders and solo guitarist use RG's, why? because they're damn fast and comfortable to play. They're not really heavy sounding guitars, a Les Paul with EMG's will sound far more heavy but isn't nearly as fast to play and the neck seems like a baseball bat compared to the pencil necks on Ibanez RG's.

Older RG's are very affordable and offer great quality, keep an eye out for Wizzard I equipped RG's, those have great necks, anything above the 550 series is worth a try.

get a tokai they are better than epiphone

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I have an Epiphone Les Paul Custom in ebony...

I also have a Gibson Les Paul 1960 Classic Reissue

Comparitively? the Gibson is SLIGHTLY better. But I know for a fact I got a decent epiphone. i've played other epis that are SHIT! utter, utter shit. (The G-400...uggghhhhh...that neck is like playing a woodblock)

The Gibson has slightly better resonance/acoustic quality.
The Epi gets out of tune a little too easily for my taste....i'm thinking of switching out the tuners on it for something else, that should make it an A+ guitar rather than the A-/B+ it is right now.


basically you'll want to go into a guitar store and play all the epis you can, until you find one that plays well, and get THAT exact one, dont let them get one of those factory boxed ones, it might be shit compared to what you get.


I once played an Epi Goth explorer that I liked. I want an explorer or a V so bad....but i have enough guitars

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Hey, if you're looking into Gibson type guitars, take a look at some Edwards models. I've never played one, but I've heard many people say that quality-wise, it's in between high-end LTD's and Standard ESP's. I've been having my eye on this Edwards Les Paul and might be getting it for my next guitar:
http://img159.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/...85cd_blk_02.jpg
Oh yeah, I forgot to say that they're made in Japan, and ESP owns them. Here's a site that shows bunch of their models, don't forget to look at all the pages cuz there's more than one.
http://www.ikebe-gakki.com/shopping...cate=1&brand=57

I wouldn't call SOAD nu-metal. They are stereotyped a lot because of the time they came out and the bands they tour with, but a lot of their stuff sounds very thrashy. To me, at least. I used to hate them just because I thought they were nu-metal, then my sisters listened to them all the time and I realized they are a decent band.

And all he has to do is not talk about those bands. I mean, I'm no nu-metal fan, but I don't like a lot of the music talked about on these boards...death metal, black metal, etc... But then I don't sit here and say that my music 0wnz all and start shit. So I don't get myself into trouble.

As far as Epiphones go, I've played a few Epi LP's and did not like them (and the Gibson Les Paul is my all time favorite guitar). I'd say just do a lot of searching and keep an open mind. When you see something halfway interesting, look for reviews on the internet. I've never really been a fan of funky looking guitars and I could never see myself owning one, just standard strat-style or LP-style. But then I just got my RR3 today, and she's a beauty, and plays amazing too. So I just suggest that you don't focus so much on one or two possibilities.

Then again, if you do want to stick with one of those two, I'd say go with the RG. I haven't played one, but from what I hear they are great, certainly better than most Epi's.

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lol o i wasnt sayin my taste was the best i was just tryin to give ppl an idea of what i play as i personally dont get into all that death black metal. everyone has there own taste. Yer i guess my best bet is just to visiit a few shops and as ive had enough of playin cheap sounding gear the rg does look a lot more better quality evan if it doesnt have the look im after. and quality is above looks in my opinion.

Yea man they ripped them off right down to saying Gibson on the truss rod cover . But on a more serious note. I'm very happy with my Epiphone. I bought the Les Paul custom and I love it.

Jackson, get Jackson, they look more badass than anything said here, and there good quality for the price (better than an RG IMO)

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the only really good jackson is a USA made one. there goes your quality/price ratio outta the window...

Actually, the high-end pro series aren't bad, ex: RR5, SLSMG, and the Kevin Bond Rhoads. They're not perfect, but they're pretty good in build quality and pickups can be swapped.

they aren't bad but in their price range you could do better IMO. they're like high-end LTD's you know? just -not- it, but getting close.

american made jacksons are damn near perfect though.

That seems to be the case with all guitar companies nowa days except for ESP LTD models. The Older models of alot of guitar companies were very good. They felt like guitars when you picked them up. Now days it seems like when I pick up an import series Jackson or some other brand... It feels like a piece of shit that was just glued together.

I'd say that the best deals for guitars under like $1200 are high-end LTD's, Jackson Stars, and some companies like Edwards, oh I guess Schecters are pretty good too.

Yeah I like the LTD models. They feel really good. Thet are the few companies today that make guitars under 1000 dollars that feel good.

