What do you make of death? Do you simply rot, enter another realm or what? I think death is a great thing, I do not know why so many people fear rotting. it is not as if they can smell or watch themselves decompose, but then again WHO the fuck knows?

I can wait for death, I don't know if it can wait on me though. I want to find out, yet I have so much to do here. This is meant to be a serious topic, not a sad or dramatic one. A scientific discussion if "you" will.

You're a moron.

[premature edit]
I really don't care if that is deemed as a personall attack or whatever, it needed to be said.

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I don't own any of their albums but I've heard good things about them.

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im definatly not afraid of death. y some peeps shit their pants for it, i dont know.

i see death as a release from lots of bad stuff in the world
maybe its cuz of my mom that i look at death that way, she died of cancer a few years ago, and ive seen her suffer a lot, so eventualy she got a injecton to die (to say it kinda rude), she just couldnt tske it, and i cant blame her, its was rilli hard to see her suffer, not even to be able to imagine how it must be to suffer the way she did, so i guess death was a realease for her, so cuz of that im cool with it.

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I understand.



What do I make of death? Great band! Sorry that alo had to be said.

Anyways, if you can't wait to die I'm sure there are some here that would love to speed up that process.

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good band.

And I won't be rotting, they'll set my dead ass on fire when the time's right.

Death rules, especialy on Human. [/end thread]

Edit: The replies didn't yet show up when I was reading this thread. Seems like we think alike.

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ZOMBIEZ!!!one

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Because I could not stop for Death,
He kindly stopped for me;
The carriage held but just ourselves
And Immortality.

We slowly drove, he knew no haste,
And I had put away
My labor, and my leisure too,
For his civility.

We passed the school, where children strove
At recess, in the ring;
We passed the fields of gazing grain,
We passed the setting sun.

Or rather, He passed us;
The dews grew quivering and chill,
For only gossamer my gown,
My tippet only tulle.

We paused before house that seemed
A swelling of the ground;
The roof was scarcely visible,
The cornice but a mound.

Since then 'tis centuries, and yet each
Feels shorter than the day
I first surmised the horses' heads
Were toward eternity.

It can wait.

yep, no way in fuck am i gonna rot away in the ground

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Why would it matter, you're already dead. Plus there is the bonus of mankinds foolish tampering of stuff which will lead to zombie ragnorak.

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I told my girlfriend as a joke to cremate me when I die so I won't come back as a zombie.

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thats not the point, if it was then they wouldnt ask if you want to donate your organs when your dead

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I won't be rotting, I'm pretty sure i'll be burning.

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i wouldnt mind my ashes being smoked, if thats possible

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Hahahaha


Hmm death, it's probably like when you are sleeping, only forever

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Your the expert, are you not Mr. "I'm a badass undiscovered true BM god"? What is death? I'm sure you have no ideal so why wait to find out? Just kill yourself so that we don't have to deal with you any longer or are you scared to go to HELL? Then I will believe you are true BM.

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i never understood those sick fucks who freeze themself in when they are like 19. in the hope they can get back to life over 300 years or so. I mean, what if it can't be done? then you threw your life away litteraly when you were 19.I once saw it on discovery. There was this guy who did it. And he was 19 years old.


EDIT : The attachement is for jittery sniper to see if he's true to BM !!!111!!!11

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I believe it is impossible to be frozen and then brought back to life. Your cells die when frozen. The water in them expand and destroy the cell membrains. You can not recover from that.

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be ashamed motherfucker!

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Right, it wouldnt work.

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my thoughts exactly.

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+1

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Yep, and also I'm going to have my ashes made into diamonds. There is a place that does that now. It cost $10,000 to have a 100point diamond made but what better why to stay with the family forever You can make about 5300 points of diamond from 1 body.

