Do you still consider COF to be Black Metal today??

i don't think, its almost becoming a nu metal gothic bands, i never liked them but now seeing how their becoming sold-out that fast by making a song for a movie, i totally hate them!(Sorry for The COF Fans, its just my opinion) i don't consider them as Black Metal because of the music now and because they are commercial, and everybody know that commercial is absolutely not what Bm is supposed to be! the Essence of Bm is to stay Raw, Simple and in top not beeing commercial..

anyway, what do you think?

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That's a thread for timedragon, i think.

Back to tha thread: I don't consider CoF BM.

You forgot to metion, that BM has to be grim, necro, cult and true!!!

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One would think so. But i have given up. Too much hassle.
Except for one detail, "stay raw", bullshit, I like my metal melodic, even if its black. raw bores me.

And another, for the most part when i hear tremolo, keyboards and high vocals, i consider it black metal. I dont judge on the lyrics or outfit. And fuck anyone who tells me im wrong for this.

EDIT: I still like CoF. you can either think this makes me a poser, or know that they fit the specific style i like and that i didnt discover them on uranium.

i dont believe they've been black for a long time but i like them.

theyve been black, then went goth for a while, judging by a couple of tracks ive heard from nymphetamine, they now sound like swedish gothenburg melodic death

btw dude i agree with your sig, those are some of the not too many black bands i like.

EDIT: how the hell did you get varg's picture backwards?

Sure. Why not? Because of considerations that have nothing to do with the music? Oh, right.


Music isn't supposed to be commercial. Would you go so far as to say Cradle of Filth aren't music anymore? ... Don't answer that.


That's a shame. You'd think it would be more concerned with being worth listening to. Incidentally, 'raw, simple, and uncommercial' describes punk perfectly.

Black metal could be a very diverse genre if more people thought like timedragon and realize that change is a good thing. The standards defining a genre at its birth should grow as it does, not constrict that growth. If death metal still had to sound like Possessed it would be a boring genre, not a vibrant one. If black metal actually progressed the way the treehouse clubbers felt it should, it would be a very boring, dead genre as well. This exclusionary attitude is probably why so many black metal fans are forced to defend their tastes.

That said, I'm not a big fan either of Cradle of Filth or of black metal in genre; I just hate that threads like this get to exist.

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When something becomes commercial, it doesn't mean it becomes a different genre. It's all about musical characteristics first. It's easy to trow words like "poser", "sellout" and "commercial" around. Fucking trad bitch. BM is meant to be experimental and unique in the first place, and not raw and boring. It's not meant to be restrictive. Once you impose those conservative rules upon it, you make it lose it's essence, it was meant to be a slap in the face to everyone in the first place. Also, what about Immortal and Emperor? They were BM as all fuck, yet they didn't do bastardly simplistic stuff.

"Black metal is dark and fast music using melodic development to express its themes. Of all the metals, this is the most communicative with the modern listener, expressing nihilism and a heroic anti-social assertion of the self. Evolving simultaneously with death metal, this genre includes all of the technique and rhythmic intensity of the former with more emotive and comprehensible poetic communication within the music." - Anus.com

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I’ll probably get flamed for this but I don’t care because its my opinion, but I still like CoF. Not as much as of late, after Midian they went downhill. They need Gyan, but Dani is too much of a prick. Hell, I wouldn’t mind if Dani was the one to quit, Gyan doesn’t tweak his vocals. But then the band wouldn’t be Cradle of FILTH. Dani's vocals are a bit annoying after a while.

I still think of them in the black metal genre, but they really toned down almost to gothic metal. They still have those black metal elements that goth metal doesn’t. I hate that they’ve become popular because of Ozzfest. Its really annoying seeing nu metal kids wearing Cradle and Dimmu shirts. Speaking of Dimmu Borgir, am I the only one that hates this band?

I heard the new song on the Resident Evil 2 soundtrack, I liked it mainly because of the female vocals and the melody. I’ll probably buy the new album, but I know it won’t be another Midian.

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never liked cof that much ...... dont think they could be considered as BM

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I wouldn't quote Anus. That guy's a 'fucking trad bitch' if there ever was one. And he's a monstrous tool, as is anybody who forces bands to fit their theory of music rather than forming one based on the bands at hand. I also get the feeling that he uses words without paying much attention to their meaning. Maybe that just goes with being a nihilist.

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Hmm, yeah, he is a stuck up trab bitch, but there was actually a very good article about BM on that site that I agreed with. Eventhough he is what he is, he does make some sense sometimes.

As for CoF, I like CoF, and I do call them BM with gothic influences, but Dimmu Borgir will always beat them, and Emperor will always rule them all. Damnation and a day is a good album, haven't bought Nymphetamine (partially because I didn't like the booklet art, partially because I wanted an Astriaal album instead).

