Hah, I just saw this stuff on tv about the American elections and they're calling it the American 'ground war' now.

Vote Bush for that final push

Seriously, both candidates seem pretty retarded but Bush has ruined most relations with the rest of the world and set America back big time, under Clinton America was much more respected in Europe. If Bush gets re-elected a lot of European people will think you're retards

Anyways, I don't care for it much as long as there's no nukes falling on Holland but I don't like Bush for not acknowledging the international court of justice, so fuck him.

POLL TIME!

Its a choice between a Douche and a Turd (southpark citing..) so i choose Kerry .

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Kerry

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Who'd vote Bush here?
I sure as hell wouldn't

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me neither but we're not Americans

I think this shows how most Europeans think about Bush though.

It would be smarter for them to think the people that voted for Bush are retards. Bush was a fuckin cocaine addict and an achoholic a while back. People here should realize its not smart to have an ex-coke head leading a war.

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Yup, though if he wins, poeple will generalize, ofcourse he does need the most votes. Or well, a lot of votes, you guys and your weird election system with states and shit.

I don't know much about Bush but I've seem him make an ass out of himself more then once, basically I don't agree with invading Iraq either, though thats not even why I wouldn't vote on him. I don't agree with his attitude against the world in general. I don't see much better stuff coming from Kerry but after seeing those debates, I think Kerry can at least handle the economic situation over there and finish up in Iraq.
I don't know if anyone here knows more about his election program and Bush's, but from what I've seen I wouldn't vote for Bush.

It's a matter of voting for the lesser-evil I guess.

If i could vote i would choose Kerry.

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he allegedly did cocaine. once. as for the alcoholism, yea, but he cleaned himself up. are you saying that ex drunks are worthless human beings?

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why can't you vote?

over here everybody is registered, when you're 18 you can vote. I allways vote for political shit.

I agree with Trans though, alcholic or not, doesn't make him unable to be the president, I'm pretty sure there's been presidents with drinking problems over there, right? Man look at Russian presidents, the drink vodka and use ak-47's to shoot deers.

[QUOTE=Def]If Bush gets re-elected a lot of European people will think you're retards [QUOTE]

We saved Europes ass. I don't think too many people are concerned with what they think.

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yeah and if we go back more then 50 years into the history books, New York was still called New Amsterdam


you might not care about the world's opinion about your country, sounds typically american to me. I'm glad not every american is like that.

Bush is a power-crazed baboon with ideas above his evolutionary station and an intellect that is visible only with the most powerful of electron microscopes. This despicable primate can barely speak English never mind function in the cut and thrust world of politics. His environmental and economic policies - that also impact on the rest of the world - are nothing short of diabolically heinous.

Kerry is a war hero, but this aside, what has the man done apart from star in the Munsters? He is non-descript and I doubt that he has the necessary leadership and sheer presence to lead America into a new era. The man sounds boring, looks boring and - shock of all shocks - is boring. Kerry may have physically survived several tours of 'Nam, but his charisma is still missing in action presumed dead.

Being asked to vote for either Bush or Kerry is the equivalent of choosing between death via the gruesome act of hanging, drawing and quartering or by the equally excruciating punishment of crucifixion. Both will yield horrendously vile results and will leave the onlooking audience wretching in disgust.

Despite this, one of the bastards has to win and if I were American I would seriously be undecided. My gut instinct is that I would prefer Kerry, but at least in Bush we have a Devil that we already know oh too well. The thing is, you can always trust a lier to lie and an idiot to be an idiot - it's the truthful, quiet types that we need to watch out for.

Fuck it, I'll go for Kerry.

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were not voting to please the rest of the world


and kerry shot himself in the foot and played with grenades what do you think he would do with battle ships and missiles



yea defs not gonna be worthless once he sobers up

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ofcourse you're not voting for the rest of the world, but seriously, don't you see what Bush has done for international relations?

man, when Clinton was still president everything was pro-american here but with all this shit, everything's changed. It's not as bad here as it is in France but I do think that its a major setback in international relationships. Hell Bush doesn't even acknowledge the 'international' court of justice. Because the european councill and UN did not agree on his war.

ofcourse you're voting for your own country but if you look at your economics, I don't think Bush has done well there, how many jobs where lost in 4 years? (I heard it on the news, but don't recall..)

not really trying to defend him but you try getting up in front of that many people and not fuck up


war hero?! he was in vietnam for 3-4 months some of my grandfathers freinds were there for four fucking years


agreed

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I'd vote Bush,for the fun of it

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War hero? You have to be kidding me! He shot an unarmed teenager in the back! He had someone film him in the River swimming after someone to save them. I admit that is noble but he gave the footage to Stephen Speilberg and had gunfire super-imposed into the film. He later showed that at the democratic national convention.