I got am Epi Goth guitar and it is actually a very nice guitar. I have done ass loads of modifications but it played good from the start. I played about 15 others, of the same model, before I found this one that played and felt good. I bought it and replaced all the electronics and most of the hardware, and adjusted a few things. Its a dream now. Here is what a Epi goth could be if you got vision.

Attached Images

	Bad Ass Epi.jpg (38.0 KB, 255 views)
	Epi headstock.jpg (24.9 KB, 188 views)
	Dream Epi.jpg (48.0 KB, 152 views)

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yer vision and a fat wod of cash lol. nar thats fuckin nice man thats pretty much exactly what i want except id perfer the epiphone goth les paul imo. but yer thats looks so good.

Not really a fat wod of cash. Price it one day. I did all the work myself. I payed for the EMGs, Carvin switch, stacked vol/tone knobs, got the scrap wire from work, get the solder and batteries from Radio Shack, got the 1/16" Aluminum diamond deck from Ebay, 1/8 hex socket bolts and heavy duty spay paint from Home Depot just to begin with. I have had fantasized about working on a Les one day. Not much would be different. I didn't include everything I bought or did, but I'm not rich just so you know. It didn't all happen in a week but took a year to make that guitar. It took 6 months just to find that one guitar. Most Epis will not play well.

Not much money but much time.

Just price the custom cut pickgaurd I made for less then $10. I just found people I worked with to help me make it. Free.

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Very,very nice job.

I just got a wine red gibson Les paul ,Its got flame top , Ive never seen that on a custom.
I wanted a Black one but the I saw the wine red and played it, It was sweet .
Someone told me that Gibson uses the worse wood on blacks since you cant see the flametop anyway.
Anyway back on topic, I dont like EPIs , I think LTDs are better for the money , come with better pick ups usually real Duncans or EMGs ,
Ive never played a EPI I like .
Ive played a few EPIs and hated em all.
In my opinion the EC1000 s if you can't afford a real Gibson or don't like Gibson is a sweet guitar , which is lighter and alot cheaper than a real Gibson.

Gibson is pretty much dead. Prices are way higher than they used to be, quality is way lower than it used to be, and all the workers now have a quota to work on instead of concentrating on making a great guitar. You see, workers no longer get weeks to months to work on guitars...they now get hours. So to get a Gibson that costed $1500 of quality ten years ago, you have to pay around $3500 now. Gibson is a business now, Nashville ruined them.

If I were you XIII, I'd go ahead and get the Epiphone and every now and then spiff it up with some custom parts of your choice (specifically pickups).

For your taste in music...you might wanna look into Schecter too

A Schecter C-1 Exotic is my DREAM guitar. I like it even better than the Ibanez Steve Vai Jems, which is saying a huge deal.


Schecter, Schecter, Schecter! They inspect 1 out of every 100 guitars that roll off of the assembly line, at random. Thier lower priced guitars are equal to mid-priced guitars of other companies, and their mid-priced guitars equal to higher priced guitars of other companies, and so on.

Schecter is another nice guitar , I played a few Dean 79s ,they are pretty cool for like $600.
Gibson is very expensive .you can buy a ESP eclipse for half of what you pay for the Custom. But I wanted a real custom so im happy .

Unless its a real low quality piece of crud guitar ,more often than not its the player who makes the difference provided you have a good amp .

I have a EPI Les Paul junior, it's by no means the 'greatest' guitar on earth but it's light and can take some hammer and has survived gigs and random alternative tunings and string gauges. Mind you the first thing I did with it was rip out the pick-ups and put in a EMG 81!

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i just bought the limited edition epiphone midnight black from musiciansfriend and let me tell you this guitar kicks ass!! it came loaded with 2 emg 81's. the action was good out of the box, it looks good and feels good. its a little heavy, but its an all mahagony body. not all epi's are bad

epi's arent bad but compared to a gibson there is no comparison , however again this is subjective . I feel strongly a LTD is closer to a ESP than EPI is to a real Gibson.

But if you think your particular axe kix arse it kix arse

Epi's aren't as good as Gibsons but they're fucking good if you get the older ones, I bought a limited Ed. Les Paul 7 and it's fucking gorgeous, it cost me £250 and would sell now for about £500 used at least. Epi's are the same as any guitar, 1 might be brilliant but then another of the same type might be rubbish, luck of the draw, I'd save and get a Gibson though.

Ibanezs..
I recommend them to a lot of people but i personally dont like them. I recommend them because i know they make good guitars for the price, but I just dont like the feel, personally.