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yet another "CoF: Are they still BM?" thread, who the fuck cares, they are loud, fast, and the occasional good melody, they have some good guitar work, in my opinion, the fuckin kick ass, who the fuck cares what genre they are, i agree with timedragon on his opinion of what black metal is, tremolo picking, high growls, and jkeyboards, but once again, WHO THE FUCK CARES.
and, just to set the record straight, the soundtrack song in question, "nymphetamine", was NOT, i repeat NOT written for the RE2 soundtrack, it was used for the movie, and why the fuck does that mean that a band is selling out. CANNIBAL FUCKING CORPSE WAS IN AN ACE VENTURA MOVIE, DOES THAT MEAN THAT THEY SOLD OUT!!!
i think the newbie thread should be updated saying "NO 'ARE CoF BLACK METAL' THREADS"

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Salut, MoonRaven.

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I hope that wasn't implied by what I said about the RE2 soundtrack. I know they wrote that song before that soundtrack came out, because my friend had it downloaded before the movie came out.

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tis a good song. brilliant lyrics

no, that was directed toward the thread starter

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Fuck man, all their lyrics fucking own. Read some stuff from Midian and try to tell me a pop metal band can write that shit. Oh yeah, TBDM kicks ass. Just thought I would throw that in.

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you're a faggot, not to mention that is incorrect.

TBDM?

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The Black Dahlia Murder. 'twas in reference to my avatar

i see, and yeah, they do fucking own

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no, you're not alone on that one. i despise dimmu.

that said, i didnt really give them a proper listen but maybe its for the best

If that is the case, I suggest you listen to Enthrone darkness triumphant to form your final opinion on them. I think its a great album. That one and stormblast are my personal favorites.

Fuck yes. That album is amazing. Their other stuff is not as good, but Death Cult Armageddon is my "sleep to" music.

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I can actually say I hate them because I actually gave them a listen. Music wise, yes they're very awesome, but the vocals sucks so much to me. I think Vortex should be the full time vocalist.

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vortex is a god. his vox are awesome, but i think of the symphonic BM, fucking borknagar is the best

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Yes, I glad I'm not the only one who thinks so. Borknagar is great black metal. Epic is a awesome album.

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I think they have always been goth metal with some black metal sides.

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All of the technique and rhythmic intensity of the former? Except for Emperor, that is complete fucking horseshit. This guy really is an anus.

Oh, and new cradle sucks even harder than old cradle, which had the odd decent moment but was generally less enjoyable than getting fucked by an Ocelot.

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I don't like CoF, never did. I wouldn't consider them BM anymore - they got a fucking woman that sounds like evanescence in there new song.

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I noticed something, almost everytime we try to express our opinions about a band that we don't like, in this forum, we get bash for absolutely nohing..

and its not because i like my Black Metal, Raw and Simple that i don't like Melodic, i also really like some Melodic band like Windir, Dissection, Emperor, ..Just not COF or Dimmu..

About Cradle Of Filth, Its simple, its not just because of the movie, they are Sold Out, They are even considered to be in the same category than Slipknot, Marilyn Manson, KoRn, Even Evanescence....They almost sound like a Nu Metal band Today, Maybe their good but i don't like to listen to a band that does not give just a little shit about the music and that just want money..

MUSIC IS NOT SUPPOSE TO BE A JOB.

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its not that you are expressing an opinion, its that the opinion you are expressing is the same thing any BM elitist newb expresses, "CoF is not true BM", there have been countless threads about the topic, and the majority of us could give a fuck less what you think on the matter. i will give you this, you havent acted like most newbs, getting all defensive, i respect you for that, but, CoF still kicks ass.

btw, music may not be a job, but being in a band is, talk to any band, the will tell you that it is hard fuckin work, writing the music isnt the job part, i cant see cradle going into the studio saying "ok, lets write a single that will get massive airplay." the fact tthat they make good enough money to be full-time musicians, while still writing all their own music means that people like what they do, not that they sold out. they dont whore themselves out to every radio station and music video show out there now do they. they worked their asses off to get where they are now, and i respect them for it.

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uh, when have they been considered in the same category of slipknot, manson, korn or evanescence? what the fuck are you talking about. And how do you know they dont care about the music. I could just as easlily say you dont really care about the music you listen to, and that you just do it for the attention/look/whatever. Know what i mean. And music can be for any purpose, and that purpose is up to the creator. Some choose to do it as a "job", some may do it for the "love of it", but i still know those want credit/money even/and recognition for this thing they put so much work into. Hey, i want to be heard... so shoot me. Dont get me wrong though, i dont think music should be done for fame. but the ones who do get fame, not all of them were only doing it for that purpose.

Great. Nobody cares if you like or dislike them. That's a matter of taste, and nobody was attacking you for it. Go back and pay attention to the focus of everybody's posts in this thread.


You're just guessing that. You sound like anus saying he doesn't like Death later work because it's 'philosophically naive.' You're the one so focused on non-musical that music is taking the back seat. If Cradle is too, you'll only find out one way: actually listening to the music and seeing if it's crafted any less carefully than it ever was.


Maybe, but it is a job. Every band you've ever heard of has taken it upon themselves as a job; otherwise, you'd never have heard of them. Listen to 'Hooker With a Penis' and let Maynard school you on how music is a job. Do you really think that playing shows for money, recording a demo and shopping it around to record labels, and all the rest of the work that goes into showing up on the musical horizon is ignoring the money-making aspects of making music? Where are you drawing the line?