As far as the several tours goes you might want to look into it a little bit more. He tried to avoid going to Vietnam saying he wanted to go to Paris. He ended up going. He also had purple hearts from getting metal stuck in his FINGER! He left four months early. That happened because he filled out the paperwork for the little finger incident.

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Kerry. The better of the two evils. As in any election worldwide it seems.
Bush's English is even worse than mine.

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polls are in Bush's favors right now according to the TV.

If I was American I would be undecided too I guess, because you don't know what you're getting if you vote in Kerry, who knows he'll fuck everything up more in Iraq.
I agree with mansley though, I'de go for Bush just because I'de like to see Kerry do better for America. Bush never came off as an intelligent or strong president on tv... I think Clinton looked way more secure of himself (even after the cigar incident LOL)

Unemployment is at 5.4% Thats lower than the 1960's 1970's 1980's and the 90's

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most people that were in wars dont even want to talk about their experiences let alone film them and re-watched them. hes just pathetically trying to get "brownie points" by playing with people veteran emotions

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But compared to the 4 years before Bush? some guys where ranting on about it on TV and made a really big deal about it.

I'de like to know more about that, does anyone KNOW actual plans that Kerry has on improving economics in America itself? (I heard him on the debates but not actual 'plans' more like random gibberish...)

thats the biggest downfall to him i see he never fucking answers anything everytime hes asked a question he kinda starts to talk about it somewhat then drifts off to his "grand time in vietnam"

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Did you now? So how come you only entered the war after the bombing of Pearl Harbour? It took America 2 years after the Second World War started before it entered the fray - you hardly came running to quell the Nazi threat as British, Australian, New Zealand and French troops were dying in battle.

Don't you dare come in here with that pompous, "America saved the day" crap - 25 million Russians who died on the Eastern front and the many hundreds of thousands of British, Canadian and ANZAC troops that died on the Western front would beg to differ with your ill-informed view of modern history.

This view is typical of all too many Americans. "Why should we care what those Europeans think?" Well, it's simple really - we want a President whose global policies are equitable to both economies and environments on both sides of the Atlantic/Pacific. Recently Bush has sat back and put two fingers up to Europe where the exchange rate is concerned - European industry is suffering as it is more expensive to export to the USA. European citizens are losing their livelihoods due to American Presidential policy. What's Bush doing to redress the balance? Does he even know what's going on over here? You and I both know the answer to these questions.

I haven't even touched on Bush's global environmental policy. In short it's an absolute disgrace. He's single handedly trying to ruin 15 years of progress that has been made in terms of reducing pollutants into our atmosphere. Bush doesn't care what happens to the world as long as American industry is raking in the green. You wait 'til Chris Rezendes gets online, he'll fill you in on even more environmental travesties that Bush is allowing to happen.

These are the reasons why we Europeans have our views on the Presidency because despite what you may think, this election influences and impacts upon the rest of the World.

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That is because he was telling everyone to go to his website instead of talking about his plans.

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haha. well the war-hero thing is kinda overdone IMO.

if they had a politician over here with warstories and they turned out to be fake, he would be put off as politician. people take that shit highly over there with everything that happend under german siege in WOII. There was this politician that had a story about illegally harboring jewish people in his house in the war, it turned out it wasn't him but his neighbour or something, that guy couldn't ever show his face again and was banned from the parlement. Allmost all jewish people in holland where deported to death camps and shit, making up stories like that is seriously fucked up.

I guess its the same with him and Vietnam, though its not totally fake.

I voted for Count Chocula.

haha MUSTAINE FOR PRESIDENT

fuck lets just can em both and have john be pres!

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Im not taking anything away from the allied soldiers that fought and died in that war. If we left it alone Europeans would be walking around with a funny moustache and gestapo boots.

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John, you're right, it pissed me off too but maybe he didn't actually think before posting. I've lost a big part of my family in the war and I heard a lot of first hand stories. The new american generations don't know as much of the war it seems, but ofcourse those are not stories that everyone wants to share with their kids. Over here, the story gets told from granddad to grandson and so on, because we never want anything like that to happen again. Over here we remember liberation day every year, where we have a minute of silence for all the casualties of the war and the annual festivities around our liberation.
I'm really passionate about WOII, I live close to Wageningen and the old Grebbelinie, both my granddads fought in it and heard the stories first hand when I was a kid, one of my granddads even fought for the RAF! I don't take those pompous post lightly.

just wanted to get that off my chest, I know its completely off-topic.

What I'm saying, Blizzard Beast, is that you would have stood by and let it happen were it not for the bombing of Pearl Harbour. You hardly 'saved' us out of the goodness of your hearts.

