3000 Calories was what I was eating in training for one meal and I still came out as a stick. It really depends on your genetics and body type and what you do all day I think.

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An ideal bulking diet is around 5000 calories, but that can be very hard to obtain while living a normal lifestyle.

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Lol at my typo from previous post.

TruthDevoid, you still Havent answered my question; are you planning on competing?
Got any cool posing pics?

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Bent over rows or GTFO. SRSLY.

Req, are you trolling the gym rats or are you serious with any of this shit? I'm inclined to believe the former over the latter, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now.

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ah my bad bro, didn't even see you ask that. Nah, no competitions for me. At least not anywhere in my near future. I have way too many flaws in my body design yet. I have a naturally flat chest, and while I can build it up in mass, it builds flat. I've been destroying it with incline flies to try to add to the fullness, and it really has been helping, but it's got a ways to go yet. I'd need to add some bulk to my legs too. They're strong, cut, and match my body for size, but in competition things need to be oversized, especially legs. Maybe in a few years if everything pans out smooth and injury free, i'll think about it.

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It seems like the body that you have to have in order to compete just isn't worth it... its just kinda scary and disgusting. A great male figure should look absolutely NOTHING like that.

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they only look like that for competition bro. they don't look like that normally. They cut down and dehydrate for the show, that's it. they don't walk around like that

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You mean they lose muscle mass in between shows? Like what about the BIG guys...

They just look ridiculous to me. Can they even move around without hitting shit?

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LULZ @ synthol fail. For those curious, anything involving synthol is automatically synthol fail.

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No they don't lose muscle mass in between shows. If anything they lose muscle mass while cutting weight FOR the show. Like Truth said, they're only hitting those minimal bodyfats while a show is going on. In the offseason they are putting on mass (fat included, inadvertently but inevitably).

Remember that bodybuilding has a lot to do with GENETICS. These guys are all V-shaped and have tiny bones, which creates the illusion of them having a lot more muscle than they actually do.

So that dude doesn't look creepy to anybody??

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haha that dude is a BEAST! Those lats are intense! But yeah, I second everything Shred said.

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He looks like a mutated genetic experiment that escaped from a government lab. That guy has to have some serious body image issues. He's just like an anorexic girl except on the other end of the spectrum.

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Nah man, He has the genetic capabilites of a god and he's putting them to the max. It's pretty incredible really. I don't knock him at all for what he's doing. It's not about body issues, it's about being the best at your passion.

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I`m not sure about that. I`m thinking the same like Darko....Dyldo wutever.
Sometimes bodybuilding is used like any other sport to get along with the problems the dudes have with theirselves. I`m just asking myelf what he want with all those muscles? Cool nobody wants to have trouble with him, so what? Then he even hasn`t a chance to use those muscles in a man.like style.
Getting trained and big like a man = okay
Getting overtrained and look like a freakin muscleszombie = bööööööö

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Every time I read this thread I wonder if I've stumbled into the gaming thread by mistake, because it seems to be wall-to-wall Brucie Kibbutz quotes from GTA IV. Not that I'm criticising y'all, it's just amusing to a happily wobbly sedentary fatso like myself

In all seriousness, do you think a guy like the one in the pic Joe posted is able to function normally? Can he fold his arms? Can he wipe his own ass? If a bee landed on his left shoulder could he bat it away with his right hand? Does he have to queue up in the "big and tall" men's clothing stores alongside obese people in order to find shirts that actually fit over his neck? These are the questions!!

I agree that the dude looks freaky. I'm not even sure if that picture is real or not. However, these guys make a living pushing the boundaries of the human body. I like to use the fat chick analogy. I always see fat chicks on tv preaching about how proud they are of being overweight. Could they get skinny if they wanted to? Sure, but it would take way too much discipline and dedication, so they rationalize.

So now all of us sit here, assuming the role of a fat chick, saying "what a freak" and "i'd hate to look like that" after seeing a picture of Ronnie Coleman, Arnold Shwartzenegger, or any other bodybuilder. Could I look like that? Could you look like that? I highly doubt it, but have some respect for the blood, sweat, and tears they put in day after day in order to achieve such physiques. You don't ever have to WANT to look like that to admire what they've accomplished.

