I find that when I'm playing DM or BM on guitar, I like to pick the strings harder to express more aggression, to the point where they've been plucked and start to rattle. It doesn't sound good, especially when the strings start to go out of tune. And it doesn't really add much aggression to the sound of the guitar. With guitar it feels like I have to be calm and not get into the music as much or it will sound like crap, that a robotic technique is more important than expression and that the amp adds all the aggression needed. Like I have to pick gently to play properly, so the pick slides over the strings nicely without accentuating any note. I can't really enjoy playing DM or BM music because of this, as I naturally like to convert the aggressive nature of parts of the songs into my picking technique, which doesn't translate into a more aggressive sound. I find that guitar just doesn't cut it, unless I'm playing something more melodic in the high end with string bends and vibrato etc, or if I'm playing acoustic arpeggio's (both are a different aesthetic altogether).

When I think about bass, I have the impression that it's more expressive. That picking harder or softer actually expresses and accentuates notes better than guitar, and that the fatter notes give it a more expressive character that's more enjoyable when playing alone. I also have the impression that bass is more versatile, since fingerpicking an electric bass is as valid a technique as using a pick (and vica versa), and that bass can be used in more styles of music.

Is this correct? The only experience I have with bass, is the bass emulator on my gnx3, which is a piece of crap.

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you are somewhat correct in that, the strength in which you pick does change the sound of the bass, but from experience I've found that picking really hard gives it a kind of pull/slap sound, which doesn't fit in very well in BM (what I play) unless you play it really really fast and with high tones almost maxed out.

but of course, everyone has a different opinion.. this is just my own from experience, I'm sure others can give you better orientation than me

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I just have to say three things.

1) Get yourself a new guitar.

2) Play it right. You don't go running cars into trees do you? So why would you treat a guitar so bad.

3) Pick? Bass?

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It might make it clank too, either against the pickups or the frets, which I've heard a lot in heavy music. Guitar just seems like a finicky girly instrument because it doesn't let me abuse it as much as I want to, you know? I might just order a Cort B5 and give it a go.

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Play bass. It's more fun.
But really, I love picking aggresively for certain types of music, although I've never tried BM or DM. Listen to Tool's frist two albums if you want a great example of aggresive picking.

Wow, this really did miss the point.
1) A new guitar isn't going to let me play harder or more aggressive, like I want to.
2) Why should I play guitar right when my playing style leans more towards bass?
3) I don't know if I can say I'm suprised at this comment, but it's usually made by non-metal bassists or noobs. This comment really invalidated your post.

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I was thinking more along the lines of Deicide. But I'll dig up some tool a friend sent me and have a listen anyway. I was recently learning some Deicide and was unsatisfied with the role of the guitars.

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Well maybe you should try out bass, even though bassists arent really violent when picking either.
I can understand that it would be hard to play agressively while playing DM, because its so technical you dont really get time to do anything special. But i cant see why you want to be agressive while playing anyway, maybe you should practise growling/playing, that would be a good way to release agression...



either that, or take up boxing.

If you are talking about playing agressively to look 'cool', well i think the easier you make it look, the cooler you are

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haha

Yeah, growling is an idea, although hard to do when playing technical (at least now without extensive practice), but good idea.

Maybe I'm just attracted to the fat low-end more, and the clanky top end you find in early Deicide albums, and that's why I think it's more expressive.

In a few weeks I'll try out bass and if I don't like it, I'll get a sound module for my midi controller instead. Although eventually I will want a bass, as the non-metal music I want to create will involve a bass.

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using a pick on a bass should make u feel dirty and make u look un professional. and show u have no dignity for u and ur bass. its a punishable crime of death.

a lot of people play bass with a pick...

Correction, a lot of ex-guitarists play bass with a pick. (Read: Metal bassists) There is a difference.

