***John asked me this question on another post in a gear thread because he is joining the Air Force soon. My response would have totally derailed that thread, so I have moved it here...


Let me give you the lowdown of what I went through. The Air Force is reportedly a little more slack than army/navy/marines, but should be fairly similar at least.

Boot camp- First off, you won't have much contact with actual officers for a while. You will be endlessly bossed around by senior enlisted assholes who you will have to treat like officers and salute during boot camp. Keep your mouth shut and stay out of the limelight unless you are asked to offer something up and you actually have something to offer. There will be plenty of racist fucks, crying bitches, and total dipshits in your boot camp company to keep the spotlight off of you if you just let them be retarded on their own. Avoid the temptation to break any rules no matter how stupid they seem or how sure you are that you can get away with it. There will be people watching you constantly so it is difficult to even masturbate without getting spotted. The shitters will not have doors on them so if you gotta jerk off, go in the middle of the night and be quiet about it. The guys who jerk off in bed are always noticed and talked about. You will hear all kinds of crazy rumors like "they put salt peter in the eggs to keep you from getting erections". Just ignore all the urban legend crap and laugh it off. Do not fall asleep in class. During the first week they will pick company officers. The biggest and baddest mofo will be the Master at Arms. You do not want to be the RCPO (Recruit chief petty officer) in charge of the company. This is a highly stressful position and will be of no future benefit to you since you already have your school guaranteed. If you can get yourself hooked up with one of the other leadership positions available, do it. I'm not sure about the Air Force setup, but I was the Port Watch Section Leader. This meant I didn't have to stand barracks watch and during service week I did light paperwork for a dentist while the regular guys were all slaving 16 hours a day in the galley. How did I get this job? Simple. When the company commander asked if anyone was artistically talented, I raised my hand with confidence and delivered on my claim by doing several drawings for him. This got me noticed immediately in a positive way. Then the company commander asked everyone if they believed in the Virgin Mary (straight out of Full Metal Jacket, which you should watch several times before you go in) and for those of us who didn't to raise our hands. Out of 80 guys, four of us raised our hands. After much verbal badgering the other three pussed out on their stance and embraced Jesus. Since I was the only one who was man enough to stick to my ideals I was given a leadership position. In fact this position had already been given out on a volunteer basis to another guy before, but he was one of the three who pussed out on the Virgin Mary thing, so he was fired and I was hired on the spot. Regardless of all that, keep your shoes shined, your rack made neatly, and your clothes and toiletries folded, cleaned, ironed, and stored exactly to specifications. If someone else's shit looks better than yours, find out how they did it and then make yours look as good or better. Find out ahead of time what the physical requirements are for push-ups, situps, and running. Make sure you can do at least 30% more than the requirement before you go in (ours was 50 pushups, 30 situps, and a mile and a half in 12 minutes). You will be given a series of shots which will make you sick and weaker than usual. If you cannot meet basic physical standards, you can end up in a world of hurt. If you fuck up repeatedly, you will end up in midnight rifle aerobics and your 5 or 6 hours of sleep will become 2 or three hours of sleep. Then you will end up falling asleep in class and then you will get fucked again. Study test material as much as possible. If you have long hair, cut it off before you go in so you don't get pre-judged as a dirtbag. Like I said before, there will be a shitload of complete assholes there and you will have to keep highly disciplined mentally to ignore them. Do not get into verbal fights and under no circumstances get into a physical contact situation with anyone. Your schedule will be packed and the time will go by quickly if you study hard and laugh everything off. Just don't laugh at the wrong time. I almost got into big trouble by laughing out loud when the company commander was making an example of someone while we were in ranks. He pulled the classic "Are you laughing at me?" routine and I had to swallow my pride to b.s. my way out of that one and it was very difficult for me to stop laughing at that point. Odds are you won't be seeing more than a few of those fuckheads again after boot camp, so don't worry about making friends or enemies, just stay neutral. What was the best part? The gas chamber. That was cool as shit. Just try to position yourself in the front of the line. You will likely march to the back of the chamber and do an about face. The gas causes everyone's sinuses to clear out and if someone is behind you there is a good chance you will end up with large amounts of their mucus all over your back. Many of the other guys will be dirty fucks who don't brush their teeth, wipe their ass, or wash their hands and walk around picking their nose and their butt in full view of everyone else. Avoid physical contact with people and high traffic objects and never walk on the floor barefoot. There will likely be convicted criminals, gang members, thieves, and sex offenders in your company. Trust no one fully and don't allow yourself to become a target. When you get your first cash allotment from your paycheck do not turn your back on your locker without first locking it. Do not try to sneak anything into bootcamp that is not allowed. Do not let anyone send you anything in the mail that is not allowed. If you are sent food in the mail make sure you share it with people. If everyone else is going to church on Sunday and you don't want to, just bite the bullet and go. It will be amusing entertainment and will be one of the few places where you will see cute civilian girls during your stay. If you are exceptionally smart and have high ASVAB scores, you may be singled out as arrogant if you are not careful to stay modest. Basically, do not stand out in any way at all except in those ways that your company commander expects you to.


Technical school - During school hours and on duty days basic boot camp behavior rules apply. During the first 16 weeks I was duty free because I volunteered as a tutor. After that I was moved to the "senior" barracks and was made a Duty Section Leader which meant that I didn't have to clean or stand watch on duty days. At school I was the class leader which meant I didn't have to clean anything at the school. Usually these positions are given to people with seniority and I got them because my prior college coursework qualified me to enter as an E-3 instead of an E-1. Keeping these positions is a different story. Most people given these jobs end up getting themselves fired and they are replaced by the most "squared away" individual. Take nothing for granted. If you do not have strong math skills or prior experience with electronics, you will need to study your ass off. The course will be fast and will cover a lot of ground. We had a different subject every week and one comprehensive test for it on Friday. If you fail the test you are held back a week. If you fail three tests you are on probation. If you fail five tests you are pulled out of school and all guarantees are gone. You are sent to the fleet as a deck seaman and life is now shit for you. On the contrary, if you stay out of trouble, ace all your tests, and demonstrate leadership abilities, you will get some awards and have your pick of orders after school. I was in a class of 15 guys. At the end of school there were 6 fleet orders which included a 'C' level system school followed by a ship which was known ahead of time to be stationed in a particular port. There was one order for 'C' school with an as yet unknown ship depending on how you did in 'C' school. Then there were 8 orders for the fleet as an undesignated Firecontrolman (not good, but not that bad either in the long run). Choice of these orders was based solely on academic performance. Since I had the highest test average I got first choice which meant that I knew I would be spending the rest of my enlistment in southern California since that was where I wanted to be.

