What are your feelings about death? Do you believe in an afterlife? Or do you believe in ceasing to exist with nothing to look forward to after your heart stops? As physical beings we all face the same destiny - Death. It is an inevitablity, nothing can prevent you from dying.

In a sense it saddens me; all of the people I know are going to be dead a century from now. But at the same time it gives me a sense of well being. Perhaps Death is a great relief.

I don't know what to believe. Anything regarding Paganism is most likely fabricated from the years of decay the original religion has wrongly been faced with. Christianity makes absolutley now sense to me, and at times I think it actually supresses humanity. Satanism makes little sense either, since there are many branches of Satanism, all of them having little to do with one another.

Did'nt you make a thread like this back when you were Jittery Sniper?

why hasn't he been banned?
Not that I care. Its just he's made more than one extra name.

Anyways, Your old thread on this sucked, so why make a new one?

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I honestly don't remember, or even care for that matter.

Personally, I feel the afterlife is a supernatural subject, it transcendes the natural world, and all we know as natural beings in the natural world. I believe it is impossible for us know what happens after we die. Therefore, for me to discuss it is totally fruitless as whatever it is is beyond my grasp of comprehension.

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Fvkk, this is so similar..

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Hmm, death.

Well lets see, first to understand death let's look at life.

What created us? And what created what created us? That's the story of how we got here. Will the universe go on forever or will it collapse? These questions play a role in understanding why we live. I've thought about it and I can see no reason at all as to why we live.

Look at it this way, we live to die. When we die life goes on forever afterward. Now, first lets say humans have a bright future and inhabit other planets and keep the species alive. What's the point in that? There is no goal. Live to live, there's no reason as to why and what we live for. So what, humans go on forever living and achieving nothing? There is no prize at the end, it's an uphill battle without recognition of winning or overcoming, there's no trophy.

Let's say humans are doomed by whatever, another plague that wipes us out, the sun exploding, whatever. Then what was the point in our living anyway? We just all die for as much of a reason as to why we live. Were we suppposed to live through this plague or whatever? Was that the goal? "Here, overcome this event which threatens all human life and could wipe you out and you will live longer. Until something else as catastrophic happens.

So in that spectrum, you can see that all we accomplish means nothing. We will continue living forever achieving nothing, or we will die, no point in living.

Lets look at it in a different contrast. Nothing I could possibly do in my life is going to affect anyone in the slightest form. I'm not leaving a mark on humanity, I'm not contributing to shit by living my life, doing my job, performing at school. Nothing I do will be recognised and nothing I do could possibly help the forward movement of Humans, so what is the point in me living? There is none. Maybe it is the argument that it is better to experience life in all it's pain and in all it's joy than to have not experienced life at all.

Getting back to the point that nothing I do could possibly help humanity, why not kill myself if I have nothing to live for? I don't know why, there's nothing stopping me, I'm just to weak.

So that pretty much covers it, there is no point to life, other than life itself. Pain, joy, whatever, emotion from elation to depression are the meanings of life. There is no long run, there is no point other than experience.

Now, what do I think about death?

Death, is the end in my opinion. When you die that's it, like an unrechargable battery. Nothing will happen. Eternity passed before my birth and eternity x infinity will pass afterwards, with nothing to show for it. So there is no point in my existence, nor in anyone elses. As stated, nothing anyone does, nothing humanity does means shit in the long run. Whats the point in living a pointless task. It's exactly like to playing a video game or a guitar. In this game lets say there is no end, there are infinite randomly generated levels. You get better from playing it, you hone skills as you go along, just like guitar, just like humankind, honing our technologies, honing our intelligence. But like this game, there is no goal but to be good, there is no point other than self satisfaction.

Death is the end of life, with nothing to show.

I see no point in life and that is my view on life and death. Someone want to argue it or prove me wrong?

Damn man, your so negative You have a good point though, I can`t really think of any specific reason for us to live, but I don`t feel it`s all hopeless, as I do enjoy life quite alot. And what`s gonna happen when we some day die? We will never now, at least not until we die.