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I think that when you are cryogenically frozen, you aren't actually 'frozen' per se, your are just bought down to a temperature at which your cells stop functioning. The cells don't expand, they just stop operating... magicians use this technique to 'bring things back to life'; They put a fly in some liquid nitrogen to bring it to a temperature at which it shuts down. They'll then put it on their hand, and go upto someone, the fly will start to warm up to 'room' temperature, and when it does, it'll wake back up and fly off - thus seeming as if it had been brought back to life

interesting, i nvere new dat

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I could see making a bug cold enough that they stop moving but do it for to long and they will die. People have lived nearly frozen and brought back, and in some cases it even saved them that they were nearly froze, but most times we just die after being froze or cold for to long. The cells deep inside the body have not chilled.

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Thats bizarre, and kinda creepy, I have never heard of that.

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Kinda a soul diamond. That why I can be with all my loved ones for hundreds, even thousands of years, as something pretty that will never fade or wear away.

Edit: This is the place that will be doing me once I die. Lifegem

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Yea, if you get frozen (in ice) you will die after while because your body will shut down various organs to conserve heat/energy to stay alive... you need to get something much much colder for it to not be damaging (nearing 0 kelvin i think)

Wouldn't it be nearly impossible (or at least extremely expensive) to keep a human body near zero K ?

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I would think. What about warming up? How would you warm up to 98.7F just as fast evenly? The fast temp change itself might have major unexpected results. Would the cells know how to repond after be so cold and warmed agian?

Edit: Also, there is much more then just heat involved with living tissue, and in a complex being like a human, there are very complex electric signals that work in sequence to control breathing, heartbeat, and brain fuctions. If those get fucked up then that person might die shortly after anyway.

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DEATH

Definite
End,
And
That's
Humbling

The great equalizer.

you make some really stupid threads.

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Yep, very expensive, which is why only the really rich get it done to themselves



Yea, the challenge is to bring the body back to a functioning temperature safely... i think they use complex artificial respiritory systems that they integrate with the body to keep everything in time and working. The cells would just be the same, they just stop completely when 'frozen'. However, it is the reversal of the freezing process that is dangerous, hence why i don't think they bring people back yet... because they can't achieve it (i think, not too sure on that), it makes for some very interesting reading material nonetheless

That's correct. They are pretty certain that the failure is in the warming up process.

Ants and other insects commonly freeze overnight and thaw out in the morning so they can get their asses back to work.

Here is the cool thing about freezing versus sleeping: If you were drunk, stoned, and tripping on acid when they froze you, you would still be in that state when you get thawed out. That would probably make the experience much more entaining and less painful.

Holy crap I live right near that place. That must be kind of odd for all of those people who wasy your soul is in your ashes. Being imprisoned beyond death.

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the only thing i'm afraid in death is that i won't get laid anymore.

I think Walt Disney was frozen wasn't he?

I'm an organ donor and I want to be cremated when I die. Just make sure I really am dead because that would suck if I wasn't. My kids have already said they'd do it for me. Dismember me and cook my parts in my ceramic kiln and then toss me out in the back yard. They're cheap bastards for sure. And then they're gonna make chili in my kiln.

I'm not scared of dying and I don't really care
If it's peace you find in dying, well, then let the time be near
If it's peace you find in dying and if dying time is near
Just bundle up my coffin cuz it's cold way down there
Yes, it's cold way down there, crazy cold way down there
And when I die and when I'm gone
There'll be one child born in the world to carry on, to carry on

---David Clayton Thomas (of Blood, Sweat, and Tears) good song

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what i think happens when you die... is you go into another state of consciousness... kinda like out of body experience realming...stuff....places....yeah....

now... these realms... i bet are where the stories of heaven and hell come from. because nobody can make up that shit... they have to get it from somewhere.

yeah im not guna get into all my mystical magick shite and chaos theory and all that crap that i read... but yeah... i think there is a hell...
i dont bleieve some big burly dude named satan lives down there to torture people... thats what we call christian bullshit.

my friend gave me a very good image of it... imagine a big fuckin volcano in the middle of a desert... with a city on the edge of the desert... and yeah ill stop typing now.

