I'm currently in looking for a new half stack, and i've pretty much already decided on a Cab (Though suggestions are still very welcome), and I'm thinking about either a Mesa dual recto, or a ENGL powerball. The problem is while I am able to try out a Mesa Dual recto, I am unable to find anywhere to try out a ENGL powerball. (Or any ENGL amps) I've tried the Mesa, and liked it, but I've heard sooo much good stuff about ENGL that it's very tempting to get one. Since you guys know alot more about this stuff then I do, I'm looking for some advice. Defenitly need a amp thats good for death metal and other types of metal, but also has a good clean channel. I'm seriously stuck on what to get. (Or is it worth it to save up more and get a Savage 120? For the love of fucking while high on cheetos, HELP. (Thanks in advance)

find an engl somewhere, and play it. it's the only way to convince yourself.

I own a powerball and savage, both great amps, the powerball has a slightly more brutal feeling to it but the savage is better on the cleans and the leads are more fluid. I'de probably save up for a savage SE if I where you.

It kinda depends on where you're from, in Europe Mesa's are overpriced, in the US they're relatively good in price ratio. If I where in America, I might have considered a dual recto, I've tried them next to ENGL's and decided I wanted an ENGL. Haven't had other amps since.

I hate Duals ,theyre muddy as shit IMHO ,I rather have a Framus.This is just this old sods opinion

Diezel

EDIT: sry on topic: ... get an engl savage ... rocks ...

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Between the 2 I would choose a engl powerball or a savage. But I think you should look around more. I own a framus cobra and it kicks major ass.

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Engl

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dont get the savage 60, not cuz its a bad amp, the amp has serious balls, but the shared gain knobs, and shared eq make it a bit less

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I don't think that's a reason for someone NOT to get it, seriously, for the money it's one of the best sounding amps around...

there's hardly any boutique tops with great distortion going for 600 bucks used.. sure the savage 60 isn't a powerball but comparing the two next to each other made me wonder why I hardly used the savage live... I guess it's the shared eq and gain that render it useless if you play a lot of clean stuff too.. it was made with metal in mind, over-the-top gain, who needs the cleans anyways

But yeah, it's not too versatile but if you're looking for a smaller top with kickass distortion, I don't think I know a better one in it's size and wattage. not even the soldano sl60!

Like I said before, find a store and play the goddamn amps. Framus amps are definetly worth checking out but they have a different tone then the ENGL's, its just what you prefer, you might even like the Mesa better, if that's you're cup of tea. eh, tone.

I'll say a Mesa because I saw Krisiun live and the guitarist had the most clear, defined, grinding and ballcrushing sound I've ever heard live or on CD. I'm not really that impressed by Necrophagist's tone(except for the leads, but that's because Suicmez kicks ass mostly), and the samples I've are surely better than anything I've played, but I'm mesmerized by Krisiun playing through a Mesa with nothing but a beat up Ran with an EMG-81. Jungle Rot(the band before them) had an Engl Savage(probably) and they sucked(both musically and tone-wise).

I wouldn't buy something so expensive without trying it out first, so don't jump on the Engl bandwagon if you don't know what you're getting into. I believe one forumer regretted his purchase and sold it 'cause the Engl wasn't for him.

Try out everything you can, you're shelling out around $1000, right? Those not-well-known brand amps like Splawn make good shizzle, but don't buy something if you haven't played it unless you have a lot of cash to juggle around with. You might even like a Marshall.

As for cabs I guess it depends on how much output you need. For home playing/small gigs get like a Genz Benz G-Flex 2x12, or fore some beastlike shit I've heard that Vader cabs are incredible.

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i used to think my mesa was a little muddy till i put a tube screamer with the gain on 1 and the volume up in front of it absolutely no complaints here or mud

If you use the Diode rectifiers and have the mids at 4 the Dual Recto is a tight grinding mashine. Most of the "muddy" recto tones you're thinking of are with mids on 0 and tube rectifiers, the tube rectos are nice but aren't really for skull-crushing death metal. My Dual through the traditional size recto cab is very tight, turn it up enough and everything in the room rattles and your pants move at the slightest pick.

