Could someone explain the difference when I hear it they both sound the same and have the same effect on me they make me want to puke. Except killswitch but even then only in small doses.

Umm, metalcore sucks and hardcore sucks even more.

hardcore = spawned from punk meeting trashy stuff in the early days, early bands like agnostic front (and many more), etc. nowadays real 'hardcore' are bands like madball, raised fist, merauder, etc.

metalcore = mix of metal with hardcore elements, if you want real metalcore, KSE is pretty well known but definetly not the best or anything, think Unearth, Arkangel, Congress, ZAO, Caliban, Heaven Shall Burn, Course of Action, etc.

then there's tech-metalcore, or mathcore or whatever you want to call it, Converge, Dillinger Escape Plan, etc.

Hardcore has many subgenre's though. (straight edge, oldskool, newschool, emo, screamo, christian hardcore, rapcore, etc.etc.)

that's the view of the average narrowminded metalhead.

the average metalhead knows no good metalcore bands. Most guys on here that heard of Unearth, Dillinger Escape Plan and Heaven Shall Burn like them.

I used to like them both. I dislike all hardcore now and i still like a few metalcore bands. I shouldnt have said metalcore sucks actually becuase i havent really heard alot of it. I like Glass Casket.

Glass Casket is pretty generic IMO. like most metalcore, which makes it suck. 90% of the metalcore bands are shit, though the remaining 10% is made of kickass music.

there's quite some cool hardcore bands but most metalheads never get any further then the bands they see on mtv (Atreyu,ax7 and those wank ass bands)

Yeah i see what your saying. Maybe im just hearing the 90% of the bands. I downloaded some heaven shall burn one time and it was alright. Other than them, and glass casket, i havent heard anything really good.

Hey Def, what would you consider Thrice?

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Crap.

Today alot of people think Atreyu or Norma Jean are hardcore or metalcore. This pissess me off, because they are not either. They are generic rock with "breakdowns" that arent breakdowns and are basically doing what glam rock did to metal in the 80's today to hardcore and metal.

Some hardcore is : Bold, Floorpunch, Minor Threat, Knife Fight, Alone In A Crowd, In Control, and Negative Approach. It is basically a much more aggressive sounding punk with usually strong lyrics. NEVER EVER consider trash like Atrey to be hardcore. I consider metalcore to be another way of saying crossover, because I feel it applies better to bands like Cryptic Slaughter than to Norma Jean.

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WHY listen to ANYTHING core when we have Death and Thrash metal right in front of us?

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Crapcore? Is that a sub genre of Rapcore?

This is all so confusing...

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As I was told once...Metalcore is metal with breakdowns. I think that sums it up pretty well. Also there are tendencies to go from growls to "singing" during the chorus. Hardcore seems all the same to me...never really could get into that stuff to much "whinning" i guess you could say. example, "You can't take me down, cuz I'm stronger than you" or something like that. Just seems like someone is always after them. Who knows.

Unearth - good
KsE - old stuff is good

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ah, Floorpunch is allright. you're naming a lot of oldschool shit there, like minor threat.

I can stand the tough guy shit like Madball and the likes. metalcore has a lot of extremes, from Dillinger Escape Plan to ZAO, it reaches a long, long way.

lmao

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nah. I guess they're post-hardcore, they're pretty progressive.

metalcore is not just metal with breakdowns, there's much more too it. But some metalcore bands are just plain slayer riffs with breakdowns, thats true.

metalcore is a blend of hardcore and metal, some bands take more parts from metal then hardcore and vice versa, the vocals are usually hardcore styled though and there's hardly any real solo work (some metalcore bands like Himsa do solos though)

Unearth and All That Remains are awesome, I think their metalcore

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That song "All That Remains" by Malevolent Creation is an awesome song.

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Hell yeah. I'm going to see them this Thursday and one of my friend's bands is opening the show!

unearth and all that remains are metalcore. I never thought of them as metalcore cause I thought all metalcore was suppose to suck and most that I've heard does. 3 good bands Uneath all that remains and killswitch engage only cause of howerd and his ability to sing awesomely. Those are the only ones I know of.

Thrice used to be post-punk or whatever.....then they started doing the swedish riffage thing....

I don't actually mind either stage of Thrice....A7X have the odd decent song....and as i listened to Atreyu more...i realised that they have none.....the vocalist is horrible

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Suck fer you. I hate DEP its just a bunch of noise and sounds awfull.

