righty, question, what would be a better, getting a nice lil rack thing going, or getting a head. if a head, what head, i am thinking about the randall rh100g2, or if rack, what gear?

and i guess a used marshall 1960 for cab

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for a cheap good rack pre amp i like the masrshall jmp one. i forget the exact model name.

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you should buy some of my rack gear i'm selling... like my marshall jmp-1 and my peavey classic 50/50 tube poweramp.
it'll all fit in a little three space rack, it'll be just as good sounding as a nice tube top, but more flexibility and options, plus it'd be smaller than your average head.

otherwise, a couple good tube heads i'd say look into are the 5150, 5150 II and the crate blue voodoo's.

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could do, where bouts u live tho, im in lil old england. yeah and as im in lil old england blue voodoos go for shit loads, v annoying

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i'm in america.

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i m from england to, your damn right about crate blue voodoo's bein shit loads, i saw a second hand bv60 on ebay for £400 .

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yeah, amps on ebay are too much, even used marshall cabs are going for £300. any played the boss od20, i know i shounldnt keep buying pedals but is this any good, herd some sound clips and it sounds kinder over processed. i sick to death of buying shit pedal after shit pedal...

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how much is that in u.s.d.?

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the randall is pretty nice. For cheap rack gear id say any digitech gsp series. for power amps that are cheap, i guess the alesis RA-100 or 300 would do.

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if you don't have much to spend, get a head. Rack shit is expensive and that Randall will do fine for most stuff....

on another note, I might get a powerball soon

whats in your rack nowadays def...if you dont mind telling us

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not all racks... a decent/good preamp+poweramp rack will cost about as much as a good/decent head...

my jmp-1 + classic 50/50 setup would be just as kick-assy(maybe more, not to mention more flexible) and just as loud as a marshall tube top. and would cost the same amount(if we're talking used of course)...

that's not even the cheapest rack rig you could get, ada mp-1's are even cheaper and almost as good imo... and you don't have to get a tube poweramp.

you and your damn engl's... save up and get the se, don't even bother with the powerball.

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still the same, Engl 620 preamp and a peavey 50/50 poweramp.

besides that I have an Engl Savage and I might be buying an Engl powerball someday soon as I get my rack sold...

you ever come across the H&K mkII triamp over their in your amp travels? the clips from the website sounds like you could get a killer tone with it

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Yeah, MKI's too. I can buy a MKII used too, but I'de rather get the powerball because it suits my needs better.

the Triamp is great though if you want a reaaaally versatile amp and a lot of clear tones

how much would it be used? new its like 2000 USD atlest

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over there, maybe. not here.

you can get a used one with the original cab for like 2000 euro's, so a bit more in dollars, but with the cab.

the top is like 3000 new over there?

http://www.calculator.com/calcs/xchange.html


Its a rough calculation since recent curency rates are not taken in account, but it aproaches it very well.

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Hey def, doesn't that shop in Utrecht called "feedback" stock on a few Engls?
I'm dying to try that "engl" tone, but musikproduktiv in Germany is a long travel for me

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Not really, a really good racksetup runs way more expensive!

I won't get an SE. I've tried it now, same with the Savage SE, it has too many options I don't need and the powerball does exactly what I want it too, brutal fucking tone. and nice tubey cleans, its more versatile then my savage or my rack, but its a shitload more expensive too.
The SE's are both more versatile but way above my budget, I don't want to spend 4000 bucks on a top. I mean I use it a lot too, I'de be afraid to hurt it or getting it stolen or something. A used powerball goes for about 1000 euro's here. not shabby, I've got a hook up on one now, If only I could sell my rack this weekend... then its mine.

Feedback has a powerball, a screamer 50 and they had a Thunder but that one was sold like two weeks ago.

when are you going there man? I allways go over there for strings and shit, obviously not to buy anything big because they've got SHITTY service there. The powerball they had in the test room wasn't to be touched. haha, first thing I touched was ofcourse, the powerball

I'm not sure when (and if) i'll go. We have two nice stores over in Haarlem to buy strings and stuff. I once went to feedback, but they were closed that day and havent come back. A few days ago I saw on their website that they had some engl stuff, so i'd thought to go and check it sometime.
But if the won't let you even touch the stuff...well...i dunno

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dont you live in the US? and your thinking of going to germany to go to a music store?

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i don't get your logic... a preamp and poweramp is basically the same as a head.... the simplest form of a rack... a cheap tube preamp like an ada mp-1 plus something like a peavey classic 50/50... it's like a tube top... you could probably assemble that rack for about $400-500 in the u.s. and i think it's a better rig than most tube tops that go for that much. hell, even over that much.

it depends on how nice... you want something that'll compete with a blue voodoo or a 5150 in both price and sound... there are a number of options that can be had to fit those requirements. if you want something that will compete with a really nice botique head like a bogner xtc, you can get a number of nice rack peices in that quality and price range.