Def: I'm very passionate about it too, my grandfather fought in North Africa against Rommel.

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oh please. you feel so high and mighty do you?

without europeans there wouldn't even be an America and you would be some kinda indian dude building temples

no wonder you'de vote for Bush. Anyways, go ahead. it's your country.

I agree.

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First off, I wouldn't vote for one or the other.

Why does Bush sometimes in his speaches mention the US as if it's a good democracy?
If the info I have is correct, only about 35% of the possible voters actually vote. That's not really a lot.
As we saw in the latest elections, a candidate can win the elections even though he got fewer votes than his opponent. Isn't it generally agreed that a democracy is supposed to be ruled by the majority?

How can Bush call Americans "a peaceful people"?
The US has, to the best of my knowledge, been involved in 9 wars (North vs South, WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Kuwait, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq) wars during the last 150 years. Sweden hasn't been in a single war during that time.

What's with bringing up the whole "we saved your ass during WW2"-thing, when Europeans complain?
Shouldn't Americans be thanking Spain and Portugal for Columbus and his exploration of an alternate route to India then?

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just outa curiosity do you know what he flew and what squadren he was with?

why do europenas always refer to it was WOII whats the O for?

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I heard that in some states there's about 80% coming to vote? maybe the news was wrong, I'll see if the special is still on the TV.

no cause he didnt discover this fucking hunk a rock, its proven that the vikings were here over 500 years befor he was even born, why we still teach kids today he discovered it is beyond me

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The "O" is for oorlog. It's dutch for war.

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[QUOTE=G_urr_A]How can Bush call Americans "a peaceful people"?
The US has, to the best of my knowledge, been involved in 9 wars (North vs South, WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Kuwait, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq) wars during the last 150 years. Sweden hasn't been in a single war during that time.[QUOTE]

It wasnt a war with Kuwait. We were driving Saddam out of there. The world didnt seem to mind that. The U.N. backed that operation. We were in Somalia because a warlord was taking the food that the U.N. was sending over there and starving the people. Korea and Vietnam were waged to thwart communism.
Afganistan and Irag were liberated from madmen that killed female rape victims just because they said no to a man. They fed people to animals. They flew planes into our towers. And if they had they chance they would murder anyone who is not muslim.

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Lol, that's a good one. Check my post and take into consideration that I'm from Sweden, and you'll see why I laugh.

I am however curious about your second question.

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322ste Nederlandse Jacht Eskader, they flew Spitfires. He flew for the RAF somewhere in 1944-1945 and the 332'th landed on a dutch airstrip after the war, accompanied by a fleet of British planes, my granddad told me about the return flight home, he never could stop talking about it. He passed away when I was a kid, but I remember the stories like it was yesterday.

Same goes for my grandma's stories, she had to live through the siege and shit. I can't even imagine how that would be, I don't think anyone here can.

that wasn't the only dutch RAF squadron by the way, there where more non-british squadrons, I think I heard stories about even Polish pilots.

I didn't say it was war *with* Kuwait. And so what if the world didn't mind... It's not very peaceful to intervene in other countries' conflicts using military force, IMO

Somalia - So? Is that your business? Shouldn't the UN take care of that itself?

Korea and Vietnam - Once again, is that your business? If you seriously think so, can you see why terror attacks against the US could look justified in some people's eyes? It can be seen as a war on capitalism/[US imperialism]/whatever, and if the US has the right to fight communism in any form anywhere on the planet, why shouldn't someone fight the aforementioned entities anywhere on the planet?

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Fuck Bush and his right wing Christian conservative movement.

Kerry is a smart man, hes experienced war and know its NOT worth invading another country over the circumstances Bush has given..

If Kerry was the president we would most likely have caught Osama Bin Laden.

But Bush is that fucking typical redneck idiotic goof around funny guy.. so idiots vote for him.

Either way, Kerry can get every fucking vote... as long as the Electoral college is around your vote is worthless.

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what's the Electoral college?

Yeah the UN did take care of it. They sent us in. Well I guess you don't think Hitler's invasion of Europe was any of our business either right? As far as peace goes; there is only one way to have world peace. KILL EVERYONE!

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thats awsome that you know all that i read some where that like 15% of the english population think that hitler was a made up figure!

did he participate in the battle for englad or did he fly over in africa?

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Its the main reason most people dont even bother to vote..

http://www.fec.gov/pages/ecworks.htm

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Yeah and according to John Edwards if Kerry was president people like Christopher Reeves would get up and walk!