And to the threadstarter, playing a bass aggressivly will fuck you over just as much as playing guitar aggressivly will. Either way your a dumbfuck for treating instruments badly. If you really want to take out aggression, go headbutt the sidewalk repeatedly.

And at YJM04, as gay as all those smilies were, I agree 100%

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ex-guitarists aren't people?

who's the biggest sucess story that plays a bass with a pick.... slipknot?

ex-guitarists dont count as bassists.

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if u wanna play violently at ur guitar. start playing flamecio.
rasgueado, is what i suggest u start practicing to give ur guitar a more violent and non-slapback sound.
so just because u cant get angry with ur guitar doesnt mean u have to quit. just look at differnt genre's and which ever is right for u to play/listen to then play it.
and if ur gonna whine that u only like metal then mix the two genre's together. for a more enjoyable playing experince

Paul D'Amour/Justin Chancellor. Rex Brown . Jason Newstead. Others I don't really know or care. Playing with a pick or with fingers doesn't make any difference in skill or ability, it's just preference.

i would've said stu hamn, but ok

And it just depends on style. Doesn't Glen Benton use a pick too? I thought the people here were more grown up, my apologies.

I'm not an ex-guitarist, if you were thinking that.

Using 'u' and 'ur' makes you look unprofessional and shows that you have no dignity for yourself and the english language.

And I didn't realise that picking a string hard qualified as treating instruments badly. Damn, I hope my guitar doesn't suddenly fall apart. Thanks!

Anyway, this thread has been fucked over with inflamatory, useless posts. Thanks to those who actually made a helpful post.

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slipped my mind, but yeah he kicks ass.

I agree.

Paul McCartney.



Jason Newsted ....


Carol Kaye .....


Christ Squire ...


Mike Watt ...


Bobby Vega ...


Steve Swallow ...


Joe Osborn ...


Lemmy ...

Tom Araya ?

A local bassist I know who can rip through any Cannibal Corpse song ( yes ANY ) with fingerstyle ( the three finger technique attributed to players such as Alex Webster and Billy Sheehan ), now prefers to play with a pick "for the attack". And no, he's never played guitar.

Or maybe I could learn from this logic you've posited ... Alright. Stanley Jordan, Jeff Beck, and Mark Knopfler are not real modern electric guitarists because they prefer not to use plectrums. Its all so clear now !

Koffin Kats?

finger playing rules

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First of all: Hahahahahahahahahahaha

Secondly, you can slam the hell out of guitar strings and still produce the right sound. Which is probably why Tulvox told you to get a new guitar, or at least a new pick attack. Go get the Music of Mass Destruction DVD and look at how Scott and Rob hit their strings during mosh riffs and repeat what you said about mash picking. It can be done. Just apparently not by you.

Thirdly, a lot of real bassists play pick. Cut out the close-minded circle-jerk.

Finaly: h, a, and other letters to that effect.

Of course you can technically mash pick, but what I dislike is the sound I get from it. It's not the 'right' sound, because I don't like it. Just because a shitty band like Anthrax does it, doesn't mean I like it. It doesn't satisfy me.

I didn't really expect this level of assholishness. It's reminiscent of low self-esteemed 15 year olds. I post some questions on a bass forum to try to understand a little about it and I get one idiot insulting me for suggesting the use of a pick, and another idiot laughing at me because I don't like the sound of mashing guitar strings. It's like recess time at a primary school.

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give me ur god damn lunch money

You need a good ass reaming. With a baseball bat wraped in barbed wire.

Why do you think your guitar makes that clanky sound? Because you play it like shit. Why do you think you can smash the hell out of your strings and still expect it to sound good? And more importantly, why do you expect a bass to sound good played like that? Assfuck.

And at John Holland, apart from Stu Hamm, none of those bassist are remotly interesting. (Ha, and you didn't even mention Stu Hamm)

Also, PST, there may be a lot of pick guitarists, but none of them are innovative. (With the above exception) They just follow what the guitar plays.