*vocalists, the drummer sings and the main vocalist does that horrible scream

I saw Atreyu a few weeks ago, the hardcore thing isn't my cup of tea but my girlfriend loves it, so I went with her. I didn't think much of the guitarists at all; Eighteen Visions were heavier live than Atreyu and 18v are alot more emo than Atreyu

i always contend metalcore is just bad metal, i guess there are a few exceptions

hardcore has a completely different emphisis than metal, hardcore music in the 80's was about aggresiveness, not skill, bands like bad brains,blag flag, minor threat, siege. crossed out set the tone for the evolution on the early thrash scene as being louder, more aggressive, faster. which led to death metal and so on, thrash tempo drumming and blastbeats come from the us hardcore scene only to be co-opted into metal, most of the bands that pass in mention on this forum have everything to thank due to the early hardcore scene, it set the direction on how metal was to evolve, like it or not, so the haters best check themselves

haha, you just don't understand them, I think that's most people's reaction to them at first though, so it's all good.

Atreyu, ax7 and eighteen visions are crap, that's not real hardcore, those bands are FASHIONCORE, with their gay black makeup and shit.

I've been listening to Gardenian and they sound pretty metalcore. If they are then they're definitely the best metalcore band around.

I saw Full Blown Chaos, It Dies Today, Caliban and God Forbid. They were all really awesome exept for It Dies Today. It Dies Today was kinda like emocore, it pretty much was good untill they started whining.

Good. Caliban has sold out though, if you like what they played now, check out their old albums 'vent' and 'a small boy and a grey heaven' those are by far their best!

When people discuss about hardcore and metalcore and whatevercore, it's always about the breakdowns. But I have no fucking clue what a breakdown is. Please explain kthx?

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just a damn heavy part where you can easily make some cool mosh moves on. if you have soulseek or something, search for xMaroonx's 'still believe in what has fallen apart' or Caliban's 'Intolerance'

My thoughts exactly

They're most certainly not metalcore, they're prog death metal. Trans can back me up on this since I sent him Soulburner.

As for metalcore, I love it if its done right. Like Def said, 90% of it sucks while 10% is great stuff. As I Lay Dying is still my favorite, so go ahead and flame me.

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ditto.

like some said, 90% of all metalcore is awful and the ohter 10% is slightly less awful.

thats my ratio for most genres of music within the context of underground stuff

What about grind?
Though I abhor the use of the prase core in relation to this genera as when refering to 'grindcore' I think of bands such as Anal Cunt and Agrophobic Nosebleed, both of whom suck more that a dutch prostitute when def is spending a night on the town.

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you have to have a variety in music.you cant be narrow minded and limit yourselves to just the blast beats,insane riffs, and fucking growls.glass casket,reflux,dillenger,between the buried and me, the red chord, into the moat, psyopus are all great abnds and what scene do they play in? the hard core scene.theres plenty of great bands out there .death metal is like the supreme guitar music but that doesnt mean everything else is shit.

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i think anal cunt is probably the anti-thesis to grindcore, most grind bands i know have more of a animal rights/left wing political bent to thier lyrics<but not always>, it really depends how you want to define it, grindcore is overall the main body of music i listen to so, the stuff i consider grind can vary in other peoples view. defining it is a little tricky

It's only a matter of time before FBS sniffs out this post and bitches about our obsession with labeling everything.

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I like Through the Eyes of the Dead and As I Lay Dying a little bit, the rest suck.

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I label fbs as an angry, angry, frustrated man.

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your name used to be lamb_of_god you fucking hypocrite.

Yeah, well your name used to be Andrew1331. I said that to prove a point. A point that... escapes me right now. I'm gonna go dip my head in the lake.

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my name is Eric

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All ____core sucks. Thats all that matters.

Not at all. But I guess youre too badass and too much of an extreme metalhead to say otherwise. ONWARD WITH THE BATTLE AGAINST THE CHRISTIANS! THEY STOLE OUR LAND!

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...and I label you a bad judge of character, sweetness.

The problem I have with hard/metal/whatever-core is simply that it undergoes precious little variation. Trawl through any decent review archive and keep an eye out for the phrase "Great, another fucking metalcore band!" and you'll see what I mean, if it isn't blindingly apparent.

In other news, this thread isn't even moderately annoying. Could undoubtedly use a bit less "ALL __CORES IZ GAYS!!!1111" but by MTabs standards, this is almost mature.