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each state get representatives based on the population then whoever wins in that state gets all the electorial college votes unless your from here (maine) or vermont(?) then they split that state into sections and whoever wins in that section gets an electorial vote

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yea and kerry once said if he was president we would never be attacked
noone can assure that

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Why do Bush and Kerry try so hard to make each other look bad?
Isn't it better to bring the political matters to the front? For example, I've seen some bitching about Bush getting help with his replies during the debates. So what? It's not Bush and only Bush that's going to run the country. The same person helping him with his answers is probably going to be involved in ruling the country anyways. These presidential candidates are just "frontmen" anyways, as far as I can see.

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NO that would be blasphemy

how do you confuse a politician??
speak the thruth

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I don't see how anyone who watched ANY of the presidential debates, let alone all three, could vote in 100% confidence for the incumbent...I'd also like to mention that JohnMansley knows more than about 90% of our population over here. It just goes to show how blissfully arrogant so many Americans are.

I believe that if the US (I'm refraining from saying WE as the US i'm talking about was that of 60/65 years ago) entered into Europe out of the kindness of their heart, than the atomic bombs were dropped from flying pigs. Most of this country's blissfully ignorant population has never realized that one of the biggest and most important factors of our entering the war was the wonders of a war-time economy and its effects on a depressed economy. If anyone should be thanked for their contributions to the war it should be the Russians (not neccessarily Stalin...that's a whole other off-topic post). Imagine what would have happened, what Hitler would have had access to, if the German Army had taken Stalingrad and breached the eastern front. People tend to forget that the Russian people forced off the brunt of the Nazi war-machine, without the aid of a western front, back into its own territory leading to the 3rd reich's ultimate demise.

Well, you're absolutely right. I don't think Hitler's invasion of Europe was your business, if you're a peaceful people.

And I do agree about peace. Problem is, you need an execution squad with enough morale to kill itself after it kills everyone else. And I don't think you'll find enough people that could do the job....

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Bush had Osama Trapped in the Hills... instead of sending fucking US Troops to get his ass.. we paid some ragtag afghan warlords to get em... and what do ya know.. they did infact find Osama.. but they showed him a quicker route to Pakistan.

SMART SMART SMART!

Now stop being an idiot. KTHXBYE

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they flew above England and the channel, they flew scramble sorties to intercept german bombers/fighters and V1 missiles. They where pretty succesfull too, the squadron is still active, they fly F16's now. It's still has ties to Britain, here's the commemorative logo: http://www.322squadron60jaar.nl/ima...jaar2kopie2.jpg

The logo they have now is still the same, with the Royal Air Force title...
Polly Grey was their mascotte. the 322'th allways had a Polly through the years, even now they have one lol. it must be the 10th or something because parrots don't like that long.

I think most europeans that had any connection with the war in their family know a lot about it, if you hear the horror-stories first hand, it just doesn't leave you. Plus I live close to the biggest combat line that we had here in Holland, the graveyard on top of the mountain is really, really impressive..

Aaaanyways, back on topic, so they divide the states and who gets the mosts states, wins? but the population counts too? so California is probably an important state to win, right?

They had a hard fight with the krauts and I salute them. I can't think of any army that hasn't turned back when the winter in Russia was in full swing.

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Heres how many votes each state is worth http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/...es/electorl.gif

now the citizens vote means next to nothing... its the Electors that vote.

good old illinois with 22 votes, atleast Kerry gets that.

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They also dropped bunker busters into the caves of Tora Bora. No one can prove that he is alive or dead at the moment. Those rag-tag warlords were sent along with US special forces. Those rag-tag warlords are battle hardened warriors who know the terrain well.

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Ehm, thats allways how it goes with the American elections isn't it? I mean look at 4 years ago, it was riddled with scandals and shit.

what about that video message last week?

his stunt double?

[QUOTE=G_urr_A]First off, I wouldn't vote for one or the other.

How can Bush call Americans "a peaceful people"?
The US has, to the best of my knowledge, been involved in 9 wars (North vs South, WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Kuwait, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq) wars during the last 150 years. Sweden hasn't been in a single war during that time.
QUOTE]

I think they were involved in more conflicts :