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thats right a good guitar is a good guitar regardless the manufacture. just play them before you buy. if anything check out warmoth.com and build your own.

NO RANS ARE THE BEST

damn, im suprised we havent banned this guy yet from mt for openly liking nu metal!

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that isnt forbidden (as long as they don't start "y u not love korn heer" threads)
but it occurs to me most nu-metal lovers are in their teen asshole years

Very nice Soul, I must say I'm jealous. Just out of curiosity's sake though how many hours did you have to put into it to make it that awesome?

i know, but not even the odd "the bands you like blow" comment has grazed him.

Oh well, maybe later.

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There is a Japanese company called Signature who make Gibson copies, and they are very good quality. Probably better than the over priced crap Gibson put out these days.

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Get a ESP/LTD or a Dean ,
Great quality but under a grand

If you have your heart set on a Gibson style guitar, before you cough up your coin on an Epi, please have a look at the old Tokai Loverocks, Orville, Greco, or Burney brands. Orville is a made in Japan for Japan only Gibson. Built at Gibson Japan as were the old Epiphones. Orville's have the correct "bookstyle" headstock and are as good quality as the Gibson production lines at the time (70's-80's). Greco's are Japanese Gibson knockoffs, but offer features stock such as Schaller or Grover tuners, high quality pickups(not name brand though), ebony fretboards, single piece Honduran Mahogany bodies and necks, excellent binding, at a fraction of the cost of Gibsons. Burneys have a slight body modification except for the really old models.

All of these are what is known as the "Lawsuit" brands. These were the brands that Gibson US went after, except for Orville and Epi Japan, for building a higher quality instrument then Gibson was at the time. You will have to search ebay for most of these and you can get any of these in a Lester Custom model usually for under a grand shipped. Most of the time quite a bit less than a grand.

Take a look at www.guitarsjapan.com and see some of these.

Now if these are a bit out of your budget and are still looking at a current Epiphone, do not even look at any bolt on neck Epiphone. It is not worth your time. Look at only the set neck versions. Keep in mind that any figured wood top on a current production epi is a photo figure. Its a picture of figured wood and glued to the top of the guitar then clear coated under a poly finish. This excludes the Elite series which is for better argument as good a quality as a real Gibson Classic level of production guitar. You also might want to look at the Epi 58 Flying V. Every single one of those I have played has been worth the sub $400 they are asking for the guitar. They could ask a couple hundred more dollars for these and would still be worth it.

Also do not totally buy into the Gibson>Epiphone argument. Especially when you are talking about build quality on a Les Paul. Yes, for the most part you "should" be able to pick up a Gibby and it be a higher quality then its less expensive cousin, but I have seen more bad Gibson production guitars in the last 5 years then the same model of Epiphone. Why would you want to spend almost $2000 on a guitar that has poor tuners, sharp fret ends, finishes that have been sprayed over poorly sanded wood or even shipped out with orange peel, when you can get the same model Epiphone upgrade the tuners and pickups, get a fret crown job and a good setup and still pay less then half of the price of the Gibson. Now if you want to play a guitar that has that brand name on it, its your money.

Hell you can even look at the new Agile guitars and really get yourself a deal. Or if you really want a quality guitar go buy a Moser.

You can say what you want about gibson as compared to Epiphones , but ask yourself this how many pros play EPI not too many , Now there are pros that play LTDs , Deans , Ibanezs , Schecters etc .
If you cant afford a real gibson ,and you want a EPI , Cool , But dont compare a EPI Zakk with its Gibson cousin. its like comparing a neon to a cadillac .
All im saying if you like EPI thats ok , But please there is no comparison with a real gibson. If you dont like Gibsons fine . But then you would probably hate EPI too.
How many think a Squire is just as good as a fender ? I dont .
The above is my subjective opinion.

Epiphone are shitty nu-Metal guitars.

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I just bought a Dean ML79 sounds great plays like the devil for under $500.00 and it owns any EPI.

Dean are good guitars and way better than epi's so that was a much better choice.

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Thanks

i got an rg450dxbk ibanez and ive never played a guitar better thin neck all the guitars with 24 frets ive played all are hrd to reach the 24 exept on my ibanez but i badly want a schecter or maybe a jackson

i think gibson and fender are overated
becouse i argue with kids that dont even play guitar saying gibson is best and fender is best but on gay punk and emo bands use those ( exept the classic witch are good)
but i dont hate gison i just hate fender
but i would go with rg ibanez or a good jackson