Well then, if you can afford em, supplements would probably be your best bet for the protein that you're not taking in. If you don't like chocolate, french vanilla, or strawberry either, you might as well just give up, heh.

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You can always get protein bars too but they probably have a shit load of calories.

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fish, chicken, cashewnuts, stuff like that. It's almost impossible to loose fat en build a lot of muscle at the same moment. (unless your fatpercentage is really high) When you eat under your daily cal.need you will lose weight and when you eat above your daily cal.need you will gain weight.


[excuse me for my poor language....I'm not used to talk about this subject in English...]

Generally about 110-150. The price is generally the hardest thing about them, and your stomach has to get used to them.
Muscletech bars are pretty tasty and have lots of shit in them, but they'll run about 3 bucks each. Gets up there after a while. Especially if you're shooting for a couple hundred grams a day like I usually do.

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bodybuilding.com also has a recipe section if you're interested in that. And have some peanutbutter and a Granny Smith apple for a snack since I know you like fruit. Granny Smith's have something in them that's very good for your lungs and might help with your air intake in the long run. If you want crunchy peanutbutter toss some unsalted sunflower seeds in it.

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Haha Granny Smiths.

Yeah those protein bars could be costly. I was looking at prices on bodybuilding.com and they didnt seem too too bad.

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im glad im a drummer, playing is a workout, double pedal is kicking my ass now, blast beats gas the arms out

i didnt know that about the bike riding, i do alot of hills too on purpose, i think if you do hills it does make a difference beyond tone, also the bike riding works everything out. arms,legs, your chest,your back.

do those protein powder drinks work that well?

and is regular sleep very important?

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Protein shakes work really well. They speed up the muscle building process alot. And at least 8 hours of sleep is needed to recover from lifting.

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I agree. Adequate sleep and protein shakes can be very beneficial. Sleep over anything. If you're exhausted, don't work out, because best case scenerio you lift about half your norm and go home pissed off and feeling like a pussy. Worst case, you drop a few hundred pounds of weights on your head and get a nice new IVANKO brand before your funeral.

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In best case scenario its best not to be exhausted , But belief it or not some of the best workouts you get is when your feeling crappy , your body struggles to lift the weight and even though you generally lift alot less because you have to work harder than normal you get alot out of the work out.
I wouldnt recommend you do it on a steady basis or when you really got nothing left or sick , but if you just tired but still able to work out .
They have energy boosters that are good , GNC sells one UP YOUR GAS , I take before my workouts , doesnt wire you out and give you that speeding feeling , it works very well.

I've come to the conclusion that I should never work out more than 1 day in a row.
When I'm lifting the second day, all I'm doing for like an hour is stretching my muscles without any good increase. Then I'd have to be there a lot longer to get back in shape and use more weight. I'd then be in incredible pain later that night and upcoming week.

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You should skip at least a day between what you're doing to give them recovery time. And recognize between real pain and just DOM's. Don't ask me what that stands for cuz I can't remember but it's that "hurts so good" feeling where you know you've worked your muscles well, but you know the pain isn't from serious injury. Does that make sense?
If nothing else, the GNC store sends a monthly magazine called Physical if you sign up for the membership card. They aren't much and you can get some good deals there. There's some good articles about teen body building in them, too. A lot of nutrition stuff, too.

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Just make sure you're alternating body parts that you're working. I usually lift 4 or 5 times a week, and that works about the best for me. Depending on how heavy you go, how long you've lifted, and what body part it is, some things need lots of rest. Your lower back for example, takes the longest to recuperate, whereas your biceps recupe the fastest. Beginners generally go for twice a week with lifting for each body part, but once you get further along, once a week is normally better, except that I still hit calves and forearms twice a week, just because mine are kinda lacking, and they can take that much work.

You'll learn your body and it's limits as you progress. Many things will become quite easy and natural the more you do it, so just be persistent, but not foolish, and know the difference between a simple sore muscle from working it and a pain that might lead to injury. Sometimes it's hard to differentiate, so I'll just tell you what I do, fail conservatively. That's Navy jargon for do things the safer way.

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i do a little bit everyday, i try to ride everyday but the weather is changing now, its been raining the last 2 days. i play music close to everyday too

That's not too bad, but if you're working out real hard, then you should give yourself a couple days of rest during the week, it will actually aid growth and hinder overtraining. But that all depends on the intensity of your workouts...I'd recommend it regardless, though.

