got this link from another forum... enjoy the 57 minutes

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...643751&q=guitar

__________________

*gets down on knees and worships Exodus666*



I worship thee, divine Exodus,
And I sing thine praises.

"Thanks for your interest in Google Video.

Currently, the playback feature of Google Video isn't available in your country.

We hope to make this feature available more widely in the future, and we really appreciate your patience."

argh!

Haha where do you live?

Cheers Exodus.

Yay, thanks.

__________________

awesome cool

whats the deal with google video , whats in it for them

__________________

Nothing expresses a note like a compressed double chin

Greatvideo! I'm sathere and going to try a few of the licks etc, definatley 'original' sounding in areas anyway

Nice video.

Can this be downloaded somehow?

__________________

Quoting FaceCrawl from the other forum again:

__________________

sorry to say, but it sounds like he was pushing random shit down. i played like that when i first began. thats well at the beginng of the video

__________________

true, the intro was stupid, and absurdly fast but he had some good melodic chops through out the video. Cool

__________________

okay i know im never gonna be able to play that fast
but it was just random shredding and i didnt like it

some bits were fine

__________________

this guy has never touched a vagina in his life

__________________

Pshh, only when he was born.

__________________

Don't get me wrong...he's a great guitar player and I'm sure there is a lot you could learn from his technique....but listen to the guy talk for fucks sake!!!

Plus that shred for an hour shit gets old fast anyway....good find regardless though.

__________________

__________________

How the fuck can he say he's influenced by blues, jazz and classical, genres based around melody, when all he's doing is shitty sounding random shred.
Nice find.

Yet he has an obsession with fingering.

Maybe the guitar is his vagina

__________________

Wow, once againawesome job and making lol. lolololololololol.

Seriously, did you not hear the fucking blues when he doing pentatonics in a combination of sets of 5s and 3s? Or the jazzy chord progession behind the first solo he diagrams out? Yeah, EVERYONE uses 1st inversion chords, and chords with added notes in the bass. Yeah, you are right, that solo had no meoldy at all. Maybe he shoudl take lesons from Muhammed. He can show him the minor arpeggio.

__________________

i think alot of them just saw the first solo and stopped immediately. Theres alot of quality stuff in there

__________________

Maybe he was too busy watching the sweet-as-hell drumming to notice. Nah, Lane sure wasn't playing random notes, although it did get boring to listen to towards the end of the video.

__________________

Yeh, ok, I stopped watching after 5 minutes. But DEAD, get a fucking life, you seem to dislike me for no fuckin' reason.

I really don't see how his choice of harmonic statements are totally random and without depth. If anything, they are incredibly complex.

I am going to try to say this without making some of you guys mad.

You really think he is jazz, blues, and classically influenced just cause he uses a certain scale? No, he is not, he just says he is. Using pentatonic automatically makes you a blues influenced player?? Yeah, thats retarded.

And Goddamnit people, how isn't playing the same patterns over and over and over again not random. He is playing random, and if you guys say complex just cause he gets atonal, thats retarded. All he did in that first shred clip was do a bunch of boring repeating patterns; ascended 2 per string with a tritone interval on each string, some augmented stuff, those pentatonic things,etc.

ITS random, and the only influence shred like this takes from genres is the scales used, and if you really think all those genres are that simple in that the scale is what makes them, then ah. . .your retarded.

OWNED!

Sometimes I think people believe what others say because they want to. It's examples like this, that maybe do look like random shredding, that irritate me when people say that's all Malmsteen is. Sure a lot of his needless solos are, but deep down some of his shit, is, well, not shit; it's either well thought out, or just well improvised. Also this guy uses the same tone as nearly every other panic shredder there is.

When he ws doing alternate sets of 5s and 3 using pentatonics, thet sounded blusey as all hell. Besides it is a fucking instructional video. Thats what tinstuctional videos are all about showing you "boring"(anything is boring is you play it over and over again) patterns to practice in order to improve mainly technique. DON'T bring up songwriting, because an instructional video on how to write songs would just be stupid. I guess you need a wah pedal and to play slow for it to be good right? Because thats where emotion is.