Personally, i'm more interested in powerlifting. It's the same concept, only instead of pushing the boundaries of size, they push the boundaries of strength.

Now that i've been back in the gym for a week and a half and "reactivated" my muscles, i remeasured my arms and peaked at 18". pretty fired up right now.

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I don't want to look like him, and the fact that I probably couldn't do it even if I wanted to doesn't really have any bearing on my position. If something is hard to do that doesn't make any more worthwhile, and it certainly doesn't afford it any special respect a priori, no more than learning to juggle 30 balls at once deserves some degree of default respect. When I look at a man like the one in that pic I don't see inspiring dedication and a willingness to see things through to the end, I see obsessiveness, fear, self-loathing, etc. Why do I see that? Because there's absolutely no real reason for anyone to want to be that size - it's not like we're still in the jungle fighting off lions - so it has to be pure vanity and blind competitiveness, which isn't something I respect. I personally don't give a shit if someone is that way, each to their own, but I'm not going to be convinced that this man represents something noble or selfless.

Incidentally, what does it mean when an athlete or body-builder is said to be "pushing the boundaries"? Which boundaries are being pushed, and to what end? How does it benefit the athlete and indeed the species as a whole? That's a genuine question, I'm not saying it to be bitchy, it's just that I've never quite grasped what that phrase means in this context.

Can anyone here honestly tell me that they want to look like this guy?

http://images.publicradio.org/conte...teroiduser2.jpg
http://www.tugagym.info/imagens/54.jpg
http://n2graphics.com/graphx/blog/G...ms_exploded.jpg

I think it's safe to say that boundaries are there for a reason haha.

And Paddy, Gregg Valentino wasn't a competitive bodybuilder. He was a man going for the world record of biggest arms. That's it. Huge difference.

Bodybuilding is a sport. A highly highly competitive sport where the training never stops. It's not like football or basketball that after practice you can just relax and maintain a proper diet. This is constant dedication to diet and lifestyle 24/7 that takes more discipline than most people can ever comprehend. What they do cannot be accomplished by the average man, no matter how much steroids you take or how much you train. Your theory is flawed, as Shred said. There's a lot of people out there who wonder why people want to play guitar as fast as possible, while shredding is an incredible talent, most won't appreciate it, but does that mean you should stop increasing your playing speed because it's not practical in the real world? or because the majority can't get into it? These guys don't do this stuff for the average person out there, they do it for themselves. To be the best at the sport. And that's what it's all about.

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ps.. traps and shoulders! http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?p...e2e&id=20803725

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I just think of it as man pushing himself as far as he can go. It's relatively pointless, serves no functional value, and is (in the opinion of most) aesthetically hideous, but there also isn't anything wrong with it. I don't see any hidden, inner, self-image problem; just pushing oneself as far as one can go. It isn't any different than wanting to be the best wide receiver, the best welterweight mixed-martial artist (WAR GSP), the best violinist, or the best novelist. They found something they could do and pushed themselves as far as they could go.

That being said, I always found most competitive bodybuilding to be extremely gay. I always lifted weights to get stronger, not to look uglier. Neither one is necessarily better than the other, but I gravitate toward strength over aesthetics.

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i like to think I don't look uglier from it haha. and the response i get from women proves that i definitely have not lol

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I never said that it's useless to be that size "because it serves no practical purpose", I was making the point that because there's no real need for it there's no explanation for it other than vanity which isn't deserving of respect regardless of how difficult it is. In fact, the idea of practicality was brought up by you when you said that these guys "push the boundaries". That implies there's something to be gained from more and more extreme weight-lifting.

As I said, I don't have a problem with any of that, but I won't accept that the people who go to these extremes deserve respect because it's "hard" or because I can't do it myself. MMA fighters are just as vane - what difference does it really make if one guy can defeat another in a fight? It's entertaining to watch, but so is South Park.