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thanks wally and metal mom. granny smith apples are actually different from others? ive been eating those for about a week. its new york and its fall, so ill be eating an apple a day ( to keep the docotr away...)


i dont want to turn to protein bars/shakes ,especially because at this point in my exercising im gearing towards losing weight. im ok with my muscles as they are now...and continue to make small improvements. ill start thinking about protein intake later on, when im a little lighter. as for my workout today.. did an extra 8 minutes. went about 12.5 miles on the bike, 500 calories square, 56 minutes all told

thanks again for everyone whos replying in this thread and keeping it a live, its great for all of us

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i just ate a protien bar called luna glow, man it was hiddeous,part tylenol, part sand castle, ewww

hey sorry for asking this, anyone know the name of the machine that you use for cardio that imitates running motion? not sure how to explain what it looks like, but theres 2 platforms for your feet and then two handle bars and you pull the handle bars and move your feet in a running sort of motion. any idea?

Cardio glide? Or an elliptical trainer? walpurgis said those are easier on the knees than a treadmill and good if you're a little on the heavy side. I'm not sure if that's what you're thinking of or not.

You're welcome, Tranny. Yeah, the Granny Smith's are supposed to be a little different. That's one type of apple tree I don't have here, too. I should get one.

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The key of a successful work out program is Simple
Keep it simple and logical .
ideally you should hit each muscle group example chest , back etc. Once
A sample routine or split as its called is
Mon chest
tues Back
wed legs
thurs shoulders
fri arms
remember when you do chest and shoulders you also do your triceps
when you do back your doing biceps as well.
diet is just as important as the work out

also remember do the compound exercises first such as bench press before your shaping exercises such as flys . keep the weights heavy to moderate stay in the 10-6 rep range .

eliptical
metal mom- you grow your own apples? how long did they take to start producing apples?

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oh yes thats it!! do elipticals work better than treadmills or vice versa?

stationary bike and stair climber type machines are far better than tread mills

I'd think elliptical would, but that's an uneducated guess. I think since he said something about it being easier on the knees and seeing all the trouble my mom has now with her knees it makes me favor the elliptical for anything strenuous. She had one knee replacement at about 70 and she should get the other one done now because it doesn't want to bend and it's bone on bone. She was never a runner that I know of. You could probably go to a gym or even someplace that sells them and see what's comfortable to you, too.

My dad planted some miniature fruit trees behind the barn here probably about 15 or 20 years ago, but it only takes them a few years to start producing. There's a golden delicious and 2 cortlands, a plum, 2 peach, and a nectarine. The cortlands did the best this year, but they're always spotty. I really should spray them in the spring next year. I'd have apples all winter if I did. The trees aren't as big as regular fruit trees, but they're still pretty good sized. Denny hates mowing around them .

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hmm thats true about it being easier on the knees and stuff. from personal experience when i get my ass on the treadmill for 20 minutes i end up with my ankles blown out, but on the eliptical i'm fine

so which machine would be most efficient for burning the fat? bike, eliptical, stairmaster or treadmill? or anything else besides these machines

bike or any type of stair climber or cross country sking , the tredmill is the least efficent

kev i wouldnt take fox guitar's advice, he doesnt know his his head from his ass. id wait for someone like wally or john holland to reply, i think running is a good option for weightloss as long as you actually run...if youre too fat ride a bike or something. also, dont run on pavement if you can avoid it. its harder on your knees and on a treadmill that belt keeps moving even if you get tired, whereas running outside youre more apt to slow down

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Yeah listen to tranny dickwad
lets see I weigh 250 I benched over 405 do 315 for reps been lifting for way over 10 years , so listen to scrawny ass pencil neck tranny fag

so maybe you can give advice about lifting, but i dont see you talking about how youve lost 15 pounds lately? or how youve trained on treadmills and directly compared that to the training on eliptical trainers? granted, youll reply to this talking about how youve lost 100 pounds of fat and then gained back 400 pounds of muscle and then conquered some small 3rd world countries, and probably call me some kind of "offensive" name in the process. however, my advice to kev remains, wait for someone who knows what the the hell theyre talking about to come along

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well dorkasaurus
i went from 165 to 250 ok needle nose, you were the insulting gnome so dont start your holier than thou bulldinky . i dont respond to you first you write shit about me, So skinny , he can take my advice or not. you can read alot of books on weight lifting. Ive worked out in gyms all across the world but you know better mr. bird legs.