And no, its not random. Boring, maybe, but not random. Random is, according to www.m-w.com "without definite aim, direction, rule, or method". See he is following a certain scale or pattern. A scale or a pattern is a rule or sorts. Saying what he is doing is random is just a lie "OMG no emotion" type people use to dismiss players like Shawn Lane.

And the term influenced is pretty touchy. It doesnt have to mean that he PLAYS that specific style. But rather his style of playing would be diffeent ahd he not heard X style of music or studied the way "X" type of music is written.

Besides, did you even watch more than the first 30 seconds? Like when he plays thoes slower passage with awesome chord progessions behind them? And goe sout of his way to notate how he uses his whammy bar to give added emotion and feeling?

I'm sorry BlackRoseImmortal, I guess posting a reply on a message board means I have no life. I don't like you because you are a retarded. Plain and simple. You throw out these lofty claims with nothing to back them up. I'm still waiting for you to show me the Malmsteen - Paganini relationship.

__________________

Yeah i saw that stuff with the wammy bar and the slow stuff.

I dont see how shredding super fast through pentatonic with 3's and 5's is anything bluesy at all. I mean when you hear that do you at all remotely think of BB King or Stevie Ray? Not saying they are the only type of blues, but i love it when people like this say they are blues influenced but he couldnt fucking touch those guys if you asked him to very simply just play over a 12 bar blues progression or play anything blues for that matter.

And his melodic stuff isnt, well, very good "melodic" in my opinion. he can do it (even though not very well) but it doesnt mean hes a good melodic player for a MAJORITY of the time he is shredding RANDOMLY. Yes i still say randomly because again, to bring up phrasing again, its very hard to show very much direction around a scale at light speed. You dont allow the notes to resonate around the chord when playing that fast, losing so much color. The most effective time to use speed (and yes this is an improv. technique, they exist, you know, and a better improv.'er contains many of the qualities) is when the chords are changing. Not to use speed all the time and when EVERY chord is changing for that, as we all well know, gets tiresome.

But i think i see where everyone's thoughts are and why everyone thinks the way they do. So instead of bringing up things and explaining stuff to counter this new shred stuff, i will instead try to make the best example i can (although i really like my vocal/singing example in the other thread that nobody seemed to notice).

Ok, my question is, who are the better guitarists, and this time, just for the sake to relieve the arguement of it, dont include song writing in this opinion.

Is Marshall (Harrison?) and Francesco Ferrari better than say, Joe Satriani and Jimi Hendrix? Theres alot more people i could have chosen, but i just randomly chose these two and very very honestly, although different in styles, i am CONVINCED there is a definate answer. Remember, i am not including song writing, and just give us your reasons why stating things like clarity, speed, dynamics, vibrato, improv., versitility, rhythm, ANYTHING.

Yup... Francesco is a terrible musician in my opinion, I doubt I'd even want to see a live perfomance by him in all honesty.

This is not a bad INSTUCTIONAL video at all. Actually, I think it's quite good. Shawn Lane is a phenomemal player.

Madtrixcerenzia, you seem to do nothing but bash on here. Why don't you find another forum to suit your needs, because apparently this one isn't doing it for you. You criticize everything that comes up here. Knocking Shawn Lane is not something I would recommend you do, much less other talent out there as well. I seriously doubt you would hold a candle to any of this shit, so why don't you go find and improv jazz forum to rant at.

Actually i am really into much of the EARLY shred and thats what i am best at but I bash what i think needs to be bashed. And there are alot of other people on here, and on this thread that agreed with me on the views of shred nowadays. i saw this thread long before i made a post but i wait till someone says something i dont agree with then state my disagreement (Is that not what a forum is all about).

You bring shame to the Berklee name, Jaxadam. No TRUE alumni would have these views, because i know too many.

Apparently you can't read very well either, because I've said once before, I didn't graduate from Berklee, I changed majors and colleges and ended up majoring in Mechanical Engineering and Physics. But I'm sure I bring shame to that stuff, too.

I just see you on here downing people that you will never, for the rest of your musical career, be as good as.

Do you have an instructional video? I'd love to see it.

Do you have a signature Vigier guitar? I'd love to see some pics of that, too.