Korea-war: 27. june 1950 to 27. july 1953
Suez-crisi: Egypt, 26. july 1956 to 15. november 1956
Operation "Blue Bat": Libanon, 15. july 1958 to 20. october 1958
"Taiwan-street": 23. august 1958 to 1. june 1963
Kongo: 14. july 1960 to 1. september 1962
Operation "Tailwind": Laos, 1970
Operation "Ivory Coast/Kingoin": North-Vietnam, 21. november 1970
Operation "Endweep": North-Vietnam, 27. january 1972 to 27. july 1973
Operation "Linebacker I": North-Vietnam, 10. may 1972 to 23. october 1972
Operation "Linebacker II": North-Vietnam, 18. december 1972 to 29. december 1972
Operation "Pocket Money": North-Vietnam, 9. my 1972 to 23. october 1972
Operation "Freedom Train": North-Vietnam, 6. april 1972 to 10. may 1972
Operation "Arc Light": South-east Asia, 18. june 1965 to april 1970
Operation "Rolling Thunder": South-Vietnam, 24. february 1965 to october 1968
Operation "Ranch Hand": South-Vietnam, january 1962 to january 1971
Kuba-crisis: worldwide, 24. october 1962 to 1. june 1963
Operation "Powerpack": domenican republic (?), 28. april 1965 to 21. september 1966
"6-day-war": Middle east, 13. may 1967 to 10. june 1967
Operation "Nickel Grass": Middle east, 6. october 1973 to 17. november 1973
Operation "Eagle Pull": Kambodia, 11. april 1975 to 13. april 1975
Operation "Freequent Wind": evacuation in South-Vietnam, 26. april 1975
to 30. april 1975
Operation "Mayaguez": Kambodia, 15. may 1975
Operationen "Eagle Claw/Desert One": Iran, 25. april 1980
El Salvador, Nikaragua: 1. january 1981 bis 1. february 1992
Operation "Gulf of Sidra": Libia, 18. august 1981
US-Multinational Force: Libanon, 25. august 1982 to 11. december 1987
Operation "Urgent Fury": Grenada, 23. october 1982 to 21. november 1983
Operation "Attain Document": Libia, 26. january 1986 to 29. march 1986
Operation "El Dorado Canyon": Libia, 12. april 1986 to 17. april 1986
Operation "Blast Furnace": Bolivia, july 1986 to november 1986
Operation "Ernest Will": Gulf of persia, 24. july 1987 to 2. august 1990
Operation "Praying Mantis": Gulf of persia, 17. april 1988 to 19. april 1988
Operation "Just Cause": Panama, 20. december 1989 to 31. january 1990
Operation "Nimrod Dancer": Panama, may 1989 to 20. december 1989
Operation "Promote Liberty": Panama, 31. january 1990
Operation "Ghost Zone": Bolivia, march 1990 to 1993
Operation "Sharp Edge": Liberia, may 1990 to 8. Januar 1991
Operation "Desert Farewell": South-west Asia, 1. january 1992 to 1992
Operation "Desert Calm": "Südwest-Asien, 1. März 1991 bis 1. Januar 1992
Operation "Desert Shield": 2. august 1990 bis 17. Januar 1991
Operation "Desert Storm": Irak, 17. january 1991 to 28. february 1991
Operation "Eastern Exit": Somalia, 2. january 1991 to 11. january 1991
Operation "Productiv Effort/Sea Angel": Bangladesh, may 1991 to june 1991
Operation "Fiery Vigil": Philippines, 1. to 30. june 1991
Operation "Victor Squared": Haiti, 1. to 30. september 1991
Operation "Quick Lift": Zaire, 24. september 1991 to 7. october 1991
Operation "Silver Anvil": Sierra Leone, 2. may 1992 to 5. may 1992
Operation "Distant Runner": Rwanda, 9. april 1994 to 15. april 1994
Operationen "Quiet Resolve"/"Support Hope": Rwanda, 22. july 1994 to 30. september 1994
Operation "Uphold/Restore Democracy": Haiti, 19. september 1994 to 31. März 1995
Operation "United Shield": Somalia, 22. january 1995 to 25. march 1995
Operation "Assured Response": Liberia, april 1996 to august 1996
Operation "Quick Response": Centralafrikan republic, may 1996 to august 1996
Operation "Guardian Assistance": Zaire/Rwanda/Uganda, 15. november 1996 to 27. december 1996
Operation "Pacific Haven/Quick Transit": Irak - Guam, 15. september 1996 to 16. december 1996
Operation "Guardian Retrieval": Kongo, march 1997 to june 1997
Operation "Noble Obelisk": Sierra Leone,may 1997 to june 1997
Operation "Bevel Edge": Kambodia, july 1997
Operation "Noble Response": Kenia, 21. january 1998 to 25. march 1998
Operation "Shepherd Venture": Guinea-Bissau, 10. june 1998 to 17. june 1998
Operation "Infinite Reach": Sudan/Afghanistan, 20. to 30. august 1998
Operation "Golden Pheasant": Honduras, since march 1988
Operation "Safe Border": Peru/Ecuador, since 1995
Operation "Laser Strike": southafrica, since 1. april 1996
Operation "Steady State": southamerica, 1994 to april 1996
Operation "Support Justice": southamerica, 1991 to 1994
Operation "Wipeout": Hawaii, since 1990
Operation "Coronet Oak": central- & southamerica, october 1977 to 17. february 1999
Operation "Coronet Nighthawk": Central- and Southamerica, since 1991
Operation "Desert Falcon": Saudi Arabien, ab 31. März 1991
Operation "Northern Watch": Kurdistan, since 31. december 1996
Operation "Provide Comfort": Kurdistan, 5. april 1991 to december 1994
Operation "Provide Comfort II": Kurdistan, 24. july 1991 to 31. december 1996
Operation "Vigilant Sentine I": Kuwait, since august 1995
Operation "Vigilant Warrior": Kuwait, october 1994 to november 1994
Operation "Desert Focus": Saudi Arabia, since july 1996
Operation "Phoenix Scorpion I": Iraq, since november 1997
Operation "Phoenix Scorpion II": Iraq, since february 1998
Operation "Phoenix Scorpion III": Iraq, since november 1998
Operation "Phoenix Scorpion IV": Iraq, since december 1998
Operation "Desert Strike": Iraq, 3. september 1996; Cruise Missile-strikes: Iraq, 26. june 1993, 17. january 1993, Bombardements: Iraq, 13. january 1993
Operation "Desert Fox": Iraq, 16. december 1998 to 20. december 1998
Operation "Provide Promise": Bosnia, 3. july 1992 to 31. march 1996
Operation "Decisive Enhancement": Adria, 1. december 1995 to 19. june 1996
Operation "Sharp Guard": Adria, 15. june 1993 to december 1995
Operation "Maritime Guard": Adria, 22. november 1992 to 15. june 1993
Operation "Maritime Monitor": Adria, 16. july 1992 to 22. november 1992
Operation "Sky Monitor": Bosnia-Herzegowina, since 16. october 1992
Operation "Deliberate Forke": Bosnia-Herzegowina, since 20. june 1998
Operation "Decisive Edeavor/Decisive Edge": Bosnia-Herzegowina, january 1996 to december 1996
Operation "Deny Flight": Bosnia, 12. april 1993 to 20. december 1995
Operation "Able Sentry": Serbia-Macedonia, ab 5. july 1994
Operation "Nomad Edeavor": Taszar, Hungary, since march 1996
Operation "Nomad Vigil": Albania, 1. july 1995 to 5. november 1996
Operation "Quick Lift": Croatia, july 1995
Operation "Deliberate Force": Republika Srpska, 29. august 1995 to 21. september 1995
Operation "Joint Forge": since 20. june 1998
Operation "Joint Guard": Bosnia-Herzegowina, 20. june 1998
Operation "Joint Edeavor": Bosnia-Herzegowina, december 1995 to december 1996
Operation "Determined Effort": Bosnia, july 1995 to december 1995
Operation "Determined Falcon": Kosovo/Albania, 15. june 1998 to 16. june 1998
Operation "Eagle Eye": Kosovo, 16. october 1998 to 24. march 1999
Operation "Sustain Hope/Allied Harbour": Kosovo, since 5. april 1999
Operation "Shining Hope": Kosovo, since 5. april 1999
Operation "Cobalt Flash": Kosovo, since 23. march 1999
Operation "Determined Force": Kosovo, 8. october 1998 to 23. march 1999