Do you have to ruin every fucking thread you post in! Come on.

I weighed in today at 154. Still gaining muscle which is good. Had another awesome work out today.

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im very proud of ya

I take that as a sarcastic comment. If so, this thread is to talk about working out and progress doing so. Not to make fun of anyone, are say stupid shit. Please don't fuck up one of the few good threads we have left. If your not going to say anything helpfull or talk on topic, just don't post in here. We would all appreciate it.

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Well my retarded friend go back a few posts when your girl friend flamed me when I was giving advice on working out ok girlie

ok, in this thread, since this thread is so fucking great except for fox, please, everybody ignore him and pretend he doesnt post. i know its hard, its gonna drive me nuts, but leave the soul-completingly fun fox guitar bashing to the RTT becasue this thread is a very valuable asset and shouldnt be wasted

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then faggy you should not have flamed me when I wasnt talking to you , So act holier than thou after you start the crap , you are putrid . And your weak

lets see this looks like you starting shit , huh there fanny

Now on other hand this is mine

Ok, it doesnt matter who started it, if your right your right. Good. Let the arguements be forgoten.... For my reps, i usually start at something i can only lift 6 times, for 3 sets. Then once i can do that weight 12 times, i move up in weight untill i can only lift it 6 times and so on. What do you guys do?

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ive just started to follow that policy...like right now im curling 25s, 3 sets of 7-8 reps. im gonna get it up to 10 or 12 reps with those untill i jump to 30 pounds for curls. the problem with the gym i go to (and also the gym that innards decay goes to) is that the weights jump from 20 to 25 to 30. i suppose they dont usually make 27.5 dumbellls but itd be nice if they did. another solution is to use those 1 or 2 pound wrist bands they have for the power walkers and throw those on your wrists if you want to train with mid weight

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Any system that works for you is a good system , the key is to keep it fresh and change it up within reason to keep the muscles guessing.Thats dont mean go willy nilly you can switch up doing flat benchs with inclines first or reverse the order.

Yeah they have them at the one I go too. I usually use 25 pounders, but if im feeling really good the day im working out, i'll do one set with 27 1/2 instead.

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I'm having trouble with my pc. I don't know if this will even post.

But anyways, yeah, you don't want to keep doing things the same way so your muscles get accustomed to a motion. It also just becomes second nature and you won't concentrate on it as much either.
From what I've read, walking is good for cardio and that's about it. Walking uphill isn't supposed to be too good for your back either. It's not the same as climbing. It barely burns any calories. If you think about it, skiing, climbing, or biking would give more body movement than walking.

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The Focus Ball: coolest thing ever,check this out, its a basketball sized ball thats suspended by bunji chord from floor to ceiling, you hit the ball and it comes right back, the thing can fuck you up. keep hitting the ball with both hands, you forward foot should be at where its screwed in below, it rules and is a good workout, good for hand/eye coordination. my friend owns one and i use it from time to time, if you ever come across one you will get slapped in the face by the ball at some point when using it.

Banana Bag: large punching bag, i hit with roundhouse kicks<barefoot is best>, like in muay thai, usually low kicks, hit with my shins. theres a thing kickboxers do call pyramids. one punch one kick, then 2 punches, 2 kicks, 3 punch 3 kicks and so on till you reach ten. then go backwards and decrease, you do this nonstop, no breaks.

i just put this stuff down coz i am gonna incorporate it more in working out, if any yall have a punch bag or something maybe the info is useful. i really dig kickboxing and hitting a bag is actually a really good workout, good for cardio without leaving the house. i hope its useful

That sounds more like a mental focus kinda thing mixed with pain, lol. If you fuck up you start all over, but then personal discipline will determine just how dedicated you really are when no one else is watching. That is the real test... when no one else will ever know, what will you do?

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Protein bars generally have a higher level of fat, yes, but I think a protein shake would be absolutely perfect for your situation. In only one scoop of my whey protein powder there are 17 grams of protein, 2 carbs, and 2 grams of fat. You generally only need one scoop of this (maybe 2) in one shake. Add some skim milk (if you don't want 1%), some fruit, and you've got yourself a high protein, decent carb, low fat snack/meal. I just really don't see why, other than the price, you wouldn't want this. When you are cutting, carbs and protein are basically the only thing you want to be eating, and very little fat. You need the carbs for energy, and the protein to keep your bones healthy and gain muscle. If you eat too much protein it's not like it's going to turn into fat, you will just piss it out. Aim for about 30g at each meal.