After school - Performance equals advancement. Advancement equals money. Money equals more guitar toys and such. Do not fall in with the lazy crowd who are just getting by until their enlistment is up. You will want to be their friends of course because you have to work with them and often times they will be working for you if you are a performer. I maintained my high standards of work and academic performance and was advanced to E-6 in 4 years and 9 months. Most guys take 10 to 12 years to do this. This is easy money. Rank gives leadership, leadership gets you out of shitty details and gives you more choice over your own destiny and workload. It gives you choice of good things like special schools which make you even more valuable. It allows you to reward the guys in your workcenter who deserve it and to fuck over the guys who deserve that. It is a fine line you must walk in order to be popular with the people you work for and simultaneously the people who work for you. Pulling this off was natural for me, but was still difficult. I had some fuckheads in my workcenter who would try to get away with not doing their jobs in the hopes that I would do it for them to keep myself out of trouble with my boss. Usually what I would do in these situations is gather the good guys together and promise them that if they helped me do this guy's work that he refused to do and cover for his incompetence or laziness, the slacker would get the short end of the stick when the next opportunity arose. These opportunities arose often. When my chief tells me I need to give up one of my guys for a six month tour cleaning berthing areas (including some of the nastiest bathrooms you've ever seen in your life) guess who went? Did he go down and have an easy time of it? Hell no. I don't even have to say shit myself. Word gets around fast. The guy running berthing knows the guy I sent there is a shitbag and being in charge of berthing is a very lax job with plenty of time to look over people's shoulders and make sure they do their fair share of the work. The funniest thing about it all was that at the end of my six year enlistment I was able to confidently turn down a $60,000 re-enlistment bonus knowing that I could get a good job in the private sector thanks to my record and experience. Most of the guys who fucked off ended up re-enlisting to support the family they created during their enlistment or to pay off debts that they had racked up. The other guys mostly ran home to mama. There is a tight group of guys I know from my ship who still live and work here in San Diego by choice seven years after we got out of the Navy. We watch each other's backs and hook each other up with better jobs when possible. These guys and their families will always be part of my family and vice versa even if we don't hang out much anymore. We have all gone through minor substance abuse phases, relationship problems, and job problems but we will never turn our backs on each other. The two things I fucked up in the service that I should have done were not playing guitar enough and not finishing my bachelor's degree. Taking classes while you're in is easy and basically free. It is difficult to get highly technical classes so I copped out because I was going for a B.S. in Electrical Engineering. What I didn't realize was that I should have just gotten whatever bullshit degree was available to me because that gives you the right to enter almost any other school with no problem and it doesn't hurt your resume either. If the Air Force is to your liking, you will have the opportunity to go Officer and get a free ride through whatever school you want in exchange for more years of service. If it's still to your liking after that you can retire at 20 years and have a guaranteed paycheck for life and free medical for life. If you get a minor disability (could be something as stupid as a scar) you can get all future college tuition paid for for your wife and kids if you have any ever. No matter where they send you, you will be able to play guitar and you will likely be able to form bands at your base of operations. I was in a band on my ship and we played a couple of shows out at sea on the flight deck to a crowd of around 400 people. We had some of the Marines moshing their asses off and everyone else was just dumbfounded by our covers of Slayer, Carcass, and Sepultura. I also played with another band on base and we did a few shows at a bar on the base. There were a few other different bands in our unit as well.

The military was a lot of fun, but it was also a living hell so I could not see myself spending another 14 years in it no matter how good the benefits were. I would still have 7 years left to retirement, and considering the experiences I've had since then and conversations with old friends who stayed in, I can't imagine that I would have been able to handle it for that long without going insane. Once you hit E-6 or Officer, it's all paperwork, management, and ass-kissing from that point on and you won't believe some of the fuckheads you will have to work with. I could write a full novel on some of the people I met there and maybe I should someday. The most incompetent people stay in for the full twenty because it is a cake job and it is damn near impossible to get fired. Most of the outstanding performers who don't burden themselves with families and debts get the fuck out as soon as they possibly can. A common scam that people pull is to get a fake marriage certificate or marry a friend. Married people get more money at payday. If you try to pull this off you'd better make sure it's a real marriage and you'd better make sure you trust the girl implicitly. You also better give her half of your extra profits. You'd better wear a fucking ring and you cannot trust anyone with this information. It is common for people's spouses to stay home while you are in the service, but you had better act married 24/7 and answer up as if you are married when asked. And forget about openly dating anyone. Go out and get your one night stands like all the other cheating husbands do when they are separated and pretend you're one of those bastards until the day you get your DD214 discharge papers in hand. That girl had better have a phone number that only she will answer and she had better be up to date on your "marriage" and where you are and what you are doing. Would I do this knowing these facts and doing it all over again? Absolutely (I wish I had done it). Why? I strongly believe that the idea that a guy gets more money for the same job just because he is married is total bullshit. These fuckers will also get preferential treatment a lot of times because "they have to get home to their families". Fuck those guys. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. I consider this to be justice and that money should be considered a scholarship fund for people smart enough to bypass this particular loophole. I love our country and all, but that shit just pisses me off and I have no respect for the people who legislate this kind of crap. If anyone reading this is pissed of by what I am saying, you'd better think real carefully about the reasons you think a married person deserves more money because you are kidding yourself bigtime.

On the subject of drugs, the military is zero tolerance these days. Marijuana stays in your body fat. They do not test all samples, so just because you smoked pot three days before a random screening and did not get popped that does not mean your piss was clean. People talk. People narc. There will be people at your command who are in trouble for one reason or another and can be rewarded for being a narc. You may find out who some of these people are after you've been there long enough, but it might be too late by then. If someone reports you, they will personally screen you and believe me I have seen this exact scenario go down multiple times. Getting kicked out for drugs is not as bad as they will try to tell you it is, but it's no fucking picnic either. I saw several friends and a shitload of strangers wash out for drugs and most of them had to run home to mama for support. The others had to couch surf until they were able to get some shitty job and eke out a living. One guy I know beat the system and got an honorable discharge because of extenuating circumstances and because he has a way with words and is able to manipulate people easily. Do not believe that this is anything you can premeditate or "will" to happen (not to say that you shouldn't try if you've been popped already).

