Hi!

I have a band, and we have a pretty shitty sound in our pracc room because of the "not-so-good" gear.
I played over a powermixer until now (shitty sound) and the other guitar-player played with a fender 100 watt combo, which, I think, is ok.

But just yesterday I played with the gear of a guitarist of another band. It was a Marshall preamp (think about 100 watt) and peavey cabinets, and I couldnt believe...it sounded so much better.

So, what are you guys using and what do you recommend me to buy?

As far as I know its not necessary to have this "preamp-cabinets" thing. I just want to know, with what gear I definitely won´t have a shitty sound. (and pleace not the most expensive stuff, Im young and poor )

thanks already!

for practice I use my framus cobra with 2 mesa cabs. A ge-7 equalizer pedal, a korg overdrive pedal to tighten the sound and a isp noice suppressor pedal.

But that's not affordable for everyone I guess. So with a decent half stack. Let's say a crate blue voodoo or crate schockwave you should have a pretty bitchin sound. blue voodoo can be had for around 300 - 400 secondhand. And the schockwave can also be had for 300 - 400 secondhand

As for cabinets. Marshall 1960 cabinets always sound pretty good. And they are pretty affordable.

Just look around on e-bay and you will find alot of decent stuff

__________________

pre-amps don't come with a wattage rating

__________________

"head"

You're giving head? Oh boy, that won't go well with your mother my young metalhead. Just kidding, you do know that there is an edit post button, so you can fix typos and other errors? I'd go with a Behringer V-Ampire gead and Hartke 4x12 Cabinet to get started. The head is not the greatest, but its good for sound expirimenting until you find a tone that you like, and then you can find a new head that specializes in that type of sound. If you somehow end up with 500 bucks, get a Peavy Triple X secondhand. It's a GREAT head.

__________________

lol...I´m not young and I´m not a beginner at all.
I just don´t know much about that amp stuff etc, still I can play my guitar pretty well.

btw...its mostly the way, that the guys who have to impress with their knowledge about all the tech stuff play guitar worst...anyway...thanks for the post. I think I´m gonna try this "head" and see what it sounds like.

damn man nice, what do you use for your actual gigging?

btw-helvete, i suggest you just go to a music store and try outs lots of different combo amps, we can list hundreds of amps to try out but you just need to go play some for yourselve and see what you like

__________________

Actually, you are wrong. There are tons of great guitarists on this forum that are great at playing and that know their tech stuff from experience. So, even if you aren't young, you still are a noob on this forum, so keep your mouth shut like I had to when I was first here. Respect all those with higher rankings. And don't get a Line 6

Line 6 makes me

and



and

__________________

Hm, you got 79 posts...ain´t that much...and I joined the forum earlier than you! :P

but, come on, let´s don´t be childish...

I never said that all the guys who know about tech etc. suck at guitar playing. But the ones who can´t play guitar mostly try to impress with knowledge about this tech stuff...nevermind!

I would never buy an amp without playing it before. You never really know what it will sound like.

so are you

__________________

Thanks man

I also use that setup for gigging. But I store the amp in our practice room. My dad get's kinda annoyed when I have the amp at home. too loud.

__________________

Yes, but I have been here longer than he has.

__________________

Yea, I know, I'm just giving you reccomendations. Buying stuff without playing it isn't always a bad idea, look around e-bay, you might find what is normally a really nice, expensive amp for half the price. That's how I got my marshall mode four. I never even played it, but I bought it for the good deal and it ended up great. Plus, most music stores don't have a great selection of high-end amps, so buying online is a better bet for that.

__________________

really? didnt know may of 04 came after aug of 05...

yea ebay is a damn good place to buy amps, but you can usually still try them out. say that mod 4 you got, you could have still gone to a store and checked out a mod 4 then bought that one on ebay

__________________

No stores around here had a mode four, its not a big music town, theres only like 3 places, and they only carry entry level to mid level equipment. But it was damn worth the risk of buying before trying.

__________________

that's a lame excuse for not having good gear.

i'm not doubting anyones skills... and i'm not bragging about my own. but i don't see how me having a bunch of nice shit, and knowlegde about it makes me play guitar worse.
it's like those 12 year old kids that have been playing for like 6 months telling ME not to use fx because they "hide your talent" or some lame shit excuse, when really it's because they don't know how to use it.