Good job on the cardio. I remember the cutting days. Me and my buddy would go on those elliptical machines, press manual, put it on level 10, and run hard for half an hour. We'd burn about 600 calories haha. My god, we were fucking stupid. After that we would do full workout sessions. It was overtraining to the max.

yeah, but we're young man, our bodies can take it. thanks for the support too. as for the protein shake stuff, ill look into it. sometimes ill have a fruit smoothy for lunch...low fat yogurt, blue berries, wheat germ, orange juice

filling and tastey

and yeah i stick to protein and carbs really, i dont eat anything fatty

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I used to get peanut butter and chocolate protein shakes at my old gym. They tasted so good. I had about 4 then we switched to a different gym so I don't get them anymore. I might start buying the mix sometime soon..

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i like to watch tv and eat food. does that count as some sort of work out?

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Sounds like a pretty fuckin good one to me

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Starting next week I will be working for 20 hours on top of my uni. Which will consist of lifting hunks of meat weighing an average of 10kg and pushing around trolleys that weigh at least 500kg - does that count for anything?

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I remember when I was 19, my work out friend told me to gain weight fat wise was to gain weight muscle wise. They were right. I started to drink 4000 calories a day for a few months. I gained 20 lb in 6 months, but was 12% BFC.

I weighed 180 lb when I joined the Navy. I'm 215 lb at 6'0' with 18% BFC now. Working out takes aq long ass lime but will stay with you the rest of your life.

Just look at Glen Danzig! He just turned 50 this year on June 23. I seen him back last year, in Nov I think, and he looked better then me. He at least looked 30, no shit. Maybe he really did sell his soul, then again, he does actually work out on a weekly basis.

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This is going to be a collection of random replies to what I've seen since my last post:

If you're going for general speed in burning over time as a ratio, running is fastest, followed by elliptical, and then the bike and stairmaster are about the same.

Personally, I use an elliptical, with occasional running, just because I have to for the Navy. Running may work the fastest, but it's the most damaging to your body. So, since you can maintain a higher intensity on an elliptical for a longer period of time, overall it is argued that the elliptical is a more efficient fat burner. Bikes have never done a damn thing for me, I'd only use those and a stairmaster if I wanted to get my ass in better shape...but that's just me. Rowing machines as cardio are pretty much a joke, too, from my experiences.

As far as Protein Powders go, I use Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey. A 10 lb. bag costs me 55 bucks from bodybuilding.com, and I go through that much in a month or so, so it works out well. Roughly 110 calories, 24 g prot, 6 g carbs per shake. Good stuff.

With changing up your routine, depending on what it is you're trying to follow, you need some sort of consistency for a while. Don't change your routine every week, or you will never know what exercises work really well for you, and what don't. 12 weeks is a pretty usual average.

Alright, that's it for now. Beefcake, BEEFCAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!

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First run for me today after being sick for a while. Oh and btw running isn't damaging to your body as long as you don't run in a funny way or max out on every run. If you just take it easy and increase the distance a little as you get better there won't be a problem. Always run after your own capacity.

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I got plain old whey powder from the bulk food store. It was dirt cheap. I found a recipe I think on bodybuilding.com for homemade shake mix. Since I'm not training or anything like that I don't use much, but the addition seems to make me feel better. Since I don't do the artificial sweetener thing I use a couple packs of whatever flavored instant pudding mix, some nonfat coffee creamer powder, whey powder, and I add some pure dark cocoa powder because it has a lot of antioxidants in it. I get that at that store, too. Sometimes I'll use some dutch and dark together. I put it in a canister and shake it up to mix it. If I want to add some to my coffee in the morning I mix it with a little milk because whey does not like to mix with hot things so I dissolve it first. It also makes some good chocolate milk drink. You can leave out the chocolate and use french vanilla pudding mix if you want and it's not bad either. The pudding gives it the body.
I just found a recipe for black bean brownies I want to try that's more like cake. Lots of protein in those suckers. I'll let you know how they turn out.

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Just make sure you're getting plenty of water using protein of any kind so you don't screw up your kidneys!

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I used to consume 6,000 calories daily, 350 grams of protein and 700 carbs daily.


Not healthy, granted, but it changed my body so drastically that everyone swore I was on steroids ( imagine if I actually were ).

Running on any kind of grass/soil/something that gives a bit will be better for your joints.