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i've liked cradle of filth from dusk and her embrace onwards, i've liked pretty much every change they make. it reminds me of the band amorphis, as soon as a band takes a different direction they get slagged whether the new direction is better or not... music is horribly claustrophobic. while something like metallica didn't exactly get better when tehy changed other bands have evolved into better or "different but still well done". that being said i think the new cradle is excellent, i could pass on him whining "black is my heart" for 3 minutes in the one song, but other than that it's good. also i like cradle because they can make fun of themselves, which is the main reason dimmu borgir gets on my nerves. their music is ok and all but they do the whole "we're satanic! we're an evil band" blah blah and take themselves way too seriously. for a long time now cradle has been pretty tongue in cheek about it and i like that.

also the new guitarist for cradle is a really really cool guy, i've hung out with him twice now. kicks ass.

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Ok ok.. If music wasn't a job, then it can be compared to communism. YAY. How? With communism people had no reason to compete or to become better other than for their own reasons. With having to compete, every musician strives to be signed, and to be good, and to sell well. To do that, your music has to be something. I don't care why they write their music, it's their own business. Don't take music out of it's content of sound. It's not about the people who made it, or the reputation, or the image, or what it's "meant" to be. It's about it being kickass to listen to and I don't care if every signle preppy girl in school owns the album, if I like it, it like it, and you can't take that away from me.

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I hope you didnt pointed me about the Look, attention....Because i hate people who start to listen to a band just to get attention..Yeah your right its good to get money when we play music, but when its the only think that we want, its not good..

About Cradle, the reason that i don't like them, is that they in a sens, because when we say to someone that we like BM, he will answer oh like Cradle!!..Today its commercial because its the only band in BM that everybody know, they consider all BM bands to be like Cradle and i hate that, its like Cradle were the most influential BM bands, its like if all bands that i listen look like Cradle, and now because of their commerciality, people think BM is Gothic..It ruined a bit the BM image...Person ask me what does i listen..I answer Black Metal...And he say oh Yeah Cradle are god...I just don't like the facts that for most of the people BM means Cradle Of Filth when BM essential bands doesnt musically look like Cradle at all...I would like one day to play a cd of Darkthrone, Mayhem, Burzum or Immortal and say to everyone who don't already know: thats how BM sound!...i dont know if my explanation is clear but if you dont understand i can explain more...

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That's fairly clear. I had the same reaction myself (not to Cradle of Filth, but to other bands in genres I cared about) when I was 13 or so, until I found a better criteria for judging a band. Like the band itself, rather than the perceptions of people who have had no access whatsoever to a genre of music that is, by definition, underground. Do you think your average person on the street knows who Varg Vikernes is? Why would he? Most people I know only know who Mayhem are because of that cow's head incident from two years back. Of course Cradle of Filth will be the first band to come to mind. The question you need to be asking is: how does this affect the music? You're judging a band you refuse to listen to, and then you're surprised we have a problem with it? I don't like Cradle of Filth myself, but I dislike them for their music, not because they're better known than Burzum.

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its like that with any style, someone says that they like thrash, the first words uttered from an musically uneducated persons mouth would be metallica, or cannibal corpse with death metal. there are gonna be those bands that everyone knows, but that is no reason to hate the band, it wasnt their goal in life to make a mockery of a scene that you are a part of, i think bands like cradle have done more good for the black metal scene than not, because i can speak from exprience, i discovered great bands like bornagar, illnath, gorgoroth, emperor, immortal, marduk, and other such BM bands thru cradle, they were my gateway to BM, just as early metallica was my gateway to metal, CC was my gateway to death metal, and so on. i think a lot of people have gotten deeper into the BM scene because of CoF, which means that there will be more BM out there. so you really shouldnt be complaining about CoF, they are helping your scene more than half of the so-called "tr00 kvlt" bullshit bands that no one has heard of. thats about all i have to say about that for now.

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Cradle is BM, just like they were when they started. they have only become more melodic and Dani's voice is more annoying now.

that's all.

About Cradle, to make it clear, I don't like the music as well..its not about beeing True...Because i don't like BM fans who call themselves True...If someone think i try to be true..its not the fact..cuz i just know a lot about BM and i got bored of all the other style, so right now i just listen to BM, so i know a lot about the scene and the music, so Cradle are not very Bm for me..and i don't like it thats all, i respect all of you who like the band...I'm not like these supposely true who thinks that the fan from a band that they don't like are shit..

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A big reason why CoF is where they are today is because they make good music, not to knock my Mayhem and Burzum buds. When the words speed metal are said, to some Slayer comes to mind. Same with Cannibal Corpse or Morbid Angel when death metal is mentioned. They reached that point because their music is highly respected. Black metal is highly looked down on, CoF is one of the few that broke through boundaries and made the Ozzfest line up. Thats why you have these little nu metal kids wearing Cradle shirts. So if you can't look over their popularity, you'll miss out on some good music just because you hate popular bands.

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