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Are you kidding?
People make up stuff 1000 times more absurd all the time.
Also...WHO is reporting this info back to the living....LMAO

Not one person knows what happens when we die...and chances are...you die...and it's over. Like sleeping forever with zero dreams...to me that is a comforting thought.

The one gripe I really have with metaltabs is that ya'll are a bunch of atheist bastards. I think atheism is a cop-out. It requires zero thinking and philosophical skills. Why has every culture in the entire world created some kind of religion? I think it is because of out-of-body experiences, ultimately. And I think everyone should try to accomplish one of these, and when they do, THEN I can respect an atheist standing if they can honestly dismiss it as shit. I personally believe after death we transcend the physical and enter higher dimensions. Commence the

Get on the ball, Mansley! Their albums are way better than this thread, but really, so are Jon Secada's, and Jon Secada sucks. Still, Death rules. Pun duly noted, by the way.



Yeah, I've never understood why people are afraid of rotting. It's like everyday, people talk about it and it's always "I'm terrified that I'll putrefy" or "if I maturate, I'm going to shit my pants." Personally, I'd love to rot, because it's my only chance of coming back as a zombie. I'm sure you'd agree.

People are afraid to die whether or not they are afraid to die. This sentence might not make much sense on the surface, but it takes a lot to kill yourself. You are instinctually driven to preserve your life at all costs. You can override those instincts, but it's undoubtedly quite difficult.

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Atheism isn't even close to a cop out, it's actually quite ballsy to come to terms with the fact that you don't exist forever and will someday simply cease to exist completely. Human arrogance creates the need to come up with an excuse to live forever, hence religion. Many religions also handily 'explain' other interesting questions, like how the world came into existence. Why, it was created by an invisible man who looks just like us, of course! And naturally, he created it just for us. Good stuff.

Human arrogance + human ignorance = spirituality.

EDIT: If you really think atheism contains no elements of philosophy, I suggest you PM that exact same sentence to PST88.

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That's cool dude...but I'd suggest there is no cop out for "zero thinking"
I was raised a christian...in a very serious church. I went 3 times a week for most of my life...and our church didnt mess around. I had freaking homework for Sunday school! I studied hard and learned much about christianity. It's only for this reason that I come to the conclusions I do today. And I never claim there is no god or afterlife....simply that man doesnt know jack about god.

Nice line in a nice song....
"I never hated a one true god
But the god of the people I hated"



oh yes...I might have had one of those out of body experiences once....but I was also tripping really hard....so who knows?

Bia, I was not picking on you. I respect your agnostic view, too. That is a nice line. Antestor has a similiar line that goes:

"Satan and god, the thought passes my mind
Heaven and hell, it's not up to me
If the Christians that I've seen
Represent the true God of heaven
Then it's not a place that I want to be"


Chris, I was expecting as such. I am not trying to convert anyone, as we all know how much good that does! In turn, you cannot convert me.

Wow, who wrote that?

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Well said.

Pandemonium...you ask why has every culture on earth created some kind of religion?
Imagine if you will....for eons, people laid simply by a campfire at night...looking at the skies and wondering about the amazing scene above....and these people that were highly primitive for about 95% of humans existance here on earth...had nothing more to think of than mating, eating, and simply surviving. So they naturally over time...and I mean alot of time...imagined the most insane stories one could think of.
These stories over time and have come to be known as....
Dudes hiding from God in Whales stomaches
Man walking on water
People sprouting out of magical ribs
Gods of fire with 6 arms
Sun gods
Burning bushes telling us what we already know ( people dont need commandments....our conscious tells us when we're being an ass)
and on and on....

So it seems natural and understanding for me to understand why people believe what they believe...and for the most part most religions and other lines of thinking have good underlying virtues and morals.
And the higher dimension thing you mention to me is as plausible chance as any other afterlife theory.