And about the tenets that Fox posted, that's the basic routine every weightlifter adopts when they begin. It is not gospel though : IFBB Bodybuilder Ernie Jackson started getting really huge once he started using lighter weights with machines with reps in counts of 12 and upwards. I myself very rarely use a free-weight bench press, as my chest, shoulders and arms just don't get a pump out of it. In actuality, any sort of machine benefits me the best, like a smith machine press, or dips. Its because of my shorter arms I have to resort to things like flyes to fully develop my chest.

As far as diet goes, follow your food pyramid. Its that simple. For weight gain, follow your food pyramid, in small amounts comprising a very large daily sum.

The run went great, was out for 45 minutes. Felt good all the time and I didn't feel anything strange anywhere.

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And about the tenets that Fox posted, that's the basic routine every weightlifter adopts when they begin. It is not gospel though : IFBB Bodybuilder Ernie Jackson started getting really huge once he started using lighter weights with machines with reps in counts of 12 and upwards. I myself very rarely use a free-weight bench press, as my chest, shoulders and arms just don't get a pump out of it. In actuality, any sort of machine benefits me the best, like a smith machine press, or dips. Its because of my shorter arms I have to resort to things like flyes to fully develop my chest. Above posted by John Holland




The thing to remember about any IFBB pro THEY DO STEROIDS ,GROWTH HORMONES among other things.
A person on JUICE will grow on any routine. In 1984 I was in california , at a golds I believe. I saw Albert Beccles who was huge doing curls with 30 pound Dumb Bells.. As far as Machines,I do use the Smith , Hammer strenght among others. A routine that gets you results is good. The thing to remember like Lee Haney said Stimulate dont Annihilate because unless your juicing you cant recover.

As far as changing routines ,Ishould have explained it better. A beginner isnt going to know their bodies for awhile. I would stick to a very basic routine all major Core Exercises. Benchs , Squats , Presses , Curls. etc
On the other hand almost any decent routine a beginner will grow . as you progress you have to Shock the muscle. Like Wally said you have to know what your doing you cant go from doing lets say benchs to squats to flys or something hap hazard.
Here is an example of switching up and not screwing yourself up
week 1 chest
Smith machine flat benchs 4 sets
hammer strength inclines 4 sets
Dips 4 sets
Pec Dec 4 sets
ok notice pretty basic you hit the entire pectoral muscle

Ok the following week on chest day
start with
Smith Machine inclines
Hammer strength machine flat benchs
Hammer stength declines
flyes with DBs
The purpose of this is too keep it fresh and keep your body guessing.
Some of you this wont work you will want to do the same routine for long periods thats ok
THE SECRET OF BODYBUILDING OR WORKING OUT < IS THERE IS NO SECRETS,
IF IT WORKS FOR YOU THEN ITS GOOD.

So, i`ve just started witht his protein shake thingy, i`ll see how well it works. By the way, does no one ever do those good ol pushups anymore?

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wow, what the fuck did you eat to get all that amount of calories and protein?!

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Consume your fast acting proteins after you work out, that'd be your best bet.

Pushups are essentially bench presses using about 55% of your body weight. That's 132 lbs. for me, and I can do that all day. I usually do 6 to 10 sets of 20 pushups when I do them. They can be good if you don't have much chest development or shoulder strength, but generally they aren't going to build you like a bench press.

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Bob has done those with sandbags on his back. He's done them off the edges of the furniture in all sorts of weird positions. lol

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Yeah, I used to use two of my dad's 70 lb sandbags when I did them. I also would do incline and decline pushups in the living room by either placing my feet (incline) or hands (decline) on the chair or couch or something.

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i do pushups... i do two sets of 20 every day

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the most push ups I ever did in one set was 40 about 2 months ago. I usually do them on days I can't get to the gym.

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so uhh, when are you supposed to drink these protein shakes? before you work out? after you work out? breakfast?

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I believe it works best if you have a shake before and after working out. I think the shake before you work out is supposed to have a little less protein than the one after you work out. Walpurgis will most likely know more about it.