You have got some warped obsession about blues, and think that the only good guitar players out there play that. I know for sure there are tons of music afficionados that would agree Shawn Lane is a great guitar player. Like I said, start practicing today, and you'll never be near him for the remainder of your musical career.

Better yet, go buy a Telecaster, and join a jazz forum, enroll in some jazz college, and forget about metal.

Do any of the people i have bashed have signature guitars or are they even that popular?

Telecaster with Jazz?

Warped obsession with blues???? Are you a dumbass or something, i never once even mentioned me being a blues player cause im not that big of one. I merely used blues as an example because he said he was blues influenced. I could have just as easy used jazz or classical, cause he said he was them as well.

Your words mean nothing because you say them with a low level guitar point of view as you have proven many times.

Check out Shawn Lane's Excaliber model at

www.vigierguitars.com

I believe Muhammed uses these guitars, too. Along with Marshall Harrison, your favorite.

Low level guitar point of view? I don't remember talking about the slightest amount of guitar knowledge on here at all. But if you're interested, I'm sure I've got some ideas to improve your technique, and help you play Scarified better.

I think your ego is starting to outweigh your musical prowress as well.

I already sent a private message apologizing for any rudeness, just for the record.

And also, again, those recordings were done last May, a year into my guitar life, So i feel i have come a long, long way since them, but plan on renewing some of the recordings to show where I am at now.

You are misuing the word random. Again, if you would like, I could type of the definition of random.

See, just because it is hard for YOU to hear what type of pattern he is following doesnt mean he isnt. I CAN hear that there is parttern and structure in his playing. Infact i'd probably be able to hear what in particuluar he is doing compared to a blues player because I don't listen to much blues so my ear isnt accostomed to it. But honestly, pentatonics in alternating triplets and 5ths sounds VERY blusey. Espcialy when you throw in added notes from the blues scale into it. No I don't think of Stevie Ray or BB King, but Blues isnt Steve Ray and BB King, BBking and Steve ray are Blues. Its like saying "When I hear Darkthrone, I don't think Emperor, so they CANT be black metal".

Like I said before you are taking Shawn Lane out of context. This is an INSTRUCTIONAL video not a CD or a collection of his song writing. If you watch an instructional video built around shred don't expect an instructional video built around something else. I don't listen to Cannibal Corpse expecting Paganini, do you?

It's liek what was said in teh drum fourm. You ahve these peple who still worship these old guitarists and refuse to admit new guitarists have anything to offer because they are intimidated.

And a final point i'd like to make is that when artists play fast, they are still playing. I know this sounds obvious, but listen. A progession of notes, no matter how fast you play, remains the same, and and just because it is fast doesnt take away for the tension/relief certain note progessions create. It doesnt take away. It may change a certain setting or mood the TEMPO creates, but the mood created by the specific notes is unchanged. I know you wil bitching about some bullshit "OMG OMG I KNOW PEOPLE AT BERKLEE!!!"(who gives a fuck, you didnt go there so your word is as good as mine. Even worse since I've been paying quite a bit longer than you and have taken Music Theory classes) but that is fact. A minor third interval is a minor third interval no matter how fast you play, and wil still give teh same effects of creating tension. Just the same as a I IV V cadense will provide relief (thus why so many passages are ended with it). Just ebcause YOU can't break down fast passages of music to hear these progessions doesnt mean they arent there and doesnt mean otehrs can't hear them. Just because you need your hand held through quater notes and slow bends to get emotion and feeling from a lick doesnt mean I do.

And to quote a certain two great men. "Speed=Emotion".

__________________

Alright dude, we will just have to disagree.

I think playing ONLY very fast with no phrasing and just patterns is easy and stupid and i dont like it; but you seem to. I like it when an artist is musical and a lyricist with his playing, and may use speed if he wants that desired effect, but doesn't rely on it like people such as Shawn Lane and that Marshall guy. We are never going to agree with one another so no point in argueing further.

PS You playing longer than me or taking a theory class or knowing a I IV V I chord progression doesnt mean your all high and mighty either. I'd like to see you understand a chapter of 20th Century Harmony by Vincent Persichetti, currently the book i am studying from which requires you to know ALL classical theories (Harmonic Functions, composition, chord progressions, etc.), including some knowledge of counterpoint.