[edit]Soul...believe it or not M Manson

Every culture has created a sense of religion because a society is, in itself, a religious body. The sense of a greater being outside of but including oneself is always instilled by a societal body. Just read Durkheim; he can explain better than I can, partially because he's much more of a sociologist than I am and partially because a lot of Great Thinkers are much smarter than I am. He's so right that, even though the specific example he speaks about (totemism) turned out to be bunk, he's still more profound than 100,000 uneducated kids on the internet.

Incidentally, I've had out-of-body experiences, though mostly induced by psychadelics. If acid/shrooms is what awaits me when I'm done with this world, then it'll either be awesome or suck absurdly. That makes it so much clearer.

Were I to belive in a Creator-God it'd have to be that Gnostic heretical one; more a sadistic warden than anything else. Even if I believed that were true, it wouldn't change my attitude to this life; you only get it once, so enjoy it. Cunt. Otherwise you may as well spend you entire life in a small and unimportant Midwestern town worried about an evil Muslim flying a plane directly into your house.

my drummer just got the logo on his forearm the other day. He really likes Death, as do I. When I am dead, I won't have to listen to retarded people's retarded opinions. I practice both Asatru and Satanism. I carved a pentagram into my forearm with a razor blade at work, then carved a solor cross onto my bicep. I smeared my blood onto my assignment and my boss found it. She is a racist bitch. Am I not kvlt as fuck? Who lives in the Northwest here? We should go fuck some churches up. We Shall Kill The Whores Of Christ, Fuck Their Bloody Hearts.

Tell that to all those Muslims who think the only good non-Muslim is a dead one.

And it makes me wonder about peoples' thinking that so many people think that Buddha, Confusious, Mohammed, and who knows who else were all living, breathing people that were 'godly,' but they have some phobia about Jesus, Moses, Solomon, David, Job, Noah, and Jonah all they did.

Eh, whatever.

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in reply to the atheists are non thinking, non philosophical bastards rant...

i was raised a catholic... figured out how much of it was bullshit and swayed just to get more people to pay the church, became a satanist, and then dropped that because it had the same goals as christianity: to gain worshippers that they can control... but i liked their other goals... eliminate stupidity, ignorance, and quesiton everything... which brings me to the next point...

since then... i've been reading all that mysticism crap... and yeah... there are ways to talk to the dead, and you dont have to believe it for it to be real. think of it this way... if magick and wicca and all that shit didnt exist or work... then why are bookstores making shitloads of money off of occult book sales? hmm?

(edit) added:

yeah... religions have underlying morals, but it makes it look good so it can take over the majority, and therefore rule. because everybody questions the government and the law about its morals, but nobody quesitons a book claiming to be written by god.

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That's some interesting words right there. Strange that all I can make out is a little girl screaming "I'M GAY! VIOLATE MY POOPY PLACE!"

You are getting very, very boring.

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I have purposely overdosed many times. It is not hard for me to try to do a gram of coke, and die in the most euphoric bliss possible. I have also put needles in my veins, afraid of Death? I listen to it all day.

It does take alot to kill yourself, but that is you. Have you ever tried killing yourself? The love of my life has terminal cancer and about 6 months to live, she also will never talk to me again. With a thought like that on your mind, and your entire first album relating to Death, and love, and sex, and how it all ends up back at square one, Death. Death is the ultimate equalizer, ashes to ashes we all fall fucking down, and rot in the ground. When you are down in the grave, and still alive....your mind decays. I love Death.

Think I give a fuck about life? Fuck no. I want to be a fucking Corpse Forever.

Corpses Forever Chris, scream bloody gore. Metal brothers unite and don't get cremated unless you really like Phoenix Rising. Keep on rotting, in the free world.

Nice retort. One person has one opinion, we are all individuals, and no one human shares the same thought patterns.

yo jittery... if i didn't have a ran on the way, i'd be totally up for burning churches... but now i have something to live for

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Not every single culture had religion. Neanderthal man was probably the first to create a form of religion. Or at least a concept of Death and the afterlife that they thought might exist. Neanderthal man created the custom of flowers on a grave.