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You have to experiment some people cant work out with food in their stomachs . Ideally it is best to have one before and after and before bed. But for certain right after the session you need to replenish your protein. Diet is more than half the battle dont eat right you dont grow . dont eat right you get fat .
I get a kick out of people who try and starve themselves and wonder why They cant lose wieght. The body goes into starvation mode eats muscles before it eats the fat. Thats why people on atkins lose weight.they eat shitload of Protein and Fats with no carbs. that system isnt all healthy either IMHO
Diet and rest are the keys to success in any excerise program.

atkins diet runs along the lines of too much meat eating which isnt good for you, especially mystery meat proccessed stuff

i heard if you want to gain wieght/muscle you eat or have the protien drink 45 minutes before the workout

some folks cant handle anything before a work out .its up to the individual

That's also going to depend on how long you work out and what all you're doing. The best recommendations that I can give are to have a low glycemic carb such as bread or pasta awhile before you work out, I'm talking an hour or two, and also any sort of protein, chicken, a shake, eggs, or whatever. You don't want to go on a full stomach, because you'll probably puke, unless you're a pussy and won't exert yourself, but if you go on an empty stomach, one, it'll take away from your concentration because you'll be thinking about your sore stomach, and two, you won't have any energy ready to be used by your body. Post workout, high fast acting protein and high glycemic carbs are great. Whey protein shakes, chicken, fish are very good for post workout meals. As far as carbs go, high glycemic carbs are fast burners. I normally rely on fruit for that, any kind of fruit will work. But if you want some more sustaining carbs, rice and bread, while lower in the index, are still quite good. You want a somewhat large amount of carbs post-workout, so your body will be using those for energy and the protein for muscle synthesis, instead of using protein for both, because energy replenishment will take priority, that's just how your body works. Alright, I'm sick of talking all intelligently. Titties and beer!

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well isnt that why we work out .For TITTIES AND BEER

I saw that, Robert. Are you listening to Zappa?

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What the hell are you talking about, woman?

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Im not stoned enough for zappa , give me few more hits

No way, man. You slobber on the joints too much. It's like trying to hit a wet noodle after you had it, man.


And this mother has to tell her kid about the other Mothers' ---of invention.

walpurgis, Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention did a song called "Titties and Beer." You know the guy that did the song with watch out where the huskies go and don't you eat that yellow snow?

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Dont bogart that joint man
Most these young uns probably never got into Zappa ,im not sure I like him to much , hes too far out there even though Steve Vai got his start with zappa

Yeah, he is pretty weird. My friend had sent me an acoustic instrumental of his that was him playing guitar and it was really good. I thought maybe it was Vai playing but no. He nor I can remember the name of it though. My old high school choir director used to say that Zappa and Billy Joel put on the best concerts because they could and often did play every instrument on the stage.

back to pumping iron............

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The only thing I liked that Billy Joel played was the model he used to be married to.

ok, so you're supposed to drink one before and one after working out of those proteins shakes?
how much power are you supposed to put in the milk?

also my shoulder's kinda hurting, should I wait till it passes or is it ok to work out with it like that? It's not like really bad, but just kind of uncomfortable to lift up my right hand.

I've got gym at school on mondays, we usually run a lot and somoething like that for about 60 minutes, I shouldn't work out any strenght excersices the same day right?

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I'd just do some light stuff with your sore arm, but if it hurts too much and it's just been done recently make sure it's not swollen or something. My darn arm still hurts from getting out of the back of walpurgis truck in March. I can't reach up the middle of my back like I could. I can only get to waistband in back. If you're friends with a coach or the gym teacher ask them about it. It's hard to tell you something about it over the net.

If you have something with some complex carbs before you work out it will give you some added energy and burn for awhile. If you have your protein shake afterwards while your metabolism is still up it will get into your system faster and start feeding your muscles to build them. Just give yourself some leeway before and after so you don't make yourself throw up. There should be instructions on how much to use on the shake mix.

I'm not sure about the running business.

If you guys are into getting powdered egg whites they sell them in the baking supply sections of grocery stores where the flour and cake mix is or I noticed they had them at the bulk food store, too.

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Gah, I'm too late for this thread so I don't want to contribute..but I need to start working out again so I can blame my rage on steroids.

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Damn wally, after doing like 20 sets of dips and pull ups, I feel like I need a bra.

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We must
We must
We must improve our bust
We must
We must
We must improve our bust
We must
We must
We must improve our bust
c'mon girls!! Let me hear you!
Let's firm up!
You need the support to come from you! Not Playtex!

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Well then don't do that many sets of them. Especially dips, that's a lot of strain on your rotator cuffs...

ManOWar, there's no reason not to strength train after running for an hour...or before it, or whenever.