I think that Christianity can be suppressive, but in a good way. I can't help but think that if the 10 Commandments are followed as close as possible a lot of added hurts and conflicts won't have the chance to happen. We do have the decisions to make ourselves. I'm believe that there was a man called Jesus as much as I believe that Solomon or George Washington existed even though I wasn't there to witness them. I also believe that the ones that witnessed the resurrection were truthful. So I think that in believing that Jesus was God's son that Heaven will be my next step after this life. It doesn't mean I don't question a lot of things, but when it comes down to what I feel is right that's what I believe. I don't think there's any one religion that's totally accurate in any respect though.

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Contradicting yourself there, you do see a point in life.

I agree with the first line, the point of life is self satisfaction. Thats why I read, learn, play my guitar, eat nice food...

...and crack one off every now and again.

Yeah, I do contradict myself there, but only really in words. I meant in the last line - There is no real point to life man, I think the word is hedonism - the belief that pleasure is mans greatest achievement and goal. What I mean there is that there is no long run point, no great goal to achieve [you see, contradict myself in words again] that makes us win, nothing to live for but experience. I know what I mean and I think it's pretty easy to understand what I mean, there is not looming goal at the end of the tunnel, you know man.

Your right about there is no long run point to life, but I can`t say I can see any reasen for having that either. It`s better to make your own goals rather than being born with one.

Ahhhh man, I think you kinda miss the point I'm trying to make...

hmmm.... probably. Must be my english

In an abstract kind of way, I do think life is an reason for itself. Altough there may be no "goal" to ultimatly achieve, I do believe sentience is something to add to the universe. We may or may not be the only sentient beings in this cosmos, but when you think about it, even tough it all "exists" without sentience, there would be nothing to "witness" existence. Self gratification is as good a goal to live as anything else. I do not necesserily believe in such a thing as "god", but wouldn't it be logical if such a thing existed, it wanted to let something experience creation?

i do not know if it makes sence, but this is how i feel about it. I just think there is no set "goal" to achieve, just life our lives, be happy and observe whatevere happens to be observed. The universe would be so empty without sentiece.. without it, you wouldn't be thinking about it.. it would all be just.. rocks & chemical reactions..

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Doubt it man More like I just can't properly word it, I dunno. Maybe just try reading it again, if you are really that interested

Ha ha whatever, it`s not that important

I think that's a big difference between just believing you're here til you're dead and buried and there being an afterlife. I feel I do have a goal to reach and I'm just waiting for that to eventually happen. In the meantime, if it's the thing to do, I share what I believe. It's interesting to see how others do in a conversation like this. It gives me new things to think about, too.

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It would kinda suck to just be gone when your dead. They should atleast give you some minutes to realise whatever the hell there is, even if there was nothing. Everybody is so curious about what happends, and then you don't even get the chance to find out!

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Or do you???..........(cue Twilight Zone music)

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Ne nee ner ner Ne nee ner ner Ne nee ner ner Ne nee ner ner

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What the hell do you want me to say in response to this? I'm sorry for making a ghey thread?

I bounce back and forth as far as opinions go on this subject.

Another thread about death.

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Sounds like someone need the reassurance of blind faith to get through life.

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bullshit. Do you want to find out what it realy is after we die? Maybe we are just gone, but then we wouldn't be there to know that, right?

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I do believe in life after death. I do believe we go on somewhere after we die... our soul, our spirit, our essence, what makes us "us" moves on. I am a pagan, a celt, a clairvoyant, clairaudient, clairsentient, (see, hear and sense spirits) have been all three since birth. I left christainity at the age of 15 when it taught me all it could and also the ministers of church, when i told of them of my gifts, one said "i was evil, work of the devil and to ignore them" the other told me "it was a gift from god and to use them"....

...so i turned my back on the church, didn't want to be part of something that always contridicted themselves....

....anyway to answer the question yes i do believe in life after death, i believe, like i said that our soul, our spirit, our essence (whatever 'label' you wish to use) does travel on to a better place.