I bet you know all there is to know on theory and you know every professor at Berklee and you knowlege of jazz and blues is greater than anyone's here. Wait, you know what, I don't believe it. Youre just a pompus Steve Vai loving dickbag who is convinved that a certain group of guitarists are the best. And since you have no way to show that at all (since it isnt true) you resort to making extreme claims about how you are so much more advanced in your understanding of theory than everyone else. Guess what? Youre fucking stupid.

And whats funny is you have failed to address almost any of the points I've made. You just go back to the "WELL I KNOW THEORY AND TEACHERS AT BERKLEE!!!!" bullshit.


I probably would do fine with you super elite amazing book. I've flipped through it before, and it is actualy the oposite fo what you say. Instead of being extremly difficult it is written in a way that is quite easy to understand (in comparrison to otehr books dealing with teh subject matter) with lots of examples and clear explanations.


Youre not special, youre not smart, you have no idea what youre talking about, youre just flat out annoying, now shut the fuck up.

__________________

Shawn Lane has no phrasing? I mean, c'mon. Some people want to sound like chiming birds or singing whales, some want to sound like macintosh computers with crank poured in the harddrive. One is not more legitimate to the other. Sure, Paul Gilbert or Rusty Cooley won't be able to play a 12 bar blues like Stevie Ray or Buddy Guy, but then again Ry Cooder and Albert King would'nt have ever
been able to release something on Shrapnel.

When he broke down what he was doing and played things slow, I'm sorry, but you're an idiot if you think there's no direction behind it, because he explicitly shows WHAT melodic direction he's taking and WHY, and what it accomplishes, even with the "deedly deedly deedly" fast runs. Like DEAD said, he's doing just as much thinking and contemplating about what he's doing, except he's playing fast

WHY can't we just admit that Shawn was a great guitarist instead of being insecure about our own playing abilities and down him? He's supposed to make us want to practice, damnit!

Listen, im not saying his runs are random, i know he does certain lines with certain patterns. Whats random is when he chooses them. When these guys make a song or improv., they just say, "Oh, lets put my run of 5's and 4's here" then plays it. Then after that he'll be like "hmm, lets just throw in this other run of 5's and 3's." then plays it and so on. Its never like, lets do something off the top of our heads, rather, for these guys its "picking the order" of what they have done hundreds of times, (that are predictable) is about the only thing that comes off the top of thier heads.

Hey DEAD, just for example, why dont you tell me how German Chords and Tritone Substitution relate although one is classicaly derived and the other from jazz. I mean, you should know all about that since you have to know it in order to understand the 3rd chapter of 20th century harmony but taking it a step further. Since the book is so easy you should be able to explain a simple theory question like that in a second.

woohooo, is it ever on now.

__________________

I may have a hard time putting this into word but i think yo0ul understand what i'm saying

And in Jazz when you have a progession starting with a dom. 7th, if the following chord is a dom. 7th a tritone away, classical theory would notate it as an Aug. 6th chord, specifically the German Chord.

It's been almost 2 years since I've seriously read into theory but i think that is correct.

Anyway, I never said the actual material in the book is easy, I just simply said that the way the book is written it makes the material easy in comparison to other books. Don't start whpping out chapter quotes and shit. I dont own the book, I never read it, I ust SKIMMED through it to get an idea. Unfourntatley I have to save money for a laptop and living expenses when i go to school, so spending $35 or so on a book isnt my priority.

__________________

I don't care that you don't happen to know this particular theory, but the relation is this:

The purpose of an augmented sixth chord is to be a replacement of the IV in the most simplest version a I IV V I chord progression. It is used to add harmonic tension and color. It is derived from composers using the chromatic note on the weak part of the beat but then changing it to the strong part creating the augmented sixth.
Anyways, the aug. 6th called the German Chord is enharmonicaly a dominant 7th. Jazz theory states that any two dom. 7th chords with the same tritone can be interchanged (coincidentaly, they are a tritone apart as well). Well, if you think, another chord besides the IV that can come before a V is the V/V aka the secondary dominant ii chord.

This is the relation:The German chord just happens to be what would be the tritone substitution of the V/V.

Now, mind you, many times the cadential 6/4 (tonic in 2nd inversion) is often placed between the aug. 6th and V because that will eliminate the parallel fifths caused from an aug. 6th.