Playing guitar paves the way to writing music, which is art. Whether art does or doesn't serve a practical function is another debate, but you honestly can't tell me that art in general and music in particular hasn't had a profound effect on our species and is of a much higher value than muscles. Seeing someone with massive muscles and hearing a piece of music, regardless of how credible the music is, is probably the most severe case of apples and oranges I can imagine.

Again, I don't care about people's motives for extreme body-building, but let's not dress it up as something it's not!

I didn't say Valentino was lifting competitively, I was just saying that an innate competitive streak is what drives these guys. A need to be physically superior, etc.

I sometimes like to shred because it's fun, but it has no real place in anything I write, and I hate listening to other people do it, and I'm the first to admit that it's largely hollow bollocks and has no artistic merit whatsoever. This is why it's called fretboard wanking - it's pointless, artless and best kept in the privacy of your bedroom. As I said above in my reply to SIND, I wasn't really talking about the practicability of this stuff, I was saying that the lack of practicality means that the only remaining motives have to be narcissistic in nature. If that's true, does it deserve respect even if it's very difficult to do?

The desire to be the best is surely indicative of a self-image issue just as much as wanting to look massive is. To me it's the same impulse, just manifested differently.

I admit that I'm not exactly the best advertisement for NOT being competitive - I'm jobless, overweight, single and living with my parents haha.

Observational bias, and there are three basic things wrong with it;

1. You don't look like a competitive bodybuilder. I mean no offense when I say that, either. You look like a guy who spends a lot of time in the gym. You don't look like a guy who is fanatically obsessed with overdeveloping every single one of his visible muscles.

2. Women look at you differently based on how you feel more than how you look. If you feel very good about yourself, you'll get a few more looks. You'll also get more positive reactions from women when you do talk to them.

3. Repeated studies have shown that women are more strongly attracted to average, athletically built men (i.e. swimmers, soccer players, mixed-martial artists) than bulky, muscularly overdeveloped types (i.e. bodybuilders, pro-wrestlers, powerlifters).

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haha i don't claim to look like a competitive bodybuilder, so i take no offense at all. i was just giving you a hard time. I know you love a good HARD time.

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What makes music any more or less artistic than the martial arts? What makes your art any more valid than theirs? Bodybuilding can be put forth as an art, too. It doesn't have the history or importance of music or the martial arts, for sure, but that doesn't make it any less valid as an art.

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Sorry, bro, science got in my brain and I got super serious.

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you're in need of a good hard time it seems

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I think the definition of the the word art is important here. Art can simply mean something which requires high degrees of proficiency, discipline or whatever. I think body-building and martial arts fall into that category, alongside carpentry and juggling. The other meaning of the word is something more conceptual and lofty; a means of expressing something or of recreating an experience of some sort using abstract media, such as music, painting, etc. You could say that the act of learning and mastering the guitar falls into the first category, whilst the music you create with it thereafter falls into the second. Regardless of the semantics of it I don't think you can really hold something like MMA up beside a symphony or a film. I don't mean that in a snobbish way, like "Beethoven is obviously better than Kimbo Slice", they just don't seem to be comparable by virtue of the fact that they're motivated by different impulses and are seeking different ends.

And where the fuck is MY offer of a hard time, Waylon? Chubby Irishmen needs lovin' just as much as the next lard-ass.

This is a very tricky subject, but I'm with Paddy. I could go on about it, but Paddy's last post says enough.

A kick to the face can hit you just as hard as a great poem/book/song can. Both can leave a mark, change you forever, and cause you to learn something new (although you can't see yourself in a kick to the face... unless it hits you hard enough to induce an out-of-body experience). So really, what's the difference? I think its the fact that, although both may take just enough time to construct, that does not mean they are the same. One has been refined over hours and hours of striking a bag while another has been refined from years and years of attempting to adequately express the human condition.