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I truly am primarily a guitarist. . . but whenever I play bass I love using my fingers. . . whenever I took a bassist under my wing he got a little bit intimidated because I tend to Martin Mendez the mother fucker(yeah, Martin is the guy from Opeth). Anyways, neither way is picking truly cool. . . I do a lot of fingerstyle on regular guitar and I do a lot of fingerstyle on bass. . . but I use pick on both just the same. . . . just whatever compliments the mood already given by the music itself. . . . I mean if I'm doing something that I'm wanting a jazzy type feel or a heavy(metal) jazzy type feel I use finger style. . . . but if I am doing something heavy type feel. . . . .all around I use pick. . . . on bass I do prefer a lot of fingerpicking. . . . on guitar I prefer using a pick maybe I'm just weird and maybe it is hard to explain but eh, I love playing and experimenting so I just go for what sounds the best to me.

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I meant you could do it without it sounding bad. There are a lot of examples of this, one of them being the one I cited. If you had listened to it instead of saying 'WAH! ANTHRAX SUCKS!', maybe you would've heard that they mash and it sounds fine. So, again, the problem is your technique, not the technique. If you think I'm saying that because I'm a 15 year old with self-esteem problems that's certainly your prerogative, but in reality I'm saying it because it's the truth. If it can be done, but you can't do it, it's your own fault.

Paul McCartney changed the face of rock bass. Anybody who fails to appreciate that's got a problem, and anybody who doesn't consider that 'changing the face of rock bass' innovative needs a reality check. Also, he mentioned Chris Squire. Do you not know who that is? Have you heard bassists before the 80's?

Most guitarists are pick guitarists. And there are plenty of innovative pick bassists, though I'll admit that for the most part the best are top tier but don't change the face of the instrument. But that's also true of most fingerstyle bassists, so I don't really care. A good bassist is a good bassist, regardless of whether or not he uses his fingers. There are plenty of good examples of great, innovative pick bassists, and you're shutting them out by your prejudices. Which is your right I suppose, but I don't see the point of it. Good's good.

Chris Squire is'nt interesting

I'm sorry, but Tool? Seriously.
Plus, Stu Hamm counts as more than one person.

The guitar makes the clanky sound because I choose to pick it that hard and with low action. I don't 'smash' the strings, I just pick them harder. I can play normally, but the sound doesn't satisfy me, which is why I tried picking the strings harder.

I 'expect' a bass to sound good with harder picking because it just does. I've heard many recordings where the clankiness is desired, where picking softly and plucking hard makes a difference. I've heard other techniques that are used with bass, that just doesn't work with guitar. I would like to try these out.

To me, the bass seems like the meat of the songs I've been playing, and the guitar is just the icing on the cake.



'sounding bad' and 'sounding good' is subjective.

If you hadn't posted childish, disrespectful, inflamatory crap like you did, I wouldn't have posted 'anthrax sucks'. A simple, respectful answer would have been enough. But instead, you laughed at me and treated me like shit - this is why I said you're behaving like a 15-year old with low self esteem. Not because you said mashing could be done.

The mashing sounds fine for their style, for their music, but that doesn't mean I will be satisfied with it. Anthrax doesn't have the same aesthetics as death or black metal. When I do it, I don't notice enough of a change to the sound, and when I pluck harder, then it just becomes undesirable. As I said, it doesn't satisfy me. I thought maybe bass would.

I now understand why this forum is so inactive.

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Childish? Disrespectful? The laughing wasn't directed towards you. The laughing was directed at the mod who had bothered to delete a post I had made that was completely reproduced in another poster's quotation. Only the paragraph beginning with 'secondly' was directed at you. Nice try, though. By the way, an indication of self-esteem problems is assuming people are directing their jeers and insults at you when they aren't.