__________________

thats not what hes saying xdx, hes saying alot of shitty players try and make up for it by learning all they can about gear and shit, so it makes them seem like theyre awsome because they know everything

__________________

aside from the arguement

what type of sound are you going for and how much money you have. eithe way you'll almost get reccomended a crate blue voodoo, shockwave, and from me a peavey ultra for a head. as for cabs look on ebay or go to www.avatarspeakers.com.

__________________

Well, I play in a technical death metal band!

Erm, I dont know if I need this "head+cabinets" thing...is it really necessary for a good sound? or are there combos out there which sound really good?

As far as I know, a 100 watt amp is loud enough...I just want a clear sound, because, as I already said, we got a really shitty sound in our practice room.

I dont do much besides guitar playing, so I am able to spend some money on it , but I dont need the most expensive stuff...we are not going to play in big concert halls anyway!

I ´m from austria and checked ebay...but didnt find this crate blue voodoo anywhere besides ebay.com...and shipping from the usa is too expensive for me. But thanks for that recommendations anyway

A head and cabinet system I use because if I ever decide to switch styles or whatnot, I can switch to a head more designed for that style. Plus I think a cranked tube head and cab beats a combo any day in terms of sound. You can get a good behringer or hartke cab new for I think 300 bucks, same for a head. And 100watts may or may not be loud enough, if its 100watt tube then yea, but 100watts solid state you'd have to hear it, because solid state wattage varies from company to company (guy at guitarcenter told me this). As for companies close to your area, search for Behringer amps, they are all awesome. And I think my head said made in Germany, so I think that may suit to where you live pretty decently. Well, hope I helped a bit.

__________________

Our other guitarist uses a Fender 100 Watt Combo and its loud enough.

I thought of Behringer as well, I think its the cheapest out there...I just got no idea what it sounds like. :/

Are Behringer heads and cabs good or just the cabs? Because I have seen a set lately which was like marshall head and behringer cabinet! I dont know if the combination is good...

The behringer heads are good, most of them can't go as loud as a Marshall or a Peavy but they go loud enough for practices. If your looking for a long term investment that you can gig with as well, I'd go with a marshall, crate, or peavy. And yea, some combos are good, I just like the flexibility of head+cab, and it looks cool as hell too.

__________________

omg

__________________

+1 dutchy

__________________

marshall, crate, kustom, charvin,peavy. are what i trust. line 6/ beringer are no un relyable

__________________

you may want to go with a rack setup. you could afford a engl pre amp and a peavey powereamp for pretty cheap. and cabs arnt that hard to come by.

__________________

I know you're just trying to help but just shut up. Behringer aren't good. Its like me saying go buy a spider II because they're so br000O0oo)Tal. It's just not true. And we all know what you think of line 6( ) as previously stated by JH. Its really frustrating reading you're posts in this thread because they're ALL LIES.

Anyway now that I've got that off my chest and I'm good and chipper again I would recommend to you the same thing as you're gonna see alot of in this forum. Either the Blue Voodoo or the Shockwave. Enjoy.

For practice I use a peavey XXX combo hooked up to a marshall 1960 A cab and it sounds great.

if your really on a tight budget get the poor mans triple xxx, the peavey ultra.
it's very comparible to the XXX's some people even think it sounds better then the xxx's but i don't think so.

__________________

anyone remember that n00b that got sigged by xDx that said behringer was nice but expensive?

__________________

Here's how I look at the combo vs. head debacle here :



Peavey 5150 combo versus head : Both have 60 watts and extensions out. At the very most, you can run a 4x12 out through the combo head for extra spread if you want, giving you a total of 6 speakers. Its akin to have a 2x12 and a 4x12
and buying a 5150 head --- except you did'nt pay the extra cash. And as far as loudness, this thing on 3 will shake the rafters, and same goes with a BV combo, an XXX combo, a JSX combo, even the ValveKings are pretty good ( and sometimes you can snag a good deal on the Marshall all-tube combos ).

For the gear lords here : I realize that a combo and extension cab won't sound the same as a head and cab, but when you're strapped for cash its works just fine, damnit


In my opinion, you can NEVER go wrong with a 2x12 tube combo, as it costs just about as much as the head version and you get an extension out PLUS the onboard speakers, and if you're going to and fro from practice you can just unplug the combo and take that with you.

whahaha that dude got owned tripple

__________________

Pfft ... and he stole my opinion of Line 6 ...