Not necessarily. The drive to be the very best is also a tough subject to tackle. It can inherently carry with it the motive to be noticed, to be recognized, and to be respected. These can possibly be tied to an ego, or self-esteem, that needs recognition. If we were all 100% content, satisfied, enlightened metal monks, would we give a shit about any of that? I don't think so. I think we would just strive to reach our personal best and along that path never once stop to glance at another. But I don't think that this means competitiveness means any of those things. Competitions can be just plain fun, exciting, and a learning/boding experience, at least that is what it is suppose to be. Our insecurities can easily usurp this seemingly innocent scenario as a chance to fulfill one's empty holes. One could only really tell if one knew another's true motives.

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Sorry paddy, but you get enough hard time on a regular basis. Today is the black man's turn.

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More than you know. I got cut off three weeks ago and it doesn't look like I have any new prospects on the horizon. Looks like I might be going on a fast until the Fall semester starts. God damn it.


First of all, Beethoven is thousands of times better than Kimbo Slice. Top-tier musician vs. sub-standard, but highly publicized mixed martial artist. EDIT: Just wanted to emphasize that I wasn't trying to be snarky with this point, just bring light to the fact that a Kimbo/Beethoven comparison is roughly equal to a Mauricio Rua/local high school garage band comparison.

Personally, and perhaps this is subjective (but isn't any art?), there is something intrinsically artistic about any sport, whether I like the sport or not. Sport represents, to me, and abstract representation of the human need to satiate primitive instincts to hunt live animals and war against each other. Maybe it's less poetic than other forms of art, but in my opinion, no less abstract and, when done right, no less enjoyable.

I never talk about MMA, but I love it. To me, it represents a struggle between nations, a struggle between styles, and struggle between wills. It's a clash of hundreds of years worth of independently refined combat systems, and the fruition of an abstract Bruce Lee dream. Lee once said, and I'm paraphrasing because I don't remember the actual quote, that the ultimate fighter would kick too hard for a boxer to beat him, throw too well for a karateka to beat him, and punch too hard for a judoka to beat him. He also stated something along the lines of each martial art style, over the course of it's evolution, had become too one-dimensional and, therefore, flawed. Of course, as recently as a hundred years ago, most martial art systems taught strikes, throws, joint locks, and chokes. Anyone who respects Bruce Lee's philosophies and works should be able to see something beautiful about MMA and the way, through MMA, the martial arts have come full circle.

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Sorry, I couldn't hear what you were saying over the deafening din of my awesomeness.

Haaaahaha nah, I agree with you that competition can be fun and such. I mean, I play video games quite a lot, and I like playing multiplayer with my brothers, and when I was younger I liked playing football with other kids from my street etc. However, there's a big difference between that and the mentality of a guy who has to buy bigger TV than you, or someone who won't be happy or contented until they weigh 900lbs and can arm curl a Mini. Like most things in life there's a spectrum, and there are extremes at either end of it - when it comes to besting other people I think it's pretty healthy to be somewhere between the low end and the middle. That is, it's progressive and enjoyable to have some desire to succeed in whatever you're doing, otherwise you'll just end up like...well, me haha. I'm still awesome, though.

I would never think that I see where you're coming from (thanks to my patented Black-o-Scope™). I guess judging artistic merit is a matter of degree; the expressive capabilities of sport can only really take you so far, it's almost one dimensional in that it can only really express the things you mentioned, whereas something like music is potentially limitless in how varied and far-reaching it can be. The difference is such that I don't think they should be compared, not because one is "better" than the other but because the artistic content of a sporting event barely shows up on the radar, and is something of an afterthought. In other words, I would be surprised if many athletes think of what they're doing in artistic terms. Bruce "Paddy McMullan" Lee had some shit to say, though, but I'm not sure how much of his philosophies could be seen threaded through his roundhouse kicks; it's what he said when he wasn't beating up Chuck Norris that sounded like art to me.

Bodybuilding starts with healthy eating and exercising regularly. You keep striving for results because that's the point. I understand what you mean that these guys take it to the extreme but why would a person keep training in order to stay the exact same size and strength? They progressively get bigger and bigger because it's the next step. Just like any other sport why would you quit trying to better yourself?