I hope this helps you out. This turned into the small novel that I always wanted to write for people in your situation, so here you go. If you know anyone going into the service or if anyone else reads this and knows someone who is going in or is thinking about it, please feel free to copy this for them. This is all real deal no bullshit information right here.

Good luck bro...

you could have pm'ed it to him

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well, i enjoyed reading that, as i am considering joining the armed forces, so im glad he posted it publicly

yeah

you guys are hard, hard workers.

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thanks for that, it was a good read!

That definitely hits the spot there. Sheds a lot of light about what goes on in the military that people don't know about.

I wish to god I would have joined the Air-Force because they get treated much better than we do in the Army. We obviously have our fair share of shitty details...but that is expected with the uniform I guess.

There are rampant shitbags in my line of work too (Patriot Missle Air Defense....total BS BTW). Lots of lazy people, over-weight people...ones tha can't pass a PT test. You catch my drift, and it all falls down on the people that actually work hard and go the extra mile.

I've been in for 2 1/2 years now, I'm an E-4 and I could be looking at E-5 in the next few months. I've already been to the school I need to be at, but its not going to get any easier. I still have to bust my ass all the time, and my guitar skills are falling along the wayside as I go...which is really starting to erk me.

The military isn't for everyone, Rapture, if you are really serious about joining make sure you know everything there is to know about the job you are going to do...and whatever service it may be.

Do not just take a recruiters opinion of a job, because he has probably never done it...(in a few cases he may have) and he DOES have a quota to fill, even though he will say he won't

All in all though, I think the Army has helped me a lot. I do a lot of bullshit but I have built a lot of character/willpower/ and leadership skills out of my time so far. Its to easy really.

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Memories Boot camp was actually fun now that I look back. Nuke school was 2 years of hell, but boot camp was fun. It was hard but very fun at the same time. All the people that are not going to make it because of attitudes or whatever reason will be removed within the first week. After that everyone learns that working together will get everyone through. I got picked to be section leader#5 and was the only person in a leadership position not to lose their job during our 9 week stay. It was amazing I did it because I got beat on for laughing all the time and I had 2 dudes in my section that couldn't even speak english. They fucked up all the time. I got beat on lots because of them but that was just part of the job. They both made it through and could even speak english by the end. They worked harder then anyone else imo. The best part of boot camp for me was Battle Stations. The end test of everything you have learned about the Navy. Hard as hell but it felt great once I was done and finally had the title of U.S. Sailor

It is just a job that takes up a little more time then most during the beginning, but it seemed like the end of everything I ever knew in my life. That wasn't the case of course, because you can't take the metal out of some people no matter even if the hair is gone Boot camp is what everyone worries the most about, but it isn't really that bad. Make it fun.

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I'm enlisting in the Air Force Reserves, to assume a full-time civilian occupation after technical training ... I have an ASVAB score of 77, so I can have my pick of roughly 150 occupations ... I have'nt even read Kylito's post yet .. reading now.

ok so now that i have read this...
kylito were in the air force or navy? sometimes it seemed like one over the other (going to a fleet, that a navy thing but you mention shit about air force)

did those weekly test happen in basic or the school you went into afterwards?

and did you say navy boot camp was hard?? it MUST have changed from when my dad went. (late 70's early 80's sometime) cause hes always talking about how it was a fucking joke (speaking of, when he went in it was the navy camp right next the marine camp, and this one guy couldnt hack navy camp so he hopped the fence, unknowingly ending in marine camp hahahaha)

basically, im thinking of joining the air force sometime(my dad talked me into that over the other branches) to be a translator (for norwegian )
i know some but not alot, if you go in for that they will send you to school for it right? do any of your military guys know translators or have/had contact with them how did they like their jobs? what exactly do they do. if you become a translator do they send you to that country? if they do and there are no bases (like norway) do they send you to an embassy or someting to help out? i heard they pick the language for you (??) but i figure i already know basics in norwegian and i doubt its a popular language so i have a shot at getting promised that right?

also before you join your job is already determined and unless you fuck up big time in basic it will stay the same right? i dont wanna go in thinking ill do one thing then get fucked over

i know i SHOULD go to a recruiter for this kinda shit, but i know for a fact that they will hash out some shit to get me to join and im in no mood to fuck with those bastards ( i remember them coming to high school, they hardly knew shit and just gave the most basic and brawd answers)

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also what kinda shit cant you have in basic? what can you have?
and why should you go to church, they cant make you and wouldnt that be time you can just relaxe on your bunk?

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fuck the army. too much work and you have to cut your hair

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Sounds like fun, especially the part about not being an individual.



I dont know what seems appealing about any of that, but I salute you anyways.

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*snicker*

I'd rather eat one of my own feet than join the fucking service.

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haha fuck i would pay alot to see fbs outwitt a fucking drill srg infront of everyone!

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I'm pretty sure, that most recruits there will have their minds pulverized by the rigors of training within the first two weeks ( especially with the Air Force I'm attending --- its the nerds branch ), and attending church will provide some solace and sense of community. Anyone who does'nt want to take part in this community could be an enemy, potentially. At least this is how I predict it might stir animosity. In the Airforce you're given options of different religious services ( Wicca, for one, I know ), and I imagine myself attending Wicca services just for the hell of it.

I considered joining the army cause I thought I'd be extremely good at it, but I'm a musician, and I'd rather be in a band...I don't feel like dying either....

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The part about living in a free apartment with free internet access, free food, free clothing, being paid 2,000 a month with free medical/dental, being enabled to develop your musical skills with 8-hour daily practices over a period of 6 years, with said conditions only advancing according to rank and such ...

http://www.goarmy.com/band/index.jsp

There are no electric guitars in those bands. I could double bass for it, but I don't march with that, and I'd only be called up if they do a concert in a concert hall with chairs. Normal music uses basses in band, not flashy pieces like what they play. S'what tubas are for..

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I went to Boot Camp for rotc (before you go off on me about how its nothing, let me finish). While its anything in comparison to real bootcamp, it was a real bitch. Shitty food, little sleep, and rarely a second I didn't wish I was home. So I suggest anyone who is considering going into the military be able to do without the following things:

Sleep
Clean Heads (toilets, mates)
Hot Showers, if a shower at all
Good Food
Food at all (swear to god, I ate once a day, unless we left to go somewhere else, in that case, I ate like a starving african boy).
Your Sanity

Yeah. I've got great boot camp stories, but the truth is, I fucking hated it with a passion. Thank god I went, though. One of the contributing factors to why I'm staying out of the military. I'm not getting into the other, unless someone wants to know, in which case, PM me.