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Apparently you havent heard of the video that was released just a few days ago. Osama speaks of fairly recent events and i have yet to read that it is a fake.

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yes but you gotta remember that if they even started to run back they were shot on site by their comanders

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holy shit.

Yeah, that's what I'm after. IMO, it's just silly to refer to US presidential candidates as politicians.

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Could be. You can do amazing things with video with the technology we have these days. Just ask Kerry and Speilberg. He also could have made that months ago. Al-Jazeera will not release information on how they got that tape and every tape before.

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Im aware that the Russians did that to people who didnt want to fight. I was talking about a major decision to cancel an invasion of Russia due to winter.

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And the situation was of course not at all like that for the US soldiers, who were fighting purely because they believed in the idea of a Free Europe.

Oh, and I'm going to go to bed soon, so don't expect any more replies from me within 8hrs.

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Nah, the context was to exact, I don't think it could have been made months before. But it could be a double.

Anyways, I don't believe he's dead.

No retreat, you run a step backward and your gunned down by a friendly mg42. Also Russia had more than 50% of the troops used in the ENTIRE WWII... so with all he troops combined, including Nazi's and Allied.. everyone. More than 50% of those troops belonged to Russia. Plus Stalin was a tactical genius.

If Hitler hadn't of broken the treaty he made with Stalin then he most likely would have accomplished his goal.

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no it wasnt i have one never heard of any such orders giving to the US officers

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me neither, it was just desertion and off to the MP's.

demon, I posted more info about the squadron a page back if you're interested. I found the logo they use now. It's still Polly Grey!

I'm not yet responding to that post, because I can't make out what it's supposed to mean. If you want a reply, please restate your message more clearly.