If you were seven feet tall and loved basketball why wouldn't you try and get into the NBA? The best bodybuilders in the world were born with a genetic gift as well. Why fault them for taking advantage of it?

I'm not faulting them man, I just don't buy into the idea that they deserve some special respect for what they do and the pain they go through to achieve their aims, no more than I respect Asian women who break their feet, bind them into a ball, lock it all together in a wooden clamp and basically cripple themselves for life just so that they can look the way they want or the way their men want. I'm not sure if that analogy works, but you get my drift

Just to be clear - the people I've been talking about in this thread are the extremists with exploding biceps and the like. You guys look great (from the pics I've seen, anyway) and I'm not just saying that to score points with y'all haha, it's a purely shallow/cosmetic judgement on my part. I don't think the look would suit me, but it works for some people. However, I imagine if someone like Chris or Waylon was to get much bigger than they are now it would take something away from their "look". But that's just my personal opinion.

Incidentally, I used to go to school with this guy:

https://secure.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=2507452162

In school he was one of the thinnest, most docile and most introverted people I'd ever known, even more so than me. I don't even recognise him now, not even his face. An incredibly nice bloke, although I haven't seen him in 10 years haha. Read his personal blurb - he's quite candid about why he got himself into that shape.

Dude looks good. I'd like to see what he looks like with normal water weight and carbed up. He's not "disgustingly big" either, he just looks "freakish" because of the dehydration and carb cutting.

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Oooh, this thread finally has some substance to it!


There have been good points made, and not some good points. The people who oppose bodybuilding must realize we all do it for different reasons. Some people want to lose fat so they can fit into their clothes better; some people want tone their muscles while not looking big and bulky. Others want to gain strength to assist in their daily lives(police, army, tradespeople), others want to aspire to Mr. Olympia. Personally, I just want to look and feel better, as well as push and exhaust my body. Everyone is different and everyone has different goals when is comes to working out.

I've been working out for seven years, six of which being quite consistent. I love it and will never stop. I enjoy the whole lifestyle. The healthy foods, the cheat meals, the supplements, the discipline. Pushing your body to its limit day after day is very satisfying. Results of your ever changing physique is gratifying and gives you the drive to push even harder. Knowing that I started curling 15lbs, and now I'm curling 45-50lbs now makes me happy. I always feel great after I worked out, that I've accomplished something that day.


At first glace, the average person would think the bodybuilder is vein and self-centered. That is simply not the case with the large majority of them. Yes, we may look in the mirror, and flex from time to time, but that is to show our self what we have accomplished and what we can improve on. Most bodybuilders do this for themselves and no one else. When I'm at the gym, I rarely even look at other people. I'm there for myself and to get shit done.

The guys have said it before me: it's like any other sport or hobby. To the hardcore lifters here, it is our lifestyle and it is to be respected as much as any other talent, not waved off as some selfish activity.

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See, this is where my ignorance shows haha: do body-builders dehydrate themselves at certain points during their training?

I don't oppose body-building at all man, I honestly don't have any issues with it or the lifestyle, and all of the reasons for doing it you gave are perfectly valid. I just have an automatic knee-jerk reaction to hearing people say it should be respected as some noble or inspiring activity. You used the word "hobby", and if that's what you call it then there's nothing more that needs said, because you clearly don't have any convoluted or pretentious ideas about your chosen path And, if I'm honest, I doubt my Officer BB wanks would be half as good if you didn't have biceps bigger than my head.

They dehydrate themselves in the day or two leading up to a show in order to shed the water weight. They don't walk around every day looking how they do in the pictures.

In an unrelated note, check out Andy Bolton's world record deadlift.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5groVHlMkRE

Ahhh, I getcha. Cheers for clearing that up.

Fuck me, he looked like he could probably lift another few hundreds pounds on top of that.

I could have told you that.

I think some of you guys aren't even hobbyists when you work out even when it's not competitive. It's more like a sculpting science with a formula, trials and errors.