I fucking hate hip hop. I think christianity is a cop out, all it requires is faith in christ, whom in my opinion is a moron for dying on the cross. He died for a race of imbeciles who defiled him and Palestininian land under Jewish control. The god that you christians worship was originally Molloch, the Hebrew god of sacrifice. "drink the blood of thine self, and consume the flesh of thine self." Over years the religion, which is a cult and all of you know it, morphed into a more advanced form of mind control.

Christianity is a defense mechanism for Jews and Hebrew cults. It is their way of preserving their practices. I hate everything about it. Fuck Jesus in the guts with a chainsaw.

Jewish and Hebrew people were intelligent, among the smartest of their day. Along with Greece and Rome. Plato, the ancient Greek man considered every person outside of Greece a Barbarian. He was in a sense, the first to document racialist ideas. Many of the founding fathers of this country, who built it, were violently racist, and some were racially minded.

I like people of all background, however I want to keep my family my family and their family their family. I want to preserve Nature, and to me, indigenous people are a form of Nature.
The word of jaweh and the people of jaweh have caused grief throughout centuries.

That's why I don't think any one religion/belief is completely right. I don't know a whole lot about the Catholic religion, but I do know from what I know that it's not my belief. Same with Jehovah's Witnesses. I studied with them for awhile just to see what they were all about.

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Great album. Thanks.

I'll be in Oregon in late August.

I am not a Christian you 'tard.

you are now officially the coolest person I know, I mean, how can anybody be more cool then you? seriously, I wish I had a pentagram carved in my forehead or something, that would be so badass!!!

tell em i sayd that too

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Heh....too funny.
Seriously though...I'm DONE replying to the sniper....his last 3 posts are nothing but "Look at me" "Look at me" everyone.
Well....I looked and I'm done.

I don't know any Muslims....lol.

I think the reason (and I stress think) is that Christianity is one of the few religions that its mantra is to convince...almost force...others to convert to their way of thinking.
Most know about christian missionaries and the horrible damage they have done to 3rd world cultures. The way our neighbor christian try and tell us....frighten us that if we dont click our heels to Jesus....we're doomed. It's that arrogance that makes many single it out and give them the phobia you mention.
And I can easily sympathise with them.

all his posts are "look at me" posts. It's really fucking annoying

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No, you'll be sentenced to a circle of Hell where they'll make you sit through PowerPoint slide presentations of your own posts here on MetalTabs.

I would laugh my ass off if I were in hell and saw all his posts again

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The bottom line is this....

One can rant and moan about tempting death bla bla bla.

It's all garbage...you wanna tempt death...stand in front of a train or walk in front of a bus.
Fuck that..."I did this much coke" shit and "I do this dangerous behavior" nonsense.

Jumping in front of a train WILL impress upon me the seriousness of ones convictions....all other spew...attention whoring.

I'm working on it! Just waiting for them to come down in price!

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Totally agreed.

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well, it should be possible to get them for less than 7 quid

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Er, no. I hate it when they hound me so why would I become a hypocrite and hound them? Grow up.

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I only ever see them for £11. They've got 4 albums right? Maybe 5?

I'll start getting them soon actually, it's kind of been bugging me how I don't own any of their albums.

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Or we could tell it to the Christians that think the only good non-White is either dead or enslaved. Do we really want to play the religious superiority card? The religious are the easiest to brainwash, hence the greater number of religious extremists than any other extremists.

It's not as if any one religion preaches intolerance and extremism. Intolerance and extremism is only instilled via corrupt and manipulative leaders of the Coresh/Jones vein. Essentially, extremists comprise cults, whether or not they choose to look at it that way.

As a matter of fact, this is why religion is such a negative thing- because it is so easily corrupted, it is so easily manipulated, and it's followers are extremely easy to brainwash into soldiers. Once those principles are drilled into your head, you're done.

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Death is an awesome band! One of my favorites.

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Yeah and down there hell meet people more kvlt and more grim then he can ever possibly imagine. I once decapitated myself and smeared my blood on virgin goats. Im so grim and frostbitten, I could be a new Satan.