And as for our reason for living? so that our spirit can learn, learn lessons and progress so next time we re-incarnate (if we choose to do so), our next life will be better.

that's what i believe anyway *Shrug* you may not agree or think it bulls**t that fair enough, just respect what i believe.

love and snuggles,

bunny xxx

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im kinda like u bunny in that stuff

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I'm not a very religious man. I live somewhere within the bible belt, and christanity seems to be the religion of choice. The church uses heaven, hell, and eternal hellfire and damnation as a scare tactic to get you to believe and repent for your sins. Yes, I believe there is A god, and I also believe we will be evaluated for the good/bad we've done here on earth. I also believe that all the different religions are all worshipping the same almighty. Budda = Christ = Muhammad = Mary

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I would like to believe that there is a life after death, that we don't just die and thats it, but i don't find myself agreeing with it, so i don't think there is, as nice as it would be. I don't believe in a god either, there is far too much pain to perfectly innocent people for there to be a god who cares. Death comes to use all, but for some reason it comes too soon and unpleasantly for some people, and i dont think that any god could be that cruel.

my £0.02

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who says ''god'' can do sumtin bout it if he could stop suffering, war, anger, pain etc he would. so obviously he cant

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i dont know what i believe and will most likely remain an agnostic my entire life. its worth checking out religion if you feel you need something like that to rely on

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Well, there's contradictions in all sorts of religions, not just Christianity otherwise there wouldn't be some of the problems there are right now. I was talking about American Indians today with someone and mentioned a hatred between tribes in the state of Oklahoma where a friend worked. She said that the 2 women she worked with wouldn't talk to each other even for business reasons. The only thing that the one would say was to call the other a "blood drinker." She told my friend not to sell or give her any puppies because they'd end up dead. Put 2 and 2 together.
I'm a Christian, but I don't believe as a Catholic does. I wouldn't pray to Mary or tell a priest what I did to get forgiveness. I go directly to The Man. He's never too busy and I can say whatever I want. He hasn't done me wrong so far.

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if you sit and think about the eternity of death for long enough, sometimes you get an idea of how long that really is. for about 1/5 of a second

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My sentiments exactly.

i liked what george carlin said about reincarnation.......if there was, lets say 5 billion more people here than there was 100 years ago. where the fuck did all these extra souls come from?.

i seriously think your brain induces hallucination as it shuts down and when thoses neurotransmitters stop firing and the gears grind to a halt.......... sleep without dreams

the souls could come from bugs or monkeys according to buddhist reincarnation beliefs

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I grew up in a christian family. Eventually I came to the conclusion that if god is perfect, he wouldn't have created this. And by that I mean why would a god of perfection create humanity? After I parted ways with the church I formed am agnostic outlook, and eventually tried to get involved with other religions.

I thought I was a Satanist for a long time. The theistic type, none of the Anton Lavey teachings which have nothing to do with traditional or theistic Satanism. I also got involved with Asatru for a while. I realized I am not 100% Northern European and found out that it makes no sense to be an Odinist with my heritage.

As of late, I'm just confused.

satanism has always seemed like a easy way out. Praising a manifestation of everything hates and the bringer of death just seems like something a emo fag or a slipknot fan would do simply because of the flash instead of substance. to be completely honest, i have always gravitated towards FF VIIs views on the afterlife.

I know exactly what you mean
That "life force surrounding everything" makes sense tough

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hahahaha



Well I'm assuming you know this anyway,but by the bibles teachings god wanted humanity to be perfect.The serpent(satan)tempted eve to sin and eve tempted adam to do the same.Therefore humanity was tarnished and perfection flew right out the window.

I'm not sure I believe that,I was just going by what I know about the bible.

That depends on what you think theistic Satanism is. If you think of it as a group of whiny teenagers who spank their wangs too much and draw pentagrams because they look cool then yes - it is an easy way out. However, if you truely try to practice the religion, and believe in a hierarchy of Summerian gods that are now called daemons then it's not so easy. It's actually incredibly difficult. If anything, I would assume Summerian Paganism is closer to true Satanism then most anything out there today. Devil worship is a joke, since theistic Satanism teaches that Satan is actually the Summerian god Ea and that the teachings of the church bastardized the whole damn thing. Fuck it, who cares? I don't.

i know a lot of religions/beliefs have contradictions not just christainity, i was just sharing my personal experience, and i certainly didn't mean to offend (if i did am sworry) , if you are a christain hey! that's cool with me, i respect you for it and you're beliefs

and i was of the understanding that the buddists (sp?) believed that animals re-incarnated into animals and humans into humans...