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Get a job

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the militarys not a job

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And why is that? You get paid for it, you get benifits, you get references, and you get something to put on your next resume..sounds like a job to me.

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He using the comfort of housing, clothing, food and money as an excuse to join the army... which can all be had with a decent job.

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that went over your head huh
bls-said get a job
me-made a smart ass coment saying the militays not a job -get it?

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For some reason I haven't figured out yet, I do.

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On what rational basis of judgement, is this not a job?
r34l BROOTAL m3talheadz don't W34R CAM0!!!!!! 1ONEONEONE



I'm not joining the Army ... the Airforce. Big difference. Disgustingly large, unquantifiable difference, and you should be reprimanded for confusing the two. For one, there is a threefold difference in base salary, among other things ...

Fulltime civillian occupation ( something like being paid 35,00$ a year for being a lifeguard, or 135,000$ a year for being a civil engineer ... just two of 150 examples ) within the Air Force Reserve ... even bigger difference. I've certainly weighed all the options with precision : The quickest and most economical way ( and no, I would'nt go to war --- infantry go to war, understand that ) for someone with a GED to leave a small town, with a more than decent job, is through this route.

Navy. I was in charge of our ship's self-defense missile systems, one 3-D air search/track radar, and one 2-D air search/track radar.


Just in schools. I had 36 weeks of advanced electronics theory and 8 weeks of system training for the missile systems.


It's hard for everyone in one way or another. It was hard for me to not laugh at everyone and to not punch certain people in the face because I was 22 and had already been out in the world. I imagine John will have an easy time of it if he keeps his composure. It is extremely hard for fresh out of high school kids who have led sheltered lives. We had two suicide attempts and a whole lot of drama in my company. One of my brothers was Army and they had a lot worse than anything I ever saw including a training death. My dad was Navy way back in the day and it was totally different. Back then the instructors could beat your ass up for real and one wacky punishment my dad had to endure was smoking an entire pack of unfiltered cigarettes inside a trash can over your head. These days if you're caught smoking a cigarette during basic training you'll be punished severely. Deaths for various reasons in basic training are a lot more common than you might imagine and it typically only costs the military $200,000 in insurance money.


That's probably a special case. For instance, you can join as a musician if you are already professional and come in with a higher rank like E-6 right off the bat. They even have Navy rock bands that tour around as good will recruiters and do covers of popular music. Translator billets would likely be few and far between and preference will always be given to people who are already fluent. If you are serious about this start talking to the recruiters now and keep working on learning the language. I doubt there is a big demand for Norwegian in particular, but by the same token there probably aren't a lot of eligible U.S. citizens who speak Norwegian and want to join. If they need someone and no one fluent wants to join under normal terms, they will offer large enlistment bonuses long before they go to the trouble to teach someone that kind of thing. Your training would likely be purely relating to military aspects of being a translator and maybe a review course to verify you are in fact fluent and speak the dialect they are in need of. As far as where you would end up, I have no idea. I'm sure embassies and such are largely handled by DOD or civilian translators.


You need to have your school guaranteed in writing on your contract. A classic trick is for your recruiter to tell you that you can get a school after boot camp and do exactly what you want to do. This is bullshit. And yes, even with the contract, they can do whatever they want with you if you screw up. Even if you don't screw up, you may not get what you were promised. I was in a "pushbutton" school which means that upon graduation from technical 'A' School I would get automatic advancement to E-4 provided my record was clean. Everyone who enlisted three weeks after I did in that school had that promise yanked from them unless it was spelled out on their contract (only two guys had it spelled out). They had to go to the fleet as E-3's and had to wait 6 months before advancement to E-4. This typically meant that they would end up doing galley duty for three months upon arrival to the ship whereas E-4's are typically exempt from that shit.


Recruiters have commission type benefits and other incentives which means that they will not tell you anything you don't want to hear and they will often lie to you straight out. A lot of the helpers at the recruiter's office are usually new guys who are still gung ho and they have no clue what the fuck they are talking about yet. They are typically grunts volunteering during their vacation leave in exchange for advancement to E-2 or E-3. You need to inquire specifically about the college fund in addition to the G.I. Bill because they will not bring it up. You need to have the college fund, your school, any advancement guarantees, and all bonus guarantees spelled out clearly on your contract. You need to know that even after your initial swearing in, you can still walk before you go to boot camp. After you swear in immediately prior to boot camp is when they truly own your ass. Our company commander gave us one opportunity to leave if we wanted to. Nobody raised their hand, but one kid went up to him 5 minutes later and said he wanted to go home. It was too late and this kid's life became a living hell. He was one of the later suicide attempts. These guys will try to rush you and get you to sign up and swear in before you've had time to think about it or shop around to the other services. They will try to push you into a particular job classification that they get extra bonuses for. Always walk away at first and make them wait it out a bit, but seem interested. Talk to other services and try to beef up your enlistment bonus. Demand a particular boot camp location instead of letting them pick for you. I was left alone with my enlistment contract and if I had been thinking straight, I would have written in some modifications and initialed them like "I can submit two weeks notice at any time and receive an immediate honorable discharge". It would have been worth a shot at least. Keep in mind the guys at the processing center are typically sloppy and in a rush. They are used to people following the rules and are not too sharp. Once you sign the contract, then they sign the contract. Once they sign the contract it is binding and I think they would be amused that you got away with something like that. The officer who signed off on it would probably get fried and a memo would be sent out specifying that these guys check for such modifications.

My Father spent 25 years in the USMC before I was even born. Lived in Okinawa Japan for several of those years during the 60's training young men RECON for Vietnam.

Semper Fi Mother Fuckers!
Oooooorah!

Peace Daddy!
V

thanks for all the info man, some of it i head heard before but wasnt sure on. if i do actually decide to go to a recruiter and shit, im bringing my father along, he seems to know all the shit they try and swindle on ya (20+ years navy, i think hes seen all the typical kid cases before)

ill work more on learning norwegian then, if not to help join but for personal gain aswell(which is the only reason i want to join, to learn it)

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You'd be surprised at how much information you can't find out about the military, from the military. Much of it seemingly operates on a sort of secret society format ... my recruiter demonstrated that you have to already be an Airman to find out about occupations, and typed in a password showing me all of them. Like the Freemasons

You can't have anything in basic. Whatever you bring you will have to mail back home upon arrival. If you keep anything and they find it, you are fucked. If you wear glasses, you can keep those, but they will make you a new pair of "safety" glasses and you will be required to wear those during boot camp. If you have a light prescription and don't want to wear them because they look gay, they will come down on you and make you wear them all the time.