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That is your opinion. To me, you are unfortunate, trying to act all superb by making insipid remarks that are futile and useless. Don't waste your time on me any more ok? Not even one more remark, because I won't read a single word. My friend did the train thing actually. He fell asleep on them though, and waited for sweet Death.

Doing a gram of cocaine in one line is almost a surefire way to kill yourself. Once again, your ignorance towards the cold hard facts paints you retarded. Just leave me alone.

RIP Chris.

If you just dropped the "I'm So GRIM !!!11!!!" act. None of this would have been posted.

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I know this one guy...he can do an Eightball (over 2 grams of cocaine) in under an hour. Seen it many times.
My knowledge of drug abuse would astound most...that's a "cold hard fact"

Being a fan of blood and gore...stupid morons dancing with death on train tracks are among some of my favorite images to laugh at.
I personally LOVE when a loser commits suicide and I get to hear about the details...and of course alot of us know of someone that has commited suicide...so please spare me the "well he was a great guy and you're an insensitive person for laughing" tripe.
Heard it too many times and it has no effect....just strengthens my resolve.

[edit for below post] Mordor...agreed. They are not my thing either as I am too in love with myself to ever concieve of such a thought. But like you say, each to his own

each to his own, i personally hate suicides , not my thing

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Why hasnt this guy got banned yet. He has made numerous attacks on members of higher status than he.

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Like who? If he gets banned, he already knows why. I can tell you right now he hasn't been engaging in any personal attacks.

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my bad that was angry hobbit, he called Johnmansley a fucking idiot. but Thats not enough to get banned. Whatever I wasnt having a great day today so I tried to cheer myself up by talking to the metaltabbers and all I hear is Jittery Sniper screaming about his trueness and grimness and how being a corpse is fun, and Angry hobbit saying music theory is pointless because he doesnt want to take the time to learn it.

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Bia - The coke scene in Oregon's a lot weaker than in other parts of the country, hence the difference in tolerance.

Bobbi - Muslims believe in 'Jesus, Moses, Solomon, David, Job, Noah, and Jonah.' I don't know where you get your information about Islam. Or the Buddhism or Confucianism for that matter, since neither Buddha nor Confucius were considered 'godly' and both religions are atheistic. You know that the fact that we try to pass off our ignorance about other people's religions as indications of our own superiority is why these people hate us, right? There's so much absurd, unmitigated jingoism in that statement I can barely begin to address it.

100% genuine LOL on that one.

Like Bia said, i always pictured death to be like a long sleep with no dreams and all.

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what about ROFL?

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I haven't seen anyone troll like that in ages

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Wow. Owned. Well.

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Naaa...my ass stayed firmly planted in my seat. But I did belt out an audible laugh when reading that for sure.

cool I am needed in this world.

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PST 88- I didn't mean them specifically. I think I actually did those seperately, but in the same post. Maybe I wasn't being clear in my thoughts. There's people that do think that those prophet-types I mentioned were people, but they don't think people of the Bible were. That's what I meant. Not Muslims specifically.
The information I've read on Islam is very recent and new to me. The remark I made was based on what I'd read of Mohammed's belief. I'm sure not all Muslims are out to wipe out the population that doesn't believe as they do, but that's just what I've read of his ideas. If that was so the lady at the yardsale yesterday would have bumped me off. She was Muslim.

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That is actually the Hebrew view of death...

Death sucks--i'd rather stay alive, so I can watch [you] die.

PST....ha, I watched The Unforgiven yesterday, just because I remembered that quote in your sig. Mmmmm yes, so badass.

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Seven actually. The first three are my personal favorites. Spiritual Healing is the be all end all...

My pleasure buddy....

If every culture in the world mysteriously created the same religion then I might give it some credence. Competing theories is actually a strong argument against religion.

Most serious philosophers are atheists. Most serious physicists are atheists. When Einstein and other old school physicists refer to "god" they are typically referring to the basic physical forces which shape the universe, not some magical super being.