...i could be mistaken though

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I'm pretty much on the same page as L,B'XXX and everything she said. I believe in Christianity and think its true. Thats Not to say that there arent a lot of hypocrites in the church though.

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What happens after you die? Well, nothing in my opinion. You just cease to exist in all possible ways. Yeah, it would be nice if there was an afterlife, but once I'm dead, I'm sure I won't care!

I know what happens to you when you die!!!! I've got it all figured out!! You sit at a pc in front ot the green screen, but there's nobody home. Sort of just like Saturday nights are on here now.

bunny --nobody's offended me. It's an interesting discussion.

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Same here.

I do believe in an afterlife,I just don't what religon is right so I steer clear of all of them.My whole family is christian so I'm more partial to it.

As far as I can tell this turned into a pretty enlightening discussion.

Well, so far any of the Methodist churches that I've been to have been pretty cool to me. They're more interested in the gathering and who or what you are isn't as important. I was out of the church I grew up in when the scandal occured though. The feds came in and confiscated the computers for porn the interum minister had downloaded.
I think that's one of the reasons it bothers me so much when I hear about a church or really any distinct building being destroyed. Mine has beautiful old stained glass windows of Jesus and huge dark brickwork. It was originally built in the early 1800's and was moved from it's original site. There's no other building in town made like it. It's probably in the top 5 oldest building in the county. A lot of good memories there, too.

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Energy cannot be created, nor destroyed. So the energy which is life has go somewhere once it leaves our bodys. I'm not saying a heaven or hell, i mean it would be great if we all went to a heaven or some sort for a pleasureable afterlife, but nobody knows for sure. Worry about life while your living, worry about death when you're dead. life is complicated enough without having to worry about dying. There's no need to ponder the wonders of death for we will all find out one day, until then get all you could out of life. You should be figuring out the meaning of life now, not death. You have all of eternity for that

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It feeds the worms.

You are disgracing science with that idea. You are taking something that has never been nor can ever be proven to be true, the spirit/soul/whatever, assuming it is true an apply the laws of physics to it.

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You need to get your terms straight. There is no simple agnostic. There is a atheistic agnostic - someone who believes the human mind can never know if there is or there is not a god in our present state of existence (me). And than there is the retarded theistic agnostic who believes there is a god because can know nothing about him in our present state of existence. This ofcourse is a very stupid belief.

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i am looking forward to dying, not in the suicidal sense, but as the culmination of everything i have done, kind of like beating a video game. death will happen, no matter what, so we had better get used to the concept and quit running from it.

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Sort of like people do who have just about died or realize they don't have much time to live anyways. Although some have their belief systems, but they live the rest of their life that way.

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thanks for clearing that up, i didnt know it was that specific of a term.

just write "im clueless" on my forehead then. thats my view on the afterlife. it should be everyones, but whats life without muslims blowing up town markets

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No matter what you do in life you can't truly prepare for death, it can happen anytime. To the best of us. Human life is fragile it can be gone instantly, there is no garauntee on life only death. I agree with what people were saying earlier, that there is no ultimate goal, no real reason for life other than the things we expirence. So indulge in life don't waste it worrying, you'll only make life miserable well more miserable.

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Hmmm.. makes more sense. i've always though Norse beliefs interesting myself. But The FF VII religious belief still makes the most sense to me.

FF VII was an amazing game, but not even half as cool as Castlevania Symphony of the Night.

I feel that there is a deeper meaning to life that what most would like to believe, I've just yet to find that meaning. Almost as if there is a large piece of the picture missing, though the picture will never be too clear. I confused myself.

I just asked my kid if that was the Castlevania he had and it is. I used to like watching him play that.

As far as the meaning of life? Chuck knows. I think you've simplified the search for a lot of things that have a missing piece. Cures for things, meaning of life, or what's at the end of the universe, among others.
Perfectly normal and healthy way to be to wonder.

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norse beliefs are not summerian beliefs, i like riffs. if you want to talk about norse mythology though, get in touch. much to be learned from it

Indeed, Norse Paganism is much different from Summerian Paganism.