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Agreed 100%.


Yeah. The dehydration helps them shed water weight, which helps in two separate ways; 1. it helps them make weight if there are any weight categories involved, and 2. the lack of water weight makes muscles (and veins) much more well defined. The lack of carbs forces their body to go on a fat cutting cycle; most bodybuilders walk around considerably less well defined than they look right before and during competition. Part of it is body fat, part of it is water weight. Hence; dehydration & carb fasting.

For (mostly) the same reasons, many combat athletes (wrestlers, boxers, mixed martial artists, etc.) also go on dehydration and carb cutting cycles. In their case, it's solely to allow them to make weight and has nothing to do with how they look. The average MMArtist who fights at 185 walks around between fights at well over 200 pounds (usually in the 210 range). This excludes the Japanese, most of whom only have to cut between 8-14 pounds to make weight for fights, if at all.

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Yeah, "oppose" may not have been the best word. I guess "uninformed" may have been better, as nicely as possible. I think it should be respected because it requires a lot of hard work, discipline and dedication to have this sort lifestyle, and even more so for competitor bodybuilders/powerlifters. These people train like Olympians. It is a hobby to most people, but it very much of a way of life to many others, including myself.

Anyways, put down the Dwarf Jugs magazine and get your lazy ass to the gym.

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Heck, dwarf jugs is what he lifts at the gym!

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It turns out that Dwarf Jugs isn't the magazine I thought it was. It's just pictures of fully-grown, flat-chested women. What a swiz.

Good workout for all y'all. http://www.cracked.com/blog/workout...ryone-else-out/

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hahaha thank you for that LB.

"No, don't try moving to the other side because - See? Yep, he's right there, too."

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arm...

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/...-attachment.jpg

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Good lord! It looks like you have hemorrhoids on your arm.

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Thank you. Diggin the farmers tan? haha

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Yeah, I have half tanned ankles so it's about the same.

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You guys bring the lulz.


I'm so anxious to run my first PH cycle. I should be getting my Nolvadex in the mail next week..it's for my pet donkey of course, the poor thing has breast cancer.

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PH....? = Pussy Hair?

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Yes, 5g of Pussy Hair every day. 30 min prior to meals.

No, prohormones. There are still a few legal in US, but they are all banned in Canada..silly Canada.

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Why do you need this? As far as I know prohormons are some kind of a substance which your body can form into any hormon that is used.
A legal steroid?

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more or less, yeah, basically it's converted into a steroid once in breaks down in your liver.

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There are few things a person needs in this world.

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yeah, bjorn, what kind of mindset is that?

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Gomli is becoming minimalist, shit, he doesn't even need his foreskin. I guess that is still fairly low on the chain of necessity compared to the internet. Once his transition is complete, we will never know.

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I haven't been able to properly exercise in the last two weeks. Ended up with 126 hours for the bi-weekly period. The district manager is coming down to interview me for the assistant manager position on Monday.

Btw, penisbutter.

Threw up the 75's on incline flies today for about 8 reps. That's how you be a fuckin beast!

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Hahaha... that's how they busted Manny Ramirez last year. Fuck Manny Ramirez.

What kind of stack are you working with, anyway?

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Lean bulk/recomp.

Preload Liv 52/Hawthorn Berry two weeks prior to cycle.

Hdrol 50/75/75/75/75/75
Liv 52
Hawthorn Berry
Taurine(if need be)

PCT - Pharm grade Nolva 20/20/10/10
Liv 52
Hawthorn Berry
Creatine Mono
Biotivia Bioforge(natural test booster)


This will be my first PH cycle, and I've researched the fuck out of it. My next one I'll probably just buy CEL Cycle Assist instead of the Liv 52/HB, or cheaper Liv 52 tabs than I bought.

Since PH's are illegal in Canada, my pet cheetah will be jacked after the cycle.

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nolva should be 40/40/20/20

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Not for hdrol. 20/20/10/10 is what I've read literally hundreds of times.