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exactly

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well, I said 'good' rack gear didn't I

If I want something like the sound I get from my Engl, it'll set me back more then it'de cost me to buy a new powerball.

Ofcourse you can get cheap rack gear too, but if you want good stuff, better dish out that cash. a good head is cheaper overall. If you're just starting out you're just as well of with a randall rh100 instead of a cheapass rack with ss poweramp.
Over here rackgear is pretty hard to find anyways so its a bit more expensive then in the US I think.

Haha no... I live in the Netherlands, wich is located next to Germany. Its a small country, so you I can enter Germany on the eastborder in 3 hours from the westcoast. Altough, traveling 6 hours to try an amp, i'll not do it that easily

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just go to feedback then

when I walked outta the practise room I said 'I gave the powerball a spin' they said 'yeah, the one with the sign, we figured.'

haha. it's no biggy though, they won't get pissed or anything.

obvisously you've never played an mp-1? one of the biggest underdog preamps ever imo. they're retardedly cheap and really good.

how much did your savage run you? i bet you could slap a rack that's just as good together for about the same price.
it wouldnt sound "identical" which might create the illusion that it's not as good if you find your savage to be the best to your ears.

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your 'really good' is your own illusion. I've played the mp1-3tm even.

you can't slap a good rack together that beats my savage for the price I got it (450 of ebay in a lucky auction ) (I can sell it for like 750 here lol, so it was worth the drive over to germany)

but a full engl rack doesn't get the same tones as a fireball, powerball or savage, they just sound different. you can get close, but its stilll like a simulation

I m thinking about buying an Engl when i get more money and after i ve got bored of my marshall. I've already played the savage 120 and it fucking rocked, sweet ass tone especially the od channel, do u know whether they sell 60 watt versions? I think they did but they got discontinued

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yeah, I've got one

they've only been sold in germany as far as I know and only for a short period I think! you don't see them often...

If I'm lucky, I'll have a powerball this sunday... and one rack setup less!!! (the Savage for at home, the powerball for practise and gigs..)

here's my 60w Savage:

savage sixty

enjoy!

450? whaaa? that doesnt count because it's insane and theres no way we could get a deal like that on them here....
and the mp-1 is still fucking awesome.

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damn def that engl head is small...
the grill/mesh pattern on the cab is cool though

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i had too.

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real mature....

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that's it, my dad is totally going to kick your dads ass!

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I hate america..

Def im gonna move to The Netherlands.. got an extra closet i can live in?


pretttty pleassse!

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yea YEA well...wel.....

MY MOMMY COULD BEAT YOUR DADDY!!

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I have a closet you can live it. But the rent is $150 a month, and you have to perform oral service 3 times a day, except sundays.

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Only 3 times??

are you gay or something?

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ok so first off im not a gear head...that said

@ def or dislexic mostly(cause they know all)
where is a good place to start with as far as getting a rack goes?
what exactly does a rack do(completly creats the sound, just kinda shapes the sound from the head...?)
and you use a rack with the head right

oh and what goes into a rack i know its gotta be different for all but just a general idea would be nice

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Well, I have to be easy on you, or the harem...i mean, your friends would get all jealous.

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a rack is an amp built from a preamp and power amp in the most basic case. so there is no amp head involved.

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it is! but just wait untill I get a powerball! \m/

the savage is going to be my home amp, its great because you can crank it a bit without blasting all the walls to the ground...

a good place to start is getting a rack case

a 'basic' rack would be a pre-poweramp configuration, thus meaning you have a seperate preamp and poweramp much like my own rack, its the simplest form. But even this combination can get really expensive depending on what you get in your rack.

the preamp shapes your tone and the poweramp just amplifies it.

BUT. the poweramp is important for your tone too, getting a kickass preamp with a shit poweramp will still sound shit, and vice versa.

theres different types of preamps, SS, semi-digital (with a tube in it to colour the distortion) and full tube. I like full tube the best because of their true tube tone, but some people prefer semi-digital ones because they're more versatile in most cases. (more setup options)
And then there's midi preamps, but I won't get into that because that's prolly not something that you'de need to know, midi is for top knotch gear like the new engl e580 preamp. that'll set you back a lot of money though.