And by 'sounding bad,' I mean 'producing the rattling, out of tune noise you were complaining about.' That's not subjective. It has nothing to do with the style, it has everything to do with whether or not they're capable of doing exactly what you're talking about (including the whole 'translating the aggression' bit) without knocking the strings around. So calm down and either practice or give it up. It can be done, so if you can't do it, that means the problem's with you. Again. If you want to insist that it can't be done because death metal's so different, fine, but I'll still say that it can be done, just not by you.

Now, I'll expect your apology whenever you feel up to it.

A good finger guitarist/bassist tends to make girls happier though.

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Right, due to the similarities between a bass/guitar string and the clitoris. Wait...

I was just refering to the motions and movements which exercise those tendons and shit. . . not what you are touching. . . .(for bass) the big round long snakish thing. . . . Yeah, not quite female genitalia and if it is. .. you are dating/doing the wrong "women."

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once again if u want to get angry with ur guitar, start playing flamencio

u took my line.

You're very quick, blissy. In general, a good fingerstyle bassist/guitarist will make a girl frustrated with his arrogance and not happy with his calloused, string instument-attuned fingers. It's a stupid line and a stupid joke. But keep on with it.

damn that was awfully cranky PST

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Now don't try to make it look like I'm the one at fault. Even IF the laughing part wasn't directed at me, you were still clearly disrespecting me in other parts. It's also not my fault if it wasn't directed at me, because the way you posted it, it looked damn well like it was - You made no clear indication. Make your posts clear in the future and this type of thing won't happen.



I do not like the sound of rattling on guitar, but I do like it on bass - this is what I meant. You can do things with bass (that sound good) that you can't do on guitar. Once again, if you disagree with me, it's because what you deem to be a good sound is not the same as what I like.

I can easily play music when calm, and play it properly, but it's just not as fun and I don't find it as fulfilling.



It's a shame, because the rest of this post was decent, and then you just felt like you had to add this. You're a part of the 'pwn3d' culture. People who feel like they have to add these things to various parts of their posts to make themselves feel superior. It's like some childish game. I take this to be an indication of low self esteem. And if not that, then it's just a sign of degeneracy and immature social practices formed in the schoolyard, and transported to the internet.

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That has nothing to do with the 'p3wned' culture. You had a problem with me based upon what turned out to be incorrect assumptions on your part. You grouped me in with 15 year olds with self-esteem problems due to this misapprehension. So I'd expect an apology from somebody as mature as you pretend to be. You've got the same internet bullshit going on, you just add some whining to it; either cut it out or quit pretending you're superior to it.

And, again, it doesn't necessarily produce any rattling. I don't like the sound of it either. We're not disagreeing on what sounds good, we're disagreeing on whether or not you can hit the strings aggressively without producing the rattling sound. The whole reason I first brought Anthrax into this was to give a relatively accessible example of somebody hitting the strings very hard without producing the rattling sound. That's it. It's possible. The end. No need to bring in aesthetic differences or the subjective nature of opinion.

Has this entire thread been about the clackety-clack of guitar/bass strings? I'm surprised how far its gotten ... I play a seven string guitar in Drop A. And I'm a very aggresive player with a leaning towards rythm stylings. You'd think I'd be in clacket-hell, but strangely I'm not.

They weren't all incorrect assumptions. The laughing was only a minor part of it, and you're trying to make it seem like that's all that was involved. Your post was still hostile, even if the laughing part wasn't in it. Your request for an apology is just more power-seeking egocentric bullshit and I'm not going to fall for that trick. You're trying to pick apart my posts to find something that you can use to make yourself feel superior, even if it means destroying entire threads.

"we're disagreeing on whether or not you can hit the strings aggressively without producing the rattling sound"

Incorrect. I never said you couldn't play aggressively without string rattling. I was arguing that hitting the strings harder doesn't produce the sound that I like, and when I pluck them in order to produce string rattling like a bass, I don't like the result.

I'll let you have the last word, so you can feel like a big man. I'm done with this.

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Im not going to let this continue,

Closed.

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