Now, it may not be what you're looking for, if you want a modern death metal sound like Necrophagist, Hate Eternal and the like than go for it. The DR is more of an old-school death metal amp. However, it does exactly what I need it to do, which is have a sparkling clean channel, a vintage gain channel for Slayer and tighter, thrashier stuff, and a crushing yet tight modern channel for the real chugga chugga stuff. I was looking at the ENGL's before I bought it, but their controls arn't really for me. There's alot of shared EQ's and stuff like "deep switch" and "mid sweep". Alot of that seems gimmikey to me, and shouldn't really be on a professional, serious amp like an ENGL. Although that has it's advantages too, ENGL seems to have the idea of taking a singular pre-amp and adding certain features to it, while Mesa has taken 3 preamps with individual gain, treble, etc controls and feeding them into one power amp. Some say you get better tone from the one amp with footswitchable controls than the more complex and tone-robbing circuits of the Mesa, I can't hear a difference and prefer the individual controls.

If you have enough money for an ENGL you may want to look into the Deizel and VHT stuff, Mesa and ENGL arn't really on the same level as far as amps, once you get past what you can find at Guitar Center you're pretty much off the deep end, in the pool of great tone

ehm, Engl's are allmost cheaper then Mesa's over here, Diezel, VHT, Soldano are all a WHOLE lot more expensive! though I do prefer Engl over Mesa, by far.

my Powerball doesn't have shared eq's for each channel, but if you take a cheaper series like the thunder/fireball, you do have that problem. I really like the extra functions the eq has, they're definetly not 'gimmikey' if you know how to use them. also, the 4 band eq has tons of range, I think the powerball/savage's eq system is far superior then most eq's. It does take a while to get used to though... to each his own, I guess.

well, which do you like more, balls or grind?

I've played a Dual Rec and I own a 530 preamp...not THE Engl of Engls but it still has the same voicing most ENGLs do.

the 530 has balls. Even when I purposely set it to be as trebley as possible (thrash metuhl lol) it still had balls. The gain doesnt get fizzy, ever.

The dual rec I played had grind. Fizzyness but in a good way, you know?

Let's put it this way:

ENGLs beat you senseless while Mesas put you through various mechanical implements of death (meat grinders, chainsaws, etc)

I find ENGL to be a bit more "organic" but some guys dont like that in their metal tone

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Can the 530 preamp pull off a half decent black metal tone? (Im thinking newer Mayhem here) my old band is getting back together.

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um, well I've never experimented with that, but next time i'm at band practice (thursday?) I'll try for you. Juding by what I've heard, it can, but nothing "Immortal"-frostbittvn-grvm-kvlt...it's not a "cold" amp by nature. So yeah, half-decent, but not like BLACK FUCKING METAL.


Yeah.

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hmm i hear ya, im definatly not after one of the completely shitty BM tones.

Ill try and find a sample for ya.......



EDIT ok here we go:

http://www.moonfrost.net/mayhem/download/symbols.zip



as you can here there is abit of fuzz on that tone, perhaps if i just crank the gain and treble i could acheive that tone

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Oh, I forgot, you have the 530, right?

how's it workin' for ya?

EDIT: I cant play the file but i'll try downloading the song

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no, i have not bought the 530 yet, but i will very soonish

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i'm not much of a balls guy... i like girls.

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I agree, grinding is where it's at

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Bogner Uberschall...that's what i would get, but it wont happen for years

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Okay, so after playing the Mesa Dual recto one more time, I have decided to go with ENGL. Now which do you think would be the better bet, the Powerball, or spend a bit more and go with the Savage 120? Also, I was thinking of getting a Mesa cab, but if there are any other recommendations of what you think would be a better cab, let me know. Thanks.

Definetly the ENGL Savage 120, it gives an impossible amount of distortion to choose from, Erik Rutan from Hate Eternal uses it, I think.

holy old thread...

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Engl! Fuck!

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I ordered my ENGL Savage 120 head a few days ago for 1775e. The waiting is already starting to piss me off, few days left.

i just wanted to say i love the tight agressive palm mute sound iget from my Engl 530

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necro, what power amp are you using? i cant decide whether i should wait untill i can get the mesa 2:90 or just go for a cheaper one.

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A peavey tube poweramp, they're like 200$ bucks. That's what I'll get for my first real rig.

Engl E530 + Peavey Poweramp + THD Hotplate + Genz Benz G-Flex 2x12. All in all about exactly 1000$.

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Dude, MadisonDivinity 100. Its Cheaper then Engl and Mesa. The sound my friend has using it blows my nut sack off everytime I play through it. You can get any tone out of it. Im getting one. I have been playing for over 20 years and nothing I have played through, owned or borrowed compares to this amp. And believe me I have experimented enough with everything.

www.madisonspeakers.com

im using an engl 920 2x50 poweramp with el34s

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i've played em. wasnt anything to write home about imo.

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Meh.