As others explained, religion is a tool for "explaining" the unexplainable and real science continues to discredit it. Nowadays religious people are scrambling to come up with crazy theories to explain why religion actually does agree with scientific fact and it's getting just plain silly at this point.
The lamest thing is the new religions that embrace science. This is just a bunch of people who are afraid to be atheists in our society but agree with the scientific community in general.

If there really was a god he would be fucking with us all the time and creating life all over the place out of sheer boredom.

On a sidenote, I laughed my ass off when I watched "The Passion of the Christ" and the Romans were making fun of Jesus for being yet another wannabe prophet and then after beating the living shit out of him, they flipped him over and beat him some more. Those Romans were smart enough to know he was full of shit, but created a martyr by taking his punishment a little too far.

But whatever you want to believe as long as you don't start any more crusades or inquisitions, etc..., etc..., etc...

This Death thread is doomed.
It should be merged with Obtaining Long Hair to make an
Official Obtaining Long Death Metal Hair thread.

Let me refer you to an Einstein quote:

"Science without religion is blind, religion without science is lame." - Einstein

Fuck off.

You got it backwards. "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

So? Everyone says shit they don't mean at some point for whatever reason. A lot of physicists back then pretended to be religious at times for political reasons just like many other scientists back through the ages with the Greeks being a perfect example. Most physicists who have studied Einstein in great detail believe him to be have been an atheist at heart. I realize it's fun for religious people to pick out the few quotes of his which appear to paint him as a religious man, but it is bullshit to print it out of context like that without his permission. Personally, I've never been overly impressed with Einstein's grasp of relativity but he was definitely a genius for his time and I tend to agree with those that think he was an atheist. The following discussion of the many supposed contradictions of Einstein is a perfect example of how little the general public really knew for a fact about him and his beliefs.

"Editorial Reviews

From Publishers Weekly
Given the voluminous literature on Albert Einstein (including more than a dozen biographies in the 1990s alone), it is surprising that so little scholarly attention has been paid to the scientist's religious views. Israeli physics professor Jammer, who knew Einstein personally, shows us an Einstein whose nominal childhood faith turned to atheism while preparing for a bar mitzvah that never took place. From then on, Einstein's religious views were a bundle of apparent contradictions: he corresponded with the world's great spiritual leaders yet disapproved of religious instruction for his sons, arguing that it was "contrary to all scientific thinking." He claimed that "science without religion is lame" but never set foot in a synagogue and requested not to be buried in the Jewish tradition. While eluding definitive conclusions about Einstein's deistic "cosmic religion," Jammer demonstrates that religion fascinated the man throughout his career, prompting him to publish articles in the New York Times and elsewhere. Chapters 1 and 2 profile Einstein's religious development and the controversial reception his ideas found with theologians, rabbis and Christian clergy. The more recondite chapter 3 explores the theological implications of Einstein's theories (Jammer does not exaggerate when he cautions the reader that this section "requires some familiarity with the foundations of modern physics"). Jammer's writing is not always as sophisticated as his ideas; he relies too heavily on long quotations from other sources and abstruse jargon. In all, though, this is a compelling, long overdue treatment of a neglected topic. (Oct.)
Copyright 1999 Reed Business Information, Inc.

Staff, Astronomy, February 1st, 2000
Nobody disputes that Albert Einstein was a genius, and the public perceives him to be nearly omnipotent in the field of physics. Because he had such impressive intellectual abilities that could reveal secrets of the universe, many people have been interested in learning about Einstein's personal views of religion. Einstein and Religion attempts to shed light on Einstein's beliefs in an unbiased manner. The book is divided into three chapters, one on the role of religion in his private life, one on his philosophy of religion, and one on how his physics combines with theology. Physicist Max Jammer spends a good deal of time analyzing the famous Einsteinian quote, "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." For ardent fans of Einstein, this work provides a fascinating look into Einstein's private thoughts."

so some guy with a boombox playing 'Symbolic' walked in at a certain point?