LISTEN : Line 6 makes excellent preamps, like the POD, and I don't think anyone can tell me with a straight face that the HD and Vetta are bad amps. Just like any other company, their 250$ solid-state heads just are'nt that great. Yet Behringer seems to have a hard time making anything that holds its own ...

I like the line 6 hd 147 very much. It's just fucking overpriced

__________________

That was our dutchy six_feet_under_420! He was very confused, if i remember right.

yup It was me. I kinda mixed 2 brands up

__________________

But you see most of the time when Line 6 comes up around here for some reason or another it seems to be the Spider II that gets talked about. Instead of some of their better products. I would agree that a POD is a great little gadget and I would also agree that the HD and Vetta can hold their own. I don't understand why they couldn't have just put some better distortion presets on the Spider. Then they could've saved themselves from the deep humilliation of producing it.

People are gonna hate me for this but fuck it The distortion from the original spider I actually like. I have a soundclip of it.

__________________

AARHHHH I HATE U NOW MAN



nah i dont, doesnt luke from sleepterror use a line 6 vendette 2 or sumtin
he has a pretty nice sound imo, not my kinda thing though.

__________________

Never tried the original spider, but I think that Spider II has a pretty cool sound.

__________________

So line6/Spider/Behringer definitely sucks?

blue voodoo and shockwave are pretty expensive.

for example...does this crate head suck? http://www.thomann.de/thoiw2_crate_...l_prodinfo.html

i mean, its kinda cheap!

or this hughes&kettner
http://www.thomann.de/thoiw2_artikel-173013.html

and this marshall:
http://www.thomann.de/thoiw2_marsha...p_prodinfo.html


thanks already

dude, schokwaves and blue voodoos aren't expensive. They can be had for 300 - 400 used

And I never played that crate nor the H&K head so no opinion on those.

But I did play the marshall. And I'm not a big fan of the mg series. But Maybe you like it. Just try one out

__________________

Well, im from Austria, and in the austrian/german ebay I cant find any of these heads. And shipping from the USA is too expensive ofc. :/

If you want something cheaper you could go for a POD or a GT-8 or something along those lines, get a power amp and a 2-12 or 4-12 cab and you'd be set.
Or right now I've got a Crate Powerblock and you can get that really cheap. $200-250 and it will probably sound alot better than what you have now.

Crate powerblocks sucks.

__________________

you picked probably the worst heads from each of those respective companies.

Hahahahah I know haha.

tho, they are the cheapest ones.

400$ for a Blue Voodoo or a Shockwave is a great deal, especially considering how you're paying about 150$ more for that jump in quality. If you pay that much less for a Marshall MG you will regret it.


Way too many people strapped for cash are taking the easy way out and just ordering the cheapest thing with 100 watts that's new from Musician's Friend ... you can snag some old Crate s.s. or old Randall heads for around 200$ that perform beautifully, MUCH MUCH better than the new Crate GT120 ( that thing sounds awful, believe me. And separate EQ-for-each-channel MY ASS ). At the very least, get a Marshall 8100 !!!

100 Watt are more than enough for a guitar amp.

For a solid-state head of 100 watts, the vast majority ( especially those under 300$ new ) will sound like a giant piece of wet cardboard slapping against a fat person's belly with the master gain up past 5 when you palm mute.

Omg

__________________

I've been on a roll lately.

or you can buy my digitech gsp 2101

__________________

Seriously, what do you need a 300 Watt amp for?
Its just not necessary, in the practice room you can´t be that loud because of the drums and live everything is running over a PA in the end.

But 300 watts provide way more headroom than a 100 watts. And your tone will have more clarity if I'm not mistaking

__________________

You don´t have to push your 100 watt amp to its limits...it will be loud enough anyway...

the advantage of 300w to 100w, (especially in the s.s. realm) is headroom. you can actually turn it up loud enough to jam with a drummer or play a show without getting shitty distortion from your power section.

the point of having 300w is to not use all of it.

i for one, could not get by with a 100w s.s. amp. the headroom isnt enough.

besides.. we can talk about watts all day. but you still have to step back and think... "how does it sound?"

__________________

why dont you stick with what you have for a while and save your money to buy something nice, if you just do a half-ass upgrade now your just going to want to replace it in 6 months for something better. But hey, thats just my opinion.

__________________

No, it won't.

Wait, it will, but it sounds like wet cardboard being slapped against a fat person.
It will be loud enough, but will sound terrible. And it does'nt matter if the tone sucks. I was going to mention WHY 300 watts of solid-state power is a must, but I thought that was basically a given, an issue of common sense.