Or you could just use a French chord, which is just the German chord with a b5 which adds even more harmonic tension and eliminates the parallel fifths and the need for the cadential 6/4

Now look DEAD, dont take this explanation as a cocky "haha you dont know what the theory was", cause many people dont. But just for the record:

*I dont lie.
*I know many Berklee alumni; i NEVER said professors.
*I am skipping my senior year of high school and going to college there next year my theory has to be high in order for me to even consider college for music and making a good living from my instrument. (In other words, my opinions should matter to some degree because i take the instrument serious and work hard to have a good understanding of music.

*Shawn Lane, although the foundation of the runs are thought out and NOT RANDOM, when he uses them in the context of music, just like all these other new age shredders, where he takes his little run IS RANDOM and has very little musical purpose as seen more drastically in his first clip and of that Marshall guys stupid-ass improv. which was horrible.

To everyone else: Sorry for all our long posts, they will cease now, because if DEAD doesnt agree with me on anything now, he will never, nor will i care to pursuade him further.

And if you read my answer, the basics of your explanation were there.

And what my point was before had nothing to do with knowlege of theory anyway, it was about being able to hear progesions in fast passages. And hwo do you know he isnt saying is his head "Ok now I want this progesion so I can give this sound."?

Haha, you saying you dont lie means nothing.

One final time, you never respond to any relevent points I make. You AGAIN go off track and start rambling off on Berklee Alumni and theory. You need to remember, I dont give a fuck about Berklee, or their Alumni, or how much theory you know. No matter how much weight you think your opinion holds, your still a dumbass.

__________________

Actually your the dumbass, your explanation had NOTHING to do with what i said about that theory. It wasnt even remotely close.

And i usually cover every dumbass thing you say, but your too much of a retard to notice it, and it goes right over your head.

And even if he is doing that with the chord progressions and his runs, its still childish and REAL good players do not do that.

I have tried to bring up all the points i thought stupid by you and that were important. So what points exactly DEAD did I forget, besides you being a bullshitter about thoery?

I could upload the booklet for it if ya'll want?

Metaljonus, if you could do that that'd be great, I'd appreciate it.

http://s57.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=...7X3TACXI7QST19G


Here ya go

somone should delete this thread.

__________________

He can play fast, some of this pentatonic licks were pretty cool, but I wouldn't rank him with Satch or Vai even. I learned a few things from watching this, his voice made me laugh at first, and some of this opened a different realm for soloing, like using 5's etc. I do think it is funny there are a couple times he messed up in the video. I just think Satch is a bit more melodic and inventive.

__________________

yeah i agree. hes got great skill and the song from that first concert clip was awsome. but the solos are too much. on the lessons, some of the solos he played slow sounded awsome. the "weird" note really made a difference in a good way. but then he played it was fast as he could and it sounded bad. when it was slower it was more melodic and every note had its place. when he played it fast sounded like when everyone first starts playing and they're joking around just picking and tapping fast random shit. i know its not random and he wants to play every note he is picking. thats why hes got the skil. but...

__________________

Crap, I never heard of this guy until I found this video and started browsing through pages about him, and found out he died in september 2003
Just thought I'd share the info to those who didn't know.

__________________

"Shawn Lane passed away on Friday, at the age of 40, after a struggle with lung disease."

I'm actually quite shocked that it took that long for anyone to search or comment actually, not that the thought even entered my head.

Erkk...The past few pages have been rippin' some corpse. Guilty pleasures

I had no idea who the guy was before I looked at this thread. My first thought when I heard the intro solo was, "Oh great, another shit shredder who thinks it's cool to play as fast as he can." I almost turned it off, but I'm glad I didn't because the lesson quality was pretty good. It introduced me to some new ideas and such...new ideas on using the pentatonic scale.

For anybody who mentioned the fact that this is an instructional video, I don't think anyone was ripping on his instruction, just his playing. The instruction was pretty good. Some of his songs were decent too. But when he started going full speed, a lot of quality was sacrificed.

Overall, as a player, I'd say he was good, but not great. On the other hand, the instructional video (which was the original point of this thread) is pretty damn good.

__________________