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I hate when that happens. Damn menopause.

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If anyone was going to suffer from sympathetic PMS it'd be Req.

That's such a small dose. Maybe h-drol doesn't have much of a natural shutoff, but still, higher doses of nolva won't hurt you. you can take the stuff off cycle to boost natural T levels if you wanted. I'd just rather be safe for a good recovery than to risk dosing too low. Your call though.

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I know. Hdrol also doesn't aromatize. It converts to turinabol apparently. Trust me, that's the 'recommended' dose a million times over. Some dumbasses take OTC PCT though, such as reversitol..

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might not aromatize, but i'm sure it causes HTPA shutdown, which the nolva will reverse. Like i said, my theory is better safe than sorry. more nolva won't hurt, only ensure you keep gains and it will regular your natural T.


back pic..
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/...void/back2e.jpg

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It will shut you down, but I'm just going to go by what I've read several times over. With harsher ph's such as superdrol, the PCT is that what you mentioned. I appreciate your insight regardless.

Your back is looking big. I'll have to take a few pics of before and after my little cycle and show you punks. lol.

edit - This is from the other week..tattoo looks shrunk from how I was flexing. lol.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l...th/DSCN0138.jpg

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Just remember, guys, you're doing that for yourselves. Most girls like a little cuddly matter on their guys according to me and a survey result on the news this morning. In fact, they said skinny model types and muscle bound guys were okay for commercial purposes, but for relationships a little meat was good on either. And muscle on men doesn't sell a product any better than a regular guy.
I think you both look fine, but I know you're into what you're doing, too.

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Screw what girls want, I wanna make the guys blush!

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I agree with LB!!!! Muscle is fine but veiny, sculpted, rock hard bodies does not equal sexy.

I've been trying to come up with a cock-based pun for about 10 minutes and I can't do it, despite the seemingly limitless possibilities provided by the material at hand. I think I'm all cocked out. But if that's true then what am I still doing here? Why haven't I leaped? ZIGGY!

I dunno where the line is drawn between sexy muscular and overly muscular, but i haven't crossed it yet, cause girls always compliment me. I guess know I've gotten good results when I completely turn them off by it haha

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Nobody wants to hear about that.

Truth, some of those guys that are so muscled up they walk like they have a corn cob up their butts and look like they're too self absorbed to be attentive to a female are kinda turn offs. Yeah, they might look okay to that particular group that's into judging them, but I don't see an average person seeing them as much more than a freak show of muscles. Especially when they start looking so unnatural. Does that make sense?

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You ladies have to remember something about striving to achieve your greatest. Someone who plays basketball doesn't say, "I wanna be good, but I don't wanna be Michael Jordan good." Someone who plays golf doesn't say "I wanna be good at golf..but I really don't wanna be as great as Tiger Woods." This is why many of us enjoy getting bigger and bigger, because it is progression of the sport.

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That does make sense putting it in that context. I still like cuddly the best.

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No offense but that is the worst analogy I've ever heard. Being outstanding at a sport that requires actual skill is different from being outstanding at something that requires you to actually alter your body. There is such a thing as taking it too far.

But don't ball players and tennis pros have to alter their bodies to do what they do? They just don't usually take it to the extremes that some body builders do.

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If you don't think professional bodybuilding requires any skill, you are an idiot. To be a professional bodybuilder it requires great skill, discipline and dedication. Even for an amateur like myself any others here, we take our diet/training/lifestyles quite seriously. You should see the diets professionals have, off season and cutting up for a competition. Everything they eat must be perfect. You should see the countless hours they spend in the gym, the countless hours doing cardio.

Anyways, you bring nothing to this thread other than an opinion that lacks knowledge on the subject. "OMG THOSE GUYZ R GROSS ID MUCH RATHER FLABBY MTM". Please leave this thread.

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How much skill does it require to repeatedly lift something heavy or eat certain things at certain times? I'm not saying it's not difficult, I'm sure it is, but it's not something you need to spend years perfecting/mastering before you can start doing it effectively, provided you have the determination to go through with it. I could walk into a gym and start working out right now using a regime laid out by a fitness expert, but I couldn't just start playing pro tennis on a whim.