Going to church is a judgement call based on how many people in your company don't go to church. Our company got a special faggoty award flag for perfect attendance at church. If you are the one guy who prevented this flag from being earned, you will be shat on by your fellow shitbags. Religion is a very touchy subject in the boot camp conglomerate and you should really avoid saying anything negative about it for your own good. As in my case, if your company commander asks you a direct question, be honest and stick to your convictions. As far as the other punks in the company are concerned, the less you say the better. If you disagree with them on a moral issue, don't bother to let them know because it will only make you a target in most cases. Even if it's just one idiot and everyone in the company is silently on your side of the argument, just let it go. You do not need a mentally unstable teenager who sleeps and eats with you 24/7 developing a personal grudge against you. Being on this forum you have the experience to see yourself as a newbie. Sure, everyone else is a newbie too, but don't stick your neck out. Other people will do this and you can just sit back and watch the fun. I had an ongoing problem with the two fuckers in front of me and behind me when we marched in ranks because they had no musical talent or rhythm and they would march in step with whoever was in front of them instead of marching in step with the guy calling the cadence like they were supposed to. As a guitarist I could not help marching in perfect step with the cadence and these guys would constantly be out of step and kicking me and forcing me to step on their heels and such. I stuck to my guns because they were little bitches and I couldn't stand them right off the bat. They were in step with the stupid short bastard in front and to them that meant that they were in step. If you watched our company from the side it was pathetic because the guys in back would all be in step but the front was totally random and would go through beat cycles like windshield wipers because the two jackasses in front were the flagbearers who are intentionally the shortest guys in the company. They would march as fast as their little legs could move and pay absolutely no attention to the cadence. It really would have been less irritating overall if I had just given in and stayed in step with the retards instead of the cadence.

I do have glasses, and for only 6 weeks I really don't care what they make me wear ...

I do know that in the Airforce, you can have on religious symbol/talisman/pendant whatever, but you must keep it under your shirt. You can bring one text respective to your chosen religion, if you entertain one. Electric shaver and such are permitted. Of course no entertainment devices.

I do take a prescription drug for ADD, Wellbutrin, and without it I have a hard time concentrating on anything. I think my recruiter ( Whom I've been talking with for several months ) said something about the Airforce allowing recruits to take medications such as those during basic training, but then again they'll say nearly anything. What say you, Kylito?

The military sounds like utter shit. I don't give a fuck about the benefits or money involved, I care about my happiness. FBS said it well with "I'd rather eat my foot...", haha. That was a great one.

Screw your inadequate and inane assessment of incomplete data. Due to the advent of digital entertainment and television, and large reformations in the transmission of information, mono-linear thinking patterns in many humans in the last 50 years have become ever abstract and increasingly disjointed, especially for those such as myself who are naturally bred for abstract and creative thinking as it is. Of course people 250 years ago did'nt have ADD : school children memorized entire pages of text overnight to recite them the next day. It was not totally uncommon to find people who had memorized the entire Bible, a task that would equate to superhuman potential in this day and age. As the interface for accessing large amounts of data have radically changed, so has the necessity for our brains to retain it.

Of the ten out of twenty symptoms required as exhibited, to be diagnosed with ADD, I had : Nineteen. Overprescription in many cases perhaps, but in no stretch of the imagination have I been misdiagnosed.

Do you even know what the hell Wellbutrin does? It stimulates the production of synapses during mundane and calculative activities that are of no interest to the thinking sentient performing those tasks.

And, its called a fucking CAT scan. They don't lie. Brainwaves in people who have ADD and those who don't are distinctly different, ask any neurologist.





Keep the topic on joining the military.

I do all that myself.....it's called an imagination.

What are you so angry about?


It's funny....I deleted my original message about 15 seconds after submitting it...KNOWING someone would take this personaly and be overy sensitive.

SORRY....and oh....I made my Military comment at the top of this page and was responding to something said about going into the military on drugs in the second post......the one over reacted to......LMAO

You completely did not understand what I had just written. That is clear, given your response that objectively has no conceivable correlation to what I had written.

I am angry that you would suggest my condition that requires medication does'nt exist, when in fact it does. Comparing today's civilization to those thousands of years ago to villify the taking of medication, and to invalidate the condition known as Attention Deficit Disorder, is blatantly stupid. That is why I "overreacted" with childish and overemotional facts and data.

You are correct on all points. I didn't think of those items because I didn't have any of them personally and intentionally walked in with nothing but clothes. I can't remember if you can bring any one book or if has to be a religious text. I did get into it with my department head on the ship over what we could read while we were standing condition III radar watch in the Persian Gulf. My guys got into trouble for reading weightlifting publications and I got into trouble for reading one of the Fletch novels. They allow naval texts and religious "bibles" only and that pissed me off big time since Fletch is my version of the bible and weightlifting seemed appropriate to me as well. As far as the drugs go, you have to bring your prescription and you have to turn it over to the company commander. He or a designated representative will issue them to you as required. My mom sent me some Magnesium pills in boot camp because she had just read an article on how it speeds muscle growth and I had told her that I was way out of shape and borderline on my pushups after sitting on my ass in college. They open and inspect all packages and I caught some serious verbal abuse for that one from a trained professional verbal abuser.

As far as the electric razor goes, not allowed in Navy unless a Navy doctor prescribes it for you. If you have facial hair issues like ingrown hairs they will issue you a "no shave" chit before they give you an electric razor. Air Force may be different.

That's all good and dandy if you say so, but are you aware of the reasearch being done concerning the relation between ADD medication and DNA damage? That's right, a new theory. Could be bogus, but when all of these people are (possibly) unable to produce kids- or able to produce severely deformed kids- all of these "misdiagnosed" people will be contributing to a serious decrease in the amount of members of the next generation. I cannot say that would be a bad thing, though, for the Earth's sake.

I totally felt that way myself before I was suckered into joining. It was a total money decision for me since California was in the middle of a big depression in the technology fields and my family was broke ass broke. After going through it all I see it as a long and insane bitch session which gives me the ability to land better jobs. Outside of the good friends I made, the world travel, and the two years worth of useful training I would say it pretty much sucked overall.