The way solid-state amps sound, its akin to the way your computer runs : Better when you're using less and less of the hard drive's capacity, but when its almost entirely full, its very slow and unresponsive.

When s.s. amps are cranked beyond a threshold of what commonly seems to be 50% power, the sound starts distorting, and in a way that you did'nt intend. My Crate head runs 350 watts at 2 ohms, and with a unit like the Aphex Aural Exciter 204, I can keep the master volume on three and keep up with a very loud drummer with a score of china cymbals.


100 watts solid state is simply not enough, given the way they make them nowadays. It seems that the old Randalls that Dime used, the old Crate heads that Cannibal Corpse used, and the Ampeg VH-130/140 head that everyone is pining after now were made in such a way that they did'nt have this problem,
which I suppose has helped lead to the common misconception that that Marshall MG is going to hold it together at jamming volume.

The only surefire way to avoid speaker farting is to get a s.s. with tons of wattage, or get a tube amp.

I have 200 watt randall half stack as a back up. And it keeps up

__________________

Now I will commend Randall --- their s.s. amplifiers are superb.

i used to play a 160 wats ss poweramp, and a marshall preamp, it just did the job with a drumer, although most 50 or 60 watt tube heads blow me away like a tornado

__________________

Its not that I believe Behringer are best, I was just giving suggestions for decent cheap equipment. I use marshall mode four and peavy triple x most of the time.

__________________

As I already said, our other guitarist is using this 100 Watt Fender combo, and the master volume is always at 3-4...and it really is loud enough! Is your drummer louder than mine?

I just asked my guitar teacher ( who is one of the best guitarists here in austria) about this amp stuff. He said that 100 Watt are more than enough and amps with about 300 watt just arent necessary.
Especially not for a concert, since everything is running over the PA there.

Seriously, I dont know who of u guys is right now! Everyone is telling me something different.

My teacher told me also that one of the best guitarists he personally knows is using a small combo with about 50-80 Watt and he is playing really big concerts. Maybe this amp stuff is just hyped and when it comes to really brutal distortion you won´t hear that much difference anyway I think. If the PA sucks, the sound will be shitty, no matter if you have a 100 watt amp or a 300 watt mesa boogie one.

let me get this straight. You play in a tech death metal with a 100 watt fender in the same room ? What kind of a fender is it ?

__________________

You don´t need the best equipment to play technical stuff...

you don't need the best equipment to play anything. but you're totally missing the point. it's a fender, fender makes some shit amps, and some great amps. but most fender amps are CLEAN amps... and you say you play technical death metal. he wants to know what amp it is.

anyways... as far as wattage goes. 100w s.s. might be enough for you volumewise(must have a soft handed drummer)... but that still means jack shit. you really need to think, HOW DOES IT SOUND?

alot of amps are 100w, some are shit and some are not. an amp is not simply a box of watts. it's something that shapes your sound. i have three amps, all are 100w, does that mean that mg100 is just as good? don't kid yourself.

i'm doubting your teachers understanding of how wattage relates to volume and if he understands the difference between a tube amp and a s.s. amp. being a great guitarist has nothing to do really with knowledge of gear.

the actual volume difference between a 300w head and a 100w head is maybe like 3 to 4db, and as i said before, it's a headroom issue. being able to turn a 300w head up and be as loud as the 100w head, but without the shitty poweramp distortion.
now if we were talking tube amps, headroom may not be an issue, and that's where the 50-80w combo can come in. because tubes breakup in a much more musical way.that's why alot of people will by a 50w tube head instead of something else. they want the breakup.

for concerts, some places mic you, some places don't. you're playing the local stadium? definately a mic... you're playing at the bar & grill down the street? maybe not.

not to mention, band practice. not all bands have huge PA's in there bandrooms. you need to make sure your amp is loud enough for that.

yet in the end, still.... how does it sound?

__________________

But hes just saying that fender doesn't have the greatest distortions usually. Mostly they're known for their cleans. Aside from the Metalhead because we all know that that thing is freakin' br00tal

Yeah I know, those metalheads rule

__________________

If they had effects they'd almost be as brutal as the Spider II. And thats pretty hard to do ya know I wanna go into a store now and turn everything up to 10 on that thing and try turning all the effects on. that'd be so freakin awesome. I think I might actually shit a little in the presence of such br0000tality