The skill is the dedication and mental prowess it takes to become huge and defined. If you don't think current Mr. Olympia Jay Cutler has any skill to train his body to look like this...then you are fucked.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_g93bcGvgW...LX-Lund-001.jpg

Most people do not posses this skill, that's why you see the fatties new to the gym after Christmas, and you never see them again a few weeks later. And It does take years of training to have perfect form while completing exercises.

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I conceded that body-building is difficult and requires determination, but that's not the same as skill. Maybe we're just arguing semantics at this stage...

Also..if I keep playing basketball everyday, will I be Lebron James? If I have Federer's coach, I will be the next Roger Federer? The fact of the matter is, if you ate and trained the exact same, say as Jay Cutler, no, odds are you wouldn't look like him. It's genetics, as is Michael Phelphs' award winning figure. Your point doesn't make sense.

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Body building takes determination, and roidz, but the only skill involved really is knowing the right lifting techniques, right diet, etc. It does depend a lot on genetics, I could never be on the same level as Truth or BB, but I have a different view of what fitness is anyway.

Powerlifting on the other hand takes massive amounts of skill. This is what you see on the olympics, all these dudes throwing 400+ lbs over their heads. Wayyyy different than body building, requires a lot more coordination.

Maybe everyone here is defining "skill" differently...

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So if you happen to have the correct genetics that's considered a skill?

whooaaaa did not mean to start WW3 here. echoing what the previous posters have said bodybuilding is a more of a sport of mind over matter. i did not mean to say that it takes zero skill and that other sports require no physical discipline, just that bodybuilding requires far less of the skill part and far more of the staying in shape part than most other sports.

contrary to what you think about me having no knowledge of the wonderful amazing skill intensive arcane art of awesome bodybuilding, i have a father who's been into bodybuilding since i was about 8 so i do have a good idea of what the process entails. i've seen the countless books on techniques, exercises, the gorging to model diet stages, the huge things of powders and shake mixes that do this and that. to me it seems like more of a science than anything else, the rest is just actually doing it.

anyway, didn't mean to offend was merely pointing out a flaw in your argument.

Haha!

Don't worry, its probably just the roids as you were being just as civil as everyone else.

Flabby FTW!

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I'm not even getting involved in this convo haha. It's pretty obvious where I stand on it.

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No, I meant genetics plays apart in the ability of an athlete. In my opinion, a pro bodybuilder is as skilled as any 'sport' athlete on the same level. A tennis player plays tennis and weight trains to get better at tennis, just as a pro bodybuilder eats, does roids, practices posing and weight trains to get better at bodybuilding.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJFmNCht1X8

And again, to say that this man has no skill in what he does is fucking retarded.


Also, I've never done roids.

Anyways, fuck ya'll except Black Chris, FBS, Truth, Drawn...and Tranz because he used to bench press his wheel chair.

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Hey man, I'm forced to do dead lifts every time I have to aim at the toilet, so I know what I'm talking about. And I didn't mean steroids, I meant your hemorrhoids.

Now this is more like the MT I know and love! Everyone yelling at each other. I'm getting a nostalgia boner.

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lawlz. I have no problem with steroids, when done correctly. Besides, how else am I'm going to look like my childhood idol..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2OR...feature=related


lol wut?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUrNrB8jl84

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I'd still fuck your brains out, BB.

fuck all you hoes, im the biggest mother fucker here.

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It's true..he has fucked a lot of mothers.

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The quantity of mothers fucked has nothing to do with being the biggest mother fucker. He's probably the biggest mother fucker.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...iw=1008&bih=599

That's called Olympic Weightlifting. Powerlifting is a different animal entirely. It's a competition of the 3 big lifts: Squat, Bench Press, and Deadlift. There is quite a bit of form to learn but not nearly as much as Olympic lifting. It's more about raw strength. I currently train as a powerlifter.