L,B'XXX, Castlevania is a great series. I have spent much of my life playing those games. Hehe.

Castlevania Symphony of the Night is THE best 2d game of all time.Awesome soundtrack too.

even if you dont believe odin is sitting up in valhalla, you can learn a lot from "havamal" the small chapter in the edda, which are all quotes credited to odin


the same goes for many religion. i dont have to believe in buddha to get an interesting world view and things to think about from the religion

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About Summeria.

These people where the first civilization known. Some of their records date back to 10,000 B.C.. Now if I remember right, they started to fall apart about 3,000 B.C. but their culture carried over into everything around them including the Eygptians. Abraham, the man who is the father of Jewdism/Christianity/Islam was Summerian. He left the City/state of Er and brought the other Monoltheism believes of one great god ( one God but many angels. Sumereians have a God that is the God of the Elder Gods. The God in the Sun if I remember right. I believe the Summerians called angels gods but knew them as Lesser/Demi Elder Gods. ). Many of the Bible stories are taken from Summerian text. I know this because of the few clay tablets with writing on them that where recovered from Iraq years ago, before Sadom became the dickhead ruler. There is a whole wealth of ancient knowledge just waiting to be recovered in the sands over there. Who knows what could be found. It's one of the greatest, less known mysteries of the world.

I got my own beliefs about how it all relates, but talk of Summerian Gods frightens and intrest me greatly.

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That's my feelings in a nutshell. Even though I have my own beliefs I can learn from other ones. Someone said they pictured me as one of those ladies that talks to her plants. I've been known to do that before. I have a hard times believing that things are inanimate objects at times and that sort of goes with some North American Indian beliefs.

That Castlevania soundtrack is really good.

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I imagine...we die...it's over.
like dreamless sleep for eternity.
Somehow...that is comforting to me.


What does bother me is people I have told this to ask...
"Well...if there is no afterlife...no way to be held accountable for your life, why are you so moral and goody goody?"

If they dont get it....they never will so I explain not.

because not everyones a selfish prick, bia

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Well DUH

as of right now, fuck death, im here for life, il deal with death when it comes...

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Mmm, use pretentious wording, you do. Yes.




We should talk more ...

seemed to me like you were asking a question

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That cool Trans....but was stating a fact....and that it's odd that when people find out I believe in no afterlife....how most would feel that would also include living like a heathen or scoundral since there's no way to be held accountable.
I need no gods or devil to tell me right and wrong and simply live peacefully....well...until debating and jerking with a few from MetalTabs
But it's all good..

It is quite sad that many individuals can not seperate morality and religion. The fact of the matter is society dictates our morals more than religion. But ofcourse socitiety's standards are derived from religious standards. So really it is a big circle. I guess my major point is that there are more people who are religious and pick and choose which morals they will derive from thier respcted religion than thoes who adhere strictly to a religious doctrine. Bottom line we all derive our own sense of morality on our own terms, wether it be from our parents, text we read, what we see on TV, or what we derive from our mine. Religion is only a fraction of the moral influences on most people.

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DEAD-- Your comment just reminded me of something when you said that people derive moralities and such from basically peers or media. There's another aspect of humainity that no one has touched on and that's how feral children fit into the system of things. I've read a little about them due to a friend's mentioning some European feral people, but not enough to comment other than just make others aware of them. If I remember correctly he was talking about there being quite a few in Romania.
I'm curious to know what some people raised in those conditions feel about "civilized" people once they've been around them and communicate.

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do you mean homeless children or kids that grow up in a forest

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Some homeless kids still have human contact. I'm thinking more the ones who haven't so I suppose a forest situation would be closest.

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cant be too many of those.

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I don't suppose there are many. The one I read the most about was from the southern US and she was never around people until her midteens. It's been several years since I read about her though so I don't remember a lot of details.