There are three basic reasons to join:

1. You are broke and want to see the world and party and not worry about bullshit like insurance and food and housing and such and you have a plan to gain worthwhile skills and get the fuck out.
2. You are broke and are socially retarded or an ex-con and need a faceless big brother type organization to float you through the rest of your life.
3. You are a hardcore patriot want to serve your country in any way possible (I think most people who believe they fall into category 3 are actually in category 2, but not all them).

I did have one friend who joined the Army for two years just because he wanted to get a lot of free skydiving and explosives experience for fun, but he is definitely the exception to the rule.

i would add a 4th type to it-people that want to use it to their advantage
i know alot of people(hell i guess im one) that joined/want to join just for the schooling then get out as soon as they can

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Maybe that's what happens in 2060 A.D. on your population chart in your sig???

The great Attention Deficit Disaster. Yes, that would be great for the Earth's sake for sure...

I haven't done any serious research on ADD, but my impression of the situation is that they hand these drugs out like candy to the parents of any kids who are hyperactive. Of course my opinion is largely based on the South Park episode which covered that topic.

True, but you must also take into account that medical technology has been largely inneffective for treating ADD for the first twenty years that it has been applied, due to its primitivity, and that it is no reason to criminalize and abandon the practise of treating the disorder altogether. Recent innovations such as Strattera and Wellbutrin are making quantum leaps, whereas Riddilin and other speed-based medications are the likely culprits of maladjusted seed.

Wasn't that covered in number one? If you can afford a good University education do it bro...

I'm not getting my hair cut to be in the fucking army.. and exercise, and run.. fuck that. and then go to war, because there will be one.. fuck it.

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And so many disgustingly misinformed people base 'factual' arguments on such a premise *cough cough BIA cough cough*.

haha yea your right, i didnt read the whole description

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will you people stop bitching about war, death will come no matter what i'de rather die in a battle then wither away from old age

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Will be one? We're in one right now. I squeaked in between the Gulf War and the War on Terror. My dad squeaked in between Korea and Vietnam. If you are joining right now and don't want to be directly involved in the war, go Navy, but have no doubt that you will be spending more time than usual floating in the Persian Gulf and you will likely be at an elevated state of readiness which might include wearing a hot-ass CBR suit all day in the hot-ass humid hell-hole that is the Middle East. If you want to go for the easy ride, wait until we pull out of Iraq. It will be another ten years after that before our country can afford another "police action". If you think you can make a 20+ year career out of the military and not go to war, you're high. If you join the Coast Guard they are constantly at war with drug runners and illegal immigrants and stupid people who get lost at sea. It is often considered to be as slack as the Air Force, but I would say it's a lot more dangerous.

Choosing a safe profession in the military is pretty easy though. If you are an aviation electronics tech in the Air Force for example you will never be in danger other than hurting yourself on the plane.

I think the point is that it's a battle he disagrees with. I'd rather wither away as a contended old man who lived life the way I wanted than get killed in a battle I didn't really care to fight. Conversely, I'd rather die in a war I did believe in than wither away as an embittered and unhappy old man. Don't strip either death of context.

There is a serious problem with overmedicating for ADD. John's case being valid doesn't preclude this, any more than the existence of overmedication precludes John's case being valid. There is a lot of misdiagnosis, but sometimes the diagnosis is accurate. So stop talking about it. (Though the claim that modern society somehow has less capacity for memory is ludicrous; our interests - and, yes, attention spans - have changed, but we haven't become idiots.)

Finally: I don't know any military translators. I do know a few translators who work for government agencies, and their previous skill in the language and preferences when it comes to language meant exactly fuck-all. If the only thing you want out of this is Norwegian, try a different way. I hear they speak it in Norway.

you seriouse?!
that would be the ideal way to go, i hear alot that if your in the country/culture of a language your learning youll pick it up 10x faster cause your imersed in it always and not just for a few hours in a class

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I'm betting on the Mayans for 2012

We could argue about our capacity for memory, but we needs to close the can of worms on the ADD argument before the worms form one big worm, sneak up on everyone and devour them with wormlike veracity

Damn, I love David Cross. Though the fact that you have that bit memorized is more or less my point; bits of pop culture have replaced the Bible. I should go dig up the David Cross thread.

And yeah, immersion's ideal, though if you don't actually learn it in a classroom your syntax and grammar might get fucked.

Well I know it is uber cool and all to dislike the military and think you are being an individual by not joining, but it is really just a job and a personal decission. The military isn't some big bad evil brainwashing monster.

There really isn't some hardass instructor that you have to beat at his own game or that is trying to brake your spirit in boot camp. It is all in your head. If people yelling at you fucks with you then don't join or listen to metal for that matter. There is no difference. You will have better things to do and worry about while in the military then someone yelling at you. If discipline is the problem then don't be a musician either. Discipline is the ability to over come your own weakness to achieve greatness. You will find that the personal limitations that you have placed on yourself will be harder to overcome then some instructors. You will have your moment to sceam back at the instructor anyway. Tell them that you are not going to quit when they stay you should or that you can do something when they say you can't. Scream your ass off at them if that helps. There is no rule about not being motivated. Tell them that you are there to see things to the end. They want you to become apart of the team and if yelling helps bring that energy out of you then they are going to have no problem with you yelling. It is like one long huge ass metal concert in a way. Loads of energy and insiration. Most people that can't handle the military have only themself to blame and not anyone else.

Navy RTC is no joke, but you are there to learn about the Navy and not there to be beat on for the fun of the Navy. Some say it is a easy and others find it too hard. It's all opinion, but one thing for sure is that it takes work. I seen even the smallest, soft, passive girls and boys go in and come out as assertive, confident, women and men. It is a place that people can learn about themself and better themself to work as a team, or just leave. I don't want anyone in the U.S. Navy that isn't willing to put the effort into get through boot camp.

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oh fuck no......they got you too soul
i really cant see how joining makes you a non-individual, i can see how you can think that in boot camp cause everyones the same and treated like shit but after that you can go back to being yourself

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No one can take who you are away but as a team you all must have the same goal and frame of mind.

Yes, I am part of the system I'm a war monger. I kill kill kill and drink the blood of my enemies with Rum while listening to Slayer all day long. Nothing makes me happier then taking poor, dumb, long haired, lazy, idealistic, know it all, hippie kids out of school and turn them into blood lusting killing machines with everything from nuclear weapons to sharp sticks.