Ofcourse you can expand your rack with a lot of crap, like stage tuners (Korg DTR), sound shapers, fx units, eq's, you name it. you can get as crazy as you want. But if you want to start a rack, start out with a good pre and poweramp and build up from there if you feel the need for more options.

yeah, well actually we've got some empty rooms, which I could rent you haha.

the sweet engl deals are all in germany though. ebay.de baby...

yeah, but we gotta speak german to know what the hell theyre talking about right?

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well yea

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yeah, hey def, if i paid you to buy a savage or something for me and ship it to me, would you?

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totally


totally


totally... i can't stress the importance of the poweramp enough.... i kinda like super high wattage s.s. poweramps because they're sooo clean.... but i also like alot of tube poweramps.



with the different types, i think this needs revising.
s.s.
you have digital s.s. ala line 6...
or analog s.s., like tech 21
tube,
you have "valve"/"hybrid" which is either a digital or analog s.s. signal using tube(s) for more warmth, color, and gain.

or... you have true tube... which is just an all tube signal.


alot of preamps have midi... the mp-1 has midi... and it's cheap as fuck(though top notch imo).
so does the jmp-1. and h&k access....

the e580 and e570 are just to kick ass to not have midi, because if they didn't have midi people would shit there pants over how you could make such an amazing preamp and not give it a feature like midi.




totally

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Nah, because you never know what might happen with shipping and you won't have ebay buyer protection then.. And ofcourse a european amp won't work in the US, you'de have to get it changed to a different voltage and shit. (my poweramp had a switch for that, I don't know how my Engl top works, but it probably needs something changed)

as for preamps with midi, IMO only preamps with a lot of options have midi, right? like the mp1 3tm, jmp-1, acces, triaxis, etc. a simple analog preamp usually doesn't have it, though the high end analogs do have them from time to time. the ADA mp1 is allready considered top knotch here because you pay a lot for them over here. the 3tm was the only one I ever saw in real life even. its more of a shred preamp.

not really.. hell, your engl 620 preamp has midi right? it's only two channels with a shared eq. one of the cheapest they make/made and it's pretty old too huh?

my old bogner/hafler triple giant had midi... it was a three channel analog tube preamp.

some mesa preamps like the vtwin rack i had can have mods to have midi mapping installed on the back... though mine didn't have that feature and i didn't wanna pay for it a the time(i was still a pedal guy).

it's not all preamps with savable presets, though almost all of the preamps with presets have midi, it'd be retarded not to.

with some amps/preamps it's just a feature for channel switching...


they're cheap as fuck around here... modded or not... it's a very high preamp, excellent for shred and metal imo.

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My 620 didn't have midi, the higher version of it had, it did have the ports on the back so I think it could be modded for it?

most simpler preamps don't have midi, like those simple marshalls from back in the day, soldano's, rivera's, you name it. Most boutique preamps don't even have it, though if you look at the top end models, they often do have it...

I've played the mp1 3tm, I didn't like it much, but if you're into shred its neat, for metal, meh. not enough of an agressive punching tone. But ofcourse I'm spoiled at that aspect..

oh shit, i forgot you have different plugs. Damn, well i guess the prices there arent that good. 1.666 euro is like 2000 american.

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ahem... keep in mind that's a Savage special edition your talking about and thats a shop selling it, it's new.

a normal savage 120 would go for that in the US man.

prices here are way lower, I might be buying a powerball this weekend for 1000 bucks with flightcase and engl footswitch.

you guys can't even get a new fireball for that

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...3759777619&rd=1

580 allready for sale.. damn.

yeah, but isnt mesa stuff over there really expensive?

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Yes.. but who wants a Mesa when they have Bogner's, Engl's, H&K, Deizel.. ect

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how does a rack differ from just a head anyway?
can i run an eq through my head? or do i need a rack for that? if i can what would be a good one also how drastically will it change to the tone of the head?

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run through the effects loop.

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hey dislexic would the behringer fbq-1502 eq be any good? sounds like it would be...and i can get it on ebay for like 80$
i noticed you used the ibanez msp1000 hows that?

so i could just run it through my fx loop on my head then?

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XDX says the msp1000 is good, but theyre really hard to find. Anyway, i prefer the alesis M-EQ230, so many of those on ebay, its like a never ending stream of em.

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exactly.

plus mesa's are all the rage

it's not that expensive compared to the US, but we can get a boutique amp for the mesa money. over here its mostly the nu-metal kid wannabe's the get triple recto's and shit.