[NOT MEANT AS AN ATTACK OR ATTEMPT TO RIDICULE MR. CAT AVATAR GUY]

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he meant US officers never shot their own guys for not fighting

and australians. although, the ex-alcoholism doesnt bug me. look at hussein, he was a drug addict and look at all the pain and suffering he caused the iraqis (and the rest of the world.) he was supposedly high on cocaine when iraq invaded kuwait.

bush being an ex-alcoholic, i dont think he would invade canada to steal their maple syrup, or mexico to steal....er...that, stuff kinda things that mexico has....

yep

thanks for adding more stuff to you previouse post def
i like learning about history especially military history cause i come a huge military family. i wish i knew about my greatgrandfather in WWII but hes dead and when he got home he threw all his stuff away, so did my grandfather after nam

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Corona's

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Ah, something we can agree on.

Cheers! (it's heineken at the moment, but corona's are the only good thing to come outta mexico along with taco's.)

your welcome, don't hestitate to ask questions if there's anything you'de like to know that I might know about the war. I know loads about the dutch underground resistance, my other granddad was deported in 1945 and he was part of it, he fought in the dutch army at the grebbelinie and after that in the resistance. My family has nothing with the army what so ever at this moment, only my cousin is in the marines as a red baret.
I can see why people would like to forget about wars though, especially with Nam, must have been pretty damn horrible. Did you know American WOII vets still visit Arnhem and Wageningen (grebbelinie) every year at the liberation day? Hell, last year there where a bunch of them jumping from WOII planes! at their age! how cool is that! Those vets live like kings for the week they're here! people are still really passionate about the war, which isn't too hard to understand... For kids nowadays it's 'history' but for me its still important because of the ties I have with that war.

Wars have always fascinated me, especially WWII. The more you know, the less likely you'll repeat the mistake previously made.

I suggest Bush goto a REAL college, without his daddy's money and take a few history classes.

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i didnt know there was a dutch resistance! what did they acomplish?

haha here we have green barrets
almost all my cusins are in it and all my uncles were at one point my dad grandfather some aunts...others

yea to many its just another lecture but it really fasinates me history was my best class in highschool

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I agree, I just wish the world had learned a lesson after WWII. after the EU and NATO/UN formed there hasn't been a major european conflict except for the bosnia crisis. IMO thats just a place where you should stick your nose in because it's allways war over there. It's all settled down there now, which is good.

Osama allways tries to place the blame on America for supporting Israel. It's weird, but I kinda get his point, America funs Israel and Israel shoots palestinians with american Apache's and Abrahams tanks. Palestinians have no way to fight back but blowing themselves up, it's like a vicious circle. IMO, America should not help Israel that much anymore, they can handle their own plus it might get Osama of their backs. Ofcourse, Osama placing the blame on the US is rediculous but you can see what he means. Arafat is an ass though, so it doesnt matter much, it's allways going to be a shitty neighbourhood around Israel.

I ask myself why they don't change this election-system.
So, if you get just one vote more in one state, you'll get all of its "election-guys". That's pure stupidity!!!!

Why do you have to register for election!?!?!
And why they have so many problems with registrations?
I read an article, that says, that many students have problems to register because you need a "solid home adress". In my eyes this "law" denies the right to vote!

And i hate this "publicity-election" (It's getting more and more popular in germany as well.). You have to elect a president for his "ideas" for a better country and not for better TV-appearance.

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we had the dutch underground from 1940 till the end of the war, they helped the Allied with detailed maps of whole of holland with all german ammo dumps, suplly lines, training camps, etc. They also hid all the jewish people they could, if those jews where discovered the Germans killed the whole family in the house that hid them... They did the same for crashed allied pilots and they beaconed targets for the RAF.
During the war they blew up german trains, bases, you name it. They also played an important role during the battle of Nijmegen bij flanking the germans with their own tanks while the germans where concerned about the allied closing in from the south

we have green barets here too, red barets are higher, they're like the special forces or SAS. my cousin goes on ice trainings in norway and does jungle trainings and shit too, he's allready been in Iraq too in camp Smitty.

BUT KERRY HAS A BIG CHIN AND A FAKE TAN!!! HE ISENT WORTHY TO BE PRESIDENT!

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im sure not! i think kerry is good for two reasons:improved foreign relations and abortion/stem cell reserach. i already feel like an idiot when i say im an american on any messageboard, theres so much anti american sentiment now its insane

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My vote goes for Kerry. seems a tad wiser than bush.

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I couldnt agree with you more Def. Israel needs to be cut loose from our support. As far as Bin Laden I wouldnt do it to get him off our backs. The fucker still needs to die.

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If you dont register then you could vote as many times as you wanted. that leads to voter fraud.