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I've always liked to tell people that I'll be building giant nuclear reactors powered from the souls of dead Iraqi fetuses.

From now on, when I meet you on these forums, we'll have to have some sort of David Cross reference.

People will believe you too and send you hate mail, threaten your life, and protest you all for the sake of love and world peace. Seens some PETA freaks here are convinced that the Navy has been harponing whales or something lately

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The only thing I see as cool in the military is the chance to get your rank up really high and start working at area 51. that would kick ass. though, thats probably really hard to get that high, but it would be cool.

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PeTA ... Those are some vicious people. Truly vicious. Dressing up like chickens and cows and mollifying children ...

Are PeTA really petitioning the Navy, for allegedly destroying aquatic wildlife? That e is lowercase for a reason ...

Hehe, I hope not...that would be a pretty lame way for the human race to go.

I have been to the so called area 51's Freaking cool top secret stuff with deep underground bunkers, but no aliens All I could hear in my head was Megadeth playing Hanger 18. You don't have to be a very high rank to get in but you have to have a very detaled security investigation. Doesn't matter if you are the President; if you don't have clearence then you don't get near the places.

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This is absolutely correct. I have focused mainly on personal experiences and bad things to avoid in my previous posts, but this is the heart of what you will gain from the experience if you choose to do it. The point is if you choose to join, then stand up and face the challenge. I worked my ass off all the way through and I am a better man for it and far more independent than I was before the military. The biggest danger I would have faced in a war would have been Exocets or Silkworms or other similar anti-ship missiles. Since my battle station was on the RAM self-defense missile launcher controls and our policy was to have the system fully armed and the keys in possession of the watchstander, I felt somewhat in control of my destiny (I also got to launch three of these missiles at test drones which fucking rocked ). While you are there people come and go and your environment constantly changes. You have to learn to deal with what you are given and make shit happen MacGyver style all the fucking time because the supply system is slow as shit during peacetime. I also want to mention that people like Bia's dad love their jobs and they are damn good at it. I know a lot of guys who did the full 20 years and are outstanding well-adjusted human beings. The risk is that this something you will find out after joining. You cannot assume when you join that you will like it or dislike it when you sign up. Your future work environment in the military is largely not up to you in any conventional sense and is definitely a gamble. This is part of the reason you will typically be rotated to a new job every 3 to 5 years if you stay in. If you are in a chaotic and ridiculous work environment like I was, you will get to roll the dice of fate after a few years and hopefully get a better station next time.

I'll take a strenuous military environment ( although it seems as if mine will be significantly lax ) over a facist fundamentalist household that bans all and everything resembling heavy metal and censures all views contrary to xtianity.

my uncle could probably get in, he had a pretty high security clearance (he was intelligiance officer so...)

but yea man hanger 18 in area 51

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you just didnt see the aliens...

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No way they were hiding, because I was looking... I looked everywhere and no aliens

Edit: I would think that if there are aliens that come to Earth they wouldn't let us keep some of them. I think they would save them. Send in their alien SEAL team to get them back or something.

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alian seal team

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area 51 is too public any ways.
i bet theres another alien-filled base somewhere else which they moved all the alien stuff from area 51. Area 51 is just a decoy for the public!!

Soul, find this mystery base, and report back!

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Oh, definitely. People like you, me, and Soulinsane have clear definitions of who we are and who we want to be. You will find that you are not alone in the military. No matter how shitty your job might turn out to be (usually a result of lame managers and whiny bitch-ass co-workers) you will find at least a few people you can see eye to eye with and because of that the bad elements will just become a running joke and will eventually fade into oblivion. You will never see the assholes again and you and your friends will stay in contact for years to come and laugh about all the insanity.

And don't start thinking your job will be lax. Aircraft are the most fragile and well cared for systems in the military by a long shot. Pilots and crew are placing their lives in your hands and you will be expected to maintain an incredibly high level of quality assurance and attention to detail. The guys who work on aviation electronics are some of the most overworked and broadly experienced guys I know.

Yes, I just told my supposed parents the other day there's a very good chance I'm not coming home on the thirty day leave. Mad fuckers, they are, that they'll have no one to harass

The thing is though, I'm joining the Air Force Reserve, and I'm going to take a civilian job ( ideally a librarian --- I love books ), and that's where I'm saying my job might be lax. After I leave technical training, I'll be doing the weekend only thing until I get a civillian job ( and from among at least 152 given vacancies, one of those are bound to be open ).

Like I said, I have been in the 'so called Area 51's'. Many places exist that are secret. They are not on most maps and are surrounded with large amounts of land to make it harder to find. Look at some maps and you might see roads that just stop and there are no roads that go though a big blank area. That could very well could be a secret area.

Edit: look in the upper left hand corner of this map See anything? There are roads there but not on the map.

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i drove by that area51 during a tour<as close from the highway i mean> went to the roswell museum<most low budget museum ever>looked around up in the sky......nothing

i remember reading an article about the roswell incident that was interesting, it was an actual balloon test, thing is, when one of the things crashed, the military actually played up the UFO story just to obscure the fact they were testing something that altho was not of upmost secrecy and importance, still nontheless something they prefer out of the publics notice. the ufo story brought a little more attention than they expected, so they backtracked, admitted what it was,told the truth,THEN got accused of a cover-up,truth is the ufo story itself was the cover-up for the balloons, obviously not the other way around. totally amazing

im an advid reader of whitney striber and other ufo abduction book, and no, i dont believe in aliens whatsoever, i just love detailed,emotion long winded fabrications that make excellent suspense fiction, i dont recommend it to anyone, i just like reading the stuff nowadays coz i had a HUGE fear of alien abductions for some reason when i was young

You must have ADD because you cant read correctly.
I merely suggested it's been discussed by minds much more educated than ours that ADD meds are overprescribed....as much as by 70%.

I NEVER said anything about anyone specific......and since that was clear and you wanna flip out ON me over a statement......yes...I believe you are one of those few that cant concentrate very well.

Oh yes, since I can finish a 300 page book in thirty minutes, a feat that I doubt you can replicate, I obviously have a huge problem reading

Speaking of such, you deleted both of your posts detailing your previous arguments, quite charming. I think speaking to me specifically in your first post ( which has been conveniantly deleted for the purposes of argument, I see ), qualifies as saying 'anything about anyone specific'. You Bia, are a master of sophism and of fallacious rapport.

