do you think it is very important to learn a lot of theory?

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depends what you wanna do i guess, if you wanna compese symphonies then yes. but look at chuck he found it very boring so he never botherd to learn and he did fine without it

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I know some theory. I think anubisXy and darko know their theory.
http://metaltabs.com/forum/showpost...6&postcount=109

im taking a college course in it.

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I know a bit of it. Its good stuff to know.

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well

my theory on Music theory is as follows:

the reason music threoy exsists is so one can make Pleasent music.
so if you go one note out of your perfect scale and it sounds killer, then it is killer, dont limit yourself with theory, use it to make your playing better but dont allow it limit what you do

arnt you in high school?

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It's pretty easy to take college courses while in high school.

Theory can be important, especially for creating variations on a motif or doing work with more than one guitar. It's basically another weapon in the arsenal and can open the fretboard in interesting ways. But as Necro_Butcher said, don't get stuck in just one way of looking at playing; theory is useful, but not if it makes you afraid to paint outside the lines.

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Theory, I know some, and I think's it's useful for song writing and many other things. Very useful in metal, just as much as any others.

This is very wrong. I used to think the same way, however. This is what it seems like when you only know the basics. There are theory rules about going out of your perfect scale, and its very easy to use theory to write music that doesn't sound pleasent at all.

The thing about music theory, is people see all these rules, but if you only see the basic rules, you tend to think that you'll be limited to only writing music that sounds like classical, or fluffy pretty stuff, and that it will have a certain sound to it.

The truth is, the more you learn, you start to see that there are rules for when you break rules, and rules for when you break those rules. Every rule in music theory can be broken, and there are rules for how to break that one, and rules for how to break those rules for how to break.... ect. Its a complete circle that creates complete freedom.

The point is, music theory is completely free, its just a guide. You can do anything with music theory, and when you know enough about it, it just becomes like a helper, that gives you ideas, helps you fix things that don't sound good to you and stuff like that. Its really pretty cool.

For all the thrash metal and death metal songs I write, I completely use music theory every step of the way, and the results are awesome. I couldn't apply the theory to this "not pretty" stuff untill I had a really good grasp on theory though.

That pretty sound that people associate with music theory is just what your confined to during the early learning stages of theory.

i dont mean pleasent as in pretty sounding harmonies,

i meant using it just not to sound shitty

yeah, its a really hard course too
steve hears me complain about the homework every day

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I know theory...not as much as some yet more than enough...

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I'm taking a Basic Theory class in school right now. As for my writing now, I haven't been able to apply it much (nor have I enjoyed the results of its application) and its much more restricting. But, like Thrashboy stated, I would need a much broader knowledge of it to apply it to death metal.

I know more theory than anyone I know around here. I use it when I want to write softer stuff or do harmonies mostly. As for those rules to breaking other rules mentioned earlier, can someone enlighten me on this, it sounds VERY interesting?

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I know some theory, not too much. I'm taking an unofficial course on it(it's just an elective in school, where we learn some songs and perform them, while also learning a little theory). If anybody thinks that theory, and writing down songs in "sheet music" form doesn't allow you to express yourself, and get everything down perfectly, just take a look at Steve Vai: www.vai.com

He writes all his songs down, and his music can be very abstract.

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the only problem i have with sheet music is im not always sure how to write things and get the right timming/tune with it. i have written stuff out then givin it to teachers and they play it "wrong" i meen they play whats there but not the way i intended it to be

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Holy shit, that's one of the most pompous things I've read on this forum in a long while....

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When I said "around here" I meant in the area where I live! My friends at school and in the neighborhood is what I meant!!!

Still waiting for some enlightenment.

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haha okay....

Enlightenment..? uhhh, how can there be rules on how to break rules? That doesn't make much sense. Beethoven broke some theory "rules" in some of his writings, but those breaks aren't rules themselves......he was just fucking with it, and when someone would ask him why, he'd say something like, "because I can."

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Agreed.

Theory is important, but if you have a good ear you don't need to fully understand it per/say. However, even those who claim they don't know anything about theory (Chuck, Eddie Van Halen, Zak, etc) actually do apply it every time they write a song. That said all theory does is help you understand why things sound good etc. You can already know what sounds good without understanding why. Just like when you get in a car, you don't have to know about how the engine works in order to drive. Doesn't change the fact that you still use the engine to drive it.