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If you run for a hour , you certaintly wont have much for your strength training.
You have to decide whats your emphasis if your going to build size and muscle then cut down the running ,If you want a lean look , Do light to moderate weight with higher reps to tone your muscles. If you do a over bundence of cardio your not adding any significant amount of muscle. So pick what you want Size Stength or tone.
You can do both your cardio and weight training but you have to decide your emphasis.

Everyone just shoot steroids into your ass. Do it until your asscheeks are green and sweltering with the faux hormonal fluid. Its the only way to get big. You sissies with your "carbs" and "proteins" ... the only way to build muscle is to take a needle and ram it down your cock and inject pure Dura-Decabolin down the chute. You need to lactate milk from your now swollen nipples laced with pro-hormone metabolites and then curdle it into a health food bar, and eat these bars all hours of the day. Drink your own semen too, as that will have undoubtedly some sort of green glowing radioactivated liquid in it that will make your muscles bigger, duh. Drink it straight from the spout whilst stabbing another needle or ten in the ol-man pole.

If you want to get freaky yes steroids is the only way . You are never going to look like a IFBB Pro without em . Testerone cypionate , Deca , sustonon and Growth Hormone and insulin are the staples of their regimen.
The thing to remember , a guy who does juice can overtrain eat like shit and he will grow . You cant get 20 inch shredded arms naturally.
But if you go natural ,you can get impressive but will have to dial in your training ,cardio and diet and you will get nice size but never be like a Pro.
Just the long and the short .

I wasn't going to post in this thread... but this is complete tot.

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no its not ,Im talking about people who insist on doing alot cardio.

I must say I disagree. Being the size I am, yeah, running for an hour won't leave me with a whole lot of energy, but I've definitely been on an elliptical or bike for an hour or damn close to it, then got up and did other stuff. But I'm also young and have been doing this stuff for a few years, and I normally keep it at a pretty high level of intensity, regardless.
I do cardio most of the time right after I'm done lifting, and usually go for 350 to 700 calories burnt, and I wouldn't say I have much trouble adding size. All of these things depend on the individual, though. So what works for me won't necessarily work for someone else.

And John Holland, I'm not sure how serious you were with your post, so I'm not going to take it personally, but there are lots of reasons to work out and try to get big. Steroids are by no means required, but a good diet will definitely help, and keep you from using all of the vitamins and minerals that your body needs. And RAM (radioactive material) isn't green, unless it's green before it's irradiated. We've been moving RAM around for the past week at work...can't say any of it is green.

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Actually I meant that they were looking like a body builder's should.

I also wasn't putting that much strain on them. The machine that I used was this "gravitation" thing where you could subtract an amount of weight from your body with this knee rest thing, then I didn't have to dip with my entire body wieght. And I took off like 130lbs from my total body weight cause any more than that my wrists started that hemorrhage thing again. Oh, by the way, is it possible that the tighter you squeeze the bar, your blood won't run so fast?

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hey far beyond sane, can you elaborate on that, coz thats what i do, i use lighter wieghts with more repititions. ill bench like 100 pounds alot, curl like 70 pounds alot etc. i dont max out completely with the wieghts. what is so wrong with that?

Wally are you a big guy to begin with?
If you like most of kids in here and you run for a hour you will weigh 120 lbs. If you are big dude to begin with than you will be 240 instead of 275 so you still will be big.
im not saying cardio is bad , but if you are trying to bulk up and put on decent size doing more than 20 minutes of cardio is counter productive for that purpose. a bodybuilder doing a show will do a shitload of cardio to etch in the cuts by losing the body fat , but remember the pros are doing winstrol diuretics as well.
You have to decide what your priorities are.Size or cuts

steriods ruin all of sports, i watch ultimate fighting and pride fc and alot of those guys juice. steriods have become so refined that even the lightwieghts can do them. they gotta develop some comprehensive testing coz this shit is getting outta hand.

Tech, steroids are never going away.
The truth is any one over say 35 can go these new age wellness centers longevity centers or what not and say Doc. I cant get a woody. the doctor will prescribe testosterone therapy , Because its a fact yoyr levels decrease drastically after a certain age.So presto you get testosterone treatment usually Cypionate which is a anabolic steroid .So now you get bigger muscles and able to get a chubby
So if you think steroids are going away , wont happen.

fox'--Bob went from close to 300 pounds down to about 210 or so to get in the Navy using the Navy workout for probably about a year. He's around 250 now and about 6 feet tall. He's got broad shoulders and big arms, but he's pretty proportionate. He said he wears about a size 36 waist pants now.

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