Whenever your statement is asisine, ignorant and misinformed, and when its about me, yes, I just might get a tad angry. And I think I'm entitled to that anger.

Yes, it has been discussed by educated minds, but don't rush in the results of that one study, as there have been thousands of studies done, with the great debate unresolved, by these minds 'much more educated than ours'. For every one study claiming ADD medication is a fruitless venture, there is another, by equally reputable researchers, championing its qualities, and you seem to ignore this. I've placed you on ignore, as anyone who insists on perpetuating such an argument needs be.

We'll have no fellating here, thank you very much. Although, if you do insist...

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Anyone that joins any armed forces has WAYYY more cojones than I.

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I probably posted here already but I didn't look to see. I just wanted to add that whatever you want to do in whatever field you want, try to get what YOU want in whatever branch can give you the highest guarantee of placement. Soulinsane and Walpurgis were very lucky to meet the requirements and get into such a lucritive and elite position and thrive in it. I'm assuming Soul' had about the same things going on as Wally. The jobs after their military careers if they stay in that field will be very financially sound.

When Wally was going to the recruiting center he talked to various branches. Most wouldn't give him what he wanted specifically. The Marine he talked to told him that he didn't mind him coming to visit him,but not to join the Marines. He said that they had nothing to offer him that would be rewarding to him.

The only other thing I have to say is what I've said before. You miliatry people and your families are a cut above. I appreciate all that you do to make us safe here. (Although with some of the stories I've heard I'm really surprised!!lol j/k) You guys and gals are great.

And if the rest of you see one of our uniforms, be sure and tell them how much they're appreciated. They are top of the heap.

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Do they need herpetologists in the military? I'm sure if they do I could make a lot money working for them than I could working at a museum or serpentarium or something. Maybe they need somebody in Florida to remove venomous animals from natural training grounds (i.e woods, swamps, etc.)?

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You know Chris, I have no ideal who removes dangerious animal from training grounds. I'm sure someone has to do it.

Funny story: While I was in South Carolina for nuke school, my command had major issues with insects and reptiles on the base. My school was built right on a swamp loaded with aligators, snakes, and bugs. There was small pond right in front of the school and a big aligator decided to live there. There was only 1 road in or out of the school and it went right by the pond. Well the aligator would come out of the water and warm up on the road for hours most days. This caused traffic to back up and no one could get in or out. On the running trails there was swamp on the left and right of the paths and you could see aligators and snakes while running. The bugs were the worst though imo. We were their main food and you couldn't go anywhere with out them following you.

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I remember Wally talking about that gator. We were hoping we'd see it when we went to graduation down there.

heehee maybe he'll see Bigfoot while he's up in Seattle. Yeti man and Bigfoot. Wow.

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That's an interesting question Chris. I imagine the prevailing theory would be that any dangerous animals in a battlezone would just be shot outright. As far as peacetime encounters, they would probably called civilians in like you. Maybe just hand out your card to the local bases so they know who to call...

I do recall a lot of weird things happening with respect to the public zoo animals in Kuwait during the gulf war. I believe a lot of them were eaten by hungry homeless people.

military service is no longer mandatory here but if it was, i would have no problem running away to another country just to avoid it.

everyone i know (aside from gun maniac rednecks) said it was the biggest waste of time in their lives.

can someone confirm this? I heard that if there was a draft here (yes i know its almost never going to be pulled but..) i heard that after vietnam usa and canada made a pact that if people run away to canada to avoid the draft, that the candian gov will help track them down and send them back. this true?

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if we invade another country there probably will be a draft, but thats not gonna happen until we can withdraw from iraq or afganistan,until those places are secure, there just has been alot of people gone awol in canada,people who are deffecting or whatnot,and knowing how tv news is so unreliable you cant really tell if this is significant or just some small number of cases as what happens during a war. vietnam was such an orchestrated cabal that people by and large sympathized with the young people dodging the draft, i think clinton actually gave them amnesty or something 30 years after the fact, most politicians found ways to get out of the draft, the whole thing will instantly become a nightmare if it happens, alot the democrats have been hyping this exactly coz it suits thier position during election time, its a card up thier sleeve

i'm in the military and i'll just say one thing about it. Do not believe anything you hear on the news.

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Just remember: "An Army of One.."

HANGER 18!

Sorry.. couldnt help it

And Soul.. the aliens are there.. just look for Vic, he'll hook ya up.

http://www.megadeth.com/news/pr/images/vic_papers.jpg

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A draft's unlikely. Also, Canada recently signed an extradition treaty with the US, which means that draft-dodgers can't run there. However, by 'recently' I mean 'a year or two ago;' as recently as 15 years ago there was a big legal battle over Charles Ng, and Canada only sent him back over because they didn't want to get a reputation for harboring serial killers. But draft dodgers would be in Ng's company now. Not that there's going to be a draft.

I think you can avoid the draft by breaking a finger, for a while atleast. or shooting yourself in the leg or somthing.

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You are correct; if you break your finger or shoot yourself in the leg, you won't be drafted. I suggest trying it. I'm willing to guarantee that you won't get drafted, if you break your finger or shoot yourself in the leg. Go try it. C'mon; what's some pain compared to avoiding being drafted? Don't waste time; shoot yourself today!

HAhahA awsome thanx D00d. noW i dont have to DIE

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just because you get drafted doesnt make you automatically dead

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What branch are you in?

You wouldn't want to break a finger and have it affect ur guitar playing, go for the leg.....yeah definately the leg.

Exactly.

And IF any of you do shoot yourself.....I wanna see pics damnit!

It just amazes me that people are willing to maim themselves for life just to avoid a little work. I could rant about dishonor, cowardice, and other stuff like that but it really doesn't matter since there will never be another draft. If it every comes to the point that the US needs extra people to defend our country from invasion of something, the US will just nuke the planet and kill everyone anyway. It would be easier than trying to get folks to defend themselves.

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go for it, join the military. i joined the marines, didnt even regret my decision during boot camp, its good shit.

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Nobody is going to shoot themselves to prevent having to repel an invasion. How would that even work? People are talking about injuring themselves to avoid being sent somewhere for another phony fucking Bush war or another Vietnam. People don't want to be sent to a foreign country that is no threat to us in any way just to die for some fucking fat cats.

I doubt you'd find many men not willing to take up arms if there were a legitimate threat of invasion.

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