Knowing theory can only help you progress as a musician, but if you're bored then whatever floats your boat. If you take some time and learn some it's deffinitely not going to hinder your progress, in fact it will help you a great deal. You just have to decide if it's worth the effort or not.

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i just wanna had keep coming back to it if you find it boring. i used to be extremly bored with it just learning scales and how shit works. but now im taking a class in it and i cant wait to get there i love it and its so much fun. i find myself working outside of the class often cause i want to further my progress init

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I wouldn't mind playing like Mille Petrozza my whole life, thats fine with me. What ever sounds good is good. But you do need theory to write like Alexi tho.

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Or a good ear and the first six or seven King Diamond records.

Theory never hurt anyone who wasn't irrevocably crippled to begin with, but it's not a magic key to good composition or a replacement for quality musicianship. I'm not trying to imply that anybody here is claiming it is, I'm just clarifying what I meant by 'another weapon in the arsenal.' AnubisXY probably did a better job of that, though.

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I just started taking Music Theory class not too long ago and it was frustrating at first, actually it still is, but in the couple months that I've bee taking it. I've noticed my playing has enhanced. I'm most likely gonna keep learning Music Theory until I die, there's just so much to learn. I think it'd be crazy to be able to write a song or at least the base of a song with just a pencil and paper....that's my goal with Music Theory for the next 3 years or so.

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i know some theory, but i am gonna have to learn it very well because i want to be a high school music teacher

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Theory is definatly important. I used to say theory would only limit your playing abilities thus making you a typical, unoriginal guitar player. But then I realized that if you make a song...theres theory behind it. If you learn theory basically it'll open your mind to new ideas. I hardly know anything about theory but I've been trying to learn over the past few months and its helped me greatly in songwriting.

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theory is a way for me to explain what is already in my head to other musicians.
i know some theory, modes and intervals but have never used it. ive never sat down and said, ok this next bit is going to be in harmonic minor with mixylodian undertones. I get the notes in my head for the feel I want without knowing what theory applies to it.
incedentaly, alot of my solos change between scales frequently.

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Sober explanation of what I was trying to say

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Real operatic dissonant harmonies take a shit load of theory. Hail to the synth players.

"rules to break rules"

This was a bad example. i'll try to explain better.

The whole rules to break rules thing is just a way of looking at basic theory when compared to a more advanced understanding of it. It was just the best way I could describe it at the time.

When you only have basic theory it seems limiting. But when you get advanced into theory you realize that theory covers any style of music, or any thing you could try and do with music. Thus, all those restrictions that you see when your just a beginner in theory... you learn that in the more advanced theory, it contains all the ways to get around those "limitations" that you see in the beginning.

Theory has no limits to what you can do. What it does is it acts as a guide. Giving you ways to improve what your doing, or ways to put your ideas into music that you just couldn't figure out on your own.

If you write a death metal riff and you just can't get it to sound cool... you have the idea in your head, but just can't get it to fully come out on the guitar correctly, a good understanding of theory would give you the tools to completely express what it is your trying to do by just going over what you have so far and checking all the pieces of it with theory and trying different "theory rules" untill you can get it to match the music in your head... As a lame example. :P

i started learning the very basic theory acctualy in piano lessons,way bak when, then now that im in jazz band and have an awsome director(hes like a hippy in a good way)he teaches us theory to learn to improvise.i think i have a prety good ear so improv has come easily to me but now i can explane the improv.put to words what i played

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OK Thrashboy. I dig.

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I know some notes of some scale I don't know. That is about as much theory as I know. I really don't find a point in it, and find that alot of people rely on it too much to help them make music. I know its a hell of alot easier to throw some scales in and call it a solo then actually to sit down and think of a solo with your mind. I do find scales useful for practicing picking and fingerwork though.

*cough* Retard *cough*


sorry couldnt help my self

i know some theory, its realy cool how everything fits together and sounds good, kind of like math, exept better.

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No, it is math. All of it is math, and it's not cool, it sucks (only cause math makes my head hurt when I'm stoned). =[

The cool thing about theory is that, as many others have said, I can actually sit down after I play something and figure out why it sounded good. If I tried to apply it on the fly it would be like doing an algebra problem in my head in the space of a second, cause when you're improving that's about all the time you have to figure out what notes you're gonna play next.