They must think "Its Made in America, it must be good!"

while we think the same about all the kickass german amps

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i think the msp 1000 rocks.... an all analog unit... compressor,15 band graphic eq, and notch filter.... all in one rack space. throw it in you fx loop and tweak it... a world of changes can be made.

they're very rare, it's vintage analog ibanez rack gear.

i'm selling her though, to make room for a bigger poweramp, so i'm just going to buy a compressor pedal and an eq pedal that i'll put in the back of my rack case.

one of these days i'll buy another one if i find it. it's one of those units.

i think some behringer stuff is ok, like studio rack gear, but for guitar i don't them much.

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thanks guys, i guess il go with the msp 1000 theres like 3 of em on ebay right now, greatly priced too

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holy shit, 3 of em on ebay at once... i hardly ever see them on there...

but you should just buy mine

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too late im already bidding on one
sorry

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that thing looks pretty cool, but id rather have g-major and alesis M-EQ230

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Wait, Wait, Wait a second...

I still don't get it, why get a rack and/or a head...

I'm lost...Please explain

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a head is just a preamp and poweramp in one unit...

i like rack stuff because i can mismatch brand names... say mesa makes a poweramp i want, i buy it... then marshall makes a preamp i want... i buy it. you cant have a mesa/marshall head.

not to mention the sounds are different.

then there are all the other goodies you can through in a rack, like a sonic maximizer, graphic eq, tuner, power condishioner, parametric eq, multi fx units, compressors, dedicated fx units, line mixers, noise gate, wireless receviers, rack drawers, lights, ect....

alot of people get rack for the other goodies then they use a head in place of the dedicated preamp and poweramp.

some people like simple, some like complicated.

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what would be better for an aggressive slayer sound, an ada mp-1, or marshall jmp1?

[edit] and what sort of price do they ebay at?

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for slayer, marshall all the way. But if youre going for a slayer sound, jcm 800-900 is your best bet, or a splawn mod pro 100.

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for slayer yea marshall and maybe run that new kerry king pedal thing through it

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its just an eq pedal... and its only 10 band... get a 15 or 30 band one.

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is it, i thought it had like a more powerfull mid scooper and one other thing on it

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no, its just a 10 band eq. the only difference is that you can plug it into two amps.

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YESS!!! ONLY THE COOLZOZRZ TRIBAL GRAPHICS CAN GIVE YOU SLAYER SOUND!! RAWR!!

Personally that bs paint isent worth the extra $20 or so bucks..

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Yeah, Alesis M-EQ230, get it.

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jmp-1 yo.... (buy mine)

the jmp-1 can hit just about any marshall sound on the money... i just want more than a marshall sound.

the mp-1 is good and does do a good shred lead tone, and can be modded to sound more marshallish... but the jmp-1 would be better imo for slayerish tone.

part of it is that slayer actually uses marshalls...

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yeah.. lol how much u selling it for and how much would it be to send the the uk? prob lots...

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new marshalls are really cheap for you man.

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probably more than the trouble is worth... not to mention power differences... so scrap that.

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i was wondering about the power differences, like if i got an engl or laney or some other head made in europe would it work here?

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if its an export model, yes. then they're wired for 120v(?) over here everything is 220v, they have different powertransformers or fuses and shit. my poweramp had a switch for it so you could change it instantly. (nice for international tours heh)

Okay, there is this JMP-1 preamp that goes for about 350$, i think i could get the price down a bit if i tried, but do you think i should go for it. I mean i really like marshall tone and Slayers tone is awesome too, and i read somewhere in an interview with Kerry that he had experimented with this preamp and thought it was good. I have my Musicman RD-100 that i can use as a poweramp as it has tubes.

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i doubt you could get it cheaper than $350... maybe if you'r lucky. but these days they seem to be going about $400...
i'm selling mine for bout' $400(i'll pay shipping within the u.s.)

but if you can get it for that cheap i'd suggest you jump on it..

though if you really more of an exact slayer tone you shold get a jcm 800. because thats what they use. the jmp-1 can hit them pretty well, as it can pretty much give you any marshallish sound you want, and with much more accuaracy than cruddy line 6 type stuff too... i think if you dig marshall tone at all, whether it's an mg or a plexi, you could probably get some tones you'll like out of it.

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hey xdx what does the channel limiter do? i cant seem to figure it out...

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channel limiter?

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yea its one of the features on the msp1000

er actually compresser limiter

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compressor flattens out your tone, i like em.

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i was just about to say, my msp 1000 has no "channel limiter"...
the compressor is a tool to flatten(compress) you sound, it takes away from the dynamics, the harder you play the more it compresses. which i think is awesome for rythemic chugs and lead tone... it stays more constant... some people hate it, i love it.


one knob(the far right one) adjusts the output level... so it kinda works like a volume knob because compression can take away from your volume. the other two, the threshold and ratio knobs are what you use to decide how much compression is in your signal.

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