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The Vikings came here, got scared off by the Indians, and left, never to return or to establish any kind of route here. That's effectively useless. If you want to object to Columbus, you can always complain about how it's not really a discovery if there's a civilization already living there. But, once we accept that it's still a discovery if people are already there, then his discovery is infinitely more significant than Leif Erikson's (or the other guy whose name escapes me) because, even if he wasn't the first, his 'discovery' precipitated Europe's involvement in this hemisphere, which leads directly to things like the American colonies. And, it's only then that the descendents of the Vikings find their way back over here. Even had they wanted to go back, right at that moment was a bad time to be a Viking; the cultures they had traditionally dominated were beating them back, they'd suffered a major defeat at the hand of Byzantines, and they were Christianizing. In a word, they were disappearing.

All right, World War II: Though we would have never been involved had Hitler not declared war on us (an extremely out of character move, as it required that he both respect a treaty and declare war before invading), there's enough evidence to indicate that FDR really, really wanted to get involved in Europe. It's hard to keep up the pretence of 'neutrality' - politically necessary at the time both because of the American population's feeling of isolationism and because the population itself was divided over the war, with those of English and French descent rooting for the Allies and those of German descent, in some cases, feeling pride in Germany's accomplishment - when you're exclusively supplying one side at bargain basement discounts and sinking U-boats in the Atlantic. There's even a school of thought believing Roosevelt knew about the Pearl Harbor attack and did nothing to prevent it so as to have an excuse to throw himself into the war in Europe (recall that it took the Lusitania and the Zimmerman telegram to get us involved in the first World War). But, even if that's the case, that's just Roosevelt and not the U.S. as a whole, who did enter because Hitler pretty much asked us to, even if he didn't realize it.

All that said, I'm sick of hearing other Americans hold this 'we saved your ass in WWII!' claim over Europeans' heads. England's and Free France's almost absurd levels of perseverence kept the Western Front open and stopped Hitler from controlling pretty much all of Europe, which would have made the remainder of the war pretty different. Russia survived and repelled the vast majority of German ground forces, then went back and took Berlin. American involvement definitely went a great deal toward helping Europe turn back the nazis, but it is just help. Europe didn't all go Vichy and need the big, burly American men to come in and run these damn nazis out of their kitchens; they were already pushing them out. But we did a kickass job of it. Go us.

All of that was irrelevant. How is it that, whenever a European shows any interest in who's the leader of the world's premier superpower, it turns into a discussion about World War II? Did anybody see the Guardian's letter-writing campaign to Ohio? We're really angry about foreigners showing an interest. That's mildly disturbing. Though, at the same time, if an American was telling you how to vote, you'd probably be pissed at our presumptuous imperialism, so I suppose it's a two-way street.

I'd probably vote Kerry if I were registered. If World War II hadn't been brought up, I would have just posted that.

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Americans really need to learn from the Europeans on the right way to make beer. Im Anti American Beer!

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Hey, as long as it gets the job done (i.e. -> -> ).

After drinking 6 of each...I conclude that Corona is better than Heineken (heinie used to be my favorite)

But lately its been cheap 30 packs of Keystone made here in good ole' Colorado.

Oh and I vote for Bush because Kerry will get us all killed.

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I was the same way untill I was spoiled buy German and Czech beer. Speaking of beer and elections; there was a poll asking who would you favor having a beer with? Bush or Kerry? Would Bush drink Busch? Not sure of the spelling.

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Sure he will.

American beer takes more than its fair share of abuse. I'm not defending brands like Budweiser, Miller, Pabst, Old Style, Old Milwaukee, Keystone, Icehouse, Coors, or any other big name who's decided that taste is not a major factor in marketing, but American microbreweries oftentimes put out at least Canadian-quality beer. Unfortunately, these are expensive, highly variable, and aren't often exported, or even shipped around, so nobody knows this. European beer is still, in many cases, better, though people who are raised on the microbreweries in states like Oregon, Colorado, and Maine would contest this.

In North America, Mexico makes the best beer. Over a hundred years ago, Mexico was a fairly powerful, rich country, or at least a country filled with powerful and rich people, and at the time beermeisters from Germany were brought in to brew Mexican beer. This fact's reflected in brand names such as 'Bohemia,' and in the fact that a good Mexican beer is better than both American and Canadian.

Neither candidate will improve the quality of our beer, however.

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Neither candidate is fit for president. Bush is a religious nut who (literally) gets all of his advice from god.

Kerry seems week on some issues, but poses less of a risk IMO. Fuck Bush, fuck you.

And fuck you, I'm not back.

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I'm voting for Kerry since Bush's advisor is a preacher.

Oh by the way, the only reason I'm posting here is because I thought the title said "Erections!"

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