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Being able to count to 64 is not math, retards. It's knowing enough to be able to move out of your parents basement.

^^^^ Why does no one understand this^^^^

Counting is a mathematical operation, retard. I dare you to say it isn't as you quite clearly take your numeracy for granted. There are 2 billion people on this planet who don't even know what a number looks like never mind being able to count them.

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You can take AP Music Theory...Advanced Placement. Equivalent to a college level class (maybe a little easier) and you can get college credit for it.

As for is it useful to know Music Theory? We'll I don't know any Theory myself...but It would probably be useful to know. If you seriously want to compose music, it would be a plus for you.

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i've been playing guitar for about a third of my life... i've taken private lessons for several years, private drum lessons as well... i've taken several years of percussion ensemble and guitar classes in school, as well as music listening classes.
all helped me get to know theory... but the two years of A.P. music theory helped me the most... i'm going to continue more classes.
i can say i know a shitload of theory, but when it comes down to it, i've only scrapped the surface...
i can hear intervals,write and read manuscript, analize music, rythmic and melodic dictation, i know the modes, how to use them, i know things that cannot be tought, you just have to learn them... but out of all of the theory out there, i still don't know shit.

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I think what's more important than knowing how music might follow a predictable pattern, a series, in the theoretical sense, is to have an intuitive knowledge of the instrument that reaches to the subconscious. It does'nt matter what terminology is used, whomever has the best aural skills "wins", so to say.

If you are in a formal ( symphonic, jazz, classical, etc ) scenario where a common standard must be upheld to maintain some sense of order, then music theory is essential to sustain communication between the band members, or to a conductor to his orchestra, so everyone is on the same "page", so to speak. But in an environment involving two or three stringed-instrumentalists, a percussionist and perhaps a vocalist, boundaries dissolve and expression becomes much freer, because no regulation as to how music is conducted is enforced.

But ultimately, everyone abides by some theoretical system when playing music, otherwise they might be a completely abstract thinker, and play music that goes in no direction! Whether you have a degree in music theory or you simply play by ear, hard work is the key. Both methods of learning aim to accomplish one thing : To reproduce on the instrument what you hear in your head, thereby expressing yourself. So then, its simply a matter of preference as to how you learn to do it. Just like some children in school learn much more efficiently by reading something, as opposed to having it orated to them, or as opposed to having it shown to them in images, so is learning how to express yourself with music.

If I'm not mistaken, Paul McCartney worked with an orchestra and produced an illustrious work ... but he does'nt know how to read sheet at all. He just simply dictated to the musicians what he wanted, and managed them to synchronise their efforts ... I can't say whether or not it was more efficient, but it goes to show it can be done.

Another method of "sheet-less" orchestration is Brian May layering, layering, and layering some more with guitar tracks. With the advent of multi-track modern studio technology, some proficiency with recording equipment supplied by one person who is adept at several instruments ( or at instrumental synthesis ) can produce an orchestration, with it going straight to record. The wonders of modern technology!

I know some theory but maybe not as much as I'd like. I learnt to play guitar without it but I am catching up now.

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I know some, and I plan on learning more. As a matter of fact, I feel motivated right now to do so.

Paul McCarthy was able to do that because of people in the orchestra or someone else "translating" into music theory for him. I gurantee if you get that many people together and no one knows music theory, your NOT getting an orchestra peice out of it that will sound decent

And of course you can write good music without music theory, just like you can write a great novel without taking any writing classes, or paint a great painting without ever taking an art class......... but it helps.

No theory for me, I seem to get by without it much better than those I know who take lessons and study theory. I could benefit from it though, no doubt that I will someday learn some theory. For now I just play alot and write alot of songs.

That was a BIG boo boo.

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It almost looks like he doesn't even know who The Beetles are

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Duh ya idiot, beatles are insects. Jeez you people are stupid.

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Well, music theory is helpful for me when I try to play piano. I have a pretty good grasp on chords and scale theory so translating them to piano is fairly straightforward.

Also, if I'm on the phone with my buddy, I can ask him about a particular piece of a song and all he says are the chord names and that's all I need to write down. Writing C7 is alot faster than spelling out the tab for a C7.

I bring an acoustic to a buddies house. He wants to play a song that i've never played before. He'll say "gimme a I-IV-V in A" That's the whole song right there in two seconds.

That's a couple of advantages for me.

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