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First i need to state that NONE of my replies are in a sarcastic or trying to belittle your views or "argue". I think at times it sounds like im talking as if to show you that i think it is stupid for you to think this way. This is not the case. Its just that after i read your post, i had to say something...


i dont really think there needs to be a "reason" to live.


i dont think we live to die. If people were to inhabit other planets, it would mean a hell of a lot to the people in charge of the accomplishment. And what do you mean my "acheiving nothing"? recording a good album is quite an acheivement. If everyone thought like you we wouldnt have music. Maybe there is no prize for you because nothing seems to make you happy. the prize many older people have is being able to look at something as simple as the family the created. i think that makes many people happy.

Once again, our accomplishmets can mean a lot to other people. think about the computer your on right now. this is an accomplishmet, and i happen to think it means a lot. and it probably means a lot more to the people who actually made them.

Write a good book. that is something that could affect lots of people. If you never do anything then i guess youd be right in thinking that nothing you could do would matter.


if you think death is the end, as you say, then i have no idea why you veiw life the way you do. i would think you may at least look forward to an afterlife if you find life so pointless.

great people live on in their accoplishments. even after they die they are remembered/appreciated for what they did. not all of them, but some. so i still dont know why you said our accomplishments mean nothing.

im sure glad all of my favorite bands didnt think it would be pointless to record their albums. if you continue to think this way youll become sadly right when you say there is no point in YOU living. i think it would be better for you to do something with your life then. maybe then, when you die, you just might feel that you lived a not so pointless life.

We live for the same reason as everything else, to reproduce. We just somehow managed to evolve our brains to a point where we look for more answers.
But we are just an advanced animal, here to reproduce and stay alive to do it.

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if thats what we live for, then what about the people who never reproduce. are you saying there life was then meaningless. it depends on what you think is important i guess. i dont think reproducing is the purpose in life.

there is no one unifying goal in life, other than smiply living the best and most satisfying way you can. that can be achieved by any million ways

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thats pretty much what i was saying to infinity

also

theres a reason throughout the day to day life we dont think about death. we dont think every day "how can i make this the best day ive ever had, how can i apprecaite everybody who loves me, how can i be the best person i can". this would be mentally exhausting and youd be very hard pressed to satisfy yourself. every now and then its a wonderful thing to count your blessings and be a good guy to all the people you care about

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Im not saying i feel that way, hell no.

But think about every other creature, why is a dog alive? Or a bird? Or a parasite? They all live to reproduce, same with trees and plants.

What makes us different from other animals? Being able to think on a higher level.
Its our choice whether to reproduce or not, but only because we can think like that. All other animals do it instinctively.

Thats what the circle of life/science tells us why we are alive, we are merely animals.

But honestly i have no idea as in religion, death and shit.
I believe im alive to make friends, be the best person i can, and have fun while i can - and have no regrets. To help people when i can and all that. Just live a good life.

Thats basically what religion teaches you to do, except i dont need to follow a god to do it.
Everyone has it in them.

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I don't agree with your last statement if you want to get really technical. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many prisons. But I do understand what you mean.

Why did we evolve mentally so much more than other creatures? Why don't apes have the same thinking capacity that we do or maybe they will eventually if the world lasts that long?

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That's an arrogant human assumption. (we're all guilty of this...not an insult )

Who knows....perhaps animals are 1000 times more mentally evolved....in ways we have no clue of.
Perhaps they are so in tune with nature....silly things like Ego...greed, corruption are beyond them.
We humans think were're at the top....I suggest we're among the most wreckless and self destructive life forms on the planet. But our arrogance makes us believe we're Number 1


Just a thought.

Dude. You COMPLETELY missed the entire point.

OK. Religion was an idea at first, why just an idea? We, as a race, had no biological scientific advances past using honey on wounds. It was put in place to explain our existance and we still hold it true today, except our today version of religion(s) is so seperate and distorted from teachings of thousands of years ago. The truth of today is, what with science bringing up new questions about existance, that nobody knows what is actually true or not.

The idea of a god seems wasted on contemporary(sp?)society, and indeed probably to foot soldiers in their last seconds on the battlefield during the crusades. i.e.:-

"If there is only one god, why are we fighting over what is true about him?"