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I'm pretty sure slayme was our resident 'I hate labels' guy. I'm not a fan of them either, especially when they reach the point beyond self-descriptiveness known as Genre Name Game Faggery, which fans of non-mainstream music seem to adore. One that's probably the least helpful is the 'post-' prefix, in both music and academia, since most members of a 'post-something' group tend to resemble 'something' more than one another and are only grouped together because of similar levels of dissimilarity from 'something.' Goddamn labels.

Oh, and let's cut out this '90%' horseshit. That's true of every genre, and of music as a whole: some of it is very very good, most of it sucks very much. Anybody who thinks that some genre is predominately good should probably be restricted from passing on such a lack of discrimination to later generations. This is another big problem with the genre game: it's not that helpful, at least for me, since I'm more interested in good music than any particular genre, and only the exemplary bands of every genre are any good. Some hardcore and metalcore is bound to be good despite itself; same with death metal.

Recycle.

Been listening to Unearth's The Oncoming Storm all day. This type of thing is very definitely my bag, baby.

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FBS, if you like that cd.... you're going to love their older work, check out the stings of conscience. it's better. maybe less slick production but better riffage.

btw, zombie autopilot is fun to play, reminds me of some oldschool nintendo game!

Unearth are pretty good, and the oncoming strom was pretty good. I can't listen to it very long though most of the songs are boring. Zombie Auto Pilot was defintely my favorite song off the album.

because music is a progressing thing man, constantly evolving from stage to stage.

I used to have the general opinion that all genres ending with -core sucked total balls, but a friend of mine recommended Between the Buried and Me and I reluctantly gave them a listen. Actually, quite a talented group of musicans.

Between the Buried and Me are awesome. The sweep at the end of Selkies: the Endless Obsession was well brilliant. I've never heard sweeping used in that way before, and if anyone else has please direct me to who else uses it like that.

I mostly appreciate them for the keys and the drumming. Both are quite good.

I've been hiding this forever. Fuck Between The Buried and Me. Why? I am sick of people babbling how technical and jazzy whatever the fuck bullshit BTBAM are, and not realizing their lack of plain originality. It seems like they forget how fucking PREDICTABLE their music is. It seems to be soo god damn trendy today to be as technical as possible in your music. Of course, this technicality means to sound like you are playing as much random notes as possible, but oh no, that's for people who don't listen closely to the music. I will tell you what, when I want hardcore or most forms of metal, I don't want to sit there and dissect the pure "technicality" and "intricacy" the band members put into their music. I want energy, feeling, good riffs, and atmosphere. Don't get me wrong, however: technicality is not a bad thing. Look at bands like Hellwitch or Coroner: they are technical. However, it does not seem like a contest just to see who can be the most "brutal" or "fastest arpeggios" band, but it actually fits with their style. This goes for other bands also too, like Beneath The Massacre. That doesen't even sound like death metal. Fuck, I don't even consider it metal. It just seems like they want to impress everyone with how BR00TAL they can be. Fuck that.

Unearth is just shitty: boring riffs, drop b, *CHUGHGUCHGHUCHCUHCHUGCHUG*. Drop b is not good. So fuck them too.

Before you start flaming me about not going along with the trend, remember, there is no where listed in the rules that I cannot express my opinion. This IS, a musical forum dedicated to metal (for the most part), however.

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The only "hardcore" that is enjoyable for me is the actual Hardcore Punk movement in the early to mid-80s. Then came the wonderful, wonderful crossover-ness which just killed it all off. Hardcore tried to make a comeback--it was successfull, but went against everything it was in the old days. I think the more "metal" aspect of it ruined it for me.

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Thats because that movement was the REAL hardcore. It's "come back" is nothing more than a mixture of nu metal with tight pants and wavy hair.

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Exactly.

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kin,I wholeheatedly disagree with just about everything you said(say),but your right it is your opinion.But this "I've been hiding this forever" is just bullshit.You have said the same thing saying less in other BTBAM threads,OKAY we get it you don't like them.

And besides the fact that they are technically proficient they also understand the concept of musicality. They dont play random fast notes. Their music makes sense, if you catch my drift. If you don't, then oh well. Your loss.

Yeah,they do alot more than just dick around writing technical music for the sake of being technical.Just listen to the hidden track on silent circus.Its a song made to be funny,but the music rapes alot of other bands serious songs.

since this is a metalcore thread. I recently heard some Through the Eyes of the Dead. The song was Two Inches From a Main Artery. That's some of the best metalcore I've heard.