The idea of heaven and hell is ridiculous. We are all just energy put into organic matter, everything in the universe is energy...does that mean when a star dies it goes to heaven, or to hell for not being true to what god is? Telling people that they will enjoy a pleasurable eternal life, or eternal damnation, is (and was) a way of keeping the masses under control. Telling people to be good to others and live life the best way you can, (oh and praise god), or you will suffer shouldn't have to be told by speech of fear, it should be human nature. Devoutly religious people have it right, but are delluded in the fact they think they will be blessed with eternal life.

Anyway, there's my opinion on religion and death. I've probably lost the baton of the moment with this but, meh......needed another post or some't.

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Sars....

I agree.

You worded it very nicely.

SARS--What about those devoutly religious people that truely believe in afterlife and brotherhood of man and yet do attrocities of whatever kind almost compulsively? Whether it's theft, molestation, or whatever?

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Do you mean catholics? (teehee)

*ahem*

Well, they haven't got it right......whether they believe in Buddism or Christianity....they'll always have the option of seeing the error of their ways and repenting at the last hurdle, but it's still all just hope and faith that will never materialize(sp?) "May God have mercy on your soul" - the soul is the conscience, in my opinion anyway. Saying 'may god have mercy' just says to me, "I hope you realise".

Or do you mean they aren't 'kept in line' with what they believe?

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Tee hee is right. I was trying not to blatantly bring up the child abuse thing although that's what's most vocalized right now.

Well, sort of both. I guess they could physically not participate in an activity that's against the principles of the religion or whatever they happen to believe in. To think that at the last minute you have a choice of saying that something was bad and you aren't going to do it anymore just to get the reward is even more messed up thinking. (One of the biggest things I have against catholics.) If the heart isn't sincere about it it's always going to be like a monkey on their back.
I think soul and conscience have a lot in common, too, if they aren't one and the same. I think it goes beyond death though.

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http://www.hofesh.org.il/articles/s...n-evolution.jpg

We are the most advanced being on the plant scientificly speaking. If you are talking about spiritualy in touch with nature, well thats just stupid.

We have things like ego and greed because we are so advanced, unfourtantly that is also our downfall, we know more than instinct

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That's why religion is WEAK....

their god will forgive them.

Well the thing is, religious or not...a person is capable of committing such acts. The idea of faith being put in place helps some people deal with what they have done, in the same way saying someone has gone to heaven helps with the grieving process (or even, "the serial killer is in hell now", 'revenge' helps with the grieving process.....which, again, is all just conscience coming to terms with what has happened. Religion tries to put forth it's own ideas about what humanity and existance is which is why we have what we have today, anything goes wrong they'll mask it with repentance, penance etc.etc.etc.

If science came first, would you believe in a God?

On another note, what does actually happen to someone who has no religious faith? Does it mean they go to hell for shunning a God? It can't because it contradicts itself, like being blasphemous would if you don't believe in something...it's just your opinion (or fact even). There are too many arguements against an afterlife that ring true, none for that hold any basis of reality.

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speaking of religion, you guys should have read this little comic book thing i found on the ground. it's like a religious pamphlet that teaches kids about religion in the form on comics. It's fucked up, to say the least. It starts out with an orphan Islamic kid and how they raise him to be a suicide bomber. They promise him a pearl house and 70 beatiful virgins if he blows himself up and kills "the infidels". Someone tries to teach him about jesus, but he doesn't listen and goes through with the bombing. then in heaven, jesus tells him he is to suffer in hell with muhammed then it goes on to say that all Islams burn in a lake of fire for eternity. then on the last page it gives a prayer to say and it says "god, thank you for showing me what you think of Islams. i reject them too!." I couldn't believe they actually let kids read this shit, it's not only brainwashing them, but it's also teaching them racism

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I've seen the "ROCK MUSIC IS BAD" one on the internet somewhere....

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I have one...has a cartoon Satan and warns of the evils of Rock music, Temptations of the flesh, and not respecting ones parents.

It warns...Satan is waiting for them and shows a red guy with a pitchfork and pointy tail laughing in the flames.

Looks like 70's graphics.


And Sars....again, Well said!

Who knows...we all just may become drifting souls, but its alot more happy that way than being alive.

Niether Christianity or Satanism make sense to me. I geuss I would be buddhist if I were forced to choose a religion.